Re: Reasons for sealcoating cancellation
Gene Olson
Before you decide to paint the driveway next summer, there's something you should understand.
What you call "sealcoating", and what the City of Edina calls sealcoating are very different things. According to the Edina web site:
Sealcoating is the surface application of an asphalt emulsion followed by the placement of small graded aggregate. This coating is wear-resistant and protects pavements from oxidation and the effects of moisture. It puts a new wear surface on the pavement to protect the blacktop and extend the life of the road.This process replaces worn down asphalt with new similar material. You've seen this done on city streets and industrial parking lots. Small rocks are laid on top of a thick asphalt emulsion. Heavy equipment and traffic mash the rocks down into the emulsion. Sticky little rocks fly everywhere. They get into everything. Eventually, most of the rocks get embedded firmly and permanently into the asphalt. It's necessary to clean up the ones that don't.
https://edinamn.gov/347/Street-Repair
This process saves money, because it increases the life of the wear coat. Eventually the wear coat still has to be removed/replaced. A few weeks ago, the city replaced the wear coat on Cahill Road in front of our community.
The commercial process called "sealcoating" is different. It applies a petroleum paint-like material over an asphalt surface. It makes the surface look new again. There could be some protective benefit, but that is dubious. Mostly it's just black paint. Like paint it peels, and has to be done again to cover up the peeling. Eventually it builds up and looks ugly. You can leave it ugly, or you can remove it by replacing the asphalt wear coat.
This process doesn't save money. It costs money.
According to Wikipedia:
Sealcoat or pavement sealer is a coating for asphalt-based pavements. Sealcoating is marketed as a protective coating that extends the life of asphalt pavements. There is not any independent research that proves these claims.Helen and I think the driveway looks good the way it is. Several neighbors have approached me and said they did too. Obviously, I didn't take a vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealcoat
Homeowners should not be told that sealcoating will give them a more durable driveway. Because it probably won't. It will give them a black driveway. And it will cost more to do that. More now, more later.
When homeowners understand that, and they still want to sealcoat the driveway, then you should sealcoat the driveway. You should Paint It Black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqgGene & Helen
The Board decided to defer sealcoating as it became more fully aware of the importance of timing, and also to further consider sealcoat alternatives. Our thoughts:
- The cracks in our driveway must be repaired prior to sealcoating but repairing them in the heat of summer is a poor choice. Cracks are at their widest in the late fall after the driveway has cooled and repairing them at that time protects the driveway from winter water intrusion and freezing. And when the driveway warms and expands the following summer, the fall-filled cracks are likely to remain sealed.
- Sealcoating per se is best done the summer following crack repair once the driveway is warm (and because of expansion, the cracks remain tightly sealed).
- There is divided professional opinion on the value of sealcoating as a means of maximizing the useful live of a driveway, but it’s hard to envision that either view is predicated on a valid, controlled study. Sealcoat materials and application methods differ, and materials are sometimes diluted by unscrupulous providers to increase profits. Interestingly, Dick Leonard has determined that Edina does indeed sealcoat and is willing to share its knowledge and experience … with no marketing bias.
- The grey color of our driveway indicates that much of the fine black sand initially in the wearing course has been released. Untreated this will only get worse.
- The Board believes there is value to our owners in maintaining a driveway that is esthetically cared for and remains in favor of sealcoating. If you look at properties in the area, almost all driveways are seal coated. Are they all wrong?
Ted Schwarz
Property Manager
Multiventure Properties, Inc.
7400 Metro Blvd., Suite 380
Edina, MN 55439
office 952.920.9388 | fax 952.927.6164
direct 952.456.6506
www.multiventure.net – Click here to leave us a review!
Like us on Facebook
Richard or Margaret Leonard
Dick Leonard
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 7/12/18, Gene Olson <ge...@thinsoft.com> wrote:
Subject: [cahill-discussion] Re: Reasons for sealcoating cancellation
To: "Cahill Board" <bo...@cahill-of-edina.com>, "Cahill Discussion" <cahill-d...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2018, 11:19 AM
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Ted Schwarz
Roy Smith
First off, Gene, you should know that Ted did not 'write' the email message about sealcoat cancellation you attached ... I did. Ted simply distributed it and should not be criticized for its content or lack thereof.
In retrospect, the following points from that message seem pretty much OK:
- 1. and 2. speak to important timing issues
- 4. simply lays out a fact
- and 5. states the Board's belief that there is value to owners in aesthetically maintaining the driveway, and therefore remains in favor of sealcoating
Point 3. would have been more relevant if it said something like this:
- When you research 'sealcoating' you will find that the term is used to describe varying materials and processes, some designed to restore a heavily used surface and thereby increase its longevity, and others simply to protect against water incursion and/or maintain aesthetic attractiveness. It is the Board's opinion that, as a quality residential community, Cahill's driveway maintenance goals should be to protect against water incursion and maintain aesthetic attractiveness. Prior to the driveway 'Mill and Overlay' program scheduled for 2030 by Our Reserve Study, these goals can be achieved by ongoing crack repair and typical 'commercial' sealcoating* by a quality vendor. Once the ’Mill and Overlay' is done, Cahill has 3 to 5 years to plan future maintenance.
We spend thousands annually on maintaining the appearance of our lawn and our trees and our buildings, but you seem to take the position that nothing should be spent on the driveway unless it extends its useful life ... that appearance has no relevance. I've been a Cahill resident long enough (31 years) to know that there are - and will be - owners who agree and who disagree with your position. I am in the 'disagree' camp, and I think other Board members are also.
Just to put driveway sealcoating costs in perspective, prerequisite crack repair and, as you put it 'to paint it black', would cost about 8K or a bit less every 2 or 3 years. If 2, the cost per unit would be about $90 annually ... obviously less if the interval was 3 years (which providers quite typically recommend).
Our driveway is the first thing anyone entering the community sees ... and in a very real sense, it - and the islands - constitute our front yard. The appearance of our driveway is an important part of the overall attractiveness of our community. Personally (and as a Board member) I fully support keeping our driveway aesthetically as well as structurally maintained, just as I similarly support so maintaining our buildings and grounds. Why? Because I don't want to feel I'm living in a community where appearance is irrelevant, and financially, because I believe aesthetics are an important part of unit value preservation ... and that is a responsibility of the Board.
Thank you to those who have bothered to read this far. I do hope you will think about the kind of community you want.
*Interestingly, at the last Board meeting, Dick Leonard described an Edina sealcoating program that is a bit different and will be further considered.
Roy Smith
925-944-9631 (H)
612-210-1706 (M)
PS - I and other Board members do understand the difference between what Edina is doing and so-called commercial "sealcoating"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Gene Olson <ge...@thinsoft.com> wrote:
Dear Board Members,
Before you decide to paint the driveway next summer, there's something you
should understand.
What you call "sealcoating", and what the City of Edina calls
sealcoating are very different things. According to the Edina web
site:
Sealcoating is the surface application of an asphalt
emulsion followed by the placement of small graded aggregate. This coating is
wear-resistant and protects pavements from oxidation and the effects of
moisture. It puts a new wear surface on the pavement to protect the blacktop
and extend the life of the road.
https://edinamn.gov/347/Street-Repair
This process replaces worn down
asphalt with new similar material. You've seen this done on city streets
and industrial parking lots. Small rocks are laid on top of a thick
asphalt emulsion. Heavy equipment and traffic mash the rocks down into
the emulsion. Sticky little rocks fly everywhere. They get into
everything. Eventually, most of the rocks get embedded firmly and
permanently into the asphalt. It's necessary to clean up the ones that
don't.
This process saves money, because it increases the life of the wear coat.
Eventually the wear coat still has to be removed/replaced. A few weeks
ago, the city replaced the wear coat on Cahill Road in front of our community.
The commercial process called "sealcoating" is different. It
applies a petroleum paint-like material over an asphalt surface. It makes
the surface look new again. There could be some protective benefit, but
that is dubious. Mostly it's just black paint. Like paint it peels,
and has to be done again to cover up the peeling. Eventually it builds up
and looks ugly. You can leave it ugly, or you can remove it by replacing
the asphalt wear coat.
This process doesn't save money. It costs money.
According to Wikipedia:
Sealcoat or pavement sealer is a coating for asphalt-based
pavements. Sealcoating is marketed as a protective coating that extends the
life of asphalt pavements. There is not any independent research that proves
these claims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealcoat
Helen and I think the driveway looks
good the way it is. Several neighbors have approached me and said they
did too. Obviously, I didn't take a vote.
Homeowners should not be told that sealcoating will give them a more
durable driveway. Because it probably won't. It will give them
a black driveway. And it will cost more to do that. More now, more
later.
When homeowners understand that, and they still want to sealcoat the driveway,
then you should sealcoat the driveway. You should Paint It Black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg
Gene & Helen
On 07/11/18 17:16, Ted Schwarz wrote:
The Board decided to defer sealcoating as it became more fully aware of the importance of timing, and also to further consider sealcoat alternatives. Our thoughts:
1. The cracks in our driveway must be repaired prior to sealcoating but repairing them in the heat of summer is a poor choice. Cracks are at their widest in the late fall after the driveway has cooled and repairing them at that time protects the driveway from winter water intrusion and freezing. And when the driveway warms and expands the following summer, the fall-filled cracks are likely to remain sealed.
2. Sealcoating per se is best done the summer following crack repair once the driveway is warm (and because of expansion, the cracks remain tightly sealed).
3. There is divided professional opinion on the value of sealcoating as a means of maximizing the useful live of a driveway, but it’s hard to envision that either view is predicated on a valid, controlled study. Sealcoat materials and application methods differ, and materials are sometimes diluted by unscrupulous providers to increase profits. Interestingly, Dick Leonard has determined that Edina does indeed sealcoat and is willing to share its knowledge and experience … with no marketing bias.
4. The grey color of our driveway indicates that much of the fine black sand initially in the wearing course has been released. Untreated this will only get worse.
5. The Board believes there is value to our owners in maintaining a driveway that is aesthetically cared for and remains in favor of sealcoating. If you look at properties in the area, almost all driveways are seal coated. Are they wrong?
Ted Schwarz
Property Manager
Multiventure Properties, Inc.
7400 Metro Blvd., Suite 380
office 952.920.9388 | fax 952.927.6164
direct 952.456.6506
Like us on Facebook
Gene Olson
A very thoughtful response. You've cleared up the confusion.
In 2019, the Board will sealcoat the driveway to improve its appearance.
Durability considerations are secondary.
You've also quantified the short-term cost.
Thank you,
Gene
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