Questions from potential Cal 2-46 owner - comparisons to a "normal" boat

[peter hamilton]

Hi all, 

We're a young family of 5 with 3 girls aged 6, 9 & 11 in San Diego.  We've been slowly increasing our sailing range from a Cat 22, to a Beneteau First 405 for the past 5 years, which we just sold yesterday.  Looking to upgrade to something a bit more comfortable with more range for West Coast cruising over the summers for maybe 1-2 months at a time.  Also take the grandparents out every weekend for a daysail, do frequent overnights, etc.  

Mostly we've been looking at 3-cabin French boats in the 43-46' range.  Wife loves the wider cockpit, swim step, etc.  The newer boats seem like the logical choice, but....

There's also a Cal 2-46 here (FREYA) with a galley-down layout that we really like and has sort of lodged itself in my brain - surprising since I've been generally more interested in performance sailing boats, but have decided to compromise for the sake of family comfort on our next boat.  I love the engine room.  It's got pretty old/simple rigging (wire halyards, original Barient winches), an intimidating array of aluminum tanks, and a vastly different hull shape than what I'm familiar with.  

From my research so far, you all are a pretty biased crowd :) but I'd love to get some perspective on the pros/cons of this vessel versus the more modern designs for my intended use case.  I love the layout, the big saloon windows, the headroom and livability of the interior.  

Things I'm not so sure about are how much actual sailing I'd be able to do with her SA/D in our relatively light airs.  Access to the water seems like another con.  A big uncertainty to me is how she'd feel in our Pacific swell compared to the stiffer, wider, lighter displacement fin keel vessels I'm used to.  I imagine a slower motion but maybe more rolling.  Would love to make the 80nm slog up to Catalina into the swell and current less of a chore so we could get up there more often.  

Thoughts welcome!  Thanks!

Pete

[Phil Rink]

Almost 10 years ago we did the Caribbean in a three-cabin Beneteau Oceanus 400. It was great for our family of four.

 

www.caribmermaid.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5FJxAdDQ2w

 

Later, with just the two of us, we cruised the west coast and Mexico in the 2-46 Bright Water. It was the perfect boat for the two of us. Dunno what you’d do with the three gurlz. Let them figure it out, probably. You could probably make a hidden pilot berth or two in the saloon if you look at it long enough. If you get a standard galley up layout, you can put sea berths in the companionway and let the gurlz have the aft end.

 

The boat is fantastic, but we made changed that address your issues about tankage and water access. Our stowable swim step worked great and made the boat much safer and more useable.

 

www.svbrightwater.wordpress.com.

 

Have fun.

 

Phil Rink

 

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[Peter Hamilton]

Thanks Phil - I’ve had a look at some of the posts on your site & it’s very informative.  I’ll have to look at the tankage stuff again.  

Girls would get the aft cabin (double and single berth).  We’re used to relatively small spaces & I think that would work for them, at least for the next few years.  

[Edwin]

Hi

I’ve been in Sailing since 1978

And I’ve read all sailing books studied boat designs

DL ratios SA/D ratio etc etc

And I’ve made a list of all the things I wanted in my ideal boat 

That it have to have indoor steering  pilot house

Large fuel and water tanks

Spacious, had to be full keel

And shallow draft and be solid 

No bolted on keels 

No fin keel, no hull (fillers)foam or balsa sandwich

I have gone from Miami boat shows to Annapolis boat shows to San Diego to Oakland shows

And I’ve looked at many many boats and have sailed in a number of modern boats

It took me 17 years to find my dream boat: the original bill lapworth Cal cruising 46 of which they made 15 of these

They were not widely accepted because of their radically futuristic designs (they were 50 yrs ahead of their time)

So they modified it and called it cal 2-46

They Took out the aft engine room

And moved it midship with the engine at midship

They converted the aft engine room into captains quarter

They put the helm at center and removed the indoor helm

The hull and rigging is exactly the same but from what I hear they sail and handle slightly different 

Mine is hull 5 built in 1968

And am told has circumnavigated the world before GPS and cell phones existed 

I couldn’t be happier with my boat of 13 years 

Everyone who see is say it’s built like a battle ship, strong thick solid fiberglass hull

Everything over engineered 

It’s very sturdy and can sail over 6 knots on light wind (6-8 knot wind )

I have people whenever  I’m catalina who wish to take a tour which I’m always happy to show them   I even have a functional fireplace with a flute

And people look in awe

I suggest you read an article I think it’s called

The cal40  the boat that changed the rules of racing designs forever 

A beautiful article about the legendary cal 40 that forever changed racing boat designs

And kept Winning transpacific races year after year even 20yrs after it came out

Previous owners have made mine comfortable 

Vacuflush (I Installed a bidet)

In mast furling 

 It away the transom and installed a boarding step

I’ve juts recently installed a davit and a Dodger canopy

I can say without a doubt

You will love the finesse and calm sure footed ride of a cal2-46, and the proven safety record of these gems 

It’s truely legendary 

Good luck

Edwin

S/V Lahlia

Cal cruising 46

Marina del Rey CA

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[Alfred Bloch]

Hi Peter and Edwin:

I agree with Edwin’s comments. But to go a little further, the III moved the galley to the passageway  it also created a good navigation table in the salon. 

We’ve upgraded a great deal over the years. For example, we added a 22 gallon stainless day tank under the nav station. That we did after a very heavy sea filled up our Racor (with decay from the main tanks) and starved the dependable Perkins diesel in unpleasant circumstances. 

We now fill the day tank when at anchor through Racor 1. Under-weigh fuel goes from day tank through Racor 2 in the engine. 

After consultation with Bill Lapworth, we added a strong, good sized staysail. It makes us a little faster up wind, and we are able to point a little higher. But, forget about the graceful tacking you used to do in your Beneteau. 

Alfred Bloch 

S/V Ariel 

On Mar 27, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Edwin <edw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

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[Gord Lamb]

Hey Peter,

I want to preface this by saying: Wanderlust, my 2-46, is by baby.  I wouldn't trade her for the world.

Now, having said that.. A few words of caution:

There's no getting around it; these are old boats.  The condition at this point depends completely on their previous owners over the last 20+ years.  I thought I'd scored an incredible deal when I got mine for ~$50k USD, 5 years ago, but since then I've dropped over $150k USD on her.  She's my liveaboard, and I've spared no expense; I knew I'd be spending a lot to refit, but I wasn't wholly prepared for the eye-watering amount of money I'd actually end up putting into the boat.

Due to a lack of access, I was never able to verify the state of the tanks during the survey.  They were original, and I knew it was likely something I'd have to address at some point.  However, it was only the next year when I noticed that one of the water tanks was leaking, and extracting it meant tearing up much of the cabin sole.  I decided to bite the bullet, and replaced all of the tankage on the boat, along with the cabin sole and any other damaged woodwork.  About $70k USD there, even doing much of the work myself.

That may seem absurd, but I plan to own this boat for a very long time (and was preparing for a circumnavigation, which, needless to say, has been delayed).  I went with 3/16" 316 stainless tanks (with flanges that now form structural elements, replacing the creaky wooden riser posts), which will outlive me by a longshot.  I never want to repeat a job like that.

By this point I was committed to turning her into the "perfect boat" (alarm bells, right?  sunk cost falacy and all that) .. I should mention that I've lived aboard (in the summers) for the last 5 years, and work remotely from my office aboard.  It's my only significant physical asset, and I'm a little OCD when it comes to materials and quality of workmanship.  I went on to replace about 3/4 of the electrical, panels, wiring, sockets, inverter/chargers, solar, batteries.. all of the plumbing, all of the pumps, navigation electronics, .. you name it.  Refinished most of the decks.  Replaced sails.. rebuilt her winches, replaced her ground tackle... the list goes on and on.

Point of this somewhat winded story is - if you have a certain amount of self control and can live with the reality of most older boats, she is a hell of a ship.  She's faster than one would expect on most points of sail.  I have the ketch, and no she doesn't point well, but she has a beautiful, seakindly motion, so what's the hurry?  I've put about 7500NM under her keel, 90% singlehanded.  She's easy to read and I've felt safe and relaxed in 35 sustained knots.

I would just say - they are old boats.  They can consume you if you let them. :)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cal46/5AB30B88-57D8-4BE6-8A6D-9EA3A461E1DC%40gmail.com.

--

Gordon

s/v Wanderlust

[NICHOLAS SHAW]

Or you could wait until someone like Gord or I sell which by the way won’t happen with me until I’m dead so be prepared to wait. Seriously I joke that every 1000$ I put in will bring my wife an extra $15 after I’m gone! 

Regarding the tanks, It doesn’t have to be as pricey as Gord experienced. My po had to remove the fuel tanks due to corrosion about 10 yrs ago. He cut access in the floor with a skil saw. It wasn’t too pretty but I’ve repaired that and now have nice access panels. On Dulce Sueno the po was able to cut the bottoms off and weld on new tank bottoms for reasonable $$$. So far I’ve had no problems and I’ve inspected and cleaned them thoroughly. They look good. The stainless water tanks have not presented any issues. 

On the “everything else “ list I’ve done much of the same and I’m all in for over $200,000 now. Find one that’s already been done and you’ll likely get it for under $150,000.

Same applies to any old boat this size!

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Gord Lamb <gla...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Peter Hamilton]

Thanks all - this is extremely helpful.  

The vessel in San Diego has the original aluminum water and fuel tanks, though a stainless day tank has been added above the engine.  I’m surprised you need to take a saw to the sole to get at the tanks!  

The cosmetic condition is very good, but the tanks and a rigging upgrade alone could turn her into a pretty expensive boat (she’s asking $88k).  Certainly would be better to buy one where the really pricey stuff had already been done but that requires some luck - particularly since I really prefer the galley down layout that this particular vessel has been upgraded to.  

Pete

[Edwin]

I guess that would depend on how badly the fuel and water tanks need replacement 

Also another solid but much bulkier boat made in the same area (costa mesa CA, the Mecca of boat building in the 60’s to 70’s TIL environment restrictions had forced closures) is Down Easter boats

Also solid but wider beam

And heavier. The midcockpit design is nice. They have bowsprits so the 45 looks ginormous 

Another great blue water boats are pan oceanic boats built in Taiwan and Philippines 

Good luck

Edwin

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[Gord Lamb]

For what it's worth, while tankage is a big one, there's of course no shortage of big tickets items to go around. :)

I got stung on the tankage.  But, the main engine was practically immaculate; it had 1,300 hours since the last rebuild (around 2,000 now).  No leaks or issues, though I did decide to rebuild the fuel injector pump (about $150 for the parts kit and a good 4 hours).  Replaced all the high pressure fuel pipes, rubber hoses and coolant pumps, and repainted.  Aside from that it's run like a champ for 5 years.

The rigging was, and is still in great shape.  The windlass works fine.  Anchor chain serviceable.  Rudder was dry as a bone.  Previously peeled and barrier coated.  Hull to deck joint reglassed.  The sails were old, but in good enough shape I could enjoy the boat and only started replacing them last year.  The tankage was the only big ticket item I had to address immediately.  The rest was my ill-advised obsession with that elusive goal of perfection.

I'd say if the boat looks good - glass and brightwork well maintained, sails bagged / covered, clean and thoughtfully provisioned with modern(ish) electronics and no obvious signs of decay or inattentiveness, then it might be worth a survey.

PS - regarding the rigging.. 316 isn't as expensive as it used to be 20 years ago, especially if you're only changing wires (ie. Sta-Lok/Norseman).  Depends on what's there.

--

Gordon

s/v Wanderlust

[Steve]

Here’s a new elliptical rudder we just built. Better balance  

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Gord Lamb <gla...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cal46/CAKc8cTdZj0kxdKtb%2Buzeb4toHECDMbhvmkxONY_aMp5po7Wu%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nick Shaw]

Very nice Steve

Can you provide details on who made it and what it cost?

Thanks

Nick

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cal46/7DE553B4-CF44-4E4D-8464-EA316229A7CB%40sbcglobal.net.

[rickdunbar53]

We purchased SV Bright Water from Phil and Nancy Rink 3 years ago. She has been renamed SV AKIA. Since then we have had the motor aligned, motor mounts and cutlass bearings replaced, upgraded the electrical system from 30 to 50 amps, upped the invertor to 4000 watts, added an arch on the stern with 700 watts of solar, moved the radar dome to the arch, added a shower sump, added two ac reverse cycle heat pump units, resized the prop, added an electric toilet in the aft head, replaced the AGM batteries with LiFePO4, added a 6kw generator, had the sales inspected and repaired, repaired the ceiling in the forward head from a leaky dorade vent, had the lifelines raised from 25" to 36", got a larger dinghy and outboard motor.

We are a few short months from retiring and heading north for the summer and Covid19 arrived uninvited. Our departure may be delayed but not derailed. If we cant get north this summer we'll head south this fall.

Love this boat and cannot wait to get going.

Rick and Judy Dunbar

SV AKIA

Tacoma, Wa.

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[Edwin]

Wow

Congrats

Fantastic job

That’s just super

Please send some pix 

Happy sailing

Edwin

S/V Lahlia

Cal cruising 46

Marina Del Rey CA

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