Cockpit Sail handling?

[Leslie]

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of
their Cabo Rico, either 34, 36 or 38? If you do, I would love to know
if you modified how halyards run, directing them to the cockpit or if
your vessel was made that way?

On Tango, we have the opening in the port side of the cockpit coaming
that accommodates the main sheet and the traveler control lines but I
don't think there is room for halyards through this small opening. We
also have the main and stay sail halyards on the starboard side of the
mast.

It would seem we would need to take a chain saw to the forward
coaming, starboard side to let lines come through to the cockpit but I
hesitate to go to that extreme. We do have the mast "grannie walkers"
to ease work at the mast but the idea of being able to raise sails
from the security of the cockpit sounds like an attractive
capability. If anyone has run halyards around to the cockpit, I would
love to know how you accomplished this.

with thanks and kind regards,

Leslie
sv Tango, CR 34

[Leslie]

[Alan Gluyas]

Hi Leslie

On Brite Star (CR38) we have the port side slot in the coaming for the
mainsheet halyard, to its own winch on the port side of the companionway.

I have just (last weekend) added a second Lewmar 40ST on the stbd side of
the companionway to handle the staysail sheet from the (new) staysail sheet
tracks on the cabin top either side of the mast, replacing the club boom,
which was self tacking.

I looked at cutting into the coaming on the stbd side of the companionway
but there was no point, as there is a hatch just forward of the coaming
(over the nav desk). I have mounted a bullseye fairlead on top of the
coaming and I will have the new dodger made with a hole to line up with the
fairlead. In any case, the sheet from the staysail track clears the acrylic
top of the hatch by scant millimetres.

I have not worked out how I will handle the port sheet - the options are to
bring the sheet to the new stbd winch or share the mainsheet winch. It will
become obvious with use. I will think of something.

We reef the main from the mast. On our last sailboat, a Catalina, we had all
the control lines back into the cockpit but if we did this on Brite Star I
don't know where we would put all the lines. There is also not the width of
cockpit in the 34 and 38 foot Cabo Rico's and don't think the system would
work very well. I could be wrong.

I also don't think very much of the idea of going forward to the mast, with
the boat heeled at 30 degrees in 40 knots of wind.

Time for a new boat? Buy a leather armchair and a good sailing book and stay
home? No easy solution!

Cheers

Alan

"Brite Star" Cabo Rico 38 #82
Mandurah Western Australia

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I have an older boat #19 and it does not have a coaming around the cockpit hatch so no problem running the lines to the cockpit.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

[ldcbarker]

Leslie,

We have the main halyard and main sheet  coming through the port side. i have looked at this a number of times and the biggest issue is are the cutting of the combing  but also routing around the hatch over the quarter birth. I think the combing issue could be solved by drilling holes and inserting tubes. on the starboard side. I have not worked this out all the way out and found tubing yet due to the hatch.

Larry

 

 

 

In a message dated 10/15/10 01:08:01 Eastern Daylight Time, kb3...@gmail.com writes:

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of
their Cabo Rico, either 34, 36 or 38?  If you do, I would love to know
if you modified how halyards run, directing them to the cockpit or if
your vessel was made that way?

On Tango, we have the opening in the port side of the cockpit coaming
that accommodates the main sheet and the traveler control lines but I
don't think there is room for halyards through this small opening.  We
also have the main and stay sail halyards on the starboard side of the
mast.

It would seem we would need to take a chain saw to the forward
coaming, starboard side to let lines come through to the cockpit but I
hesitate to go to that extreme.  We do have the mast "grannie walkers"
to ease work at the mast but the idea of being able to raise sails
from the security of the cockpit sounds like an attractive

capability.  If anyone has run halyards arou nd to the cockpit, I would

love to know how you accomplished this.

with thanks and kind regards,

Leslie
sv Tango, CR 34

[Sharon Isikoff]

Lollipop was built with the main halyard led to the cockpit thru an opening in the starboard side coaming. The truth is in 20 years we might have used it that way once or twice. It is far easier to raise the main from the mast as it is a straight shot with no pulley to change direction and no hatch interfering. I wouldn't bother to change it. Sharon

[Nick Coffman]

Leslie,
I have a 38 with the following lines run through the coaming: staysail sheets (I have a free footed staysail), # 1 & # 2 reefing lines, mainsheet, boom vang, mainsheet traveler, and main halyard, for a total of 9 lines. Both the headsail and staysail are on Profurlers so the halyards tie off on the mast. If they weren't I probably could have routed them through the coaming by having a 4 line rope clutch added on the port side instead of the 3 line one to accommodate one of the halyards. The starboard side has a 4 line clutch so I could have easily switched out one of the lines to add the 3rd halyard. I think my layout is similar to the 42's. I have pictures of the layout if you would like to see them.

Nick

[Thierry Danz]

Leslie,

 

I have strong opinions about this subject J.  Keep in mind that I single-hand a lot, and that if my wife is onboard as crew, I do not ask her to come on deck when she is off-watch at night, unless absolutely necessary. I alert her that I have to leave the cockpit for deck-work, but only ask her to come on deck if it cannot be avoided. 

 

On my 42 I have the main sheet, boomvang, main outhaul (I have a loose-footed mainsail), topping lift and mainsail track control lines led aft.  Six lines in total.  Jib and staysail sheets are led to dedicated winches on the cockpit coamings, in the traditional way. Normally, as designed, also the main halyard and reefing lines would be led to the cockpit.  I had a boat once (many years ago), with the main halyard led aft, and I made a sacred oath never to get this setup again.  For various reasons.  One: You introduce a lot of friction in the system with all these extra turning blocks.  Two:  With only one winch either side of the companion way you need a huge number of clutches.  It is so easy, especially in the dark, and when you’re tired after a long watch, to make a mistake and release the wrong clutch when switching from one function to another.  Three:  When raising the main from the cockpit, with a dodger and/or bimini blocking your view (and perhaps, perish the thought, working from inside a full cockpit enclosure), you will not be able to watch the main going up, and prevent snafus, or damage.  (That’s also the reason why I have no electric winches.)  Four: When something goes wrong, it almost always needs to be fixed from the mast, and then you have to go forward anyway.  You may end up making several trips back-and-forth betweeen the mast and the cockpit, or you have to get the off-watch crew on deck.  Five: Especially with single-line reefing you will not be able to set a proper reef.  You really don’t want a baggy mainsail when the wind goes over 20k.

 

So, when I ordered Curlew in 2002, I left the mainhalyard and the reefing control lines at the mast.  I have not regretted it since.  Under normal conditions I can raise the main by hand almost to the first reef point, and then use the mast mounted winch to raise the last feet or two.  I have full view off the main and the mast, and know immediately if something is wrong.  Same with reefing.  It really does not take that much time to put in a reef.  I have a reefing winch on the mast below the goose-neck, and clutches for three reefs in the boom.  I have full view of the main and can control the tension on the new foot much better than from the cockpit.  Granted, deck-work on my heavy 42 is easier than on some of my previous smaller and lighter boats.  The work platform is bigger, and the motion less jumpy.  And if things really start bouncing, you can always heave-to when you need to put in that second reef.  You won’t believe the difference in motion that makes.

 

That’s my two cents.  I hope I did not offend anybody J!

 

Thierry Danz

CR 42 # 12 CURLEW

Baltimore, MD

www.sailblogs.com/member/curlew

 

 

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:08
To: caborico
Subject: [caborico] Cockpit Sail handling?

 

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of

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[Leslie Owen]

Great Ideas!  I knew there would be with this group. 

Larry, your idea of the coam-tunnel sounds really interesting.  Alan, I need to find a picture of a bullseye fairlead cause I do not know exactly what that looks like but that sounds very logical.  For me it is easy to modify my dodger.  That was my project for my vessel this year.  Made all new canvas, including a stack pack.  And Breck, you vessel has no coaming?  I had no idea that the older vessels did not have that structure.  Do you just attach the dodger down to the deck?

We have our sheet for our staysail directed through blocks along the port lifeline stantions and we still have our self tending club.  Our hatch over the galley is outboard and forward of the coaming and does not conflict with the sheets for the main.  The hatch over the aft cabin is aft of the coaming and appears to offer a small area that could carry a halyard to hoist the main.  The issue of no space for a winch is the big concern.  A double halyard stop fitting would certainly fit. 

Certainly modern vessels have a clever way to run all those lines over the coach roof under fiberglass shields so the deck does not look like a spider's web of line.  I would not give up the security of the sailing ability of the Cabo Rico for the tidy appearance of one of those deck systems.  I also worry that it become more difficult to pull up that halyard when it makes all those turns????  Ah well.  Something to ponder as the cold weather comes upon us.

Thanks for the input!!

with kind regards,

Leslie

sv Tango
CR 34

[Leslie Owen]

Thierry and Sharon, thanks for your thoughtful responses.  You are confirming my concern for increased drag as line is brought aft.  I always go forward to haul up sails and these ideas help me formulate if I want to continue to do the same.  Thierry your thoughts about issues that can arise when raising sails that may not be totally visible, or may not be that easy to reverse with lines fed aft is well taken.  There is something about "Murphy's Law"......if it can go wrong, it will.....  I hear you, Man.

Thanks,

Leslie

[Nick Coffman]

Running the main halyard into the cockpit certainly does add to the friction as does any change of direction.  I upgraded the winch size in the cockpit to help facilitate raising the main. I have winches on the mast and could easily switch the halyard back, but haven't felt much of a need yet, although I must must admit I've considered it a few times when the inevitable snafus occurred. 

I instruct crew that when they're sheeting in a line and encounter more than normal resistance don't try to force it since something is probably snagged, luckily it has worked thus far in avoiding damage. It's also the same reason why I didn't opt for electric winches (besides that's what the crew is for). I'm generally at the helm when the main goes up so watching for snags isn't much of an issue. 

The reefing lines led aft initially facilitate getting the main down quickly but as you stated, to set a proper reef you need to go up on deck. 

The biggest advantage I like of having the main halyard led to the cockpit is being able to douse the main quickly especially having lazy jacks. I generally have crew (on a regular basis) that have very little boating experience, let alone sailing experience. Teaching them to douse the main in a hurry and being able to do so without leaving the cockpit especially in less than ideal conditions seems easier for them to handle. In a man overboard situation this outweighed the advantages of raising the main from the mast winch. Having inexperienced crew on a regular basis and trying to teach them how to get back to a man overboard while under sail power reliably and consistently is a tough skill set for them to learn. Needless to say, dousing the sails and firing up the engine is more practical to teach when time is limited. Perhaps a minor detail but one with significant consequence.  If I had the same crew on a regular basis I would probably set the lines up a little differently.

I suppose everyones particular sailing situation is going to dictate how they ultimately set up their boat. The nice part about this forum is it eliminates a lot of needless trial and error.   

Nick

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

FWIW I've been happy working at the mast for halyards and reefing.  I don't have a mainsail track system, so dousing often means having to pull down on the luff anyway.  When shorthanded, I douse or reef early if I can.  I have been caught with my pants down (or sails up, as the case may be) occasionally though.

Y

[Nick Coffman]

Who hasn't been caught with their pant's down? It even happened to a former president...oops, wrong forum!

[James Williams]

The main halyard on my CR 36 is led back and through the coaming to the cockpit on the starboard side.  Additionally, the reef lines are led back as well, one on the port, one on the starboard, along with the mainsheet, outhaul, and two traveler lines.  This is the way it came from the factory.

James Williams
s/v Alizee, CR 36 (2001)

[Nick Coffman]

Mine are run the same way from the factory with the exception of the out haul, I have the boom vang  running into to the cockpit instead. It's an easy switch to change them though, since the angle of the lines through  the block aren't too radical.  I've found that having the reefing lines running to the cockpit adds some additional friction when raising the main. I've considered moving them to the mast along with the main halyard  as Thierry did, it would probably simplify the process.  For the time being, I usually let out a few feet of the reefing lines and tuck them into the mainsail once it's flaked which makes raising the main a lot easier. The only drawback so far is that you have to watch that the extra length of reefing line doesn't fallout and snag on something. 

NC

s/v RONIN, CR38 #190

[Cab...@aol.com]

My two cents. I run the main halyard to a cockpit winch, also the double line reefing lines. Yes, lots of clutches. If I have more than me on board the other person will pull down on the halyard from the mast and I will pull it in at the cockpit, finishing it off with the winch in the cockpit. When alone I pull the main up and reef in the cockpit. I have not had a problem with this set up. I do use Harken mast tracks and ball rollers.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 10/15/2010 10:02:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, thierr...@earthlink.net writes:

Leslie,

 

I have strong opinions about this subject J.  Keep in mind that I single-hand a lot, and that if my wife is onboard as crew, I do not ask her to come on deck when she is off-watch at night, unless absolutely necessary. I alert her that I have to leave the cockpit for deck-work, but only ask her to come on deck if it cannot be avoided. 

 

On my 42 I have the main sheet, boomvang, main outhaul (I have a loose-footed mainsail), topping lift and mainsail track control lines led aft.  Six lines in total.  Jib and staysail sheets are led to dedicated winches on the cockpit coamings, in the traditional way. Normally, as designed, also the main halyard and reefing lines would be led to the cockpit.  I had a boat once (many years ago), with the main halyard led aft, and I made a sacred oath never to get this setup again.  For various reasons.  One: You introduce a lot of friction in the system with all these extra turning blocks.  Two:  With only one winch either side of the companion way you need a huge number of clutches.  It is so easy, especially in the dark, and when you’re tired after a long watch, to make a mistake and release the wrong clutch when switching from one function to another.  Three:  When raising the main from the cockpit, with a dodger and/or bimini blocking your view (and perhaps, perish the thought, working from inside a full cockpit enclosure), you will not be able to watch the main going up, and prevent snafus, or damage.  (That’s also the reason why I have no electric winches.)  Four: When something goes wrong, it almost always needs to be fixed from the mast, and then you have to go forward anyway.  You may end up making several trips back-and-forth betweeen the mast and the cockpit, or you have to get the off-watch crew on deck.  Five: Especially with single-line reefing you will not be able to set a proper reef.  You really don’t want a baggy mainsail when the wind goes over 20k.

 

So, when I ordered Curlew in 2002, I left the mainhalyard and the reefing control lines at the mast.  I have not regretted it since.  Under normal conditions I can raise the main by hand almost to the first reef point, and then use the mast mounted winch to raise the last feet or two.  I have full view off the main and the mast, and know immediately if something is wrong.  Same with reefing.  It really does not take that much time to put in a reef.  I have a reefing winch on the mast below the goose-neck, and clutches for three reefs in the boom.  I have full view of the main and can control the tension on the new foot much better than from the cockpit.  Granted, deck-work on my heavy 42 is easier than on some of my previous smaller and lighter boats.  The work platform is bigger, and the motion less jumpy.  And if things really start bouncing, you can always heave-to when you need to put in that second reef.  You won’t believe the difference in motion that makes.

 

That’s my two cents.  I hope I did not offend anybody J!

 

Thierry Danz

CR 42 # 12 CURLEW

Baltimore, MD

www.sailblogs.com/member/curlew

 

 

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:08
To: caborico
Subject: [caborico] Cockpit Sail handling?

 

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of

their Cabo Rico, either 34, 36 or 38?  If you do, I would love to know
if you modified how halyards run, directing them to the cockpit or if
your vessel was made that way?

On Tango, we have the opening in the port side of the cockpit coaming
that accommodates the main sheet and the traveler control lines but I
don't think there is room for halyards through this small opening.  We
also have the main and stay sail halyards on the starboard side of the
mast.

It would seem we would need to take a chain saw to the forward
coaming, starboard side to let lines come through to the cockpit but I
hesitate to go to that extreme.  We do have the mast "grannie walkers"
to ease work at the mast but the idea of being able to raise sails
from the security of the cockpit sounds like an attractive
capability.  If anyone has run halyards around to the cockpit, I would
love to know how you accomplished this.

with thanks and kind regards,

Leslie
sv Tango, CR 34

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[Scott Colver]

Wow, my 1985 Hull #99 has only the mainsheet running through the slot in the portside cockpit coming opening to a winch on the cabin top. The genoa sheets are led aft obviously as is the furling line and that's it.  My mast area is quite the display with two reefing lines, main and staysail halyard, spare halyard, staysail reefing line, outhaul line, etc.  I am currently re configuring where to hang everything when underway and at the dock to neaten up the area.  I've been up on deck reefing a couple weeks ago in about 25knots of wind and it wasn't fun and of course I got caught in building wind and waves and stayed lazily in the cockpit far too long.  --- On Mon, 10/18/10, Cab...@aol.com <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:

From: Cab...@aol.com <Cab...@aol.com> Subject: Re: [caborico] Cockpit Sail handling? To: cabo...@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 2:13 AM My two cents. I run the main halyard to a cockpit winch, also the double line reefing lines. Yes, lots of clutches. If I have more than me on board the other person will pull down on the halyard from the mast and I will pull it in at the cockpit, finishing it off with the winch in the cockpit. When alone I pull the main up and reef in the cockpit. I have not had a problem with this set up. I do use Harken mast tracks and ball rollers.   Breck Caine CR 38 #19   In a message dated 10/15/2010 10:02:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, thierr...@earthlink.net writes: Leslie,

I have strong opinions about this subject J.  Keep in mind that I single-hand a lot, and that if my wife is onboard as crew, I do not ask her to come on deck when she is off-watch at night, unless absolutely necessary. I alert her that I have to leave the cockpit for deck-work, but only ask her to come on deck if it cannot be avoided.

On my 42 I have the main sheet, boomvang, main outhaul (I have a loose-footed mainsail), topping lift and mainsail track control lines led aft.  Six lines in total.  Jib and staysail sheets are led to dedicated winches on the cockpit coamings, in the traditional way. Normally, as designed, also the main halyard and reefing lines would be led to the cockpit.  I had a boat once (many years ago), with the main halyard led aft, and I made a sacred oath never to get this setup again.  For various reasons.  One: You introduce a lot of friction in the system with all these extra turning blocks.  Two:  With only one winch either side of the companion way you need a huge number of clutches.  It is so easy, especially in the dark, and when you’re tired after a long watch, to make a mistake and release the wrong clutch when switching from one function to another.  Three:  When raising the main from the cockpit, with a dodger and/or bimini blocking your view (and perhaps, perish the thought, working from inside a full cockpit enclosure), you will not be able to watch the main going up, and prevent snafus, or damage.  (That’s also the reason why I have no electric winches.)  Four: When something goes wrong, it almost always needs to be fixed from the mast, and then you have to go forward anyway.  You may end up making several trips back-and-forth betweeen the mast and the cockpit, or you have to get the off-watch crew on deck.  Five: Especially with single-line reefing you will not be able to set a proper reef.  You really don’t want a baggy mainsail when the wind goes over 20k.

So, when I ordered Curlew in 2002, I left the mainhalyard and the reefing control lines at the mast.  I have not regretted it since.  Under normal conditions I can raise the main by hand almost to the first reef point, and then use the mast mounted winch to raise the last feet or two.  I have full view off the main and the mast, and know immediately if something is wrong.  Same with reefing.  It really does not take that much time to put in a reef.  I have a reefing winch on the mast below the goose-neck, and clutches for three reefs in the boom.  I have full view of the main and can control the tension on the new foot much better than from the cockpit.  Granted, deck-work on my heavy 42 is easier than on some of my previous smaller and lighter boats.  The work platform is bigger, and the motion less jumpy.  And if things really start bouncing, you can always heave-to when you need to put in that second reef.  You won’t believe the difference in motion that makes.

That’s my two cents.  I hope I did not offend anybody J!

Thierry Danz

CR 42 # 12 CURLEW

Baltimore, MD www.sailblogs.com/member/curlew

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto: cabo...@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Leslie Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:08 To: caborico Subject: [caborico] Cockpit Sail handling?

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of

their Cabo Rico , either 34, 36 or 38?  If you do, I would love to know

[Cab...@aol.com]

I had the same problem before I installed the Harken Main track. Had to go to the mast to pull down the main and to reef. Hard work when the wind is up and your trying to maintain some speed and reef in heavy seas. Anyway I found it intolerable, especially when I was single handed. Think of doing it at night.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 10/15/2010 1:40:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cr3...@msn.com writes:

Who hasn't been caught with their pant's down? It even happened to a former president...oops, wrong forum!

On Oct 15, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis wrote:

FWIW I've been happy working at the mast for halyards and reefing.  I don't have a mainsail track system, so dousing often means having to pull down on the luff anyway.  When shorthanded, I douse or reef early if I can.  I have been caught with my pants down (or sails up, as the case may be) occasionally though.

Y

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Nick Coffman <cr3...@msn.com> wrote:

Running the main halyard into the cockpit certainly does add to the friction as does any change of direction.  I upgraded the winch size in the cockpit to help facilitate raising the main. I have winches on the mast and could easily switch the halyard back, but haven't felt much of a need yet, although I must must admit I've considered it a few times when the inevitable snafus occurred. 

I instruct crew that when they're sheeting in a line and encounter more than normal resistance don't try to force it since something is probably snagged, luckily it has worked thus far in avoiding damage. It's also the same reason why I didn't opt for electric winches (besides that's what the crew is for). I'm generally at the helm when the main goes up so watching for snags isn't much of an issue. 

The reefing lines led aft initially facilitate getting the main down quickly but as you stated, to set a proper reef you need to go up on deck. 

The biggest advantage I like of having the main halyard led to the cockpit is being able to douse the main quickly especially having lazy jacks. I generally have crew (on a regular basis) that have very little boating experience, let alone sailing experience. Teaching them to douse the main in a hurry and being able to do so without leaving the cockpit especially in less than ideal conditions seems easier for them to handle. In a man overboard situation this outweighed the advantages of raising the main from the mast winch. Having inexperienced crew on a regular basis and trying to teach them how to get back to a man overboard while under sail power reliably and consistently is a tough skill set for them to learn. Needless to say, dousing the sails and firing up the engine is more practical to teach when time is limited. Perhaps a minor detail but one with significant consequence.  If I had the same crew on a regular basis I would probably set the lines up a little differently.

I suppose everyones particular sailing situation is going to dictate how they ultimately set up their boat. The nice part about this forum is it eliminates a lot of needless trial and error.   

Nick

On Oct 15, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Leslie Owen wrote:

Thierry and Sharon, thanks for your thoughtful responses.  You are confirming my concern for increased drag as line is brought aft.  I always go forward to haul up sails and these ideas help me formulate if I want to continue to do the same.  Thierry your thoughts about issues that can arise when raising sails that may not be totally visible, or may not be that easy to reverse with lines fed aft is well taken.  There is something about "Murphy's Law"......if it can go wrong, it will.....  I hear you, Man.

Thanks,

Leslie

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Thierry Danz <thierr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Leslie,

 

I have strong opinions about this subject J.  Keep in mind that I single-hand a lot, and that if my wife is onboard as crew, I do not ask her to come on deck when she is off-watch at night, unless absolutely necessary. I alert her that I have to leave the cockpit for deck-work, but only ask her to come on deck if it cannot be avoided. 

 

On my 42 I have the main sheet, boomvang, main outhaul (I have a loose-footed mainsail), topping lift and mainsail track control lines led aft.  Six lines in total.  Jib and staysail sheets are led to dedicated winches on the cockpit coamings, in the traditional way. Normally, as designed, also the main halyard and reefing lines would be led to the cockpit.  I had a boat once (many years ago), with the main halyard led aft, and I made a sacred oath never to get this setup again.  For various reasons.  One: You introduce a lot of friction in the system with all these extra turning blocks.  Two:  With only one winch either side of the companion way you need a huge number of clutches.  It is so easy, especially in the dark, and when you’re tired after a long watch, to make a mistake and release the wrong clutch when switching from one function to another.  Three:  When raising the main from the cockpit, with a dodger and/or bimini blocking your view (and perhaps, perish the thought, working from inside a full cockpit enclosure), you will not be able to watch the main going up, and prevent snafus, or damage.  (That’s also the reason why I have no electric winches.)  Four: When something goes wrong, it almost always needs to be fixed from the mast, and then you have to go forward anyway.  You may end up making several trips back-and-forth betweeen the mast and the cockpit, or you have to get the off-watch crew on deck.  Five: Especially with single-line reefing you will not be able to set a proper reef.  You really don’t want a baggy mainsail when the wind goes over 20k.

 

So, when I ordered Curlew in 2002, I left the mainhalyard and the reefing control lines at the mast.  I have not regretted it since.  Under normal conditions I can raise the main by hand almost to the first reef point, and then use the mast mounted winch to raise the last feet or two.  I have full view off the main and the mast, and know immediately if something is wrong.  Same with reefing.  It really does not take that much time to put in a reef.  I have a reefing winch on the mast below the goose-neck, and clutches for three reefs in the boom.  I have full view of the main and can control the tension on the new foot much better than from the cockpit.  Granted, deck-work on my heavy 42 is easier than on some of my previous smaller and lighter boats.  The work platform is bigger, and the motion less jumpy.  And if things really start bouncing, you can always heave-to when you need to put in that second reef.  You won’t believe the difference in motion that makes.

 

That’s my two cents.  I hope I did not offend anybody J!

 

Thierry Danz

CR 42 # 12 CURLEW

Baltimore, MD

www.sailblogs.com/member/curlew

 

 

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From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 01:08

To: caborico
Subject: [caborico] Cockpit Sail handling?

 

Does anyone have the ability to control halyards from their cockpit of

their Cabo Rico, either 34, 36 or 38?  If you do, I would love to know

if you modified how halyards run, directing them to the cockpit or if
your vessel was made that way?

On Tango, we have the opening in the port side of the cockpit coaming
that accommodates the main sheet and the traveler control lines but I
don't think there is room for halyards through this small opening.  We
also have the main and stay sail halyards on the starboard side of the
mast.

It would seem we would need to take a chain saw to the forward
coaming, starboard side to let lines come through to the cockpit but I
hesitate to go to that extreme.  We do have the mast "grannie walkers"
to ease work at the mast but the idea of being able to raise sails
from the security of the cockpit sounds like an attractive
capability.  If anyone has run halyards around to the cockpit, I would
love to know how you accomplished this.

with thanks and kind regards,

Leslie
sv Tango, CR 34

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[Mickey Panayiotakis]

It's not so much the going at the mast that's an issue as the slug friction.  I feel quite safe working at the mast.

Getting caught with sails up is annoying and dangerous, and more often than either of these  bad for the sail. This happens to me when I'm short-handed but not too-short.  In the latter cases I tend to reduce sail very early.  Which tells me that I should reduce sail too early as a matter of course.  Easier to shake the reef. Anyway, the solution (for me) would be a track system, but these aren't cheap.  And there are too many to choose from.  I"ve heard good things about the Strong system, and it's one of the cheapest ones out there.  But not a priority at this time. I figured slugs were good enough for 30 years, they can stay good enough for a few more.  

 Scott, I have all (including main halyard but obviously not sheets) at the mast.  Doesn't make much sense for reefing to lead main halyard to cockpit but have reefing lines at mast :)  

Y

[Cab...@aol.com]

The Harken system works well and did not cost a fortune, about $1400 if I remember right from Rigging Only. Installs in a day, You must wash the balls out once a year and use One Drop on them. To drop the sail I deploy the Easy Jacks and circle the boat, when into the wind, release. It DROPS. Reefing is easy to do now. You must mark your lines.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

I'll add the ball-washing to the yearly maintenance.  Thanks, Breck :)  Does Strong require similar yearly maintenance? (anyone know?)

Y

[Nick Coffman]

Breck,

Did you have to modify the sail at all?

Nick

[Cab...@aol.com]

I had a friend that had the Strong system put in, whether it was put in wrong or what I don't know, but it did not function very well. No better than the slides I used to use.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Odd.  I've a friend who is sailing pretty much around the world (at NZ now) who has had no problems with it. I'll ask him specificaly about it next I talk to him.  I guess friends are also like men's asses :)

Y

[Sharon Isikoff]

Strong system worked great on Lollipop, sail dropped like a rock.   Sharon

[Cab...@aol.com]

I had/have a full batten sail, I had to sew on the car holders and put cars in place of the roller slugs I had for the batten attachments, Also you have to drill a couple new holes in the aluminum headboard. Last year I had a slug put in at the rear of the sail to hold it to the boom and had a third reef put in. I get up to speed much faster with the new sail. Third reef will go in at about 33kts of wind I guess. I have not got the blocks on the boom or mast yet. Anyone else have a third reef and when do you put it in?

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 10/18/2010 4:19:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cr3...@msn.com writes:

Breck,

Did you have to modify the sail at all?

Nick

On Oct 18, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Mickey Panayiotakis wrote:

[Cab...@aol.com]

I looked at his installation and it did not make sense to me. I told him to have Strong look at it but he has since sold the boat and bought another.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 10/18/2010 5:44:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, svb...@gmail.com writes:

Odd.  I've a friend who is sailing pretty much around the world (at NZ now) who has had no problems with it. I'll ask him specificaly about it next I talk to him.  I guess friends are also like men's asses :)

Y

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:41 PM, <Cab...@aol.com> wrote:

I had a friend that had the Strong system put in, whether it was put in wrong or what I don't know, but it did not function very well. No better than the slides I used to use.

 

[Dave Newberg]

We still have flat nylon slides but have been considering installing either Harken or Strong. Our sailmaker says that when installations are done properly there is a small advantage with Harken, but he thinks Harken is not worth the extra $$ unless you need the absolute top-of-the-line. 

It's possible of course that he has a motive to sell Strong. Maybe installation is easier. but it seems to me that his profits should be similar for both. 

Dave

Cigano

[Leslie]

Clayton and I installed a Strong system on Tango the first year we had
her. I would view this as an easy, owner installation. We had just
had a new Main made so the cars were installed on the new sail. It
works well. It's this that made me think I might be able to raise
sail from the cockpit rather than at the mast.

Certainly if you use lazy jacks like we do, it is helpful to head into
the wind or the sail drags on the LJ lines when coming down. However
the cars slide down very easily. We do not treat the system to any
special care or maintenance.

Our former vessel was problematic with raising and pulling down the
main so I can see a huge improvement with this system. Happily, I no
longer need to rub a candle on the sail track for improved sail
hoisting.

Leslie

[Sharon Isikoff]

That reminds me, we occasionally did drip some Joy dish detergent onto our strong system right before raising the sail. Cleaned out the track and lubricated nicely. Sharon

[Cab...@aol.com]

I remember why I did not use the Strong system or the Dutchman system, sort of remember anyway, I believe they use a plastic insert that slides up the groove in the mast track. My mast was not flat enough on the trailing edge for it to sit. I think my friend's Strong system did not work because they did not use the plastic strip and had the slides riding in the groove he had in the mast??? I squirt a little watered down dish washing soap on the races also.   

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 10/19/2010 7:08:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sisi...@cfl.rr.com writes:

That reminds me, we occasionally did drip some Joy dish detergent onto our strong system right before raising the sail.  Cleaned out the track and lubricated nicely.   Sharon

[Thierry Danz]

I spray McLube Sailkote twice a year on the slides before I raise the main.  I have no fancy slides (no need with my two full-length battens and two short ones).

 

Thierry Danz

CR 42 # 12 CURLEW

Baltimore, MD

www.sailblogs.com/member/curlew

 

 

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[ldcbarker]

Our boat came with the Harken bat car system. Even with lube and a full batten main we have never been able to get the main to drop completely down as we would like. The system is very heavy also. 

Larry

[Tania Puell]

hi breck,
my name is tania.
i own a cabo rico 34 from 1991.
i bought her last year in annapolis and my husband and i sailed her down to vieques, puerto rico, where we live (with the help of a professional).
we would love to be able to douse and reef the main from the cockpit, but im not really understanding this harken track system. do you have a photo of your installation or maybe you can point me to some pics online? i tried to find some, but all i found were detail shots of individual parts...
thx, t.

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