System Choices Celeron? novice seeks advice
Peter Black
I am going to be upgrading my hardware soon and have been reading about the
intel celeron 333 as a good chip to run cakewalk 8.01.
I am looking for a brief summary as to wether this is the best balance
between power and budget. I will be recording around 6-10 audio tracks (with
effects) and midi. I have seen reference to overclocking to 450, is this
safe? Is it just a case of setting the board to a 450 chip? What about
overheating?
Many thanks for any advice
Pete
Jon Gibbs
run a Celeron 333 on a BH6 m/b and am quite happy with the performance with
CWPA8. I've only ever had four or so audio tracks going but had a probably
5-6 plugin effects going and there seems to be plenty of headroom.
As for overclocking the 333, you can but I over did it and somehow corrupted
my disk needing a full install.
I wouldn't bother with full PII's. The Celeron was originally without cache
memory making it slower. The 300 and 333's had cache added (128K as opposed
to the 512k on the full PII's) so there a reasonable compromise. The long
and short of it is I'm on a 333 celeron. If you want to overclock go for the
300. Spend any money you have on fast 10ns memory. I run with 96M. Get a
motherboard that allows lots of intermediate clock speeds (because thats how
you over clock and not through changing the multipliers) and find a reliable
speed between 66M and 125M.
Trust this helps.
Jon
Peter Black wrote in message <76ij4k$n...@hope.harvard.net>...
Eric Deibler
Ted Perlman
Bad advice.
Ted Perlman
pete leoni
The standard PII performs almost as well as the Celeron 300a, So what the
PII costs a lot more? The hardworking people at Intel need your money. Buy
a PII, help those poor CEO's and CFO's out. What good does it do to have
the excellent performance, reliability and price of a Celeron A when you
can't even sleep at night because you are wracked with guilt? Do the right
thing. The small performance hit you will have when using a PII instead of
a Celeron A, is a tiny price to pay for the sound sleep and clean
conscience
that only the charitable donation of about $500 of your hard earned money
to the execs at Intel will buy you. While you are at it send a few bucks to
those hardworking guys in congress too.
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<76jc23$p...@hope.harvard.net>...
Craig Gephart
You still get what you pay for and PII's are becoming more affordable.
Craig Gephart
Ted Perlman wrote in message <76jc23$p...@hope.harvard.net>...
pete leoni
beast which is anything but stripped in comparison, and outperforms the PII
in almost all apps, especially fpu intensive audio/video work. A good place
to start any research on hardware is Tomshardwareguide.com, but there are
many unbiased sites on the web, and all tell the same tale.
The Celeron A is based on the advanced Mendecino core which is cut from the
same silicone as the main cpu. This enables the L2 cache to be scaled to
the same speed as the CPU, enabling much better performance, less heat and
more reliability from the overall package. The older PII core is a dinosaur
by comparison, and it is only a matter of time and stock until Intel moves
the PII to this platform as well.
It's very true you get what you pay for, but sometimes you get a lot more
if the currency you use is not dollars, but wisdom that comes from the time
invested in research.
pete
Craig Gephart <cgep...@pa.net> wrote in article
<76jfp7$p...@hope.harvard.net>...
Randy Williams
a top-notch machine and possibly even better than a PII. I'm "celery-aware"
and probably would go that route if I purchase a system in the next few
months. It makes good sense for me.
However, I have to say that Ted's advice is not without merit.
For some people the words "proven", "supported", "recommended", "warrantied"
etc are just too important to overlook.
Even though an o/c'd Celeron DOES outperform a PII at a fraction of the
cost, it doesn't mean that the PII should just be ignored when considering a
new purchase. For some people, given a choice, piece of mind may be a more
important factor than a few hundred dollars.
I'm impressed with the Celeron claims, and I believe them. However when Ted
recommends that it is a bad idea to rule out a PII, I agree with him. The
PII may clearly be the better buy depending on how an individual weighs
their priorities.
pete leoni wrote in message
<01be35d9$978984e0$cf5b...@Pdemotech.ametro.net>...
Ted Perlman
<The hardworking people at Intel need your money>
You know, after all your sarcastic comments, I checked with my brother, who
is an engineer at Xerox. He confirmed my feelings, saying that he and all
the other engineers there consider the Celeron (all models) to just be a
budget line Pentium and that the Pentium II is the only chip for any serious
computer work, unless you go for the Xeon. AND they do not buy into the
overclocking thing, either. But, hey, good luck to you.
Ted Perlman
Jan Gerstenberger
> beast which is anything but stripped in comparison, and outperforms the PII
> in almost all apps, especially fpu intensive audio/video work. A good place
> to start any research on hardware is Tomshardwareguide.com, but there are
> many unbiased sites on the web, and all tell the same tale.
Hi Pete,
Have you already created a keyboard shortcut for automatically posting
this information? Considering how regularly this has to posted in order
to clarify things, it would definitely make sense. <G>
Jan
================================
Jan Gerstenberger
http://www.bigfoot.com/~gerstenberger
listen to my music at
http://www.mp3.com/Jan
pete leoni
pete
pete leoni
chips. They always reply with "Thank you for your honesty Mr. Leoni your
warranty is now null and void, how's Ted doing by the way, we really like
Ted here at Intel". <G>
pete
Scott Vita
>For some people, given a choice, piece of mind may be a more
> important factor than a few hundred dollars.
It's actually more like $500.
> I'm impressed with the Celeron claims, and I believe them. However when
Ted
> recommends that it is a bad idea to rule out a PII, I agree with him.
The
> PII may clearly be the better buy depending on how an individual weighs
> their priorities.
You know what they say about a fool and his money.
Scott Vita
Peter Black
I am slightly overawed by the number, I obviously hit a rich seam!
Will let you know what I buy soon!
Pete
Scott Vita
My brother has his own very successful computer graphics company. He works
with all kinds of computers, including SGI workstations that cost upwards
of 300K. He views the Celeron 300a as a rare opportunity to not get
hammered by Intel for once. Have you ever noticed how steeply the price
rises when you look at Intel's top of the line product? That's because they
know there are those who will pay it regardless. I am sure these chips
offer them the highest profit margin.
If you or your brother have any benchmarks or other valid performance data
regarding the Celeron 300a vs the PII450 I'd be interested in seeing them.
Until then I see no advantage to paying 5x the price for an inferior chip.
Scott Vita
stupid0
cpumark99 benchmark because the celeron would have faster cache. FPU
performance would be about the same.
On 2 Jan 1999 04:55:05 GMT, "Scott Vita" <sv...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
pete leoni
An engineer at Xerox is hardly in any position to judge the relative
merits of CPU's. That is like taking your wife to a dentist for gynecology!
I would easily gather that most of the people in this NG are much, much,
more well informed than an engineer Xerox for goodness sake! The Audio
community, along with the video guys and even the gamers are the groups
that demand the very most of our computers. These users *are* the authority
! Benchmarks by unbiased parties my man, benchmarks! I believe that in
addition to nearly all of the major independent hardware sites in the
world, our own Jeremy Taylor, and some others have done comparative tests
between the PII 450, and The Celeron A @ 450. Of course I too have done a
comparison using Soundforge Noise reduction, and the Celeron A was about 7%
faster in the worst case. Ted, you may be the greatest guitar picker in the
universe, but I truly think you may be well over your head here! The
people in this NG really know computers and I totally respect their
opinions. The Celeron A has now been running so well for so long now that
it is all really a very mute point by now. Some of us have been running
this thing for so long enough now that I'm sure some will soon upgrade when
Intel or AMD makes a significantly faster chip. The Celeron A is nearly
reaching "veteran" status in this fast moving silicon world. This is
beginning to sound like a "horse vs. automobile" discussion. (-;
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<76k5fh$s...@hope.harvard.net>...
Ted Perlman
think you may be well over your head here! The
people in this NG really know computers>
You can come back at me with a differing opinion, but to relegate me to the
status of simply a "guitar player" who doesn't know computers is to degrade
what I do 24/7, year in and year out.. I have recording, teaching,
arranging, and programming experience that goes so far beyond what you
consider "experienced" that it is ridiculous to even discuss. Your reduction
of what I do to simply a "guitarist", while flattering, is at the same time
on the verge of insulting. You can all use whatever the fuck you want to use
on your computers, but I wish you would stop referring to anyone that
doesn't agree with you as "not as equipped to know what the truth is". I am
not only MORE equipped, experienced, and knowledgeable than you as far as
computers go, I also have enough sense not to denigrate you when you
disagree with me by referring to you simply as a "piano player".
Ted Perlman
Scott Vita
>I am not only MORE equipped, experienced, and knowledgeable than you as
far as
> computers go,
Now THAT is funny. I'm glad to see you haven't lost your sense of humor
through all of this. <g>
Scott Vita
Peter Black
After all this heated debate on chips and morality I have a fairly mundane
technical question.
With the Celeron 300a and BH6 motherboard how many audio tracks can you get
with effects?
I plan to get a maxtor 6.4 drive, 64 PC100 Ram and depending on how flexible
the plastic is a Yamaha SW1000XG.
Thanks in advance
Pete
Jeremy Taylor
My new policy - To each his own.
I can only say I prefer my Cyrix : )
Instead of talking about what to get - Why don't we talk about what not to
get for a while.
JT
pete leoni wrote in message
<01be3628$232d0fa0$d15b...@Pdemotech.ametro.net>...
>Your brother is no Tom Pabst, or Anand Shimpi.
>
> An engineer at Xerox is hardly in any position to judge the relative
>merits of CPU's. That is like taking your wife to a dentist for gynecology!
> I would easily gather that most of the people in this NG are much, much,
>more well informed than an engineer Xerox for goodness sake! The Audio
>community, along with the video guys and even the gamers are the groups
>that demand the very most of our computers. These users *are* the authority
>! Benchmarks by unbiased parties my man, benchmarks! I believe that in
>addition to nearly all of the major independent hardware sites in the
>world, our own Jeremy Taylor, and some others have done comparative tests
>between the PII 450, and The Celeron A @ 450. Of course I too have done a
>comparison using Soundforge Noise reduction, and the Celeron A was about 7%
>faster in the worst case. Ted, you may be the greatest guitar picker in the
>universe, but I truly think you may be well over your head here! The
Jeremy Taylor
BH6- Celery 300A@ 450 128MB CAS-2 ECC
Fasttrack RAID Array with 4 10GB Maxtor 2550 drives
amongst some other stuff
In a pure all out Track playback I can hit upwards of 100 tracks (44.1
/16 bit) on a fresh drive
At 16 Tracks I can easily get 16 Dynamics, and 16 Stereo Reverbs
PS. 2X Dman 2044
JT
Peter Black wrote in message <76lbbl$3...@hope.harvard.net>...
Bruce A. Richardson
probably a fine engineer, but:
1) hardly informed about the demands of audio applications or the particular
merits the Celeron 300a system offers.
2) not sitting in front of the system in question
How are you going to find any better authority on this issue than the folks
who are making it work? What your brother at Xerox says is moot...like
those TV commercials that say, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV."
Interestingly enough, the unless you go for the Xeon, is quite damning. For
our purposes, the Celeron offers a good many advantages of the Xeon for
chump change.
--
Bruce A. Richardson
Purple Iguana Productions
bandm...@sprynet.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/purpleiguana
Ted Perlman wrote in message <76k5fh$s...@hope.harvard.net>...
pete leoni
rely on the information that is readily available made available to us by
the experts. When I am not recording I have a hobby, I read, I investigate,
I snoop ! After I have collated all of the relevant data, then, and *only*
then will I make a report to my friends here this group that I rely on so
heavily for accurate information. Down here in the south we have a motto
"Don't shit where you sleep"
If I were to report that the Celeron A chips were inferior to the PII's in
this NG, I would be badly soiling the sheets here. Also, If I did not
report this kind of *accurate* information when I find, I wouldn't be
pulling my weight here in this group, and that would not be right either.
Not defending what I know to be good information is also wrong, you see, I
have no choice. There is no denigration involved in alluding to the fact
that you are not a computer expert. Although I have built 25 or so
computers last year, I do not consider myself as an expert, and certainly
not qualified to spread information contrary to the people in this world
who *are* real bonified computer experts, such as Tom Pabst, or Anand
Shimpi and the rest of those who make a living out of doing *nothing* else
but testing computer hardware.
I have built 25 computers, that makes me a Piano Player. When you finally
decide you are able to build your first computer, you will be a Guitar
Player
Quityerbellyachin
pete
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<76ku84$1...@hope.harvard.net>...
> <Ted, you may be the greatest guitar picker in the universe, but I truly
> think you may be well over your head here! The
> people in this NG really know computers>
>
> You can come back at me with a differing opinion, but to relegate me to
the
> status of simply a "guitar player" who doesn't know computers is to
degrade
> what I do 24/7, year in and year out.. I have recording, teaching,
> arranging, and programming experience that goes so far beyond what you
> consider "experienced" that it is ridiculous to even discuss. Your
reduction
> of what I do to simply a "guitarist", while flattering, is at the same
time
> on the verge of insulting. You can all use whatever the fuck you want to
use
> on your computers, but I wish you would stop referring to anyone that
> doesn't agree with you as "not as equipped to know what the truth is". I
am
> not only MORE equipped, experienced, and knowledgeable than you as far as
pete leoni
Jeremy Taylor <CD...@Accnorwalk.com> wrote in article
<76li48$4...@hope.harvard.net>...
Ted Perlman
be a Guitar Player>
That ain't never gonna happen, so I guess I'll remain a computer expert. <g>
I have NO desire whatsoever to build a PC from scratch myself. You nut-jobs
can have all that fun to yourselves, I have no desire to put myself through
that.
Ted Perlman
Paul Harker
Actually, I've made my living for over the last decade as both a hardware
and software engineer for a military and commercial avionics corporation. If
it is an engineer's opinion that counts, mine is that the Celeron 300a at
450MHZ is an EXCELLENT choice. Sure you take a chance that it may not
overclock. But from what I have seen retail Celerons are very high yeild for
overclocking, and even if you had to buy two or three to get there
(unlikely) you would still have saved hundreds of dollars.
My Celeron 300a/450 system (at home) is at least as stable as my Pentium II
system (at work).
Paul
-----
Ted Perlman <ted...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:76k5fh$s...@hope.harvard.net...
>
><The hardworking people at Intel need your money>
>
>You know, after all your sarcastic comments, I checked with my brother, who
>is an engineer at Xerox. He confirmed my feelings, saying that he and all
>the other engineers there consider the Celeron (all models) to just be a
>budget line Pentium and that the Pentium II is the only chip for any
serious
>computer work, unless you go for the Xeon. AND they do not buy into the
>overclocking thing, either. But, hey, good luck to you.
>
>Ted Perlman
>
>
Pete the Hasbeen
Bit terse
Pete
--
Remember - the sound-man ALWAYS has the last word ... {:o)
pete leoni
> You can have all that fun to yourselves, I have no desire to put myself
through that.
> Ted Perlman
It's a fairly painful three hours,
But the reward is a rock solid system, I've yet to crash mine, even
during heavy use.
(I just completed a session with Mark Gray (I think he wrote "The
Closer You Get" for Alabama) He is sold on this system, and was surprised
it wasn't Pro Tools, and even more surprised when it didn't crash all day
long
I have no doubt you have the skill to build this easily Ted.
The trouble is, you can't just go out and buy a computer from Dell or
Micron etc., that is suitable for digital audio work, or as reliable as one
that myself, Jim Roseberry, or a bunch of others here in the NG could build
for you. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that there is no higher
authority on practical PC audio in the entire *world*, than the collective
knowledge of this Cakewalk Audio newsgroup. I really mean that. This group
as a whole is on the leading edge, I can't even think of anywhere else to
even begin to look for this kind of accurate info. Think about it, who
knows more about this than this group collectively ?
Hell, if the vast majority of all the brains in this think-tank say it
works, than you can bloody well bet it does. As this err..... sustained....
uhhh........ "conversation" has proven that any info presented here will be
challenged, sometimes it will be challenged even long after the pudding has
already been "proofed", by the entire kitchen staff (well except for one of
the chefs who has never tasted the pudding. (-;
pete
pete
Mark Kral
Peace
Mark
ps I have 2 Pearl, (MAN!!!)s, working in perfect order at work and at home-
not a problem between them.
Steve Leigh
Ted Perlman wrote:
>
> <Ted, you may be the greatest guitar picker in the universe, but I truly
> think you may be well over your head here! The
> people in this NG really know computers>
>
> You can come back at me with a differing opinion, but to relegate me to the
> status of simply a "guitar player" who doesn't know computers is to degrade
> what I do 24/7, year in and year out.. I have recording, teaching,
> arranging, and programming experience that goes so far beyond what you
> consider "experienced" that it is ridiculous to even discuss. Your reduction
> of what I do to simply a "guitarist", while flattering, is at the same time
> on the verge of insulting. You can all use whatever the fuck you want to use
> on your computers, but I wish you would stop referring to anyone that
> doesn't agree with you as "not as equipped to know what the truth is". I am
> not only MORE equipped, experienced, and knowledgeable than you as far as
> computers go, I also have enough sense not to denigrate you when you
> disagree with me by referring to you simply as a "piano player".
Does this mean it's resume time yet?
--
Steve Leigh
Canine Training - Lutz, Florida USA
sle...@tampabay.rr.com
stupid0
too chicken to overclock or even put together their own systems.
Engineers just line up and send their money to Mr. Dell.
pete leoni
pete leoni
Some of those letters have been trademarked. Yer flirtin' fer a lawsuit
there buddy!
pete
pete leoni
it down, "Some people don't need a lot of time to look at a horseshoe, and
some people do"
It just don't take me very long to look at a horseshoe, Ted,
Your mileage may vary.
pete
Mark Kral
What - you mean Drums and Trucks.
Oops.
Peace
Mark