32 Machine Guns, Glock Handguns And Assault Rifles Stolen From Toronto Collector Are Still On The Streets.
J. Swindon
Collector lost $40,000 in firearms
Jan. 7, 2006. 10:23 AM Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/7z85d
BETSY POWELL, DALE BRAZAO AND JOHN DUNCANSON
TORONTO STAR STAFF REPORTERS
ORLANDO, FLA.-Dozens of high-powered weapons that have flooded Toronto
streets were stolen from a well-known gun collector and firearms instructor
who kept his dangerous stash in a subsidized housing apartment in
Scarborough.
One of the guns taken from the apartment was used last September in one of
the worst bloodbaths in the history of Toronto - a triple murder near the
end of the Summer of the Gun, in a year marked by the worst gun violence the
city has seen. Today, the collector, Mike Hargreaves, is a fugitive from
Canadian justice, living in a modest, two-storey stucco home a few
kilometres from Disney World. Many of the 32 to 35 guns stolen from his
Toronto apartment (machine guns, Glock handguns and assault rifles) are
still on the streets.
Though he once had many friends on the Toronto police force (Hargreaves was
the man who successfully lobbied the force during the early 1990s to adopt
the Glock semi-automatic handgun as its standard issue), that same force has
a warrant out for his arrest, alleging his arsenal was improperly stored.
Hargreaves' stolen cache raises serious issues around the screening of gun
collectors, and the licensing and storage of guns in Canada. The federal
government gave him a storage license to keep weapons in a housing complex
in an area known for gang activity.
Police estimate about half the guns used in crime in Toronto are legally
owned guns stolen in break-ins.
Just this week, police recovered three stolen weapons in two separate
arrests: two firearms stolen during a break-and-enter in Caledon and a rifle
stolen from a home in Hamilton.
Every year, as many as 3,000 firearms are reported stolen in Canada.
"I'm shattered to know that my guns are out there being used by people with
no training and no morals," says the 70-year-old who says he was
instrumental in Toronto police and many other forces switching from the
traditional .38-calibre revolver to the Glock.
In an interview at his home, Hargreaves says he has no plans to return to
face the charges. He says his guns were properly stored in a steel
reinforced vault. Hargreaves, who casts himself as a victim, says it is
common for the Toronto Police to charge a person who has been victimized.
Hargreaves believes Toronto police are making him a scapegoat because "they
can't catch the bad guys."
Top officials at the Toronto Police Service, like Chief Bill Blair, said
they would not comment on the Hargreaves case because charges are pending.
In addition to his work as a lobbyist Hargreaves' curriculum vitae says he
is a licensed, professional firearms and tactics instructor and lists as
clients the Toronto Police Service, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ontario
Provincial Police along with York, Halton, London and Windsor police forces.
Hargreaves, a one-time bouncer from Liverpool, England, has worked with guns
most of his adult life. He collects them, teaches police officers and
armoured car personnel how to use them and is a founding member of the
Ontario branch of the International Practical Shooting Confederation.
A decade ago, Hargreaves rented unit 1707 at 31 Gilder Dr. - a massive
apartment complex run by the Toronto Community Housing Corp. To qualify for
an apartment, a person typically has a very low - or no - income (often the
person is on welfare). Hargreaves, whose gun consulting office was in
Mississauga, used the Gilder Dr. apartment as his "storage facility."
Every gun was registered, he says, and properly stored. He had all the
proper licences and police inspected the apartment, armed with a
motion-detector alarm, annually.
"I had a permit to purchase submachine guns, rifles and shotguns," the burly
grandfather of four says matter-of-factly. "All the guns in there were
training guns. There was nothing for sale, they were training guns and
personal firearms."
Hargreaves says his income was low enough to qualify for assisted housing.
Mike Hargreaves, gun collector and firearms instructor
To store his arsenal, Hargreaves brought in a monstrous safe. It was so
heavy, movers had to take off the 500-pound door so the elevator could carry
it to the 17th floor. By Christmas 2003, Hargreaves had $40,000 worth of
guns locked in the safe. He said he had a permit issued by federal firearms
officials and the permit was displayed beside the safe.
Hargreaves says housing officials were unaware that he was storing firearms
near families with children.
The daring high-rise burglary worthy of a movie script happened around New
Year's, 2004. Hargreaves was in Florida at the time, where his son runs a
security company.
The Gilder apartment building is at Midland Ave. and Eglinton Ave. E. - not
far from where a gang turf war raged.
Hargreaves believes the thieves lowered themselves from an 18th-floor
balcony, pried loose a wire mesh designed to keep out pigeons and entered
through the sliding balcony door. Police are less convinced and think they
came through the front door.
Working for two days, thieves used sledgehammers and blowtorches to blast
open the 1,700-pound, concrete-and-steel Brinks safe. They made off with
about 35 guns, including military assault rifles, machine guns, and
semi-automatic pistols, a bullet pressing machine and dozens of rounds of
ammunition.
The most dramatic, known use of the stolen guns was on Sept. 16 last year. A
gun battle involving one of the stolen 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistols left
three men dead in and around a BMW parked behind an Etobicoke building at 75
Tandridge Cres. Joseph Santos, 25, Donald Rawluck, 24, and Shane James, 26,
were killed. A fourth man - Michael Matthew Scott - was charged with
second-degree murder.
Det. Sgt. Terry Wark, one of the homicide investigators on the case,
confirmed the Glock came from the break-in. Investigators say the shooting
started after a dispute over a gun sale.
Police say they have now recovered about 15 of the guns since the New Year's
break-in two years ago and that their investigations show the "Gilder guns"
were also used in a downtown robbery and a road-rage incident, according to
41 Division Det. Const. Tom Imrie, who led the probe into the break-in.
After the break-in, police issued a warrant for Hargreaves' arrest, claiming
the firearms were unsafely stored and improperly imported. The charge
against him is not extraditable, so police have to wait for him to cross the
border. He says former deputy police chief Peter Scott, a friend, has
encouraged him to come home.
"I hate criminals with a passion. I've taught people to fight them all my
life," he says.
The break-in and loss of "40 years of firearms" left him "clinically
depressed." He received $20,000 from insurance - half the value of the guns.
Hargreaves, who seems to have a wireless earpiece for his cellphone
permanently in his ear despite being "retired," takes reporters upstairs to
an office and his wall of plaques and ribbons attesting to his 23 years as a
gun instructor and his prowess as a shooter.
The centrepiece of this collection is a framed poster of the Toronto
police's Emergency Task Force in action, signed by Peter Scott and several
other officers.
He defiantly refuses to accept responsibility for the Gilder Dr. break-in.
"If somebody stole a bus and ran over 12 kids, the bus wouldn't be at fault.
If somebody stole 50 pounds of dynamite and blew up a house, the dynamite
wouldn't be at fault. But the minute it's firearms, it's `oh my God, it's
firearms.'"
While investigators were stunned to learn that kind of firepower had been
stored in a subsidized apartment in an area rife with gang violence,
Hargreaves says he followed the law.
`I've had a love affair with guns since I was a child. My dad said I'd grow
out of it, but he was wrong.'
"There's no rule that you have to be there every minute, you don't have to
live there, you don't have to sleep there, you have to have a licence on the
wall," Hargreaves says.
While the doubling of gun-related homicides last year focused attention on
the smuggling of guns from the United States, the Liberals' proposed ban on
handguns has ignited debate whether a total ban on handguns would have any
effect.
Several months after the spectacular gun heist, police arrested alleged gang
leader Phillip Atkins, 22, and charged him with the break and enter at the
subsidized housing unit.
Atkins is currently facing two counts of first-degree murder and four counts
of attempted murder in connection with a spate of shootings of innocent
people in Scarborough, all within weeks of the break-in.
Where have the other guns gone? There are suspicions they have been used in
a number of shootings.
Although Atkins has been charged in connection with the Gilder break in,
police have not linked any of the guns taken from there with any of the
shootings he is alleged to have committed.
Atkins and co-accused Tyshan Riley, 23, are charged with the Jan. 25 slaying
of Omar Hortley, 21, gunned down while walking to friend's house to watch TV
in Malvern, a community in northeast Scarborough.
On March 3, 2004, gunmen opened fire on Brenton "Junior" Charlton, 31, and
Leonard Bell, 45, who were stopped at an intersection over the dinner hour
at Finch Ave. and Neilson Rd.
Charlton died, but Bell survived. Atkins and Riley are charged with
first-degree murder and attempted murder in that case, in addition to his
other attempted murder charges.
Christopher Reid, 26, was convicted of the break-in and weapons charges
after he was nabbed carrying a Beretta stolen from the apartment. He was
sentenced to four years and three months in prison. Hargreaves, who has
testified at a number of murder trials as a gun expert for the defence, said
he is saddened by all the gun violence in Toronto.
But knowing police have a warrant for his arrest he is not making any plans
to return to Toronto any time soon. He said Scott, his good friend, has
urged him to return to Toronto to deal with the charges, but he has
declined. Hargreaves says he has applied for a U.S. green card and if he
leaves he believes he will be "deemed to have abandoned my application."
"He knows the warrant's out there. I don't suspect he'll be coming back
anytime soon unless anything forces him," says homicide Det. Stacy Gallant,
formerly of the gun and gang task force who swore out a warrant for
Hargreaves' arrest.
Instead of returning to Toronto, he relied instead on a "former senior
police officer" and his business partner to clean up the mess in his trashed
apartment. After 30 years of living in Canada, he plans to make Florida his
home. His son Michael lives nearby and runs a security company. Hargreaves
and his wife bought their house for $199,000 US in October 2004. He no
longer has the subsidized housing unit on Gilder.
In addition to helping police forces, Hargreaves' resume shows that he has
testified as an expert witness on behalf of the defence in Toronto court
cases numerous times. He suspects that is one reason the police have charged
him - they don't like that he used his knowledge of guns for people charged
with gun-related offences.
"I've never been charged with a criminal offence in any country I've lived
in, Britain, Germany, Australia, Canada, `til this," said Hargreaves who
says he has been stabbed twice, and shot once in the hand by an errant
bullet on the firing range.
"I think I had two speeding tickets in 30 years."
While the incident in Canada has left a bad taste, Hargreaves remains
unabashed about his passion.
"I've had a love affair with guns since I was a child," said Hargreaves. "My
dad said I'd grow out of it, but he was wrong."
Detector
Guns, Guns, and More Guns
One of the most inspiring aspects of history is the way ordinary human
beings are able to overcome and defeat evil... whether that evil is in the
form of individuals, groups, or regimes. We have seen it over and over
again, and even participated in such defeats. We have faith in it... it is
the one hope we cling to should we ever need to do the same thing again. And
we know we will have to again... and yet again. History has proven that it
is inevitable so long as mortals are--well, mortal.
Until recent history, the ability to overthrow wicked leaders has been an
even proposition; that is, the farmer fighting could reasonably expect to
have the same weapons that the army they were trying to defeat had: shields,
spears, arrows, clubs, slingshots, horses, etc. What they didn't have they
could make. So it was with both sides--an army supporting a wicked regime
could go up against its own countrymen and expect them to be fairly equally
equipped. This meant that the final deciding factor in battle was the
determination of those fighting. It could go either way.
Then entered the gun. Wicked governments instantly recognized the potential
for a massive power shift. If they legislated it so that only THEY could
possess guns, it would end the ability of the average man to stop them from
any of their designs--wicked and otherwise--thus ensuring their total and
complete reign. No matter how committed the people were, there was simply no
way they could expect to defeat a system armed with guns when all they had
were spears and shields. Wicked governments know that people don't like
them, and WILL fight them. Denying them the right to guns insured leaders of
their brutal and iron grip, and the people with no choice but to accept it.
So it was that most nations cracked down on gun ownership, until the birth
of the promised land: America. It was exactly because the Founding Fathers
had seen this gun-fueled potential for oppression and tyranny that they
mandated the right to keep and bear arms for all citizens. They even went so
far as to command that all states should maintain a "well-armed militia," an
obvious nod to the fact that not even America was above the evil lust for
absolute power that had plagued mankind since he left the garden. Freedom
must be constantly defended, and guns are a necessity in that defense.
Freedoms only remain secure when an armed watchdog sees to it. Our FFs knew
how easy it would be for a centralized government to become too large and
crooked, and that millions of armed citizens were the best way to keep them
in line. This particular amendment was their way of guarding against a
future fraudulent government being able to survive versus the will of the
people. If both sides have the same weapons, leadership tends to listen a
bit more closely, and obey the desires of the true government: the people.
Take away those guns, and why should they give a damn? Choose to do it,
forced to do it--it's all good to a corrupt leader.
I have oft heard the argument by feminists and the Hippy Press--MSM--that if
an oppressed people want to get rid of their government badly enough they
will find a way, as if this justifies them downplaying or outright ignoring
that which they are "foresworn" to cover. They point to history, where the
common man was capable of rising up to uncommon acts of courage. But they
choose to ignore what I have pointed out here; these figures were able to do
it because the power of the weapons on both sides was equal. They also
choose to ignore recent instances, such as Tiananmen Square. Were there any
others on earth more determined and desperate to create a free republic than
those magnificent young people? They found out what our FFs knew hundreds of
years ago: rocks don't work against guns, no matter how passionately they
are thrown. The disparity between what the freedom fighters had and the
communist regime had was barefaced. They never stood a chance, and more than
this generation died--the potential for freedom in the largest communist
nation on earth died. They could not defend it with hope--they needed
weapons.
For the want of a gun, a nation was lost. We can only wonder now about what
might have been had these zealous advocates for a free society been on an
even keel with their wretched oppressors.
Now we have the most evil nation on earth--North Korea--that for the first
time is showing signs of people who are not buying the communist lie
anymore. The brutality of Stalin lives on there, and in spite of their runt
of a leader's fervent desire to suppress information about the real world,
the peasants are finding out anyway, and they want it. They want their lives
back, their freedoms, and their families. They know that in spite of the
heavy propaganda that has been force fed to them, the world beyond their
borders is far more desirable than the gulags within. They grow weary of
forced three generation imprisonment, public executions, slave labor and
torture, and a fat, vile little leader who lives in decadent opulence while
the people starve. Pictures of "Great Leader" Kim Il Sung and his bastard
puppy "Dear Leader" Kim Jong Il are being torn down--a capitol offense in
that hole of a nation. These valiant warriors are risking persecution and
fatality to sneak out film of the suffering of the people. (Isn't it
interesting the way the Hippy Press ignores these horrors but cries over the
death of a tree? These were the same who pretended that Pol Pot wasn't a
monster to justify what they were lying about--Vietnam.)
Once again we have an Asian nation crying out for help in defeating an
undeniable malevolence. They have the passion, the desire, and the
manpower... they only need the wherewithal. They are willing to fight for
themselves. We need to help them.
So here's what I recommend. To save North Korea we need only do one thing:
airlift a butt load of guns over there and drop them on the farms and
countryside. Just saturate that desolate nation with weapons and ammunition
so they can do what needs to be done: overthrow Kim Jong Il. Some may fall
into the wrong hands, sure, but if we drop enough, most will go to the
freedom fighters. We should have done it with China. We should have done it
with Vietnam. We should have done it with the USSR. There were people who
would have fought--such as the Montagnards--and we failed them. North Korea
is not asking for American sons to purchase their freedom--they're ready,
willing, and able to do it for themselves. Just like the Chinese youth, they
want to fight for their land.
The Hippy Press would have you believe that communism ain't so bad. That is
because they are the commies' biggest tool. They will never ever ever tell
us the truth about North Korea, because deep down they support that fiendish
nation. They want Kim to succeed, for communism to spread like the disease
it is to our own nation. And the only real obstacle in the path of their
repugnant dream isn't the will of the people, but the ability of said people
to enforce their will. It is the gun that stands in their way, and the
people who will NEVER surrender them, and we should be on our knees thanking
God for that.
I hope the people of North Korea destroy their putrid government. I hope
they kill Kim Jong Il. I hope they take back their nation and elevate it to
where it belongs. And I hope we have the balls to help them do so. Just for
fun, I'm going to set up a spot on my site for people to donate money to arm
the people of North Korea. I want to see how many of us still believe in the
revolutionary principles that first shook this world more than two centuries
ago. If it is significant enough, I will get in touch with some of my
friends in Japan and Korea to see what can be done, because to I want them
to win. I want to see it work for them as well as it worked for us once upon
a time. I want that sense of hope back that our Forefathers first gave us,
and that the hippy-controlled Politically Castrated losers taking over
America would give anything to forget. We aren't going to get the truth from
the MSM, but it's OK--in spite of their best efforts, we know it anyway.
I want to free North Korea. The lucky part of that desire is that now, they
want it too. If they lose, it should NEVER be because they don't have the
weapons. God speed their souls and quicken their trigger fingers. With the
right help, they can indeed win this thing.
Keep the faith, bros, and in all things courage.
Spokesman
"J. Swindon" <jswi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d8loF...@individual.net...
> Thieves took two days to break open a safe to steal at least 32 guns
> Collector lost $40,000 in firearms
>
> Jan. 7, 2006. 10:23 AM Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/7z85d
> BETSY POWELL, DALE BRAZAO AND JOHN DUNCANSON
> TORONTO STAR STAFF REPORTERS
The only person who should be arrested are the scum who stole the
guns. Guns by themselves are inherently safe. What is very dangerous is
the minority gangs who steal them and use them to kill rival gang
members.
Non-Canadians should be deported for even the smallest crime
as we don't need more criminals in Canada.
rlac...@inter.com
|>Thieves took two days to break open a safe to steal at least 32 guns
|>Collector lost $40,000 in firearms
|>
|>Jan. 7, 2006. 10:23 AM Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/7z85d
|>BETSY POWELL, DALE BRAZAO AND JOHN DUNCANSON
|>TORONTO STAR STAFF REPORTERS
|>
|>ORLANDO, FLA.-Dozens of high-powered weapons that have flooded Toronto
|>streets were stolen from a well-known gun collector and firearms instructor
|>who kept his dangerous stash in a subsidized housing apartment in
|>Scarborough.
Unlike me, Hargreaves was as stealthy as could be on his private
possessions, and habit....
|>
|>One of the guns taken from the apartment was used last September in one of
|>the worst bloodbaths in the history of Toronto - a triple murder near the
|>end of the Summer of the Gun, in a year marked by the worst gun violence the
|>city has seen. Today, the collector, Mike Hargreaves, is a fugitive from
|>Canadian justice, living in a modest, two-storey stucco home a few
|>kilometres from Disney World. Many of the 32 to 35 guns stolen from his
|>Toronto apartment (machine guns, Glock handguns and assault rifles) are
|>still on the streets.
Are they really on the streets? Who knows this, how do they know this,
or are they safely stored for now in some popular place.
|>
|>Though he once had many friends on the Toronto police force (Hargreaves was
|>the man who successfully lobbied the force during the early 1990s to adopt
|>the Glock semi-automatic handgun as its standard issue), that same force has
|>a warrant out for his arrest, alleging his arsenal was improperly stored.
They aren't pursuing him too dearly for a reason only they know,
otherwise there would be an WMD related affiliated charge.
|>
|>Hargreaves' stolen cache raises serious issues around the screening of gun
|>collectors, and the licensing and storage of guns in Canada. The federal
|>government gave him a storage license to keep weapons in a housing complex
|>in an area known for gang activity.
Screening of a gun collector is a more in depth analysis than being any
kind of a Cop...Ask MeHow I Know..
|>
|>Police estimate about half the guns used in crime in Toronto are legally
|>owned guns stolen in break-ins.
Hundreds of these in Toronto are stolen from the police themselves
through obvious ways...
|>
|>Just this week, police recovered three stolen weapons in two separate
|>arrests: two firearms stolen during a break-and-enter in Caledon and a rifle
|>stolen from a home in Hamilton.
Love that word 'Weapon' kind'a makes you feel that your parked car will
drive you all over town, and park itself for you.....
|>
|>Every year, as many as 3,000 firearms are reported stolen in Canada.
|>
|>"I'm shattered to know that my guns are out there being used by people with
|>no training and no morals," says the 70-year-old who says he was
|>instrumental in Toronto police and many other forces switching from the
|>traditional .38-calibre revolver to the Glock.
|>
|>In an interview at his home, Hargreaves says he has no plans to return to
|>face the charges. He says his guns were properly stored in a steel
|>reinforced vault. Hargreaves, who casts himself as a victim, says it is
|>common for the Toronto Police to charge a person who has been victimized.
|>Hargreaves believes Toronto police are making him a scapegoat because "they
|>can't catch the bad guys."
Maybe he can make a plea bargain for the other 2000 crimes the police
can't handle yet, that is sure unreal of any judicial system.
|>
|>Top officials at the Toronto Police Service, like Chief Bill Blair, said
|>they would not comment on the Hargreaves case because charges are pending.
|>
|>In addition to his work as a lobbyist Hargreaves' curriculum vitae says he
|>is a licensed, professional firearms and tactics instructor and lists as
|>clients the Toronto Police Service, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ontario
|>Provincial Police along with York, Halton, London and Windsor police forces.
|>
|>Hargreaves, a one-time bouncer from Liverpool, England, has worked with guns
|>most of his adult life. He collects them, teaches police officers and
|>armoured car personnel how to use them and is a founding member of the
|>Ontario branch of the International Practical Shooting Confederation.
He was a contributor to the $6 billion a year income of Canada, which is
being thrown away by Lieberals.
|>
|>A decade ago, Hargreaves rented unit 1707 at 31 Gilder Dr. - a massive
|>apartment complex run by the Toronto Community Housing Corp. To qualify for
|>an apartment, a person typically has a very low - or no - income (often the
|>person is on welfare). Hargreaves, whose gun consulting office was in
|>Mississauga, used the Gilder Dr. apartment as his "storage facility."
The Lieberals put his CFIinstructor trade out the door for a new Canada
called the 'Eco and Crocket Society'
|>
|>Every gun was registered, he says, and properly stored. He had all the
|>proper licences and police inspected the apartment, armed with a
|>motion-detector alarm, annually.
|>
|>"I had a permit to purchase submachine guns, rifles and shotguns," the burly
|>grandfather of four says matter-of-factly. "All the guns in there were
|>training guns. There was nothing for sale, they were training guns and
|>personal firearms."
|>
|>Hargreaves says his income was low enough to qualify for assisted housing.
He had more permits and qualifications than the Police, and that
probably made some jealous..since a 12(2) 12(5) and 12(6) is above the police
and as a whole above the Military.....
I call it a cover up or a coincidence issue, or what are these guys
worth to Society anyway..........
|>
|>Det. Sgt. Terry Wark, one of the homicide investigators on the case,
|>confirmed the Glock came from the break-in. Investigators say the shooting
|>started after a dispute over a gun sale.
|>
|>Police say they have now recovered about 15 of the guns since the New Year's
|>break-in two years ago and that their investigations show the "Gilder guns"
|>were also used in a downtown robbery and a road-rage incident, according to
|>41 Division Det. Const. Tom Imrie, who led the probe into the break-in.
For a group less qualified than the Hells Angels for Street work, they
sure do work quick on this one heh.....Oh they got snitches that are members of
the Police force, so what does that make these guys, police officers...can't
dispute that.
|>
|>After the break-in, police issued a warrant for Hargreaves' arrest, claiming
|>the firearms were unsafely stored and improperly imported. The charge
|>against him is not extraditable, so police have to wait for him to cross the
|>border. He says former deputy police chief Peter Scott, a friend, has
|>encouraged him to come home.
|>
|>"I hate criminals with a passion. I've taught people to fight them all my
|>life," he says.
|>
|>The break-in and loss of "40 years of firearms" left him "clinically
|>depressed." He received $20,000 from insurance - half the value of the guns.
|>
|>Hargreaves, who seems to have a wireless earpiece for his cellphone
|>permanently in his ear despite being "retired," takes reporters upstairs to
|>an office and his wall of plaques and ribbons attesting to his 23 years as a
|>gun instructor and his prowess as a shooter.
|>
|>The centrepiece of this collection is a framed poster of the Toronto
|>police's Emergency Task Force in action, signed by Peter Scott and several
|>other officers.
|>
|>He defiantly refuses to accept responsibility for the Gilder Dr. break-in.
What can you do, remember, the Military don't register or Report their
loses to anybody in Canada.....You wouldn't believe their track record on that
either, but they aren't really concerned with anything less that, a $25,000.00
H&K MP5 9mm machine gun...that you paid for.
|>
|>"If somebody stole a bus and ran over 12 kids, the bus wouldn't be at fault.
|>If somebody stole 50 pounds of dynamite and blew up a house, the dynamite
|>wouldn't be at fault. But the minute it's firearms, it's `oh my God, it's
|>firearms.'"
|>
|>While investigators were stunned to learn that kind of firepower had been
|>stored in a subsidized apartment in an area rife with gang violence,
|>Hargreaves says he followed the law.
The Street Gangs knew nothing, anymore than his next door neighbors, his
social police friends knew something.........
|>
|>`I've had a love affair with guns since I was a child. My dad said I'd grow
|>out of it, but he was wrong.'
|>
|>
|>"There's no rule that you have to be there every minute, you don't have to
|>live there, you don't have to sleep there, you have to have a licence on the
|>wall," Hargreaves says.
That reminds me of about 10,000 cottage break-ins all over, except for
the Fort Knox Safe....
|>
|>While the doubling of gun-related homicides last year focused attention on
|>the smuggling of guns from the United States, the Liberals' proposed ban on
|>handguns has ignited debate whether a total ban on handguns would have any
|>effect.
|>
|>Several months after the spectacular gun heist, police arrested alleged gang
|>leader Phillip Atkins, 22, and charged him with the break and enter at the
|>subsidized housing unit.
Sounds like a plea bargain, but knows just yet, it be a plant, or even
Glory Be, the real McCoy?
------------------Atkins Homicide Details Snipped-------------------
|>But knowing police have a warrant for his arrest he is not making any plans
|>to return to Toronto any time soon. He said Scott, his good friend, has
|>urged him to return to Toronto to deal with the charges, but he has
|>declined. Hargreaves says he has applied for a U.S. green card and if he
|>leaves he believes he will be "deemed to have abandoned my application."
|>
|>"He knows the warrant's out there. I don't suspect he'll be coming back
|>anytime soon unless anything forces him," says homicide Det. Stacy Gallant,
|>formerly of the gun and gang task force who swore out a warrant for
|>Hargreaves' arrest.
Who want's to be another victim like P. Kearns, or the Current B.
Montague....
|>
|>Instead of returning to Toronto, he relied instead on a "former senior
|>police officer" and his business partner to clean up the mess in his trashed
|>apartment. After 30 years of living in Canada, he plans to make Florida his
|>home. His son Michael lives nearby and runs a security company. Hargreaves
|>and his wife bought their house for $199,000 US in October 2004. He no
|>longer has the subsidized housing unit on Gilder.
Ok this plug six as far as I know...yer gonna ask, where did he get the
money from.....shatters some confidence on Mike..
|>
|>In addition to helping police forces, Hargreaves' resume shows that he has
|>testified as an expert witness on behalf of the defence in Toronto court
|>cases numerous times. He suspects that is one reason the police have charged
|>him - they don't like that he used his knowledge of guns for people charged
|>with gun-related offences.
|>
|>"I've never been charged with a criminal offence in any country I've lived
|>in, Britain, Germany, Australia, Canada, `til this," said Hargreaves who
|>says he has been stabbed twice, and shot once in the hand by an errant
|>bullet on the firing range.
|>
|>"I think I had two speeding tickets in 30 years."
|>
|>While the incident in Canada has left a bad taste, Hargreaves remains
|>unabashed about his passion.
I think the Japanese Lieberal Syndicate has rocked Canada a bit to the
point of elevated concerns over inanimate objects.
|>
|>"I've had a love affair with guns since I was a child," said Hargreaves. "My
|>dad said I'd grow out of it, but he was wrong."
Another shattered Canadian dream...compliments of the UN/NWO...
Choke
Triad Productions-Fantalla(c)~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
An Armed Society is a Poletzi Society
WWWeb>> http://r-lacasse.ammo.at
TC
1. Catch the thieves.
2. Return the stolen merchandise, if possible.
3. The thieves would be required to pay restitution to the victim in the
form of 5 times the value what they stole in case they weren't able to
return what was stolen, or twice the value even if they did return the
stolen items. If the thieves steal again, twice more after being caught the
first time, they are summarily executed. This solution comes from the Common
Law and is the proper methodology by which matters like this are solved.
Under the Common Law, crime pays: the victim.
There are those special interest groups out there who wish to disarm
everyone in an attempt to
create some kind of delusional utopia, then I say disarm *EVERYONE*, cops
included. Fair is fair
--
***************************
Socialist 'Max the Canuck' on
Tues, Mar 22 2005 3:05 pm said to a conservative poster:
"Since I'm a left wing feller, I wanna make sure you look as bad as
possible."
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
"> Non-Canadians should be deported for even the smallest crime
"> as we don't need more criminals in Canada.
You're right, we don't need more criminals in Canada, so, since we can't deport
them, Canadian criminals should just be executed for even the smallest crimes!
--
Because I care,
|<+]::-( ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-
note new preferred reply email: Cyberpope67(at)yahoo(dot)com
PS This post specially encoded for verification purposes
--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.
Brian Bagnall
outlawed!
Cars kill 1000's of people each year. They must be outlawed!
Airplanes kill hundreds of people each year. They must be outlawed!
People kill 1000's of people each year. They must be outlawed!
- B
"J. Swindon" <jswi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d8loF...@individual.net...
The Right One
education." "I've never been outside of Manitoba!"
"Brian Bagnall" <bbag...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:RiBwf.1249$Js7...@fe19.lga...
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mike wilcox
Question, all blather about guns aside,Why in hell is this guy who
winters at his house in Florida allowed to use much needed subsidized
housing space as his private storage vault in the first place? People
have been on waiting lists for years to get one of these apartments.
Michael Werner
"mike wilcox" <appra...@sympatico.ca> wrote
> Question, all blather about guns aside,Why in hell is this guy who
> winters at his house in Florida allowed to use much needed subsidized
> housing space as his private storage vault in the first place? People
> have been on waiting lists for years to get one of these apartments.
It was answered in the report when he said that he had the apartment for
over 10 years and got it because at the time his income was low enough to
qualify. Obviously there isn't a mechanism to effectively check the income
changes of those who no longer qualify for subsidized housing or they are
permitted to retain it indefinitely (which I doubt).
Icarus
stringent screening of the gun owners. WHAT a load of shit! Screening for
handguns is even MORE stringent than me acquinging my permits for my rifles.
SO...suppose the unfortunate collector was into knives / swords? What say
you then? Hey...wait a minute...let's clean up and alienate all the porn
collectors... Jeez...let's grab all the parents and grand-parents who save
pics of there kids...bet those bastards are setting up underground youth pic
trading clubs.
YA CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH PEOPLE. We should NOT be made to live in fortressess.
Yes, mine are key-locked in a steel cabinet with each having it's own
trigger lock. NOW IS THE TIME TO EXPORT ALL IMMIGRANTS INTO CANADA
COMMITTING WEAPON / VIOLENT CRIMES. Persons BORN as Canadians...who are
fooling HERE. DROP THE AGE TO TRY THEM AS ADULTS...sure as hell isn't 1950.
Kids know FULL WELL what's going on SO...don't target the
collectors...target the criminals and crime. Let's beef up the sentance and
MAKE THEM SERVE IT while working for their keep. I just can't TELL you how
much I love seeing my tax dollars go into their meals and accomodations just
to learn NEW tricks inside.
Doc
> NOW IS THE TIME TO EXPORT ALL IMMIGRANTS INTO CANADA
> COMMITTING WEAPON / VIOLENT CRIMES. Persons BORN as Canadians...who are
> fooling HERE. DROP THE AGE TO TRY THEM AS ADULTS...sure as hell isn't 1950.
>
That worked so well in the USA that they enjoy at least 4 times the gun
crime rate as Canada. Following their example is like asking a pedophile
to baby sit your kids.
mike wilcox
I don't think that's true, I have a relation that lives in subsidized
seniors apartment complex and they have to submit income tax statements
every year and their rent is adjusted to income.
10x@teluös.net
wrote:
>Thieves took two days to break open a safe to steal at least 32 guns
>Collector lost $40,000 in firearms
>
>Jan. 7, 2006. 10:23 AM Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/7z85d
>BETSY POWELL, DALE BRAZAO AND JOHN DUNCANSON
>TORONTO STAR STAFF REPORTERS
>
>ORLANDO, FLA.-Dozens of high-powered weapons that have flooded Toronto
>streets were stolen from a well-known gun collector and firearms instructor
>who kept his dangerous stash in a subsidized housing apartment in
>Scarborough.
Why hasn't the two billion dollar gun registry stopped criminals from
stealing guns?
Why does this massive mistake hold a gun owner accountable when they
are the victims of a crime?
WHy are there no protections for firearms owners in the firearms act,
only liablities?
Put people who steal in jail. Make them aware stealing anything, let
alone guns is a bad thing to do. Make sure they think twice before
even contemplating stealing anything.
take the ö out of 10x@teluös.net to email me
10x@teluös.net
>"Spokesman" <h...@spam.net> wrote:
>"> Non-Canadians should be deported for even the smallest crime
>"> as we don't need more criminals in Canada.
>
>You're right, we don't need more criminals in Canada, so, since we can't deport
>them, Canadian criminals should just be executed for even the smallest crimes!
Including those in the police and justice system who convict
wrongfully...
10x@teluös.net
<appra...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Question, all blather about guns aside,Why in hell is this guy who
>winters at his house in Florida allowed to use much needed subsidized
>housing space as his private storage vault in the first place? People
>have been on waiting lists for years to get one of these apartments.
Just another Liberal perk...
TC
TC
--
***************************
Socialist 'Max the Canuck' on
Tues, Mar 22 2005 3:05 pm said to a conservative poster:
"Since I'm a left wing feller, I wanna make sure you look as bad as
possible."
"J. Swindon" <jswi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d8loF...@individual.net...
> Thieves took two days to break open a safe to steal at least 32 guns
> Collector lost $40,000 in firearms
>
> Jan. 7, 2006. 10:23 AM Pictures: http://tinyurl.com/7z85d
> BETSY POWELL, DALE BRAZAO AND JOHN DUNCANSON
> TORONTO STAR STAFF REPORTERS
1. Catch the thieves.
2. Return the stolen merchandise, if possible.
3. The thieves would be required to pay restitution to the victim in the
form of 5 times the value what they stole in case they weren't able to
return what was stolen, or twice the value even if they did return the
stolen items. If the thieves steal again, twice more after being caught the
first time, they are summarily executed. This solution comes from the Common
Law and is the proper methodology by which matters like this are solved.
Under the Common Law, crime pays: the victim.
There are those out there who wish to disarm everyone in an attempt to
create some kind of delusional utopia, then I say disarm *EVERYONE*, cops
included. Fair is fair.
Free Man
> In a sane world, here is the solution to theft - gun or otherwise.
>
> 1. Catch the thieves.
>
> 2. Return the stolen merchandise, if possible.
>
to do is go down to the USA and hire one of their crime fighting super
heros. I don't think we can afford Superman, so Batman might have to
do.
Henry Makow knows all the answers but he's been hiding in his Fortress Of
Solitude for the Winter and isn't expected out until sometime in June.
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:23:59 +0000 (UTC), gap...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>
> >"Spokesman" <h...@spam.net> wrote:
> >"> Non-Canadians should be deported for even the smallest crime
> >"> as we don't need more criminals in Canada.
> >
> >You're right, we don't need more criminals in Canada, so, since we can't
>
> wrongfully...
Yeah, I just thought that went without saying. . .
and, of course, elected officials!
looie
<appra...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Question, all blather about guns aside,Why in hell is this guy who
>winters at his house in Florida allowed to use much needed subsidized
>housing space as his private storage vault in the first place? People
>have been on waiting lists for years to get one of these apartments.
Because, as the editor of SCREW magazine said, some thirty years ago,
on the Morton Shulman show on CITY TV, "It's all lies, and they're all
liars."
Has anything changed since then?
Lone Ghost
Jan 9, 8:49 pm show options
Newsgroups: calgary.general, can.atlantic.general, can.politics,
edm.general, hfx.general, tor.general, van.general, wpg.general
From: mike wilcox <apprais...@sympatico.ca> - Find messages by this
author
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:49:04 -0500
Local: Mon, Jan 9 2006 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: 32 Machine Guns, Glock Handguns And Assault Rifles Stolen
>From Toronto Collector Are Still On The Streets.
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
Michael Werner wrote:
> "mike wilcox" <apprais...@sympatico.ca> wrote
>>Question, all blather about guns aside,Why in hell is this guy who
>>winters at his house in Florida allowed to use much needed subsidized
>>housing space as his private storage vault in the first place? People
>>have been on waiting lists for years to get one of these apartments.
Because since Bill C-68 was brought in a gun owner is no
longer permitted to store their weapons at the local police
stations for safe keeping, even if they pay for the storage.
This directive came directly from the federal government
from police officers have told me.
Personally I have seen crap from the government that
leads me to believe this was intentional so that people would
a) be strong armed into giving up their guns cause moving them
and storing them is a hassle and
b) it allows thieves to steal the guns so that police and
government have and excuse to ban guns.
I would think it paranoid too if I had not personally seen government
officials use this law to abuse gun owners and try to imprision them
for just those reasons.
Voting Liberal or Conservative is a vote for a police state.
Sharx35
"Lone Ghost" <ghosts_w...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137979578.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Is that what the "voices" told you this morning?
>
Sew
<ghosts_w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Voting Liberal or Conservative is a vote for a police state.
Voting NDP will give you a police state. If you like unions and
business making lots and lots of profit then vote NDP. Ask B.C.