CALIFORNIA NEEDS A CANAL FROM OREGON TO NORTHERN CALIFORNIA

[Voter]

A drought could come back at any time, and last for years or decades.
A water shortage in the state of California is unacceptable.

California needs a canal from Oregon to the 2 great lakes in Northern California -
Lake Trinity and Lake Shasta.
Farmers should never be without water in the U.S.A. Farms and universities are
among the foundations of any country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_reservoirs_of_California

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Lake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shasta_Lake


Okay, here is a repost of what I have learned in case anyone is interested in
this, and it helps anyone to have these links (below).

3 rivers cross the Cascades, the Columbia River, the Klamath River, and the
Pit River. The Columbia River runs through the Portland/Vancouver, Oregon
area in the north of Oregon State, and forms most of the border between
Oregon State and Washington State.

The Klamath River and the Pit River cross the Cascades in Northern
California. The Klamath River connects to Trinity Lake through the Trinity
River, and the Pit River connects directly to Lake Shasta. This map shows
the Cascades range and the rivers:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Cascaderangemap.jpg

One idea is to get more water into Lake Trinity or into Lake Shasta, so we
can get more water out of them.

But no one even yet answered my question: Do our canals even carry water to
the Central Valley from these effectively yet? The map of the California
water systems doesn't indicate:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/California_water_system.jpg
It looks like they connect to the Sacramento River.

However another idea is to make another Lake/Reservoir like Lake Trinity out
of the Klamath River. This river apparently is currently emptying into the
ocean. A lake just past the South Fork of the Trinity River might be a
possible location. The South Fork already connects to the Lake Trinity.
Another idea could be anywhere along the South Fork of the Trinity River
after the part that connects to Lake Trinity branches off:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Klamathmap.jpg

If not these, perhaps there's another river that can be turned into a
greater reservoir somewhere else in the state. I included some maps of all
the rivers below.

As for connecting California's Lakes and River's to greater water sources,
the Columbia River, along the Northern Oregon border, may be the first
Northern point, connecting it to the Klamath River of the Pit River. The
major rivers that run through Oregon, and connect to the Columbia River
however, the Willamette River, and the Deschuttes River, both run South to
North.

Perhaps we could connect by running a canal east of the Cascades.
As you can see from the Cascades map, this could connect to either the
Klamath or the Pit Rivers:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Cascaderangemap.jpg

Or maybe we could damn up Wickiup Reservoir, the source of the Deschuttes
River - or some place along the Deschuttes River - and make the water run
South into the Pit River or the Klamath River instead of North into the
Columbia?

http://www.21stcentech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/California_water_system.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/California_rivers.jpg
http://www.geo.hunter.cuny.edu/tbw/ncc/Notes/chapter12.humans.env/California.Water.Project.map.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Sacramentorivermap.jpg
http://www.beriverfriendly.net/docs/files/Image/Sacramento_River_Watershed_Map_large.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/PitRiverMap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/SanJoaquinRiverMap.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/TulareBasinMap.jpg
http://geology.com/state-map/maps/oregon-rivers-map.gif
http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/usa/washington-physical-map.gif
http://geology.com/canada/british-columbia-map.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_River
That Goose Lake that the Pit Rivers connects from is some alkaline or saline
probably toxic lake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_River
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_River_(California)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_River
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Klamath_Lake

http://www.geo.hunter.cuny.edu/tbw/ncc/Notes/chapter12.humans.env/transferring.water.from.one.place.to.another.html
According to this website: "alfalfa, one of the most water-intensive crops,
is grown in the southern California desert. It uses about one-fourth of
California's irrigation water but makes up only 0.1% of the state's
economy." Is this true?!? Is there any reason to grow alfalfa? Of course,
what is 0.1% of the state's economy? What percent of the state's produce is
this? argh

All this stuff is just supposed to be informative. Nothing is conclusive.
We need to think freely, and optimistically, and positively, of ways to
store and obtain water in California. Don't let them tell you it can't be
done! Think outside the box!

As I said above:
One idea to take note of, is to make another Lake/Reservoir like Lake
Trinity out of the Klamath River. This river apparently is currently
emptying into the ocean. A lake just past the South Fork of the Trinity
River might be a possible location. The South Fork already connects to the
Lake Trinity. Another idea could be anywhere along the South Fork of the
Trinity River after the part that connects to Lake Trinity branches off:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Klamathmap.jpg

According to one website, the Central Valley produces one-third of all
produce grown in the United States. So this matters people!!






visualization in response to Siri Crews wrote:
> I think desalinisation has been tried in places like Marin, but it's still too
> expensive.

Would it be to much to ask for you to speak knowledgeably about your state?

http://poseidonwater.com/
Carlsbad will be the largest seawater desalination plant in the Western
Hemisphere.

Project Capacity: 50 million gallons per day

The Huntington Beach Desalination Facility is a 50-million gallon per
day project currently in late-stage development.

Project Capacity: 50 million gallons per day

http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article3017597.html

They are building the Carlsbad Desalination Project, which will convert
as much as 56 million gallons of seawater each day into drinking water
for San Diego County residents. The project, with a price tag of $1
billion, is emerging from the sand like an industrial miracle. In
California’s highly regulated coastal zone, it took nearly 15 years to
move from concept to construction, surviving 14 legal challenges along
the way.

The water will cost $2,257 per acre-foot, about double the price of the
authority’s most expensive current supply, which is water imported from
the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta more than 400 miles away.

Under this so-called “take-or-pay” contract, the water authority can
purchase an additional 8,000 acre-feet each year if necessary, which
reduces the price slightly, to about $2,000 per acre-foot.

One acre-foot is enough to serve two average homes for a year. At a
total output of 56,000 acre-feet, the plant will meet 7 percent of San
Diego County’s annual water demand.

[Voter]

So finding the best way through from the Columbia river which separates Oregon
State and Washington State; or south of that, might be what it comes to. The
possibility of the far coastal west or the east might as well be looked at as the
initial notion to go straight down from Portland or somewhere South unto Lake
Shasta, and/or Lake Trinity:

Finding the best way through the Topography might be what it comes to:
http://www.davidrumsey.com/rumsey/Size4/D5005/7127000.jpg

[Voter]

https://www.google.com/search?q=western+u.s.+topography&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin4vfEmt_TAhXLrFQKHUodAgEQ_AUICigB&biw=1429&bih=994

[Voter]

Just what I have so far.... a pipeline rather than a canal is what would be, there
is an oil pipeline. Another idea is an undersea pipeline. Not sure if any of
this is possible, but the Columbia river which starts in British Columbia is
emptying water into the ocean. Just brainstorming, not sure if this is possible.
Posting now as not sure when time to work on more.

The Columbia River starts in British Columbia and flows down and into the Pacific
Ocean:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_River#/media/File:Columbiarivermap.png
http://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/61/89861-004-C087F2C4.gif

The Willamette river in Oregon flows from South to North, downhill, and into the
Columbia River.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Cascaderangemap.jpg

You can see from the Oregon topographic map how difficult the possibilities of
canal may seem at first to be:
http://www.outlookmaps.com/map-images/oregon-topographic-map.jpg


However the distance from Columbia River/Portland Oregon the Lake Shasta and Lake
Trinity is but 300 miles as the bird flies. The distance from San Francisco to
Los Angeles is 350 miles as the bird flies. So putting in a separate and new
canal from Portland to Lake Shasta/Trinity is like putting in a canal from San
Francisco to Los Angeles. It would require pumps. But it would potentially
supply water needed for this bread basket of America.

Another thought was along the coast which without analysis I do not know if will
be of any difference.

You can see on the California topographic map, Lake Shasta is the very top of the
Central Valley, a mere 10 miles north of the city of Redding, in Shasta County:
http://www.outlookmaps.com/map-images/california-topographic-map.jpg

(Even with zooming in, it's hard to read the Legend. It looks like the yellow may
be 2,000ft, the red 4,000ft, and the purple 8,000ft.
For comparison, and as you can see on the map, for anyone who's driven the much
traveled route of the Grapevine between the Central Valley and Los Angeles, has a
max elevation of the Tejon Pass at 4,160 feet.)


As you can see here, half the 300 miles distance possibly - 150 miles - is
possibly over mountains 2,000ft-4,000ft high:
https://image.ibb.co/kPRSa5/California_Oregon_Topographic.png
Perhaps someone can find a passage through the mountains... :(

oh well for this post...

Except this paper echoed my interest:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/sdut-water-pipeline-oregon-california-columbia-2015apr10-story.html


here's the rest I wrote:


A drought is absolutely going to return in 1, 3, 5, 10 or more years, and could
last for any amount of time. And all our orchards and crops could die out.

In recent times, there has been a drought in 1841, 1864, 1924, 1929-1934, the
1950s, 1976-1977, 1986-1992, 2007-2009, and 2011-2017.
These droughts are spaced apart, 23yrs, 60yrs, 5yrs, 16yrs, <26yrs, 11yrs, 15yrs,
and 2yrs, respectively.
These droughts have lasted, 1yr, 1yr, 6yrs, 1yrs+, 2yrs, 7yrs, 2yrs, and 7yrs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Historic_droughts
The most recent drought was the worst drought in history.

The population of the State of California is going to increase and increase, and
it is our interest on this planet to develop greater civilization in California.


But is it even possible to pump water 4,000 feet up a hill?

So this possibly wouldn't be a canal, but a huge pipeline.



California State Water Project:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Water_Project
Notes that the Edmonston Pumping Plant currently pumps water almost 2,000 feet up
over the Tehachapi Mountains to South Eastern California.
You can see the yellow triangle near the bottom of the Aqueduct above Los Angeles
County:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/California_State_Water_Project.png
This was built in the late 1970s, early 1980s, so 40 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonston_Pumping_Plant
http://mavensphotoblog.com/2011/08/27/the-big-lift-a-photo-tour-of-the-state-water-projects-pumps-at-edmonston/

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9440969,-118.8270109,2465m/data=!3m1!1e3
https://goo.gl/maps/ietfa4fA5gy

You can see apparently top left to bottom right:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.758568,-118.7564249,16150a,35y,37.51t/data=!3m1!1e3
https://goo.gl/maps/USB1mi6teTM2

The Oregon pipeline project would be different, a bigger deal, but a more
intelligent design.


As noted above:

As you can see here, half the 300 miles distance possibly - 150 miles - is
possibly over mountains 2,000ft-4,000ft high:
https://image.ibb.co/kPRSa5/California_Oregon_Topographic.png
Perhaps someone can find a passage through the mountains... :(

This paper echoed my interest though:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/sdut-water-pipeline-oregon-california-columbia-2015apr10-story.html

so otherwise hahahaha on this sadly. Desalinization? More water out of the Sierras?

World’s Longest Under Water Gas Pipeline, 1166km “Giant Serpent”:
http://www.industrytap.com/worlds-longest-under-water-gas-pipeline-1166km-giant-serpent/339


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_pipeline



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus_Water_Supply_Project
A 80 km (50 mi) long under sea pipeline of 1,600 mm (63 in) in 250 m (820 ft)
depth in Mediterranean Sea will transfer water from Anamurium Plant in Turkey to
Güzelyalı Pumping Station in Northern Cyprus.
The total investment cost of the project is budgeted at 782 million Turkish lira
approx. $432 million USD.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/30/turkey-builds-massive-pipeline-to-send-drinking-wa/

U.S. Oil Pipeline map:
http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/north_america_pipelines_map.jpg
http://cdn.oilprice.com/uploads/AC1008.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Alaska_Pipeline_System

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_pipelines

[Voter]

On 6/23/2017 12:49 PM, Voter wrote:
> Just what I have so far.... a pipeline rather than a canal is what would be, there
> is an oil pipeline. Another idea is an undersea pipeline. Not sure if any of
> this is possible, but the Columbia river which starts in British Columbia is
> emptying water into the ocean. Just brainstorming, not sure if this is possible.
> Posting now as not sure when time to work on more.

Watch out for mountains under water, just as well. If closer to the shore,
possibly not as high. See https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ for
ocean depth. If you zoom in it tells you how deep it is.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:49:30 -0700, Voter <Vo...@Vote2016.com> wrote:

>Just what I have so far.... a pipeline rather than a canal is what would be, there
>is an oil pipeline. Another idea is an undersea pipeline. Not sure if any of
>this is possible, but the Columbia river which starts in British Columbia is
>emptying water into the ocean. Just brainstorming, not sure if this is possible.
>Posting now as not sure when time to work on more.

Yea, that's it ... just kill everything that depends on the
brackish mixing zone.

Why should Oregon give its water to all the fucks in
California anyway ?

[Voter]

On 6/23/2017 12:58 PM, Voter wrote:
> On 6/23/2017 12:49 PM, Voter wrote:
>> Just what I have so far.... a pipeline rather than a canal is what would be, there
>> is an oil pipeline. Another idea is an undersea pipeline. Not sure if any of
>> this is possible, but the Columbia river which starts in British Columbia is
>> emptying water into the ocean. Just brainstorming, not sure if this is possible.
>> Posting now as not sure when time to work on more.
>
> Watch out for mountains under water, just as well. If closer to the shore,
> possibly not as high. See https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/bathymetry/ for
> ocean depth. If you zoom in it tells you how deep it is.

Actually a floating hose or pipeline, held up by buoys, and weighed down by
weights to hold it at a certain depth level, would avoid the problem of ocean
floor depth changes.


But additionally, the following is of important note:

As you can see here, the Klamath Diversion project was once suggested, but blocked:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Diversion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ah_Pah_Dam_project,_Klamath_river,_1951.svg


The Ah Pah Dam was suggested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah_Pah_Dam


Perhaps the Klamath Diversion project should be re-examined:

For according to Wikipedia, in the 1950s,

"Although many different versions of the plan were put forth, all would have
involved damming the Klamath River, as well as the Trinity River and several other
tributaries. A tunnel would have carried much of the Klamath's water to the
Sacramento River, whose flow would be routed around the Sacramento-San Joaquin
Delta and travel under the Tehachapi Mountains to the Los Angeles Basin. However,
the Klamath River has one of the western continental United States' most
significant salmon runs, and building the diversion would have all but destroyed
this productive fishery. Both commercial fishermen and Native Americans—namely the
Yurok—opposed the plan, as did the city of Los Angeles. The city saw the Klamath
Diversion as a "ploy to encourage it to relinquish its claim on the share of the
river [the Colorado] it considered its own"

"Ironically, the City of Los Angeles and other entities within Southern California
– who would be among the principal beneficiaries – heavily opposed the plan. The
prevailing local belief was that the Klamath Diversion was a plot by politicians
in the other Colorado River basin states (especially Arizona) to get Southern
California to let go of the water it was taking from the Colorado. Combined with
concerted opposition from Northern California voters, who saw it as just another
water grab by the thirsty south that would damage the ecology, fisheries and
natural beauty of the North Coast, the project never left the drawing boards."

"Most of the North Coast rivers originally slated for damming have since been
granted National Wild and Scenic River status, effectively eliminating the
possibility for such a project."

Ecology.
Fisheries.
Natural Beauty.

How much merit is there to this when we need water for food? Is there any way to
protect both? Can research and a plan, change "National Wild and Scenic River
status?:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Wild_and_Scenic_Rivers_System
https://www.rivers.gov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Wild_and_Scenic_Rivers
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1912/index.htm
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1912/plan-your-visit.htm
https://www.nps.gov/ncrc/rivers/



The Ah Pah Dam was suggested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah_Pah_Dam

"Ah Pah Dam was a proposed dam on the Klamath River in the U.S. state of
California proposed by the United States Bureau of Reclamation as part of its
United Western Investigation study in 1951. It was to have been 813 feet (248 m)
high and was to be located 12 miles (19 km) upstream of the river's mouth. It
would stand almost as tall as the Transamerica Pyramid building in San Francisco,
but would be much more massive. It would flood 40 miles (64 km) of the Trinity
River, including the Yurok, Karuk and Hupa Indian Reservations, the lower Salmon
River, and 70 miles (110 km) of the Klamath River, creating a reservoir with a
volume of 15,000,000 acre feet (19 km3) – two-thirds of the size of Lake Mead, and
becoming the largest reservoir in California. The water would flow by gravity
through a tunnel 60 miles (97 km) long to the Sacramento River just above Redding
and onward to Southern California, in an extreme diversion plan known as the
Klamath Diversion. The tunnel would have been located near the southernmost extent
of the reservoir. It was named in the language of the Yurok people."



This says that we just damn up the Klamath River and have the largest reservoir in
California.


So if we dam up the river then we have a big lake like Lake Shasta. How's that
for scenic? Very pretty.
http://summitretreat.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Shasta-Dam-067.jpg

For reference the 15 Million acre feet of water suggested compares to 4.5 Million
acre feet of water in Lake Shasta and 2.5 Million acre feet of water in Lake
Trinity. So this 15 million is nearly twice as much as the 8 million acre feet of
those two combined.

This looks to be about 12 miles from the mouth of the river:
https://binged.it/2hZcFWs The Yurok Indian Reservation. It probably could still
be done.

Here is the mouth of the Klamath, here goes all the water emptying into the
Pacific Ocean: https://binged.it/2y7fysn

Okay so are we really with scenic lakes rather than scenic rivers. Are these
rivers used for anything. Lake Shasta is. But no water = no industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Dam , Annual generation 359 million kWh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shasta_Dam , Annual generation 1,806.5 GWh
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California The State needs up
to 50,000 MegaWatts hours. Or up to 50,000 Megawatts at all times. So, don't
know about that, but if economical, we should make it as energy profitable as
possible. Don't know if this is true at all. United States total supposedly
produces 4,350,800 Gigawatt hours, which at 10% might translate California to
435,080 Gigawatt hours, or 435,080,000 Megawatt hours
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production so this
is obviously off so who knows. I need a physics teacher to explain this, without
me taking 30+ minutes to study it on my own, but the point is, the damn could
produce a lot of energy.


Obviously if there's water just emptying into the Pacific Ocean in Northern
California, then we might not need to go all the way to the Columbia River, but if
plausible, could pipe it from the mouth of the ocean here in California.


Less than 6,567 Yurok people may hold their Salmon festival as important as food
and water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurok

http://www.yuroktribe.org/salmonfestival.htm#.htm
The festival draws 3,500 people each year.

Here's a map of the Klamath again:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Klamathmap.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Klamath_Basin_map.png
That last part there flows South to North there, and empties into the Ocean I guess.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurok_Indian_Reservation
with almost 5,000 enrolled members, the Yurok Tribe is California's largest Indian
Tribe.[citation needed]... The 2000 census reported a resident population of 1,103
persons on reservation territory, mostly in the community of Klamath, at the
reservation's north end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath,_California - Here Wikipedia notes at least
325 Native Americans live in Klamath.

Here's some video of their festival: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tLZYXVwloo

However in 2016 the Eureka Times reported:
"the Yurok Tribe had to remove salmon from the menu at this year’s Klamath Salmon
Festival, because of the record low fish run."
http://www.times-standard.com/article/NJ/20160722/NEWS/160729962

"The shortage of fish for this year’s festival is largely due to poor water
management practices. In 2014 and 2015 almost all of the juvenile Klamath River
chinook and coho salmon died from a deadly parasite known as Ceratonova shasta,
formerly called Ceratomyxa shasta.

“There are not enough fish to feed our families, many of which will need food
assistance, as a result of this manmade catastrophe,” Chairman O’Rourke said.

Chinook salmon is a primary part of a seasonal diet that has served the Tribe
since time immemorial. The downturn in fish numbers has coincided with an increase
in health issues, such as diabetes, among the Tribal membership.

Cancelling the salmon lunch is just one of the sacrifices that the Tribe has had
to make this year. The Yurok Tribal Council decided that there will be no
commercial fishing this season.

The Yurok Tribe resides on the banks of the Klamath River in Northern California
and is the largest federally recognized tribe in the state. The natural
resource-based Tribe is best known for its award-winning river restoration,
language preservation and cultural protection programs."


Another view of the Klamath there: https://binged.it/2y7J6WQ

Here's a couple views of the Klamath just emptying its fresh water into the ocean:
http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/files/feature/2017/klamath-1980.jpg
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/heraldandnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/2e/a2ed0f71-1442-55ee-8867-ac1340a695dc/5792a94866aa0.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C882


Here's another notion that may stand in between, the notion of the ecosystem of an
Estuary:
https://www.oceanfirstinstitute.org/blog/get-involved-with-national-estuaries-week/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VffNvdeYxcY
So estuaries support some living species. I don't know if damming the river means
we have to destroy that estuary. Maybe the mouth emptying to the sea could be
made smaller and the river could still have some water in it. Or maybe the ocean
could just flow in or something. You know make it like a tidal wetland. What's
the difference. I don't know.


It looks like the state park near there - Del Norte Coast Redwoods State Park is
park of the California Coast Ranges biosphere (reserve)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coast_Ranges_(reserve)
But it looks like that might end north of the mouth of the river.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5809682,-124.1000875,12z

--
Currently the Federal Government has the following projects in California going:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Project

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_River_Hydroelectric_Project

And additionally the State has the California State Water Project:

[Voter]

On 10/28/2017 12:10 PM, Voter wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurok_Indian_Reservation
> with almost 5,000 enrolled members, the Yurok Tribe is California's largest Indian
> Tribe.[citation needed]... The 2000 census reported a resident population of 1,103
> persons on reservation territory, mostly in the community of Klamath, at the
> reservation's north end.

That's "1,103 persons on reservation territory, mostly in the community of

Klamath, at the reservation's north end."

This isn't where the reservoir would be, 12 miles inland. Additionally perhaps as
part of the development plan, the reservoir also could be stocked with fishable
salmon, and we could heal their parasite problem.


Here's what the final reservoir was suggested to look like, take a good look at
it. All we're doing is blocking the water from flowing out to the sea and
creating a reservoir. It's conceivable it could create a much more scenic, and
much more usable, total area:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Ah_Pah_Dam_project%2C_Klamath_river%2C_1951.svg

At the very least we could ask the Indians if they would like this reservoir. Or
perhaps the people of California have the prerogative...

The Ah Pah Dam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah_Pah_Dam

[Voter]

Here's a map of their total reservation:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yurok+Reservation,+Trinity-Klamath,+CA/@41.3685586,-124.1596287,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x54d1a8156f591fd5:0xbcbca4e17d7d8801!8m2!3d41.3724029!4d-123.9009415

[Voter]

There's apparently another 1,238 people on the Resighini Rancheria. But that is
in the north also, 2-3 miles south of Klamath. Map:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Resighini+Rancheria,+Hoppaw,+CA+95548/@41.5043213,-124.0524423,12.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x54d05440dd654ea5:0x2007c5a3b18a4360!8m2!3d41.5133976!4d-124.022632

They may have to be consulted too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resighini_Rancheria ((this page says the population
is 31, but census.gov seems to confirm the 1,238:
https://www.census.gov/2010census/popmap/ipmtext.php?fl=4760 )) :


"Fishing Controversy

The Resighini rancheria is completely enclosed within the Yurok reservation. As a
result, fishing conflicts have arisen with the Yurok tribe. The Yurok tribe is the
largest in California with about 6000 members. The Yurok tribe claims jurisdiction
over Resighini lands and interferes with tribal members’ ability to fish at the
Klamath River. In May 2016, the Yurok tribe filed a federal lawsuit to stop
members of the Resighini Rancheria from gillnet fishing off of the Klamath River.
According to the Yurok tribe, in 1991, the Hoopa-Yurok Settlement Act divided
lands into the Yurok and the Hoopa reservations. The Resighini Rancheria was
offered the option of joining the Yurok tribe in order to have access to Yurok
lands and access to fishing. Instead, the tribal members opted for a $15,000 per
person payout. The Yurok argue that the Resighini gave up their fishing rights
when they made this agreement. The Resighini members argue that they retained
their fishing rights and that the Yurok are unjustly interfering with their land
and water use. The Yurok further argue that they are in the midst of a massive
conservation effort, and the Resighini are interfering in their attempts to save
the fish in the Klamath River.

Dam Controversy

The area surrounding the Resighini Rancheria has been impacted by government-built
dams. The Secretary of Interior began a process to consider removal of Klamath
Hydroelectric Power dams through the Klamath Settlement Agreement in 2010.
However, the tribe opposes the settlement because it argues that the Agreement
does not have any provisions for ecological restoration and delays dam removal
until 2020. The Agreement is set to expire soon because there is no authorizing
legislation and the dam does not wish to extend the deadline. The tribe believes
the US government must take steps to address water pollution and restore Native
fishes, particularly suckers and salmon that are threatened with extinction. The
Yurok tribe supports the Agreement. To further complicate matters, anti-Indian
groups,such as the Klamath Party Tea Party Patriots have intervened against the
Agreement because they oppose the removal of dams because they think it will hurt
the agricultural industry. "


Then there's the Hupa Reservation. The Hupa Reservation begins just below where
the Klamath reaches the Trinity River. So it looks like the plan is for them to
also have a Reservoir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hupa

"The Hupa Valley Indian Reservation has a resident population of 2,633 persons
according to the 2000 census." Total tribal population 3,139.

Map of Reservations:
http://www.ncidc.org/sites/default/files/education_graphics/NWCAtribalmap.jpg

The Hoopa are suing the Federal Government for Salmon depletion:
http://www.times-standard.com/article/NJ/20160729/NEWS/160729855

"Federal irrigation project and private dam operators on the Klamath River divert
and store water, leaving less for fish. The water that remains is warmer than
tolerable for salmon and polluted with nutrients and chemicals. Under those
conditions, fish are vulnerable to diseases they ordinarily could survive. "


These people in Colorado stock the reservoir with Salmon:
http://www.skyhinews.com/news/1m-salmon-stocked-in-lake-granby/

I'm not sure of the species, if it's possible with either species, if the
California Indians care about the exact species, or just want fish, or if this
would work.

[Voter]

Looks like total Indians involved could total as much as 6,000+1238+3139= 10,377,
but only 1,103+31or1,238+2,633= 3,767 or 4,974 living there between all three
tribes. Mostly it looks like because nearly 5,000 of the 6,000 Yurok don't live
on the Reservation.

So maybe solving California's water problems, and the Indian's fishing complaints
all at once could be possible and a great thing. Maybe it could even lower the
price of Salmon. Natural farmed fish or something? Otherwise, solving
California's water problems was originally my idea and advocation and impetus for
these posts.


Also, I think this one Indian started building this village near the proposed damn
location in 2007, and got it recognized as a historical site. Correct me if I'm
wrong in assuming nearly no one lives there. All I can say is, I'm not sure about
this whole notion of "Indian Reservations." This is our world too. Our sun, our
moon, our sky, and our stars. Basically everyone who wants to monopolize land
should pay the people rent directly. Why can't I use the "public lands" without
"permission." From an immigration perspective we're not going to let all the
immigrants come in here and use all our capital and property, for we have to make
our capital into more capital, for now. Likewise, who gave anyone permission to
get pregnant past three months, when others who are alive aren't 100% provided for
and happy. Having a baby's not a human right. You can't just hatch these
children and let them fly away. You can't just release 100 clones of yourself.
We should have a 1 child per woman advocation for the next 50 years probably. But
the Indians had no capital, they had tons and tons and tons of land. There's
still tons and tons and tons of land. We came here from Europe with capital. And
I don't see why we can't conceive of a public land notion that allows everybody
who wants to live like an Indian to live like an Indian. The selfish who believe
in private property can't see all the property they would already have, if they
wouldn't withhold it from others. These disputes are about fish, which means
food. This Reservoir is about food. It's obvious that California needs a
Reservoir if possible, for food. So if we have to pay to move this man's
historical site, it will obviously be worth the vast increase in farming
productivity our state can experience.

The land is not the fruits of anyone's labor. No one worked for it. It was here
before the human race was born. Sometimes someone traded the fruits of their
labor for an unrightful claim on the land. The land belongs to the people like
the sun, the moon, the sky and the stars.


http://www.bluecreekahpah.org/maps/ah-pah-dam.htm
"In the 1960s there was a plan to build a tall dam at Ah Pah on the Klamath River.
It would have covered the village site with 813 feet of water and would have
created a lake extending over 100 miles upriver, drowning much of the Yurok, Karuk
and Hupa territories."

Well, they'll still have territory, someone should calculate how much. And a
beautiful lake. It will drown his village. "Upriver" means down South in this case.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blue+Creek+Ah+Pah+Traditional+Yurok+Village/@41.4169958,-123.9414017,3195m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x0:0xcb79afdec79c83c0!2sBlue+Creek+Ah+Pah+Traditional+Yurok+Village!8m2!3d41.4169958!4d-123.9414017!3m4!1s0x0:0xcb79afdec79c83c0!8m2!3d41.4169958!4d-123.9414017

So I guess the above map should also be showing the exact location of the Ah Pah
Dam over to the Right there. This River is flowing Up Northward. This river is
flowing from the South up.

Reservoir Map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Ah_Pah_Dam_project%2C_Klamath_river%2C_1951.svg


Some more about the poor Indian man who built a historic village:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/yurok-indian-traditions-to-be-revived-in-new-village.html



So maybe someone should ask him how much. Maybe he could have his village on a
mountain peak overlooking the lake. There should be enough in the huge Reservoir
budget that we can hopefully make everybody happy happy happy somehow.

That is our goal. Fruitfulness and abundance and enrichment for all.

Someone could give this to Trump. Then he could say: "It's going to be HUGE."

It is. It is going to be huge.

15 Million acre feet of water compared to 4.5 Million in Lake Shasta and 2.5
Million in Lake Trinity. An addition of twice over what we have already. And it
can create energy. How much energy? I was going to figure that out, but that
would take another hour. How much energy does the State even use? Who knows?
Why don't State Legislators each have have 10 Analysts employed to work on stuff
like this, for $150,000-$200,000 per year (while making $300,000 themselves), so I
can just worry about my own industry and recreation while everything's run perfectly?

Of course, it would probably be possible to let more the water run through, and
create a smaller reservoir. But why would we not do it right.

And I don't care who takes credit for it. I just want water.

Okay, but what it comes to, is there is a project that need to be done, there is
something that needs to be produced and completed. But you can do the same thing
for 1/10th the cost if you do it correctly. Not failing to do what needs doing,
but finding cheaper products and more economical solutions that are truly just as
good. I'm not saying you'll definitely do it for 1/10th the cost, but you could,
and you might do it for 1/2 or 1/4 the cost if you do it RIGHT!

So it's poor to not do what you need. But it's poor to overpay or waste money
too. But you have to spend and allocate where spending and allocating is needed.

So you have to know the value of things I guess.

[Voter]

The Eel River could potentially be the next River to dam after the Klamath. The
following project was suggested in 1967 (50 years ago), but I also wonder if it's
possible there could be a place closer to the end of the river, allowing the River
to be existent, until it almost reaches the ocean. Damming the Eel River would
create a reservoir with 7.6 million acre feet of water, about the capacity of Lake
Shasta and Lake Trinity combined. Perhaps we would want this project to be slated
as a future project to keep in mind while we construct the Klamath Reservoir, in
case it would connect to any infrastructure put in with the Klamath Reservoir.

The Eel Reservoir:
"In 1967, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to build an enormous dam just
above the confluence of the Eel River and the Middle Fork Eel River at Dos Rios.
The Dos Rios Dam would have been 730 feet (220 m) tall, creating a reservoir that
covered 110,000 acres (450 km2) of land (including Round Valley, the Middle Fork
Eel River watershed's primary agricultural area and also the location of the town
of Covelo, plus the Round Valley Indian Reservation). If built, this dam would
have diverted most of the flow of the river into the Central Valley for irrigation
purposes. The project was defeated by outcry from local residents and the
intervention of then-California governor Ronald Reagan. Reagan remarked, "Enough
treaties had already been broken with the Indians"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Fork_Eel_River "The Dos Rios Dam"

I believe that suggested location at Dos Rios is here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dos+Rios,+CA/@39.7152392,-123.3546281,849m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8081e8ad9739a96b:0x5af6a08bd1e8da17!8m2!3d39.7169901!4d-123.3533599

Where the middle fork reaches the Eel. A map of the entire Eel:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Eelrivermap.png

This is the end of Eel River dumping fresh water into the Sea:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Eel+River/@40.6789729,-124.4660442,52923m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x54d411afed18126b:0x63d9915bf1af8462!8m2!3d40.575483!4d-124.2285489


Here is a good map of all the rest of California's rivers - be sure to click
"Zoom," Any of them may have potential for damming. Someone should look into
this - especially the ones dumping fresh water into the Ocean:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/California_rivers.jpg/1200px-California_rivers.jpg

Link to dams in California: http://www.ppic.org/publication/dams-in-california/

Also someone might look more into the problem with the Indians on the Eel river,
and how to economically make them happy:

The town of Covelo which the Reservoir may cover has only 1,255 people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covelo,_California
If necessary we might buy all these people off: $100,000 extra x 1,255 =
$125,500,000. Don't know.

And the Round Valley Indian Reservation has 300 people, 99 of whom live in Covelo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_Valley_Indian_Tribes_of_the_Round_Valley_Reservation

The closer the river is to the ocean, the more river we get until it reaches the
Reservoir - if it matters.


Here are 4 privately owned dams much higher up on the Klamath, that are currently
probably going to be closed, I think this is because they are 100 years old and
outdated, and no longer providing enough energy, I'm not sure. But this is
probably good, as far as the Ah Pah Dam proposal at the end of the Klamath/Trinity
river goes:

https://media1.fdncms.com/northcoast/imager/u/original/3549945/klamath_map.jpg


And finally, an article:

But first, I must say, as partially related in the article;
We have to always be building the State, and always increasing water capacity, and
it all comes down to water and babies/immigrants, and then farms and schools. As
well as other infrastructure. We could have a huge crane in major metropolitan
areas and other things like that. But we should waste no money on the
impoverishment of prohibition, or the punitiveness of draconian punishment for
people who are less than crazy or organized murderous, and we should have a free
country. We must teach our countrymen to be tolerant of others and not bigoted,
and while wrong is not right, two wrongs do not make a right either. So we need
to advocate and lead, and not condemn, except the criminally insane who are like
those who have Ebola and must be healed. For we are getting nothing out of the
purchase of punishment, except to combat the organized criminals and crazies who
do not sufficiently respect others, and would establish an even worse government
than we have today. However much of the problem comes from poverty and inequality
of wealth. We must save capital for labor, but to be fair, we must help poor
people to be industrious, and bring them up to improve their skills and
intelligence. For instance, K-12 costs $650 billion in the U.S., making it K-14,
through free community colleges, might only cost 16% more, and there really should
just be free education for everyone through the graduate level. Likewise
guaranteed jobs at the minimum wage, cash paid daily at the start, might alleviate
much of the crime and necessary law enforcement our state is bereaved to
experience. The minimum wage should keep going up for another 5 years past what's
been so far legislated, as the $1 per year increase plan should be extended to
another 5 years in the future, as inflation will have eaten away at it, by the
time it finally gets to what it should be, and to make it a sufficiently high
enough percentage of per capita GDP.


Finally, the article (not written by me):

Why California’s Drought Was Completely Preventable

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417685/why-californias-drought-was-completely-preventable-victor-davis-hanson

by VICTOR DAVIS HANSON April 30, 2015 12:00 AM @VDHANSON

The present four-year California drought is not novel — even if President Barack
Obama and California governor Jerry Brown have blamed it on man-made climate
change. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration,
California droughts are both age-old and common. Predictable California dry spells
— like those of 1929–34, 1976–77, and 1987–92 — are more likely result from poorly
understood but temporary changes in atmospheric pressures and ocean temperatures.
What is new is that the state has never had 40 million residents during a drought
— well over 10 million more than during the last dry spell in the early 1990s.
Much of the growth is due to massive and recent immigration. A record one in four
current Californians was not born in the United States, according to the
nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California. Whatever one’s view on
immigration, it is ironic to encourage millions of newcomers to settle in the
state without first making commensurately liberal investments for them in water
supplies and infrastructure. Sharp rises in population still would not have
mattered much had state authorities just followed their forbearers’ advice to
continually increase water storage. Environmentalists counter that existing dams
and reservoirs have already tapped out the state’s potential to transfer water
from the wet areas, where 75 percent of the snow and rain fall, to the dry
regions, where 75 percent of the population prefers to reside. But that analysis
is incomplete. After the initial phases of the federal Central Valley Project and
state California Water Project were largely finished — and flooding was no longer
considered a dire threat in Northern California — environmentalists in the last 40
years canceled most of the major second- and third-stage storage projects. To take
a few examples, they stopped the raising of Shasta Dam, the construction of the
Peripheral Canal, and gargantuan projects such as the Ah Pah and Dos Rios
reservoirs. Those were certainly massive, disruptive, and controversial projects
with plenty of downsides — and once considered unnecessary in an earlier, much
smaller California. But no one denies now that they would have added millions of
acre-feet of water for 40 million people. Lower foothill dams such as the proposed
Sites, Los Banos, and Temperance Flat dams in wet years would have banked millions
of acre-feet as insurance for dry years. All such reservoirs were also canceled.
Yet a single 1 million acre-foot reservoir can usually be built as cheaply as a
desalinization plant. It requires a fraction of desalinization’s daily energy use,
leaves a much smaller carbon footprint, and provides almost 20 times as much
water. California could have built perhaps 40–50 such subsidiary reservoirs for
the projected $68 billion cost of the proposed high-speed rail project.
California’s dams and reservoirs were originally intended to meet four objectives:
flood control, agricultural irrigation, recreation, and hydroelectric generation.
The inevitable results of sustaining a large population and vibrant economy were
dry summer rivers in the lowlands and far less water reaching the San Francisco
Bay and delta regions. Yet state planners once accepted those unfortunate
tradeoffs. They would never have envisioned in a state of 40 million using the
reservoirs in a drought to release water year-round for environmental objectives
such as aiding the delta smelt or reintroducing salmon in the San Joaquin River
watershed. No one knows the exact figures on how many million acre-feet of water
have been sent to the ocean since the beginning of the drought. Most agree that
several million acre-feet slated for households or farming went out to sea. There
is more irony in opposing the construction of man-made and unnatural reservoirs,
only to assume that such existing storage water should be tapped to ensure
constant, year-round river flows. Before the age of reservoir construction, when
rivers sometimes naturally dried up, such an environmental luxury may have
impossible during dry years. Agriculture is blamed for supposedly using 80 percent
of California’s storage water and providing less than 5 percent of the state’s GDP
in return. But farming actually uses only about 40 percent of the state’s
currently available water. Agriculture’s contribution to the state’s GDP cannot be
calibrated just by the sale value of its crops, but more accurately by thousands
of subsidiary and spin-off industries such as fuel, machinery, food markets and
restaurants that depend on the state’s safe, reliable and relatively inexpensive
food. The recent rise of Silicon Valley has brought in more billions of dollars in
revenue than century-old farming, but so far, no one has discovered how to eat a
Facebook page or drink a Google search. Stanford University, Hollywood, and
Silicon Valley do not sit on natural aquifers sufficient to support surrounding
populations. Only privileged water claims on transfers from Yosemite National
Park, the Central Sierra Nevada Mountains, Northern California, or the Colorado
River allow these near-desert areas along the coastal corridor to support some 20
million residents. Much of their imported water is used only once, not recycled,
and sent out to sea. A final irony is that the beneficiaries of these man-made
canals and dams neither allowed more water storage for others nor are willing to
divert their own privileged water transfers to facilitate their own dreams of fish
restoration. Nature may soon get back to normal — but will California? — Victor
Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford
University, and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals. You can reach
him by e-mailing aut...@victorhanson.com. © 2015 Tribune Media Services, Inc.
---------

I hope this all has helped anything. Another factoid I found out when looking
into the pipeline:

Piped water is worth like a penny per gallon while oil's worth like a dollar per
gallon, but that doesn't mean a water pipeline couldn't also possibly be made cost
effective. I don't know.

[Voter]

Also, as the Ah Pah Dam on the Klamath will probably flood most of the Yurok's
Indian Reservation, we will just have to give the Indians some more land and make
the reservation bigger.


Another notable Wikipedia entry I don't think I included before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California

And a good map showing California Water Storage:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Water_in_California_new.png

Article on Aquifers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer
https://www.voanews.com/a/california-drought-aquifers/3960286.html


Central Valley Pro-Water Group I found:
http://familiesprotectingthevalley.com/

"Families Protecting the Valley (FPV) is committed to providing information about
California's water resources, California water policy and its impact on the
farming community, jobs and the economy. FPV is a coalition of farmers,
agriculture providers and community leaders in the San Joaquin Valley who find it
vital to promote the necessary resources and government policies that will provide
long-term agriculture jobs, a safe and reliable food and water supply, and
economic security for farmers.

California's water policy is about more than farmers. It's about jobs, schools,
families and our environment. The San Joaquin Valley is the #1 agriculture
producing area in the country and has the unique ability to provide a safe and
reliable food supply, which is essential to the California economy and long term
security of the United States."

"Currently, the San Joaquin Valley is in dire shape concerning water. The West
Side is being dried up to the point where many farm families are being put out of
business forever.

Current attacks on the Valley’s water take two forms. One is the view that water
is nothing but a commodity and must be sold to the highest bidder. This is a
foolhardy concept which, if followed, will condemn the United States to depend
upon foreign sources with unreliable health protections for its food supply.

The second attack comes from the fringe environmentalists who consistently take
water from agriculture either by court order or legislative action. Much of the
time, the water does not improve the situation for which it was ostensibly taken.
Nonetheless, elected officials, including some from the Valley, continue to look
the other way and have been woefully impotent in protecting this Valley."

California Water News: http://familiesprotectingthevalley.com/topstory-m-99-99.html

Opinion Newsletters: http://familiesprotectingthevalley.com/news-m-10-10.html

Interesting Public Responses:
http://familiesprotectingthevalley.com/responses-m-57-57.html

[Regulation Of Commerce]

Raising the Dam at Lake Shasta 200 feet instead of the previously proposed 20 will
add 10 million acre feet of Water.

The Klamath Reservoir will add 15 million acre feet of water.

The Eel Reservoir will add 7.5 million acre feet of water.

That is 32.5 million acre feet of water between the three.

Lake Mead and Lake Powell are the two largest reservoirs in the United States.
They each hold up to 25 million acre feet of water, but they are presently at 40%
capacity, each with 10 million acre feet of water, only 20 million acre feet of
water total between the two.

There is a drought every decade or so in California. Entire farms could die out.

The Federal Government needs to put in these reservoirs, like the Hoover Dam.
Farms are industry. Industry needs 100% facilitation to work. Farmers should not
have to worry about water, it should be like sunlight. The Federal government
water project is for farmers. The State water project is for drinking water. The
State dam is newer and nearly failed recently. 100,000 were evacuated. There
will be excess capacity from the Federal project diverted to State water use.

The above capacity numbers are capacity only. Someone should research how fast
these reservoirs would fill up relative to each other and see if the water
capacity numbers are really the most pertinent or not.

Here is pertinent intelligence accumulated so far:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ca.water/y5tkrEW4Gkk

The California Central Valley produces one-third of all produce grown in the
United States.


Possible solutions that apparently aren't:
1. Oregon - the Columbia River separates the states of Washington and Oregon and
starts in British Columbia and empties tons of fresh water into the Ocean. All
the rivers in Oregon flow South to North. So unless you were going to float the
water down the coast in big tubes it's not liable to matter.
2. The Peripheral Canal was rejected by the voters. I think they thought it was
going to cause pollution.
3. Turning Salt Water into Fresh Water. Some Municipalities such as Carlsbad are
resorting to this, as is Australia. Is this really a cost effective solution?
Cost effectiveness may be all it comes to.