E-bikes are not bicycles - a personal observation

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Jim Baross

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Aug 10, 2022, 9:12:34 PM8/10/22
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I think that People for Bikes and others got this wrong. We'd be better off if these new devices were regulated under their own categories, more similarly to how MoPeds are considered.

Classifying them as Bicycles has apparently led to people/parents thinking that these things are, like bicycles, suitable for children, not requiring any level of competency, and may be operated similarly to how most people seem to operate bicycles - without regard to CVC or courteous/rational behaviors. 

Separating them from Bicycles could allow for requiring some level of competency before lawful use, such as possession of a Calif Driver's Licence or successful completion of a skills course similar to that required for motorcycle use. 

Jim Baross (surmising, not stating a CABO, League, or SDCBC position)
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clint.sandusky

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Aug 10, 2022, 9:34:54 PM8/10/22
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Hi Jim,

Once again, whether people like or dislike that legal e-Bikes (Class 1, 2 or 3) are considered "bicycles" per the NEW 2021 Federal Law and the majority of states, their status and definitions are here to stay -- minus some momentous change.

Again, we as cycling educators and an organization (CABO or other) need to work within this system and teach both adults and youth to safe, savvy, legal and respectful riding whether on "conventional" bicycles or e-Bikes.  PERIOD.

Respectfully,

Clint Sandusky
Retired Police Cyclist
CA POST Bike Patrol Instructor
E-Bike Instructor & Presenter⚡️
CABO, District 8 Rep.

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Pete Penseyres

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Aug 10, 2022, 10:28:16 PM8/10/22
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I absolutely agree Clint. Those bikes are not going to go away. They are way too much fun for kids who are too young to drive and adults as well. 

Pete Penseyres
League of American Bicyclists Certified Instructor #2020




Serge Issakov

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Aug 11, 2022, 12:17:11 AM8/11/22
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Sorry, I’m good with treating them (class 1-3) as bicycles. It’s not much different from captaining a tandem with a bike racer for a stoker.  That’s a legal bicycle too. 

Serge

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Paul Wendt

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Aug 11, 2022, 12:26:31 AM8/11/22
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I agree with Serge.

On the moderate speed club rides I do, around a quarter of the riders have electric assist pedaling.

This puts me at a disadvantage, since the people who might otherwise be slower than me are faster, and I'm one of the slowest.

But they're all hard-core long-time cyclists, and they're still expending significant amount of muscle energy to ride...the e-assist simply allows them to go a bit faster.

Paul

Gary Cziko

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Aug 11, 2022, 12:55:26 AM8/11/22
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On the Big Orange club rides I was doing until recently up the PCH to Malibu, an easy “noodling” pace is 24 to 26 mph on the flat.

The one time I remember a couple of e-assist cyclists got on the back at a stop light, they were quickly dropped. They were apparently riding Class 1 or 2 e-bikes, not Class 3.

— Gary
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Gary Cziko ("ZEE-ko"), Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Board of Directors, California Association of Bicycle Organizations (CABObike.org)
CyclingSavvy Instructor (CSI)
Board of Directors, American Bicycling Education Association (March 2015 - August 2021)
Expert Witness for Cyclists' Rights

clint.sandusky

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Aug 11, 2022, 1:16:39 AM8/11/22
to gcz...@gmail.com, cycl...@gmail.com, Cabo Forum, Jim Baross
You are absolutely correct Gary; they were probably riding Class 1s or 2s.

Now here's the thing.  Quality and newer e-Bike drive units (motors), like from BOSCH eBike Systems, have a "motor decoupler."  This means a rider can pedal beyond the assistance of the electric motor, with NO drag or resistance from the motor.

Of course, this rider would still be pedaling a heavier e-Road or other type of e-Bike.

Clint⚡️



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Ramon Zavala

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Aug 11, 2022, 7:47:36 PM8/11/22
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I'm kinda of heartened that CABO is having this debate. We at UC Davis are getting into the nitty gritty of what exactly we want to facilitate (and how) on campus in light of the potential entry of Lime shared electric bikes and scooters into our ecosystem and two fairly high-visibility incidents-- one being fatal and involving the use of an electric bike.

People are all over the map as to what devices they think should be actively encouraged on campus and why. Fears, biases, dogma, etc. all play a part.

The way I see it, particularly with the seventeen different non-vehicle transportation devices defined, referenced, and/or regulated by the California Vehicle Code, it's about time there be a full re-write of the relevant sections to provide easier governance/enforcement of existing and future devices.

Imagine 4 device classes:
  • Class 1: Effectively Pedestrian - Skateboard, rollerskates, mobility scooter (motorized tricycle per CVC)
  • Class 2: Road-Using Device, Non-Powered
  • Class 3: Road-Using Device, Low-Powered
  • Class 4: Road-Using Device, High-Powered
  • Class 5: Business Device - Pedicab, shared mobility.
Each group (except business devices) would have shared requirements. Business devices will have specialized requirements/restrictions (insurance, roadway limitations).
  • Operator Requirements (minimum age, licensing, helmet, physical restrictions)
    • Example: No one under the age of 16 is allowed to operate a class 3 device within the public right of way. No one under 18 is allowed to operate a class 4 or 5 device within the public right of way.
  • Facility Permissions (sidewalk, far-to-right road req., Class 1-4 bikeways)
    • Example: Class 1 devices are allowed on the sidewalk and class 1 bikeways.
  • Hardware Requirements (Reflectors, lights after dark, audible warning)
    • Example: Class 2-5 must have a front-mounted white light capable of being seen from 300 feet after dark.
  • Hardware Limitations (Max. powered speed, max. power)
    • Example: Class 3 devices are limited to 15mph of electric drive power.
New device on the market? A self-balancing, automated pogo stick? No need to create an entirely new set of laws for it! Figure out which category it fits in, add it to the list of defined devices for that category, and all those laws will apply!

Obviously, this is a LOT of work. (Work that I would happily do if were to take two months of vacation to work on it.) But it does attack the problem (how certain devices are regulated) as opposed to attempting to change definitions from common and logical understanding. An electric bicycle is still a bicycle by legal definition, but it's different enough to require different regulation. I think that the regulation is insufficiently different given the ease of achieving certain speeds and the accessibility by certain age groups.

Ramon

Judy Frankel

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Aug 11, 2022, 8:47:52 PM8/11/22
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Gary Cziko

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Aug 12, 2022, 5:16:03 PM8/12/22
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People,

I met a fellow on the LA bike path bridge (Ballona Creek Bridge) yesterday who had just purchased a Luna “e-bike” in nearby El Segundo. He said it could get it up to 50 to 55 mph! I told him it certainly wasn’t legal on the bike path and probably not on the streets, either.

Curious, I followed up with a visit to the Luna showroom in El Segundo. The place was full of “e-bikes” and it was the first time I was “bike” shop where not a single vehicle for sale was street legal or bike path legal! The fast ones (or at least one I saw) had a label on it saying was not legal for street use. And one of the employees said they are up front about that with customers. But another employee told me he rides his all over LA, including the bike path. If he’s concerned a LEO might stop him, he slows down and pedals it—it has a single super low pedaling gear pretty useless for human-powered operation.

Their slowest model is a “fixed stealth e-bike” with the battery hidden in the down tube and no throttle. So I thought that might be a legal Type 3. But the website says it has no cutoff at higher speeds so it’s basically 500 watts added to whatever watts you can add via it’s three-speed internal rear hub. The website also says it is street legal in all 50 states, which is obviously not true for California which requires e-assist cut-off at 26 mph.

That being said this bike has 3 speeds, in gear #3 you should be able to reach 24mph +. The power does not shut off at a certain speed in the highest PAS level so if you are already pretty fast on your road or fixie bike you will be scary fast on this bike.

So I better appreciate now Pete’s concern about the sale and use of these “e-bikes.” I’ve seen very few “e-bikes” like these operating in LA and I’ve never seen one operating at anything close to normal arterial speeds of 35 to 45 mph. But 
I can appreciate the havoc they could cause by poorly skilled, unlicensed, uninsured riders who don’t believe traffic laws apply to them.

John Eldon

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Aug 12, 2022, 5:41:37 PM8/12/22
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Anything that can go that fast needs to be licensed and insured like the motorcycle it is. 

John A. Eldon, D.Env.

http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JohnEldon
Digital Design Engineering Consultant
Environmental Engineering Consultant
Instructor, UCSD & UCSD Extension
Life Senior Member, IEEE


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Bill SELLIN

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Aug 12, 2022, 5:52:28 PM8/12/22
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And be certified by federal Highway admin to be legally licensed as a moped, motorized cycle or motorcycle- 

Bill Sellin

"Most of the World 
      is either Downhill or Flat...

On Aug 12, 2022, at 2:42 PM, John Eldon <j.e...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



Judy Frankel

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Aug 12, 2022, 5:54:02 PM8/12/22
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How can they enforce any of this.  Unless the use radar a d stop it for speeding?

Gary Cziko

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Aug 12, 2022, 7:24:35 PM8/12/22
to Judy Frankel, wa...@sellin.com, j.e...@sbcglobal.net, Cabo Forum
Plus X-ray machines to look inside the downtube to find the battery and inside the bottom bracket to see the motor on the stealth e-bike!

William Sellin

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Aug 12, 2022, 8:31:22 PM8/12/22
to Judy Frankel, John Eldon, Gary Cziko, Cabo Forum
Legal electric bicycles are required to be labeled as class 1 2 or 3 - no label? take it away and impound it. 
Google the manufacturer & see if it is street legal in California. 
Over 750 watts? Throtle over 20mph? Illegal without moped registration and M1 or M2 license and motorcycle helmet.

Any cop who takes a bit of initiative (or parent who lets their kid have one) can verify if it is legal or no if they care enough.

 
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.” – John Muir


Michael Graff

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Aug 12, 2022, 8:37:02 PM8/12/22
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You can't spell "Lunacycle" without "lunacy"

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Gary Cziko

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Aug 12, 2022, 8:44:24 PM8/12/22
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Bill,

Oh, and one salesperson told me you can get Class 2 and Class 3 labels to stick on as you wish. Easy!

Gary 

CycleCA

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Aug 13, 2022, 1:38:24 PM8/13/22
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I sure don't see any LEO taking the time to check an e-bike motor or impound one. They do not event stop vehicles for obvious speeding or running red lights.

One solution is simple: If it is not legal ride, it should be illegal to sell. This would take all e-bike that are not trail or road legal out of the stores. It would not stop people with a road legal e-bike from riding on a trail, however.

Bob Mack

Cycle California! Magazine
phone 408-924-0270

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Serge Issakov

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Aug 13, 2022, 4:57:04 PM8/13/22
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It’s not that simple. The problem is they’re not illegal to ride.  They’re illegal to ride on roadways. Big difference.  So they’re ostensibly sold for off road riding only.  Like some off-road vehicles which are also not street legal but legal to sell.  

Serge

Cyc...@cyclecalifornia.com

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Aug 13, 2022, 6:30:42 PM8/13/22
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Good point. No one stops people riding non-street legal motorcycles or other vehicles either. 

Bob Mack
Publisher, Cycle California! Magazine
1120 Bird Ave. Suite F #231
San Jose, CA 95125

On Aug 13, 2022, at 1:57 PM, Serge Issakov <serge....@gmail.com> wrote:



Michael Graff

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Aug 13, 2022, 8:36:44 PM8/13/22
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Some cities are so understaffed lately, they're barely doing traffic enforcement at all.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 10:38 AM CycleCA <Cyc...@cyclecalifornia.com> wrote:

Scott Mace

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Aug 14, 2022, 11:56:22 AM8/14/22
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It's also related to equity issues. Stories like this one are everywhere in the U.S.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/31/philadelphia-ban-minor-police-traffic-stops/6224286001/

Scott Mace

Clinton Sandusky

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Aug 14, 2022, 1:06:00 PM8/14/22
to Scott Mace, Cabo Forum, Jim Baross, Gary Cziko
Good morning everyone!

For those of you that have a Ride Awesome Membership - CyclingSavvy, I/we will be continuing the discussion on how to make driving/riding your e-Bike (if you own one) a more safe, legal, savvy and respectful one!

The virtual session is THIS Wednesday, August 17th from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. (Pacific Time).  Keep an eye out from CyclingSavvy/ABEA on a reminder invitation.

See you there,

Mike Lasché

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Aug 17, 2022, 7:29:21 PM8/17/22
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Unfortunately, the move to retard law enforcement, in the name of “equity” is actually hurting black people.    Since enforcement has been curtailed, data from the CDC shows black homicide rates are up.    And, black traffic deaths are significantly up.

There is an old truism in transportation.   Each mode of transportation, in order to survive, needs the 3 E’s……engineering, education, and enforcement.     Eliminating enforcement is idiocy.

Mike Lasche
Florida Walks and Bikes



It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time

May 25, 2022
It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Timephoto credit: Bigstock

On this, the second anniversary of the death of George Floyd, the evidence is now overwhelming: American elites have blood on their hands for their hysterical response to a local police blotter incident that has since brought about many thousands of incremental dead bodies on the pavement. The Floyd fiasco has been the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq invasion: a massive, self-inflicted national wound.

The proof is in the simultaneous eruption, once the great and the good turned sharply against the police during the mostly peaceful protests, in not just black-on-black shootings, but also in black traffic fatalities. It turns out that cops being made afraid to pull over black reckless drivers and jaywalkers leads more blacks to drive badly and/or pack a pistol.

Here’s a graph I drew up of the monthly per-capita rate of deaths by homicide from 2014 to 2020. I set the non-Hispanic white average of 2010–2014 to one so that you can easily see the racial ratios. Try to pick out when the “racial reckoning” that is being celebrated today began:

As you can see, according to the Centers for Disease Control’s WONDER database that tracks the causes of death written on all the death certificates in the country, the chance of an individual black dying violently at the hands of another human being was about 7 to 8 times the chance of a white dying by homicide back in relatively peaceful 2014.

(Unlike the FBI, the CDC measures who dies violently, but not who kills. Blacks commit a higher proportion of interracial murder than do other races, but most murders are intraracial, so measures of victims and perpetrators tend to go up and down more or less together. Also, the CDC does a better job than the FBI of disentangling Hispanics from whites.)

But then the Black Lives Matter movement began to win local victories over police departments, first in the St. Louis area, and then Baltimore, Chicago, and so forth. In the last two years of the Obama administration, the Ferguson Effect drove the black rate up to 8 to 10 times the white rate.

During the first few years of the Trump administration, this unfortunate trend was halted, but the black murder rate remained high.

Then the press and politicians went berserk in late May 2020, egging on rioters and depressing law enforcement. The Floyd Effect drove black homicides to skyrocket, peaking in July 2020 at over 15 times the white rate in 2010–2014, and remaining at an unprecedented ratio for the rest of the year.

Hispanic and white deaths by homicide also were unusually high in the second half of 2020, but not the murders of Asians (despite the Narrative that Trump’s March 2020 comments about the “Chinese virus” unleashed a frenzy of violence against Asians).

“The Floyd fiasco has been the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq invasion: a massive, self-inflicted national wound.”

When the press is forced to admit that murders exploded in 2020, they blame it on Covid and leave George Floyd’s sacred name out of it.

No doubt, the pandemic contributed to the decline in policing that let slaughter run rampant: In March 2020, cops started social distancing from suspects and the authorities began letting criminals and crazy men out of prisons and mental wards.

Still, in March 2020, blacks were 8.7 times more likely to die by homicide than whites in 2010–2014, then 10.2 times in April, both in the normal range since the Great Awokening. With the huge eruption in violence in late May following Floyd’s death, the ratio hit 12.6 (the first time the black death-by-homicide rate exceeded 12 since 9/11), followed by 14.4 in June, a record 15.5 in July, and remained above 13 for the rest of the year.

As a million thinkpieces are saying today, something changed in May 2020.

We don’t have 2021 data from the CDC yet, but it appears to be similar. Rather than a murder “uptick” or “spike,” we seem to have reached a new plateau. Joe Biden doesn’t want to encourage more murder, but he also doesn’t seem willing to do what it takes to discourage it, either. So, the country appears stuck in a post-Floyd holding pattern.

That the Murder Boom is a by-product of the war on mass incarceration is the kind of thing that gets covered up because it would make important people look stupid. In contrast, nobody bothers to censor the fact that the Car Crash Boom is another offshoot of anti-police attitudes because, as far as I can tell, nobody noticed it until my Taki’s column last June.

But if you plot the CDC’s motor vehicle accident death stats by month (with everybody once again compared to whites from 2010–2014), it’s comparably undeniable:

The black per-capita traffic fatality rate used to be lower than the white rate (whites drive more miles per capita, and the most problem-prone whites tend to live where they need to drive a long way to get anywhere, while the most troublesome blacks tend to live in the inner city and take public transit).

But blacks pulled slightly ahead during the Ferguson Effect. Then in June 2020, the black rate exploded and stayed extreme for the rest of the year. As I pointed out last June, in the seven months following George Floyd’s demise, black road fatalities were 36 percent higher than in the same period of 2019, compared with a 9 percent increase among the rest of the population.

The connection between the mostly peaceful protests against law and order and the rise in murder and road mayhem is obvious when you stop and think about it: An active police presence discourages bad behavior.

But, two years ago today, practically nobody at the top of our society stopped to think.



Mike Lasché

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Aug 18, 2022, 11:20:35 AM8/18/22
to F Lehnerz, CABO Forum
To Frank Lehnerz, who sent an article about how the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition is urging people not to contact the police when their bicycle is stolen because it might lead to a minority member having an interaction with police.   I am not sure if the image of his article is being transmitted with this message but I presume that many of you are aware of such statements.

Great point!
    
One wonders who we should call when a bike is stolen.    Should we call the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition?   Will they send a representative out to collect the bicycle from the thieves?

The lunacy of the SF Coalition is compounded when one realizes that the only person they care about, in a bicycle theft, is the thief.   The Coalition only worries about what might happen to the perp after the theft, with no regard for the victim.   But, a basic observation of criminology, well supported by massive data, is that most personal crimes (robbery, mugging, assault, battery, murder, domestic violence, etc) is not inter-racial, but intra-racial.    Of course, it varies by location and type of crime, but on the order of 80-90%, most personal crimes involve a perp and a victim of the same ethnicity.     Thus, and I urge those with statistics to show, it is most likely that the victims of black bicycle thieves are likely to be blacks.    Thus, ignoring bicycle theft by black perps is not helping black people but instead, hurting them.

It would be great to see statistics showing the racial composition of bicycle thieves and bicycle theft victims.

Similarly, regarding the lack of enforcement in the black community, post-Floyd, it would be great to see what has happened with crashes involving black pedestrians and cyclists, and injury/fatalities among black cyclists.   And, since the lack of enforcement of traffic laws affects not only black people but all people, it would be interesting to see what has happened post-Floyd with all pedestrian crashes and all bicycle crashes.

Law Enforcement saves lives!   And, Enforcement is absolutely necessary for bicycle movement and transportation.

Mike Lasche

On Aug 17, 2022, at 7:42 PM, F Lehnerz <flehne...@gmail.com> wrote:


To add to the insanity! 
<image.png>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2022, at 16:29, Mike Lasché <mi...@floridawalksandbikes.org> wrote:

Unfortunately, the move to retard law enforcement, in the name of “equity” is actually hurting black people.    Since enforcement has been curtailed, data from the CDC shows black homicide rates are up.    And, black traffic deaths are significantly up.

There is an old truism in transportation.   Each mode of transportation, in order to survive, needs the 3 E’s……engineering, education, and enforcement.     Eliminating enforcement is idiocy.

Mike Lasche

It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time

<bigstock-Seamless-Pattern-George-Floyd-369730672.jpg>photo credit: Bigstock

On this, the second anniversary of the death of George Floyd, the evidence is now overwhelming: American elites have blood on their hands for their hysterical response to a local police blotter incident that has since brought about many thousands of incremental dead bodies on the pavement. The Floyd fiasco has been the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq invasion: a massive, self-inflicted national wound.

The proof is in the simultaneous eruption, once the great and the good turned sharply against the police during the mostly peaceful protests, in not just black-on-black shootings, but also in black traffic fatalities. It turns out that cops being made afraid to pull over black reckless drivers and jaywalkers leads more blacks to drive badly and/or pack a pistol.

Here’s a graph I drew up of the monthly per-capita rate of deaths by homicide from 2014 to 2020. I set the non-Hispanic white average of 2010–2014 to one so that you can easily see the racial ratios. Try to pick out when the “racial reckoning” that is being celebrated today began:

<Screen Shot 2022-08-17 at 7.22.34 PM.png>

As you can see, according to the Centers for Disease Control’s WONDER database that tracks the causes of death written on all the death certificates in the country, the chance of an individual black dying violently at the hands of another human being was about 7 to 8 times the chance of a white dying by homicide back in relatively peaceful 2014.

(Unlike the FBI, the CDC measures who dies violently, but not who kills. Blacks commit a higher proportion of interracial murder than do other races, but most murders are intraracial, so measures of victims and perpetrators tend to go up and down more or less together. Also, the CDC does a better job than the FBI of disentangling Hispanics from whites.)

But then the Black Lives Matter movement began to win local victories over police departments, first in the St. Louis area, and then Baltimore, Chicago, and so forth. In the last two years of the Obama administration, the Ferguson Effect drove the black rate up to 8 to 10 times the white rate.

During the first few years of the Trump administration, this unfortunate trend was halted, but the black murder rate remained high.

Then the press and politicians went berserk in late May 2020, egging on rioters and depressing law enforcement. The Floyd Effect drove black homicides to skyrocket, peaking in July 2020 at over 15 times the white rate in 2010–2014, and remaining at an unprecedented ratio for the rest of the year.

Hispanic and white deaths by homicide also were unusually high in the second half of 2020, but not the murders of Asians (despite the Narrative that Trump’s March 2020 comments about the “Chinese virus” unleashed a frenzy of violence against Asians).

“The Floyd fiasco has been the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq invasion: a massive, self-inflicted national wound.”

When the press is forced to admit that murders exploded in 2020, they blame it on Covid and leave George Floyd’s sacred name out of it.

No doubt, the pandemic contributed to the decline in policing that let slaughter run rampant: In March 2020, cops started social distancing from suspects and the authorities began letting criminals and crazy men out of prisons and mental wards.

Still, in March 2020, blacks were 8.7 times more likely to die by homicide than whites in 2010–2014, then 10.2 times in April, both in the normal range since the Great Awokening. With the huge eruption in violence in late May following Floyd’s death, the ratio hit 12.6 (the first time the black death-by-homicide rate exceeded 12 since 9/11), followed by 14.4 in June, a record 15.5 in July, and remained above 13 for the rest of the year.

As a million thinkpieces are saying today, something changed in May 2020.

We don’t have 2021 data from the CDC yet, but it appears to be similar. Rather than a murder “uptick” or “spike,” we seem to have reached a new plateau. Joe Biden doesn’t want to encourage more murder, but he also doesn’t seem willing to do what it takes to discourage it, either. So, the country appears stuck in a post-Floyd holding pattern.

That the Murder Boom is a by-product of the war on mass incarceration is the kind of thing that gets covered up because it would make important people look stupid. In contrast, nobody bothers to censor the fact that the Car Crash Boom is another offshoot of anti-police attitudes because, as far as I can tell, nobody noticed it until my Taki’s column last June.

But if you plot the CDC’s motor vehicle accident death stats by month (with everybody once again compared to whites from 2010–2014), it’s comparably undeniable:

<Screen Shot 2022-08-17 at 7.26.31 PM.png>

Frank J. Lehnerz

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Aug 18, 2022, 1:45:31 PM8/18/22
to Mike Lasché, CABO Forum
A friend from near the the Bay Area sent me that screenshot but I didn't bother to go look at their page until now to confirm. 


The "consider the possible impact" link in either section do not work either so users really don't know what the SF Bike Coalition is suggesting. To their credit, they do provide a lot of good advice on how to properly lock your bike. But if the SF Bike Coalition didn't "take a stand" in this way though, they'd catch a lot of grief from other people and organizations for "not doing enough." 
So it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing. It's all part of a perpetual purity spiral common with the ideology. The irony is not lost though that they want to reduce what's now fashionably called "traffic violence" which does need some way to stop or hold accountable motorists who behave recklessly towards bicyclists and/or operate their vehicles while intoxicated. 

They do actually suggest filing a police report if your insurance requires one (spoiler alert: they almost always often do) but to file one using SFPD's online system to avoid in person contact with the police. 
image.png


image.png
Well that seems fine and dandy, but if you check off the box indicating you have "suspect information, surveillance video, or other physical evidence (excluding pictures) of the offense," you're not able to file an online report and instead have to contact SFPD in person anyways. 
Not all bike thefts have such information, to be fair, but for the ones that do, it makes filing the report that much more cumbersome and goes against that advice provided by the SF Bike Coalition. If you follow their advice under "Take as many notes as possible," then you might end up having to file an in-person report anyways. 

To add insult to injury, the police might simply tell you they don't take reports for such things anyways. They're not legally obligated to either. So if you do go down that path of filing the report in person you might have wasted a few hours of your time only to be told "no." 

SF in particular for the last few years had a DA who was extremely lax on actually prosecuting so that arguably also had an effect on whether police would bother to do their jobs anyways by taking reports unless absolutely severe such as a murder. That DA was recently recalled, overwhelmingly by the AAPI community  (in some part over his horrific handling of Hanako Abe's death) who are also screwed over royally by the handful of local school board cultists they also recalled. 

The biggest problem for non-white folks in SF isn't necessarily the cops though, it's the ideology parasitizing that city's political system and apparently also  Bike Coalitions

This article stabs the issue directly. 

This one is paywalled, but I'll paste the first few paragraphs, highlights/emphasis mine. 

Over the last year, a growing number of progressives and liberals have pointed to police killings of unarmed black men, rising carbon emissions and extreme weather events, and the killing of trans people as proof that the United States has failed to take action on racism, climate change, and transphobia. Others have pointed to the war on drugs, the criminalization of homelessness, and mass incarceration as evidence that little has changed in the U.S. over the last 30 years. 

And yet, on each of those issues, the U.S. has made significant progress. Police killings of African Americans in our 58 largest cities declined from 217 per year in the 1970s to 157 per year in the 2010s. Between 2011 and 2020, carbon emissions declined 14 percent in the U.S., more than in any other nation, while just 300 people died from natural disasters, a more than 90 percent decline over the past century. Public acceptance of trans people is higher than ever. The total US prison and jail population peaked in 2008 and has declined significantly ever since. Just 4 percent of state prisoners, who are 87 percent of the total prison population, are in for nonviolent drug possession; just 14 percent are in for any nonviolent drug offense. And many large cities including Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle have effectively decriminalized public camping by homeless people. 

Progressives respond that these gains obscure broad inequalities, and are under threat. Black Americans are killed at between two to three times the rate of white Americans, according to a Washington Post analysis of police killings between 2015 and 2020. Carbon emissions are once again rising as the U.S. emerges from the covid pandemic, and scientists believe global warming is contributing to extreme weather events. In 2020, Human Rights Campaign found that at least 44 transgender and non-gender conforming people were killed, which is the most since it started tracking fatalities in 2013, and already that number has reached 45 this year. Drug prohibition remains in effect, homeless people are still being arrested, and the U.S. continues to have one of the highest rates of incarceration in the world.

But those numbers, too, obscure important realities. There are no racial differences in police killings when accounting for whether or not the suspect was armed or a threat (“justified” vs “unjustified” shooting). While carbon emissions will rise in 2021 there is every reason to believe they will continue to decline in the future, so long as natural gas continues to replace coal, and nuclear plants continue operating. While climate change may be contributing to extreme weather events, neither the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change nor another other scientific body predicts it will outpace rising resilience to cause an increase in deaths from natural disasters. Researchers do not know if trans people are being killed disproportionately in comparison to cis-gender people, if trans homicides are rising, or if trans people are being killed for being trans, rather than for some other reason. Twenty-six states have decriminalized marijuana, and California and Oregon have decriminalized and legalized, respectively, the possession of all drugs. Progressive District Attorneys in San FranciscoLos Angeles and other major cities have scaled back prosecutions against people for breaking many laws related to homelessness including public camping, public drug use, and theft.

And yet many Americans would be surprised to learn any of the above information; some would reject it outright as false. Consider that, despite the decline in police killings of African Americans, the share of the public which said police violence is a serious or extremely serious problem rose from 32 to 45 percent between 2015 and 2020. Despite the decline in carbon emissions, 47 percent of the public agreed with the statement, “Carbon emissions have risen in the United States over the last 10 years,” and just 16 percent disagreed. Meanwhile, 46 percent of Americans agree with the statement, “Deaths from natural disasters will increase in the future due to climate change” and just 16 percent disagreed, despite the absence of any scientific scenario supporting such fears. And despite the lack of good evidence, mainstream news media widely reported that the killing of trans people is on the rise.

The gulf between reality and perception is alarming for reasons that go beyond the importance of having an informed electorate for a healthy liberal democracy. Distrust of the police appears to have contributed to the nearly 30% rise in homicides after the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests last year, both by embolding criminals and causing a pull-back of police.growing body of research finds that news media coverage of climate change is contributing to rising levels of anxiety and depression among children. And there is good reason to fear that misinformation about the killing of trans and non-gender conforming individuals contributes to anxiety and depression among trans and gender dysphoric youth.



Frank 

Judy Frankel

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Aug 18, 2022, 3:03:06 PM8/18/22
to flehne...@gmail.com, Mike Lasché, CABO Forum

Seth Davidson Law on filing your own police report.. I think this applies to stolen bikes as well as assault.

https://citsb.com/?s=police%20report&fbclid=IwAR1YtOLj8XkAqqc6RjyP7ZsCNXNkVDbBr_2yyszD9nsaLeHqjpBymv9b24U

 

Most people think that the police are the only ones who can write a police report. They’re wrong. What the police are expert at is NOT writing police reports. The police don’t write thousands of reports a year. Why? Because it’s a lot of work and it leads to more work, which leads to even more work, resulting in the worst of all outcomes, more work.

Although it takes a surprising amount of effort to deter victims from reporting felonies, it takes even more effort to take out a piece of paper, ask a few questions, and then write a comprehensive narrative that addresses the statute of limitations, jurisdiction, criminal intent, the other elements of the crime, and identification of the applicable section(s) of the penal code.

However, not only can you write the police report, you should. No one knows what happened better than you. No one can articulate it better than you. No one remembers the details better than you. And best of all, seated at your computer with plenty of time to think and reconstruct and revise and use the dogdamned spell-check for fuck’s sake, no one can write it better than you.

Procedurally, it’s very simple.

1.    Write what happened.

2.    Take it to the police station that has jurisdiction where the assault occurred.

3.    Tell them you want report a crime and you’ve already written it up for them.

4.    Have them review it, answer their questions, and hand over the physical evidence (video, photos).

5.    Make sure they assign a DR Number or a file number and they give it to you.

6.    Get the name and email and phone number of the detective assigned to the case.

7.    Go home and email the report to the detective so that you have an electronic trail of having submitted the report.

8.    You’re done. You’ve just reported your first felony. And now someone is gonna have to work.

Practically, there are a number of obstacles you can run into. The desk officer may say it’s a traffic issue. Politely tell him you’re there to report a crime. Emphasize that it concerns an assault with a deadly weapon. If he resists, ask to speak with the watch commander. The police are obligated by law to take your report. Whether they investigate it, or think it has merit, or plan to refer it for prosecution are wholly unrelated issues. You’re there to report a crime and you’ve done their work for them.

Another issue you may run into is that you didn’t get any identifying information other than a description of the vehicle, i.e. “white pick-up.” Didn’t see the driver, don’t have a license plate number. You can still, and you should still, make a report. Why? Because that driver may be a repeat offender and your record of where-and-what could become evidence at a later date.

You may also think that because it happened last month or last year that it’s too late. There’s often a feeling that if you don’t get the cops there immediately the opportunity is lost. Not so. There’s a three-year statute of limitations in California for felony assault. If you have video of numerous assaults, you can write a report and submit each one, along with copies of the video. Of course this also brings up an important point — your case is much more likely to be investigated if you have video or witness testimony. Still, we reported a felony assault last week with only the victim’s testimony. It may not go far, but the Torrance PD now has a record of this clown and the detective has interviewed the suspects. If they ever kill or maims a bicycle rider, it’s been reported that they have already committed assault with a deadly weapon in the past.

Murders don’t require witnesses and video testimony to be reported as crimes. In fact, lots and lots of crimes never get investigated, much less solved. They are still reported as crimes, though, and they still go on the books. A community drowning in reports of violent crime suddenly comes under the microscope … everyone’s microscope.

 

 

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank J. Lehnerz
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 10:45 AM
To: Mike Lasché
Cc: CABO Forum
Subject: Re: [CABOforum] E-bikes are not bicycles - a personal observation

 

A friend from near the the Bay Area sent me that screenshot but I didn't bother to go look at their page until now to confirm. 

Similarly, regarding the lack of enforcement in the black community, post-Floyd, it would be great to see what has happened with crashes involving black pedestrians and cyclists, and injury/fatalities among black cyclists   And, since the lack of enforcement of traffic laws affects not only black people but all people, it would be interesting to see what has happened post-Floyd with all pedestrian crashes and all bicycle crashes.

 

Law Enforcement saves lives!   And, Enforcement is absolutely necessary for bicycle movement and transportation.

 

Mike Lasche



On Aug 17, 2022, at 7:42 PM, F Lehnerz <flehne...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

To add to the insanity! 

<image.png>

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 17, 2022, at 16:29, Mike Lasché <mi...@floridawalksandbikes.org> wrote:

Unfortunately, the move to retard law enforcement, in the name of “equity” is actually hurting black people.    Since enforcement has been curtailed, data from the CDC shows black homicide rates are up.    And, black traffic deaths are significantly up.

 

There is an old truism in transportation.   Each mode of transportation, in order to survive, needs the 3 E’s……engineering, education, and enforcement.     Eliminating enforcement is idiocy.

 

Mike Lasche

It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time

Steve Sailer <feed-32x32.png>

May 25, 2022

<bigstock-Seamless-Pattern-George-Floyd-369730672.jpg>photo credit: Bigstock

On this, the second anniversary of the death of George Floyd, the evidence is now overwhelming: American elites have blood on their hands for their hysterical response to a local police blotter incident that has since brought about many thousands of incremental dead bodies on the pavement. The Floyd fiasco has been the domestic policy equivalent of the Iraq invasion: a massive, self-inflicted national wound.

The proof is in the simultaneous eruption, once the great and the good turned sharply against the police during the mostly peaceful protests, in not just black-on-black shootings, but also in black traffic fatalities. It turns out that cops being made afraid to pull over black reckless drivers and jaywalkers leads more blacks to drive badly and/or pack a pistol.

Here’s a graph I drew up of the monthly per-capita rate of deaths by homicide from 2014 to 2020. I set the non-Hispanic white average of 2010–2014 to one so that you can easily see the racial ratios. Try to pick out when the “racial reckoning” that is being celebrated today began:

<Screen Shot 2022-08-17 at 7.22.34 PM.png>

As you can see, according to the Centers for Disease Control’s WONDER database that tracks the causes of death written on all the death certificates in the country, the chance of an individual black dying violently at the hands of another human being was about 7 to 8 times the chance of a white dying by homicide back in relatively peaceful 2014.

 

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F Lehnerz

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Aug 18, 2022, 3:22:50 PM8/18/22
to Judy Frankel, Mike Lasché, CABO Forum
Hi Judy,
I love Seth’s advice and have used it in the past to report bad motorists, often with photos and video. 
Unfortunately, it would still go against what the SF Bike Coalition is suggesting. 
It also requires the victim visit the appropriate police precinct in person. Last year when I needed a police report for a crime I was a victim of, I initially tried to go in person as I did in the past but was unable to because they were closed to the public due to the pandemic.
When I called on the phone, they indicated they wouldn’t write a report for my incident because I was under 65 years of age. 
   

Frank 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2022, at 12:03, Judy Frankel <judyf...@att.net> wrote:



image001.png

 

 

image002.png

Judy Frankel

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Aug 18, 2022, 3:25:05 PM8/18/22
to F Lehnerz, CABOforum

WTF? Under 65?  There must be a way of delivering it in person even with the pandemic

 

From: F Lehnerz [mailto:flehne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Judy Frankel
Cc: Mike Lasché; CABO Forum
Subject: Re: [CABOforum] E-bikes are not bicycles - a personal observation

 

Hi Judy,

I love Seth’s advice and have used it in the past to report bad motorists, often with photos and video. 

Unfortunately, it would still go against what the SF Bike Coalition is suggesting. 

It also requires the victim visit the appropriate police precinct in person. Last year when I needed a police report for a crime I was a victim of, I initially tried to go in person as I did in the past but was unable to because they were closed to the public due to the pandemic.

When I called on the phone, they indicated they wouldn’t write a report for my incident because I was under 65 years of age. 

   

Frank 

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 18, 2022, at 12:03, Judy Frankel <judyf...@att.net> wrote:



Seth Davidson Law on filing your own police report.. I think this applies to stolen bikes as well as assault.

https://citsb.com/?s=police%20report&fbclid=IwAR1YtOLj8XkAqqc6RjyP7ZsCNXNkVDbBr_2yyszD9nsaLeHqjpBymv9b24U

 

Most people think that the police are the only ones who can write a police report. They’re wrong. What the police are expert at is NOT writing police reports. The police don’t write thousands of reports a year. Why? Because it’s a lot of work and it leads to more work, which leads to even more work, resulting in the worst of all outcomes, more work.

Although it takes a surprising amount of effort to deter victims from reporting felonies, it takes even more effort to take out a piece of paper, ask a few questions, and then write a comprehensive narrative that addresses the statute of limitations, jurisdiction, criminal intent, the other elements of the crime, and identification of the applicable section(s) of the penal code.

However, not only can you write the police report, you should. No one knows what happened better than you. No one can articulate it better than you. No one remembers the details better than you. And best of all, seated at your computer with plenty of time to think and reconstruct and revise and use the dogdamned spell-check for fuck’s sake, no one can write it better than you.

Procedurally, it’s very simple.

1.      Write what happened.

2.      Take it to the police station that has jurisdiction where the assault occurred

3.      Tell them you want report a crime and you’ve already written it up for them.

4.      Have them review it, answer their questions, and hand over the physical evidence (video, photos).

5.      Make sure they assign a DR Number or a file number and they give it to you.

6.      Get the name and email and phone number of the detective assigned to the case.

7.      Go home and email the report to the detective so that you have an electronic trail of having submitted the report.

8.      You’re done. You’ve just reported your first felony. And now someone is gonna have to work.

Practically, there are a number of obstacles you can run into. The desk officer may say it’s a traffic issue. Politely tell him you’re there to report a crime. Emphasize that it concerns an assault with a deadly weapon. If he resists, ask to speak with the watch commander. The police are obligated by law to take your report. Whether they investigate it, or think it has merit, or plan to refer it for prosecution are wholly unrelated issues. You’re there to report a crime and you’ve done their work for them.

Another issue you may run into is that you didn’t get any identifying information other than a description of the vehicle, i.e. “white pick-up.” Didn’t see the driver, don’t have a license plate number You can still, and you should still, make a report. Why? Because that driver may be a repeat offender and your record of where-and-what could become evidence at a later date.

During the first few years of the Trump administration, this unfortunate trend was halted, but the black murder rate remained high.

Then the press and politicians went berserk in late May 2020, egging on rioters and depressing law enforcement. The Floyd Effect drove black homicides to skyrocket, peaking in July 2020 at over 15 times the white rate in 2010–2014, and remaining at an unprecedented ratio for the rest of the year

Hispanic and white deaths by homicide also were unusually high in the second half of 2020, but not the murders of Asians (despite the Narrative that Trump’s March 2020 comments about the “Chinese virus” unleashed a frenzy of violence against Asians).

Their slowest model is a “fixed stealth e-bike” with the battery hidden in the down tube and no throttle. So I thought that might be a legal Type 3 But the website says it has no cutoff at higher speeds so it’s basically 500 watts added to whatever watts you can add via it’s three-speed internal rear hub. The website also says it is street legal in all 50 states, which is obviously not true for California which requires e-assist cut-off at 26 mph.

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Mike Lasché

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Aug 19, 2022, 9:35:36 AM8/19/22
to judyf...@att.net, F Lehnerz, CABOforum
Dear all,

The statement by the San Francisco Bicycle Coalition not only hurts bicyclists and minorities…………..but it reveals how the SFBC marginalizes bicycling.

Is the SFBC urging victims not to report car theft to the police?    If not, then they must justify car theft as something, unlike bike theft, to be important enough to risk police involvement.

Does the SFBC urge victims of burglary not to report this to the police?   If not, then they consider burglary, unlike bike theft, to be serious enough to call the police.

The same logic applies to all manner of other crimes…………mugging, assault, battery, shoplifting, vandalism, theft, etc..    

If SFBC singles out bicycle theft as something not worth the risk to report to police, without demanding non-reportage of other crimes, then it is saying that bicycle theft is less important than these other crimes.

Mike Lasche
Florida Walks and Bikes

<image001.png>

Ramon Zavala

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Aug 23, 2022, 3:56:18 PM8/23/22
to CABOforum
Hello all,

Admittedly, this conversation thread has digressed from a discussion of the original assertion for discussion "E-bikes are not bicycles". I apologize for piling on.

Preface: I am a Mexican-American who grew up in genuine poverty here in California. My parents were addicts and my dad was a felon. I was victimized multiple times by thieves (bike, robbery) before the age of 18 and my own dad victimized many others. I've also been inappropriately searched by police and sat on a curb (cuffed) while my 100% clean record was being searched for warrants. I give this preface not to elevate my opinion above others, but to simply show that I have personal insight on multiple aspects of the discussion.

I think the SF Bike Coalition's position to deter people from reporting theft to the police only perpetuates the victimization of the general public and puts poorer people at greater risk of victimization. The most frequent victims of theft are the poor because they are so consistently disenfranchised that they don't bother trying to report a theft. They are easy/safe targets. Here at UC Davis, 40% of our undergraduates receive Federal Pell Grants (financial aid reserved only for those with the most exceptional need). We KNOW bike theft is absolutely rampant. We know the poor students who are clawing their way out of poverty and taking on student debt are being victimized...

Why wouldn't we stop the thieves from victimizing our students?

Bike thieves are not Robin Hoods. They do not investigate their potential victims to see if they're rich, corporate oppressors and the prevalence of bike theft on college campus is enough proof. They're only concerned with the value of the bike and the speed of the theft. In many places, they're party to a type of organized crime (intentionally or not) with bikes being stolen in one county, trafficked en masse to another county, and then resold beyond where victims are unwilling to pursue recovery.

Theft is harmful. It erodes trust in neighbors and communities and makes people irrationally afraid of other people. Bike theft causes immediate and lasting damage to people who rely on their bicycles for transportation and assuming bike theft is an effectively-victimless crime upon a privileged class is ignorant.

Discouraging people from reporting a bike theft only serves to perpetuate harm in the community by eliminating the deterrent (risk of incarceration) to committing the crime.

Ramon

Ramon Zavala

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Aug 23, 2022, 5:46:36 PM8/23/22
to CABOforum
NOTE: I'm re-submitted my comment in an effort to rectify some display issues that have been brought to my attention. My apologies.

Ramon

Mike Lasché

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Aug 24, 2022, 9:20:28 AM8/24/22
to zav...@gmail.com, CABOforum
Dear Ramon,

There is no need to apologize for expressing yourself.   I think that no one could rationally describe your comments as “piling on”.

I absolutely agree with you that bike thieves are not Robin Hoods.   It is truly sad to see, in this day where people discover new ideas without thinking them through, that some people are more concerned with the rights of criminals than they are of victims…………..with the victims, in the case of bike theft, often being people who travel by bicycle due to economic necessity.

So that I don’t commit the crime of “piling on”, I will finish by asking this rhetorical question.    How would we, or even the SFBC, react if Governor Newsom, or Mayor Breed, announced that all bicycle thefts would no longer be investigated?    I suspect that these politicians would receive a hail of condemnation for marginalizing and discriminating against bicyclists.    And, it wouldn’t shock me if the SFBC joined in to condemn the Governor and Mayor.

Mike Lasche
Florida Walks and Bikes

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