City of Yucaipa (W/B Yucaipa Blvd x 5th St) - Marked "Bike Lane" Death Trap at Signaled Intersection
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Clinton Sandusky
Jun 8, 2022, 12:11:20 PM6/8/22
to Cabo Forum, Jim Baross, Gary Cziko
You cannot make this stuff up! Would you want to be there?! The "paint" is NOT your friend here!!!
Clint Sandusky
CABO, District 8 Rep.
Pete van Nuys
Jun 8, 2022, 1:25:50 PM6/8/22
to clint.s...@gmail.com, CABOforum
Classic "Coffin Corner."
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clint.sandusky
Jun 8, 2022, 1:30:34 PM6/8/22
to Pete van Nuys, CABOforum
Why do cities even do this?!
Of course, you cannot find this type of treatment (especially buffered) in the CA MUTCD!
Clint
Sent from my Galaxy
F Lehnerz
Jun 8, 2022, 1:36:29 PM6/8/22
to clint.s...@gmail.com, Cabo Forum, Jim Baross, Gary Cziko
Thanks for reminding me.
We have a few offenders inside this state. To be more specific, Jim, Serge, and my areas.
You cannot make this stuff up! Would you want to be there?! The "paint" is NOT your friend here!!!Clint SanduskyCABO, District 8 Rep.
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F Lehnerz
Jun 8, 2022, 1:45:37 PM6/8/22
to clint.s...@gmail.com, Pete van Nuys, CABOforum
In the guv, we train the young people to do mindless tasks until they can supervise other young people doing mindless tasks. There's an actual talent pool there if only we’d develop it.
Vincent H. O'Neil, A Pause in the Perpetual Rotation
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:30, clint.sandusky <clint.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Jim Baross
Jun 8, 2022, 1:52:22 PM6/8/22
to Cabo Forum, San Diego Bike Forum
From my perspective, there are apparently two competing approaches (pun intended) to how various modes of traffic are to deal with each other at intersections. I'll characterize these as Separatist or Inclusionist. Both approaches are worthy of consideration when deciding on designs for an intersection, but halfway measures, like the examples that Clint provided, seem likely to contribute to more crashes and delays than expected.
The example Clint provides has pavement Bike Lane stripes and a buffer zone without any dashing of the BL stripes within 200 feet of the intersection (see CA-MUTCD). It has no signs or signals giving right of way information, evidently using the Separatist approach; motorists are discouraged from merging into the Bike Lane space and bicyclists are encouraged to stay to the right in the Bike Lane when traveling straight or turning right (or even to make a left turn?!). Many of us refer to this approach as a "coffin corner" subject to Right Hook and Left Cross hazards. The solid BL striping might be mitigated effectively if a traffic signal was present that provided for movements of bicyclists separate from movements of motor vehicles, along with a No Right Turn on Red signage. I have been told that traffic signal separation of bike and motor vehicle turning movements is less necessary at low-volume intersections. We may learn more as time passes. We all may have seen further efforts to mitigate the "coffin corner" situation with extending a Bike Lane dashed and sometimes green pavement through the intersection, and/or also by installing roadside signs that alert motorists (or sometimes bicyclists) that they must yield to one or the other mode.
The Separatist approach seems to be expecting turning motorists to deal with bicyclists as they are supposed to deal with pedestrians in a crosswalk; yield to them. This fails too often because bicyclists travel much faster than pedestrians and therefore cannot easily to seen at all or in time over the shoulder of the motorist. This interaction has been fatal to several bicyclists.
An Inclusionist approach, one supported by years of experience with Bike Lane striping (see CA-MUTCD) would have the Bike Lane striping become dashed 200 or more feet back from the intersection with the intention to communicate to bicyclists and motorists that merging may be expected and appropriate for lawful positioning for intended destinations - right side of a lane for right turning, centered in a lane for continuing straight, left side of a lane for performing a left turn. Intersections with higher volume, speed, or expected use by traffic-averse bicyclists should consider providing clear opportunities for bicyclists to choose to use the crosswalk either as pedestrians or with a separated traffic signal controls as described above.
I hope that it's sufficient to say that Right Hook and Left Cross crashes and fatalities are not avoided but are more likely with the design shown.
Jim Baross
Board Member, League of American Bicyclists
President, Calif. Assoc. of Bicycling Organizations
Board Member, San Diego County Bicycle Coalition
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Alan Forkosh
Jun 8, 2022, 3:11:10 PM6/8/22
to CABOforum
CA[Sent only to Caboforum because I am not on the San Diego list—forward if you want].
There’s a third alternative, the protected intersection. This actually increases the separation. One has been constructed at the intersection of Hopkins and The Alameda in Berkeley. You can read an explanation at https://bikeeastbay.org/news/clever-design-brings-protected-intersection-berkeley. I’ve attached both a a diagram and satellite view of the intersection from Apple Maps. Note that the lower left corner is somewhat obscured by tree cover in the satellite view.
On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Jim Baross <jimb...@cox.net> wrote:
From my perspective, there are apparently two competing approaches (pun intended) to how various modes of traffic are to deal with each other at intersections. I'll characterize these as Separatist or Inclusionist. Both approaches are worthy of consideration when deciding on designs for an intersection, but halfway measures, like the examples that Clint provided, seem likely to contribute to more crashes and delays than expected.
...
William Sellin
Jun 8, 2022, 3:31:29 PM6/8/22
to Clint Sandusky, Cabo Forum, Jim Baross, Gary Cziko
Just pull out page 1401 of the MUTCD on buffered bike lanes at an intersection: Figure 9C-104(CA) and give it to the mayor of Yucaipa…
Hell- add some green to it too!
Infrastructure Review Committee
Area Director for Caltrans District 12
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<Sandusky_W-B Yucaipa Blvd x 5th St_Bike Lane Danger Trap.jpg><Sandusky_W-B Yucaipa Blvd x 5th St_Bike Lane Danger Trap_Close-up.jpg>
William Sellin
Jun 8, 2022, 3:38:20 PM6/8/22
to Frank J. Lehnerz, Clint Sandusky, Cabo Forum, Jim Baross, Gary Cziko
Night image @ Chatsworth - may be a buffered Class II not done right (Detail 39A) - or is it a Class IV ?
Second @ Lincoln Ave is a bollard separated Class IV - all bets off on that application…right hook like in Oregon? Could convert to a shared Class II 50 to 200 feet before the corner… but then it wouldn’t be “protected”. Clearly the bollards have been driven over as folks merge right to share the cycle track to turn right from...
Infrastructure Review Committee
Area Director for Caltrans District 12
On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:36 AM, F Lehnerz <flehne...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for reminding me.
We have a few offenders inside this state. To be more specific, Jim, Serge, and my areas.
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You cannot make this stuff up! Would you want to be there?! The "paint" is NOT your friend here!!!Clint SanduskyCABO, District 8 Rep.--
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<Sandusky_W-B Yucaipa Blvd x 5th St_Bike Lane Danger Trap.jpg><Sandusky_W-B Yucaipa Blvd x 5th St_Bike Lane Danger Trap_Close-up.jpg>
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