Re: [caborico] Cr38 No16 Rudder Rebuild

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Jan 2, 2021, 1:53:54 PM1/2/21
Any chance of getting to see these photos. Don't seem to work?? Terry can you fix it??

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 cabo79 via caborico <> wrote:

404 error on the pictures anyone know the problem?
On Monday, December 7, 2020 Stephen Brady <> wrote:
Pics not showing  

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 7:31:59 PM UTC-5 Breck wrote:
Can't see pictures. Would like to.
On Monday, April 20, 2020 Ed Drapeau <> wrote:
Hi All.
I am rebuilding a bad rudder.  It has never been loose but has dripped water during storage for years.
I hope these photos help answer questions about the older 38 rudders.

Saw cut port side skin.
Opened up.
Removed some foam.
Rusty frame plate and doomed welds.
New 304 plate.
Frame fastened in starboard shell.
Hi Bond pour foam in shell/ frame combo.
That's it so far...
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Jan 9, 2021, 9:13:00 AM1/9/21

Nice work. I would still like to see the rudder rebuild pics. Can you post them direct to Cabo Rico Facebook page?

On Monday, December 14, 2020 pequ... <> wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I cannot see the pics either, but maybe I can help.  Attached is a link to a folder in my Google Drive with some pics and videos

(These pics will be available for just a few days, and then will be removed)

In the order presented.. a little story first.. and then I'll speak to the rudder issue.

The first pics and movies are when I did the survey and inspection in Hilton Head.   The video shows the number of osmosis blisters.  We could not determine what the problem was or why they were so prevalent.  This was a wild card, along with the motor, which I surveyed as well.  It was running hot, and there was water in the oil; not a good sign.

Bob B. who purchased a Cabo Rico years ago, gave me great advice.   He said, Pierre, don't be afraid.  It's worth the work  Buy the boat.

I discounted the price for the what I thought it would cost me (BIG SPREADSHEET).  Just before shipping, a hurricane was zeroing in on Hilton Head.   It survived and she shipped with Andrews Trucking in Pic 1379.  She arrived with the first snow in November 2018 at Ed's Boat Repair (Ed Preszcator).  

Now Ed is probably one of about five remaining old glass artisans in Ontario Canada.   He is in his mid seventies and after retiring, set up his own workshop on his property outside of Ailsa Craig, Ontario.   He works 7 days a week, 16 hour days.  No way I can keep up with him physically.

He has so much knowledge and experience, he builds and assembles boats from scratch.   He is working on his own 42 footer.    He does not advertise.  Referrals only.  And before you start thinking about calling him, bear in mind, he is booked through Spring 2022.

I only had to wait a year, for him to start on mine.  We started with soda blast (1811, 1813) and realized it was not enough to take off the blisters.  We did a 1/4" peel (1913).  He used a professional that he knows from Windsor.  He said that if its not done right, then the amount of extra work to grind and glass would be very costly.   1913 shows the smooth peel that was done that saved me a ton of money and minimized the reglass work for Ed.   

In September 2019, she was inside for the winter.   2285 and 2292 show where Ed still had to drill out the deepest blisters and refill with glass.    She sat indoors drying out, and Ed didn't start reglassing until after the water meter read dry.  This took months and months, including the rudder.

While the boat was sitting there, Ed got me started on the brightwork.  Yes, Ed refuses to do woodwork.  It takes too long and its not cost effective for him to do it.  

As Ed said, "you bought the f'n boat.  Learn to love it" (i.e. working on the wood).   He was right... and OMG the work.  The first few months was spent just stripping off the varnish.   You can see in the first videos how dark the teak was.   The first student helper gave up after four days.   I realized that it was up to me and every Saturday I drove the four hour round trip from Toronto to Ailsa Craig just to do 5 or 6 hours work..   By the summer of 2020 it was all stripped and sanded 2506. 

Critical decision time!   Varnish or do something else!

Everyone I spoke with said that varnish doesn't stay on in colder climates.   Any water on the teak freezes and lifts the varnish.   OUCH.   I just can't image stripping the darn varnish every year, because you cannot do it in patches.  

Enter Teak Life.  Why Teak Life?  Ed knows the owner..  he really does have a passion for teak.   And he wanted to find a way to keep teak looking great without all the work, so he played and played with a formula that it seems even the super yachts are buying now.

Price was right.  He said here's a free quart of the Teak Life UV and a quart of the Teak Life UV Top Coat.   He said put down one coat, and before it gets dry put down a second coat.  (To me that's like one coat just a a few more strokes of the paint brush).  He said don't do more.  Every coat you put down will make it darker.    

What about between coats?  He said, don't sand, just use Scotchbrite pads, wipe clean and apply the Top Coat.

OMG... Absolutely beautiful.  Pics attached.  

What he didn't tell me was that 2/3 of a quart was enough for the whole damn boat twice!  Holy crap.  Done!  Can't beat the price.

It absorbs in.   Clean warm finish.   And anytime I want to put down another coat, I just scotchbrite and paint.   Voila.  

I'm doing a test.  She's back in yard now; not covered, and I'm fully exposing her to the winter elements to see how the teak looks in the Spring.  Risky, but hey, I might as well "learn to love it".  

Everything the owner said has proven to be true.  I suspect I won't have to do anything in the Spring before splash.  (As an aside I was working on the anchor hatches, and attach are some before and after sanding pics (not yet ready for the Teak Life).  Starting to love it.

Oh.. the motor (2267 and 2513).   Cost to refurbish the motor was CAD 12k (professionally), and a new transmission would be another $4k.   Bob B. said don't do it.  Get a new one.   He replaced his trani twice and said the westerbeke trani doesn't do the job.  He bought a Beta 43 and sailed the Med and Caribbean for 8 years.   Solid as rock.   Although horsepower rating was lower than his original Westerbeke, he said the power curve actually outperformed the original Westerbeke.

Good enough for me.  Beta needed to import a motor for the Toronto Boat Show.   I got another 12% off!  And it comes with the transmission!  Yahooo!  All installed for about CAD 22k.

Went down to boat show... and I didn't introduce myself.  First words out of my mouth were, why isn't the motor red?   Who's the crazy fool who would want a white engine?   He started explaining... and before he got too far into it, I said, oh by the way, I'm Pierre.   The Beta Rep just started laughing...  Second picture is engine installed.  White is a free option from Beta.   It's amazing how light shines off of the white;  it really improves your ability to see everything when working on the engine with a lamp.

We replaced all hoses and a lot of wiring - I would have been lost without Ed being a newbie to sailing.   The toilet was an electric flush.  Can you imagine being in the middle of the Atlantic without any power and you can't flush?  2546 is my new toilet.  2545 my new water heater.   The list goes on and on.. from no fuse on the windlass to B&G chartplotter.

Ed painted her up.   2673.   Down on the right side, you can see the gloss?...  You should see her in the sun!

And everything's been done right.  Hull was reglassed even though it was still thick after the peel.  A proper non-penetration's layer was put on to protect the glass from absorbing salt water (this was never done and that's why there were so many blisters).   Still needs anti fouling.   Ed told me I better learn to love that too.  I guess I do that in the Spring.

And of course.. the rudder.

I sat down with Ed yesterday and said here's the question from the Cabo Rico Group.. what do you think?

Here's what Ed said (I should have taken a video).

First, it is normal for all rudders to leak  Usually, you don't have to worry about it, unless there are visible cracks or gaps between the rudder pin and the glass.

He said, you see, it's impossible to stop a rudder from leaking because glass and steel inherently don't bond.  The inside of a rudder is usually foam, otherwise it would be too heavy.   What does your buddy say?   I said let's call him.

Ring ring.. Hey Fraser quick question (yes, that Fraser Smith, owner and president of Cabo Rico yachts).  What's in the rudder?   Hey Pierre, what year is your boat?  (1987, one year before he took over operations in Costa Rica).  It's probably Core 10 steel frame with foam.  The glass is laid in a mold.   Thanks Fraser...

Ed:   So there is no way to prevent water from leaking in at the bottom and top, the only real issue is freezing in colder climates.   But in the case of Cabo Rico's there so much glass, it's unlikely to crack.     Sure enough, mine didn't crack last year, and it froze.

Pierre;  so what do you do?

Ed:  Well on thinner rudders, you drill three holes in the bottom of the rudder on haul out.   The foam goes within about 3 inches of the bottom.   If you hit the foam, the water will leak out.  In the Spring, you epoxy the holes, and put it back in the water.  Repeat in the fall..    But honestly, forget about it.  Just look at the rudder.   Do you have cracks and gaps?  Where is the water leaking from?  (Aside.. mine was leaking from blisters).   If you don't have crack or gap problems, let it leak and don't worry about it.   

Pic 1811 shows my rudder after the soda blast.  The rudder pin through the hull was actually leaking.   Yes water in the boat was seeping down the pin onto the top of the rudder.  That means water can also go the other way, and leak into the boat when in the water.. Ed fixed that!  But again, Ed explained that its not a perfect fix;  never is because glass does not bond with steel.

Well, I guess I've spilled enough about my boat.   Pride of ownership is starting to make me into a monster.

On final comment.  Bob B. was right.  I am on budget.   I could sell this puppy tomorrow and I would break even.  She is almost good to go;  all the important systems are new.   Everything works (I think).  I'll know more when she goes in next year.

Special thanks Ed, Fraser and Bob for holding my newbie hand and making my first sailboat a positive experience.

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