Re: [SDCBC] Does "Do Not Pass" apply when passing a bicyclist?

[Serge Issakov]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Derek Hofmann <derek....@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is a picture of a motorist passing a bicyclist (me) by crossing the double yellow in a DO NOT PASS zone.

This is the norm, not the exception, on the flat northern stretch of Camino Del Sur (right about here).

    Derek

Technically, no, there is no exception to the no-crossing-solid-stripe-to-pass rule that applies when passing bicyclists.

--------------------------

Double Lines

21460.  (a) When double parallel solid lines are in place, no person driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof, except as permitted in this section.

(b) When the double parallel lines, one of which is broken, are in place, no person driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof, except as follows:

(1) That the driver on that side of the roadway in which the broken line is in place may cross over the double line or drive to the left thereof when overtaking or passing other vehicles.

(2) As provided in Section 21460.5.

(c) Either of the markings as specified in subdivision (a) or (b) does not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking when (1) turning to the left at any intersection or into or out of a driveway or private road, or (2) making a U-turn under the rules governing that turn, and either of the markings shall be disregarded when authorized signs have been erected designating offcenter traffic lanes as permitted under Section 21657.

--------------------------

But if it's done reasonably and safely I'm guessing a citation is unlikely.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21460.htm

Serge

P.S.

CCing caboforum list since this is a CA question.

[John Forester]

There are two different situations in which the double-yellow line is
applied. One situation is when the traffic engineer has decided that
nowhere along the roadway should a driver be allowed to bulge over the
line. The other situation is where overtaking over the center line is
normall allowed except in locations with sight distances too short for a
normal overtake being done in safety. That "normal overtake" is of one
motor vehicle overtaking another that is traveling quite fast, though
not up to the limit. That operation requires a certain sight distance
for adequate safety. However, in the case of overtaking a cyclist, who
is traveling, presumably, much slower than the speed limit, the sight
distance required for safe overtaking is much less. In these
circumstances, I see no particular need to consider that the law
supersedes engineering facts. It has been my experience that police
don't bother with short-distance overtaking when the sight distance is
safe; I've seen them do it themselves.

--
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481 fore...@johnforester.com
www.johnforester.com

[Ellen Fletcher]

I have that same experience very frequently on roads in and around Palo Alto.

Ellen Fletcher

on 11/22/09 5:51 PM, Serge Issakov at serge....@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Derek Hofmann <derek....@gmail.com> wrote:

Here <http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhofmann/4125908087/>  is a picture of a motorist passing a bicyclist (me) by crossing the double yellow in a DO NOT PASS zone.

[Bob Sutterfield]

Motorists cross the double yellow to pass me all the time, particularly on narrow winding mountain roads.  I'm OK with that, so long as they don't pull back in until they've completed passing me.

One of our concerns regarding the new center line rumble strip installation on CA-9 west of Saratoga, was that since motorists would be less inclined to cross the double yellow, they would be more inclined to pass cyclists too closely in the same lane.  I don't know what sort of data were collected before, nor after, to discern the results.

[Bob Shanteau]

Bob Sutterfield wrote:
> One of our concerns regarding the new center line rumble strip
> installation on CA-9 west of Saratoga, was that since motorists would
> be less inclined to cross the double yellow, they would be more
> inclined to pass cyclists too closely in the same lane. I don't know
> what sort of data were collected before, nor after, to discern the
> results.

Gee, I would hope that they are collecting data. Otherwise this
statement in the CA MUTCD about center line rumble strips being used
"experimentally" is, at best, misleading:

***
Section 3B.106(CA) Rumble Strips
...
Centerline Rumble Strips:
Support:
Centerline rumble strips are currently being used experimentally at
2 and 3 lane locations in California and across the nation as a tool to
address drift across the centerline collisions.
***

Bob Shanteau

[Al Williams]

All they have to be doing is searching the cross-the-centerline crashes before and after the "improvement."  If there is one less crash per unit of time afterwards, declare "success."  Statistics? Significant differences? What are those?

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[Jim Baross]

San Diego sports several relatively narrow neighborhood/residential streets
with double yellow center lines; bicyclists are passed routinely by
motorists crossing and/or straddling the double yellow.

It seems that some TEs aren't digging deep enough in their quiver of tools
to get the appropriate markings or double yellow crossing prohibition laws
should be modified.

Jim Baross

-----Original Message-----
From: joni...@aol.com [mailto:joni...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:48 AM
To: SDCBC
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Does "Do Not Pass" apply when passing a bicyclist?

It has been my experience that police
> don't bother with short-distance overtaking when the sight distance is
> safe; I've seen them do it themselves.

A few random thoughts:

- If we were to use "I've seen the police do it themselves" as a
standard for our driving, I think we would all be rather poor
drivers...

- As far as the two different situations when the double-yellow is
applied: It would seem to me that if passing is appropriate/
reasonable, then it should never have been a double yellow. Myself,
when I am driving (or cycling), I respect the double-yellow as a no
passing zone.

- The assumption of the slow traveling cyclist is common and often
warranted but when the speed limit is 30mph or less then it can result
in an awkward situation as the motorist is only overtaking the cyclist
because the motorist is speeding.

Jon Isaacs

> 619-644-5481    fores...@johnforester.comwww.johnforester.com

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