Plasma cutter

[hd]

We are looking into CNC plasma cutting tables. We've been dreaming of
building a nice CNC table for the art center for some time now. We've
been doing research off an on for a while, and found that there is a
good community of CNC table builders at the cnczone.com forums. There
are several project logs worth looking over to learn more about what
is involved. A build that I think would be a good model for what to
look for is at:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_plasma_waterjet_machines/42780-my_recently_finished_cnc_plasma.html

It incorporates many features that we should consider, such as a water
table and torch height control, in an elegant package using mostly off
the shelf components. The design seems very robust.

Let's start the conversation here. If all goes well with the grant
that went out today, we should have about $12,000 to work with.

[Joe]

Heather gave me a gentle nudge suggesting I work on the plasma cutter
project. Nudge accepted, I'm in. Has anyone else started already? I
am currently looking at the pictures of the cnczone project very
carefully. I figure step one is coming up with a detailed list of all
the parts and pieces we will need.

Joe

On Feb 7, 8:15 pm, hd <industrye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are looking into CNC plasma cutting tables. We've been dreaming of
> building a nice CNC table for the art center for some time now. We've
> been doing research off an on for a while, and found that there is a
> good community of CNC table builders at the cnczone.com forums. There
> are several project logs worth looking over to learn more about what
> is involved. A build that I think would be a good model for what to

> look for is at:http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_plasma_waterjet_machines/42780-my_r...

[Jeff Whaley]

We're having a meeting to start working on the CNC Plasma Cutter this Sat

Sat Mar 5 9-10AM at CAFAC

Here is planned agenda:

All - Introductions - skills and interests

Heather - Purpose - talk about the public art project that the plasma cutter is needed for, a little about enameling, a little about the kiln

All - Requirements - first pass at what is needed, when needed, budget, space available, ...  will include hard requirements/like to haves/maybe

All - Process - we should probably talk about how we are going to proceed with this project, buy vs build, field trips, expert input, who wants to do what, timeline, meetings,...

And if we have time: 

All - Options - first pass at what design options are, I think this will mostly mean splitting up research to gather for next meeting

Let me know if you have any thoughts on the agenda.  Looking forward to getting going on this.  If you get a chance, take a look at CNCZone, here is a project that seems along the lines of what would work for CAFAC.

Jeff

[Jeff Whaley]

CAFAC CNC Plasma Cutter – First Meeting 5 March 2011 9AM

Attendees:
Heather, Bret, Ryan, Roger, Mark, Jeff

Good first meeting, lots of enthusiasm.

Purpose
Heather discussed the history, current plans, artists involved and other information about the art project that the plasma cutter is a part of. (Heather, please post the presentations to this group.)    I took a few notes, more info in the presentations:

• Site is the bridge is at Olsen Memorial (Hwy 55) and Hwy 94.
  
• 2/3 of funding complete, grants written for balance, ~$500K project
  
• Starting this summer 2011, install art by summer 2012
  
• Plasma cutter budget - $11K including computer, electronics, software, structure, will work to get as much donated as possible (steel donations are likely)
  
• Base panels are 5/16” thick, not sure of the thickness of the panels that will be enameled.
  

Introductions and Skills
Mark – architect, lots of hands on hobbies, metal working, has license for 3-d cad
Ryan – welding fabricating, near end of civil engineering degree, worked with CNC plasma at MCTC
Brett – landscape architect, autocad
Roger – design and problem solving

Jeff - mechanical engineer, programming, electronics, never worked on a machine like this

Heather - welding, worked with CNC plasma at MCTC

Chris did not attend, but has experience with building machines like this and has offered assistance.

Requirements

General 

Fixed location in shop 

Size – 4x8' sheet capacity and clearance to load them

Limited speed -  not a production machine, improves safety

Torch height control - needed for good cut quality over large sheets that aren't perfectly flat

Accuracy not critical - not for high tolerance usage

Good looking - will be a centerpiece of the shop

Safety - generally err toward side of safety, lots of people will use the machine, many with limited experience

Fume control - probably with water table and hood

Safety zone - around the machine as others will be using shop and machine will be centrally located

UV protection

Robustness

Components that can handle some amount of misuse

"Last 10 years"

Shop proof computer

Easy maintenance, easy to clean

Not fussy to setup 

Easy to use

Well documented
Easy to use software, that is well documented

 

For Next Meeting
Brett and Heather – Shop layout
Mark – rough out design, for overall layout purpose
Jeff – Set next meeting ~ 2 weeks out – ask Chris to attend as we discuss design of machine (stepper vs servo, software?, linear slides/rails,)
Ryan – Specs for torch

All - research areas that interest you

[Jeff Whaley]

Next CAFAC CNC Plasma Cutter Meeting

I'm to proposing that we hold another CNC Plasma cutter meeting this week.  Here are 2 options:

7-9 Thurs March 17th

9-11 Sat Mar 19th

Last meeting attendees were: Heather, Bret, Ryan, Roger, Mark, Jeff

Others are welcome also.  

Minutes from last meeting and the actions are posted in this group.

Please let me know which dates you are available and I'll pick the one that the most people can attend.

Jeff

[gmgh...@comcast.net]

I've not been to a meeting yet.  I think Saturday AM

 would work best for me but Thursday PM might be fine.

 

-- Thanks -- Gary Hoover

[Bret Wieseler]

Saturday morning works best for me.

[Roger Karlson]

I have class @10 on Sat. But will cede to the rest of the group.
Roger

On Mar 13, 2011 6:00 PM, "Jeff Whaley" <jeffw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Next CAFAC CNC Plasma Cutter Meeting*

[Mark Helseth]

Either day works for me.

Mark

[Heather Doyle]

I'm open to both

h

My iPhone is responsible for any misspellings

[Jeff Whaley]

Saturday seems to be better for most, so next meeting is 9-11 Sat Mar 19th.  Looking forward to it.

Heather, can you put it on the calendar?

Jeff

[Heather Doyle]

It's on the calendar:)

--
Heather Doyle
INDUSTRYelle
www.industryelle.com
612-501-2213

Artistic Director
Chicago Avenue Fire Arts Center
www.cafac.org

"Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Let us use it before it is too late." Marie Beynon Ray

[Mark Helseth]

Jeff,

 

I not be able to make the Saturday meeting.  Last minute conflict.  Dang.

I’ll post the 3D images of the preliminary CNC Plasma for all to see.

 

Mark

 

[Jeff Whaley]

Mark,

Sorry to hear you can't make it could you do a conference call?

Jeff

[Mark Helseth]

I think so. I'll be out near Hutchinson and have a 9am appt. I should be able to join after that about 9:15-9:30. What number should call in on? Mark Sent from my Windows Phone

[Jeff Whaley]

CAFAC CNC Plasma Cutter – Meeting 19 March 2011 9AM 

Attendees: 
Heather, Bret, Roger, Mark (by phone), Jeff, Joe Kinney

We reviewed requirements from last meeting.  No changes.

We discussed the drawings that Mark sent for the frame.  Really liked the tapered legs.  Idea is to fab from sheet metal with bends (not welds) as much as possible.  Would prefer 2 legs per side (not 3) and a little beefier tubing to improve leveling.  Flanges that contact floor should be a larger and support in 2 directions (x/y).  View 1, View 2, View 3

We discussed the option of using a gantry kit for the rails, bearings, motor mounts, etc.  We looked at a mechanics set from Precision Plasma.  ~$3K for a 4x8' machine.  Includes all the hard to make mechanical stuff - rails, bearings, rack, gears, including z axis for torch height control.  Doesn't include motors and electronics, Precision Plasma recommends candCNC.  There was a consensus that purchasing the hard to fab and source mechanical parts would be a good idea.  We don't have a suitable milling machine to make the parts and there is a lot more that can go wrong if we design our own bearings/slides/gears.

Company website with gantries

We walked around the shop and talked about location and orientation.  The plasma cutter doesn't look that big compared to the space we have, but we need to plan ahead and try to think about the other machines, grinding booth,...  We are planning to bolt the plasma cutter to the floor.  Its moveable, but only with significant difficulty.

I started a spreadsheet with some info on a budget and links to drawing, CAM, machine control, and electronics packages.  

Heather is hoping we can get some money allocated before the grant is completed so we can get started on fabrication and not be too rushed when the grant is final.  $5K would allow purchase of the gantry and would cover getting the machine built except for motors, electronics, plasma cutter, software.

Actions

• CAD model of shop floor plan - Bret, Heather
  
• Contact Precision Plasma and find out more about it, find one we can visit, ... - Jeff (It appears that Precision Plasma is actually located in Mpls so this might actually work really well)
  
• Post next spreadsheet and other stuff shown at meeting on Google Docs - Jeff
  
• Research electronics options candCNC and others - Joe 
  

[Jeff Whaley]

I set up a Google Docs folder with the spreadsheet that includes the budget and other stuff I showed in the meeting yesterday.  I think I added the meeting attendees as editors so you can add files to this folder and edit the documents there.  Google Docs keeps a history of changes so don't worry about making changes its easy to go back and retrieve old versions.  The folder is publicly readable, but you must be on the list to edit.

Jeff

[Jeff Whaley]

I found some good pictures in a recent CNCZone post of a Precision Plasma based machine. It shows some details on the rails.  The bearing surfaces are steel which is bonded to the aluminum rail.

Precision Plasma and a distributor who handles them are based in Twin Cities (cool coincidence) so it should be easy to get a look at a machine.  I'll contact them next week.

Jeff

[Jeff Whaley]

Just talked to Matt at Plasmaland, a mail order cnc plasma company in Lindstrom, MN about 40 mi N of CAFAC.  They sell parts for plasma cutters including gantries from Precision Plasma and full systems.  He would be happy to talk to us.  They typically have a couple machines set up, but no promises.  Sounds like a really good resource.

I tentatively set a meeting at his shop on Sat April 2 at 11AM.  We could meet at CAFAC at 10 and carpool to Lindstrom.  Does this time and date work?

Jeff

[Mark Helseth]

Jeff, Nice contact! Way to go. Unfortunately, I cannot make the field trip. I will be on plane. Drat! Mark Sent from my Windows Phone

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:12 PM
To: cafac-volunteers-buildi...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Plasma cutter

Just talked to Matt at Plasmaland <http://www.plasmaland.com/>, a mail order

[Jeff Whaley]

Below is an email from Ron at Precision Plasma.  There is a link to some table plans and some interesting comments.  I sent Ron a copy of the requirements that we came up with at the first meeting.

Jeff

from Ron Chacich <ironm...@gmail.com> to Jeff Whaley <jeffw...@gmail.com> date Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:02 PM subject Re: Interested in gantry for cnc plasma cutter for Mpls arts center mailed-by gmail.com signed-by gmail.com

hide details 8:02 PM (13 hours ago)

Jeff,

We have many different table plans that we share with our customers.  They are located at 

http://chacich.com/ppllc/

Based on your description, you want a water table.  A water table will eliminate 95% of the smoke and dust.  You also stated that you want to weld up your own table, which is the same as 95% of our customers.  We very rarely sell a table with the kit, since most places that want one are capable of building the frame.

Yes, you definitely want torch height control.  I will make a recommendation for electronics that incorporates a high end digital torch height control that rivals $100K+ machines.

Here is how Precision Plasma LLC works.  We only sell gantry kits and tables.  There is a company in Texas who sells only the electronics,motors, and software kits.  They are made to bolt together to make up a complete package.  This concept saves customers thousands of dollars when building a table.  You do get unlimited technical for the electronics, which is what you need.  We support the mechanics, which most people don't require.  Most people are building a cnc table are mechanically inclined.

Costs:

Just to give you a ballpark, we have many different options that meet your criteria.  It just depends on your budget for the build.

Electronics are easy.  You will need a Bladerunner AIO 300-4 with Dragon cut digital torch height control for $1250.  This will give you the electronics package with digital torch height control and (4) 300 in-oz motors. (a 3 axis system requires 4 motors because it takes 2 to run our gantry)

You also have an option to purchase the kit with 620in-oz motors for $1428.  The table will perform exactly the same with either motor.  They are actually the same wattage motor.  3.5amps X 48volts = 168 watts.

We have a low cost 4x8 gantry kit for $2K and a standard gantry kit for $3K.  We also have a heavy duty 5x10 gantry kit for $5K.  We haven't offered the HD kit in a 4x8 kit because it would cost the virtually the same amount to build.  If you want a showpiece, I would seriously consider building a 5x10 or 5x8.  Here is why.  The HD version comes standard with belt reduction units, the cable tracks, and the upgraded screw in the Zaxis.  There are $1000 worth of upgrades from our standard kits.  The HD is made from 3x3 aluminum extrusion vs. 2x2 aluminum extrusion for the standard gantry.  The gear rack is 1/2" x 1/2" vs 1/4" x 1/4".  

There is your range for gantry kit pricing. $2K to $5K.

What plasma cutter are you planning on running with the table?  Machine torch or hand torch?

Take a look at the prints and it will give you an idea of what a table will require.  Also, you can see builds at:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/precision_plasma/

Your table would look like the 4x4 (except in a 4x8 version) or like the 5x10 HDB if you wanted to go heavy duty.

Best Regards,

Ron Chacich

[Joe Kinney]

The tentative day and time you proposed for a field trip work for me.

Joe

[Jeff Whaley]

I confirmed the field trip to Plasma-land this Sat.  I told Matt we'd be there about 11 AM.  Google maps says the trip will take 48 min from CAFAC, so I was thinking of meeting at 10 and carpooling.  Matt said there would be a couple machines set up, we'll be able to see light, medium and heavy duty gantries.  He won't be able to actually do plasma cutting (these are customer machines), but he'll be able to run the machines and draw with a sharpie.  I think this is a great opportunity to learn about CNC plasma cutters and help us get the right machine.  Bring your questions.  Please let me know if you are planning to attend.  

Jeff

[Bret Wieseler]

I won't be able to make it.

-Bret

[Joe Kinney]

I'll be there Sat. I am coming by bike assuming I'll be able to ride
with someone to Plasma-land.

Joe

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Bret Wieseler <br...@asymmetry.org> wrote:
> I won't be able to make it.
> -Bret
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Jeff Whaley <jeffw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

>> I confirmed the Which side of the river? Either is fine with me. Are you driving and will need to park somewhere?field trip to Plasma-land this Sat.  I told Matt we'd be

[r.wm.k...@gmail.com]

Just added the trip to the plasma cutter to the calender. I'll be there at 9:45-ish and can take one or two along.
Roger

[Heather Doyle]

Ryan and I are in as well.

[Gail Katz-James]

Sorry, everyone. I am just eavesdropping here. Have fun at Plasma cutter land!

Gail

[Troy Benjegerdes]

Any updates on this? 

I'd be interested in working on the software/electronics side, and working out some controls to match the power consumption of the cutter with a variable generation source (either solar panels, or a couple of people on bike generators). I keep imagining this as some kind of interactive performance art piece where the cutting stops if there are not enough people pedaling.

On Monday, February 7, 2011 8:15:08 PM UTC-6, hd wrote:

We are looking into CNC plasma cutting tables. We've been dreaming of
building a nice CNC table for the art center for some time now. We've
been doing research off an on for a while, and found that there is a
good community of CNC table builders at the cnczone.com forums. There
are several project logs worth looking over to learn more about what
is involved. A build that I think would be a good model for what to
look for is at:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_plasma_waterjet_machines/42780-my_recently_finished_cnc_plasma.html

It incorporates many features that we should consider, such as a water
table and torch height control, in an elegant package using mostly off
the shelf components. The design seems very robust.

Let's start the conversation here.  If all goes well with the grant
that went out today, we should have about $12,000 to work with.