A SUNDAY CONVERSATION WITH JOHN FORESTER

[Serge Issakov]

Peter Flax interviews John Forester. 

Well done. 

https://medium.com/@peterflax/a-sunday-conversation-with-john-forester-f997e053d0db

Serge

[Gary Cziko]

Yes, very interesting. Great history of cycling in California that probably only John Forester could provide.

The following part of the conversation puts another L.A. street on my list for cycling with 360 video, as I did recently for Lincoln Boulevard (part of L.A.'s "High Injury Network") in the Venice neighborhood.
https://cyclingsavvy.org/2019/06/worst-city-to-ride-a-bike/

PF: Like there’s a stretch on Fairfax, say between Wilshire and Melrose, where it’s four tight lanes and there’s no shoulder or margin, the road is poorly paved.

 

JF: I know where you’re talking about. I used to live in West LA.

 

PF: So if there’s open space people will drive 50 miles an hour on that stretch of road; it just feels that if you want to get over to the farmer’s market area from Wilshire there’s not a good alternate, quieter road to get to, and so you feel like your choices are to ride on a horribly maintained sidewalk or to get in the center of a lane and ride 20 miles per hour and presume you’re making enough of a visual presence. I would agree that it’s statistically unlikely that someone is going to rear end me, but I still feel threatened, and it’s unpleasant enough where I don’t like to do it and I know that if I don’t like to do it that 95% of the people who ride a bike in Los Angeles aren’t going to do it. They’re going to feel like “I’m not going to ride to the farmer’s market because I don’t feel like there’s a safe way to get there.”

 

JF: Long ago I got to the point where I didn’t give a damn what ignorant motorist superiority people feel about me. I ride the way I should. And to hell with them.

Previously, Flax had complained about the left turn from Venice Boulevard to La Cienega on his commute home. I showed him how to do it savvily using an anticipatory jug-handle left turn.
https://vimeo.com/231027682

I do disagree with John's final comment above about not giving a damn about what motorists think about cyclists. Cycling is much more pleasant and fun for me when I am cooperative and mindful of the impact my presence has on motorists behind. I'm always looking for opportunities when I can facilitate motorists' movement when it is safe and convenient for me to do so using the four traffic release techniques we teach in CyclingSavvy: (1) control and release, (2) release on red, (3) release on green and (4) slow and release. These are explained and demonstrated in our online courses available at http://CyclingSavvy.org

There's also a fair amount of discussion in the interview about cycling in the the Netherlands. For a recent sampling of what that is like, check out my video of cycling in Amsterdam two weeks ago.  I have many hours of 360 video from both Amsterdam and Copenhagen that I will eventually be putting on YouTube and indexing.

Finally, a video example from L.A. of cyclist inferiority behavior, using a sidewalk in poor condition and cycling in front of a motorist at a STOP sign to get through the right-left jog across Olympic Boulevard. A savvy cyclist would simply wait for a break in traffic to make a right turn into the left lane followed by a left turn when oncoming traffic had cleared.

-- Gary

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Gary Cziko ("ZEE-ko"), PhD
Professor Emeritus, Educational Psychology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

CyclingSavvy Instructor (CSI)

Board of Directors, American Bicycling Education Association (ABEA.bike)

Board of Directors, California Association of Bicycle Organizations (CABO)

Expert Witness for Cyclists' Rights

[F Lehnerz]

Gary, 

Flax’s comments were about feelings, not thoughts. As was John’s “not give a damn” comment. However I don’t know if he necessarily took a position that one does not need to be cooperative. 

More than anything it’s just not letting other people’s perceived feelings and/or thoughts control you so much. Letting one’s thoughts and emotions be so dominated by this mindset is distracts one from the actual task. 

I don’t understand why/where Flax got the idea he needs to travel at 20mph on that road and why such “speed requirements” are repeated by those, especially other cyclists, who are skeptical of bicycle driving. People cycling on that road, should cycle at the speed they please provided they’re using the correct lane on the roadway but indeed if there are opportunities to use some of the methods taught in Cycling Savvy then they should be considered. 

I think some of us have acquired both the skill of not letting the apparent thoughts and emotions of others control us so much and instead spend that mental energy looking for opportunities to cooperate with other road users and for enjoying our trips. 

Preaching to the choir of course. :) 

Kudos to Flax for reaching out to John. It really says a lot about his willingness to understand the his perspective instead of repeating the same tired myths about the man. 

Frank

On Sep 30, 2019, at 10:22, Gary Cziko <gcz...@gmail.com> wrote:



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