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well, the winches will be far stronger than the cleats, as a matter of course. but i really think you want to read
Storm Tactics Handbook, 3rd Edition by lin and larry parody at https://www.westmarine.com/buy/paradise-cay--storm-tactics-handbook-3rd-edition--10597730?cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-GSC%2520-%2520Product%2520Type-_-10597730&product_id=10597730&adpos=1o2&creative=108421552204&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CJTMjeWHu9QCFUE9gQod6dMIDg for 6 bucks.
i bought a drogue before i read it, and so was invested to disagree. their reasoning and data are hard to find fault. if you were in a j42 or a j109, i would agree with a drogue, but they make a good argument against in even that context. in a cabo rico, it seems from their perspective there is absolutely no question.
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Hey guys, I'd like to speak with (and quite possibly hire for a few small projects) a designer or engineer who was involved in building the CRs, or perhaps someone similarly capable who might have some knowledge of the vessels.Ideally I am wanting to learn the design tolerances of certain things, like forces at which the attachment of winches and cleats on the vessel will fail. This will help me figure out things like, what's the best tensile strength for a main halyard that will handle the expected loads under sail and yet part before ripping the winch off the vessel, and whether or not the aft cleats will be sufficient attachment points for a Jordan series drogue.
Icouple engineering bones in my body. :-)
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.
Hey guys, I'd like to speak with (and quite possibly hire for a few small projects) a designer or engineer who was involved in building the CRs, or perhaps someone similarly capable who might have some knowledge of the vessels.Ideally I am wanting to learn the design tolerances of certain things, like forces at which the attachment of winches and cleats on the vessel will fail. This will help me figure out things like, what's the best tensile strength for a main halyard that will handle the expected loads under sail and yet part before ripping the winch off the vessel, and whether or not the aft cleats will be sufficient attachment points for a Jordan series drogue.
I have a couple engineering bones in my body. :-)
Anyways, I know that sadly Mr. Crealock is no longer with us. Does anyone here have any thoughts on how I might find such an individual?Thanks so much for your help.ChuckCR34 hull #34San Rafael, CA
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Great stuff, thank you both for the input!Alex - Thanks for the email address AND pointing me to Fatty. I'll definitely be checking out his books. So yes, rope manufacturers have their recommendations based on vessel length. For a given diameter of rope, there's all kinds of materials (and associated tensile strengths) to choose from. But I don't necessarily want the absolute strongest, since the cabintop halyard winch could then be the failure point. I want to know how to know what's right for my vessel. It's perhaps overkill, though the engineer in me will feel warm and fuzzy knowing I've "run the numbers." :-)Ron - It's quite possible the jib sheet winches are strong enough for the loads involved. In that case I'd still like to have done my homework and somewhat methodically validated that assumption. Also, if it's at all practical, my preference would be to have the series drogue "permanently" attached during passages so that in can be deployed as quickly and easily as possible, since by definition it's going to be needed in challenging conditions.Here's some additional interesting reading for folks who are so inclined:
- USCG Report No. CG-D-20-87: Investigation of the Use of Drogues to Improve the Safety of Sailing Yachts by Carol L. Hervey and Donald J. Jordan: http://www.oceanbrake.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/CG-D-20-87.pdf
- Structural Requirements for Series Drogue Attachments by Donald J. Jordan: http://seriesdrogue.com/designersnotes/designersnotes2.html
- Victor Shane's Drage Device Database: http://dragdevicedb.com - a collection of reports of uses of drag devices (drogues, sea anchors, trailing warps, etc.) on various vessels
- Computational Fluid Dynamic Study of Heaving-to by David Hickerson: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.977.2267&rep=rep1&type=pdf - research using simulation on the effect of hull and keel on waves; doesn't cover breaking waves but is an encouraging start into formal analysis
Best,Chuck