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A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About It Today.
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Horse Dewormer Will Save America
Sep 6, 2021, 7:48:25 PM9/6/21
to
NYTIMES.COM
A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About It
Today.
Campbell Robertson
At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
Sept. 6, 2021
BLAIR, W.Va. -- On the shoulder of a lonely stretch of highway miles
into the hills, a sign stands in the weeds. "Battle of Blair Mt.," it
says, informing the tumbledown cinder block building across the road
that here, 100 years ago, was the largest armed labor uprising in U.S.
history.
In late August 1921, thousands of rifle-bearing coal miners marched to
this thickly wooded ridge in southern West Virginia, a campaign that
was ignited by the daylight assassinations of union sympathizers but
had been building for years in the oppressive despair of the coal
fields. The miners' army was met at Blair Mountain by thousands of men
who volunteered to fight with the Logan County sheriff, who was in the
pay of the coal companies. Over 12 miles and five days, the sheriff's
men fought the miners, strafing the hillsides with machine-gun fire
and dropping homemade bombs from planes. There were at least 16
confirmed deaths in the battle, though no one knows exactly how many
were killed before the US Army marched in to put a stop to the
fighting.
The roadside marker and the spent shell casings found in the hillsides
are the only reminders at Blair Mountain that this took place.
The country has begun wrestling in recent years with its buried
trauma, memorializing vile and suppressed histories like the Tulsa
Race Massacre. The Battle of Blair Mountain, the culmination of a
series of violent conflicts known as the Mine Wars, would also seem to
be a candidate for such exhumation.
The army of miners that came to Blair Mountain was made up of Black
and white people, new immigrants and people with deep roots in
Appalachia. They did perilous work under conditions close to
indentured servitude: They were kept in line by armed guards and paid
only in company scrip, with their pay docked for the costs of housing,
medical care and the tools they used in the mines. These conditions
eventually erupted in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
But while there are commemorations this weekend in West Virginia,
including talks, rallies and re-enactments, a century of silence
enforced by power and fear has left the battle nearly forgotten
elsewhere.
"It is one of the most amazing confrontations between workers and
bosses ever in this country and no one knows about it," said Cecil
Roberts, the president of the United Mine Workers of America and a
great-nephew of Bill Blizzard, who led the miners' army in 1921. "It
seems to be almost impossible unless there's a concerted effort for
people not to know about it."
The Mine Wars era was bloody, with at least 100 deaths in shootouts
and violent crackdowns. For most of the 20th century, silence about it
served mutual interests. The participants kept quiet out of
self-protection and solidarity. Mr. Blizzard was charged with treason
and murder, though he was acquitted, and some of the most prominent
labor leaders faced permanent ostracism. Frank Keeney, who roused
thousands to fight as head of the U.M.W.A. local, spent the latter
part of his life as a parking lot attendant.
Mr. Keeney's great-grandson, Charles B. Keeney, a history professor at
Southern West Virginia Community and Technical College, had trouble
getting his own family to talk about the uprising. Instead, he learned
about it from stray remarks at family cookouts and from older
strangers, who told him star-struck tales after approaching him when
they learned of his family connection.
But it was primarily the coal industry and its supporters in state
government, Mr. Keeney and other historians said, who tried to smother
any public discussion of the history. State officials demanded that
any mention of Blair Mountain be stripped from federal oral histories.
A 1931 state law regulated the "study of social problems" and for
decades, the Mine Wars were left entirely out of school history
textbooks. Today, the battlefield is owned in large part by coal
operators, who until recently planned to strip mine Blair Mountain
itself.
This was narrowly averted in 2018 after Mr. Keeney and a group called
Friends of Blair Mountain succeeded in a nine-year campaign, resisted
at virtually every turn, to have the site placed on the National
Register of Historic Places. But even that does not prevent logging or
natural gas exploration, he said.
"In an ideal world, it should be a state park," said Mr. Keeney.
Instead, he climbs through metal gates blocking the roads into the
mountain to see what industrial activities may be going on outside of
public view.
In recent decades, the Mine Wars have steadily drawn more attention,
with a critically acclaimed movie; serious history books; an exhibit
in the state museum; and explicit allusions to it during the 2018
state teachers' strike.
Earlier this year, a great-grandson of one of the coal company
detectives even showed up in the little town of Matewan, once a
citadel of union resistance, and began offering tours.
"There are two sides to every story," said James Baldwin, who sits on
a bench in front of the Mexican restaurant, waiting to tell tourists
of the "brave" detectives who were killed in a shootout after they
evicted the families of striking miners from company-owned houses.
The history is being talked about more, but still only in "bits and
pieces," said Stan Bumgardner, the editor of Goldenseal, the state
history magazine. "It's missing in the public sphere." The events of
the Mine Wars are noted far less vigorously than those of the
tourist-pleasing Hatfield-McCoy feud, broadcast on signs all over
southern West Virginia.
The chief mission of remembering Mine Wars history on the ground has
remained with Mr. Keeney and his small cadre of activists, residents
and retired union miners. In 2015, they opened the West Virginia Mine
Wars Museum, privately funded and located in a union-owned building in
Matewan. They have also organized the main events for the centennial
of the Battle of Blair Mountain, including a re-enactment of the march
this weekend. None of these are state-sponsored, although to the
surprise of the organizers, the West Virginia governor, Jim Justice, a
billionaire owner of coal companies, issued a proclamation in recent
days in which he recognized the "significance" of the battle as a
"fight for fair treatment of working peoples."
Mr. Keeney said powerful interests were not the only opposition to his
cause. Past re-enactments of the march have been met with hostility
and even assault by people along the route, many of them coal
families, who were angered by the involvement of environmentalists.
Mr. Roberts, who has spent much of this summer rallying hundreds of
union coal miners on strike in Alabama, sees this as a natural
consequence of hard times. Decades of automation and changes in the
energy market have dried up the coal jobs in West Virginia, and years
of anti-union campaigns have frayed old loyalties. People desperate
for work tend to view any critic of the coal industry, including those
championing oppressed miners of 100 years ago, as a threat to their
livelihoods.
Mr. Roberts cited a quote from Jay Gould, the Gilded Age railroad
baron: "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other
half."
Not long ago, a local historian found a document in the attic of the
Logan County courthouse, listing hundreds of miners who were charged
for taking part in the Battle of Blair Mountain. It may be the only
list of its kind, said Mr. Keeney, who plans to dig into it after the
centennial has passed. And it may offer surprises for people
throughout the coal fields and scattered around the country who had
never learned that their great-grandfathers had gone to war in West
Virginia a hundred years ago.
--
_____,,;;;`; ;';;;,,_____
,~( ) , )~~\| |/~~( , ( )~;
' / / --`--, .--'-- \ \ `
/ \ | ' ` | / \
A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About It
Today.
Campbell Robertson
At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
Sept. 6, 2021
BLAIR, W.Va. -- On the shoulder of a lonely stretch of highway miles
into the hills, a sign stands in the weeds. "Battle of Blair Mt.," it
says, informing the tumbledown cinder block building across the road
that here, 100 years ago, was the largest armed labor uprising in U.S.
history.
In late August 1921, thousands of rifle-bearing coal miners marched to
this thickly wooded ridge in southern West Virginia, a campaign that
was ignited by the daylight assassinations of union sympathizers but
had been building for years in the oppressive despair of the coal
fields. The miners' army was met at Blair Mountain by thousands of men
who volunteered to fight with the Logan County sheriff, who was in the
pay of the coal companies. Over 12 miles and five days, the sheriff's
men fought the miners, strafing the hillsides with machine-gun fire
and dropping homemade bombs from planes. There were at least 16
confirmed deaths in the battle, though no one knows exactly how many
were killed before the US Army marched in to put a stop to the
fighting.
The roadside marker and the spent shell casings found in the hillsides
are the only reminders at Blair Mountain that this took place.
The country has begun wrestling in recent years with its buried
trauma, memorializing vile and suppressed histories like the Tulsa
Race Massacre. The Battle of Blair Mountain, the culmination of a
series of violent conflicts known as the Mine Wars, would also seem to
be a candidate for such exhumation.
The army of miners that came to Blair Mountain was made up of Black
and white people, new immigrants and people with deep roots in
Appalachia. They did perilous work under conditions close to
indentured servitude: They were kept in line by armed guards and paid
only in company scrip, with their pay docked for the costs of housing,
medical care and the tools they used in the mines. These conditions
eventually erupted in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
But while there are commemorations this weekend in West Virginia,
including talks, rallies and re-enactments, a century of silence
enforced by power and fear has left the battle nearly forgotten
elsewhere.
"It is one of the most amazing confrontations between workers and
bosses ever in this country and no one knows about it," said Cecil
Roberts, the president of the United Mine Workers of America and a
great-nephew of Bill Blizzard, who led the miners' army in 1921. "It
seems to be almost impossible unless there's a concerted effort for
people not to know about it."
The Mine Wars era was bloody, with at least 100 deaths in shootouts
and violent crackdowns. For most of the 20th century, silence about it
served mutual interests. The participants kept quiet out of
self-protection and solidarity. Mr. Blizzard was charged with treason
and murder, though he was acquitted, and some of the most prominent
labor leaders faced permanent ostracism. Frank Keeney, who roused
thousands to fight as head of the U.M.W.A. local, spent the latter
part of his life as a parking lot attendant.
Mr. Keeney's great-grandson, Charles B. Keeney, a history professor at
Southern West Virginia Community and Technical College, had trouble
getting his own family to talk about the uprising. Instead, he learned
about it from stray remarks at family cookouts and from older
strangers, who told him star-struck tales after approaching him when
they learned of his family connection.
But it was primarily the coal industry and its supporters in state
government, Mr. Keeney and other historians said, who tried to smother
any public discussion of the history. State officials demanded that
any mention of Blair Mountain be stripped from federal oral histories.
A 1931 state law regulated the "study of social problems" and for
decades, the Mine Wars were left entirely out of school history
textbooks. Today, the battlefield is owned in large part by coal
operators, who until recently planned to strip mine Blair Mountain
itself.
This was narrowly averted in 2018 after Mr. Keeney and a group called
Friends of Blair Mountain succeeded in a nine-year campaign, resisted
at virtually every turn, to have the site placed on the National
Register of Historic Places. But even that does not prevent logging or
natural gas exploration, he said.
"In an ideal world, it should be a state park," said Mr. Keeney.
Instead, he climbs through metal gates blocking the roads into the
mountain to see what industrial activities may be going on outside of
public view.
In recent decades, the Mine Wars have steadily drawn more attention,
with a critically acclaimed movie; serious history books; an exhibit
in the state museum; and explicit allusions to it during the 2018
state teachers' strike.
Earlier this year, a great-grandson of one of the coal company
detectives even showed up in the little town of Matewan, once a
citadel of union resistance, and began offering tours.
"There are two sides to every story," said James Baldwin, who sits on
a bench in front of the Mexican restaurant, waiting to tell tourists
of the "brave" detectives who were killed in a shootout after they
evicted the families of striking miners from company-owned houses.
The history is being talked about more, but still only in "bits and
pieces," said Stan Bumgardner, the editor of Goldenseal, the state
history magazine. "It's missing in the public sphere." The events of
the Mine Wars are noted far less vigorously than those of the
tourist-pleasing Hatfield-McCoy feud, broadcast on signs all over
southern West Virginia.
The chief mission of remembering Mine Wars history on the ground has
remained with Mr. Keeney and his small cadre of activists, residents
and retired union miners. In 2015, they opened the West Virginia Mine
Wars Museum, privately funded and located in a union-owned building in
Matewan. They have also organized the main events for the centennial
of the Battle of Blair Mountain, including a re-enactment of the march
this weekend. None of these are state-sponsored, although to the
surprise of the organizers, the West Virginia governor, Jim Justice, a
billionaire owner of coal companies, issued a proclamation in recent
days in which he recognized the "significance" of the battle as a
"fight for fair treatment of working peoples."
Mr. Keeney said powerful interests were not the only opposition to his
cause. Past re-enactments of the march have been met with hostility
and even assault by people along the route, many of them coal
families, who were angered by the involvement of environmentalists.
Mr. Roberts, who has spent much of this summer rallying hundreds of
union coal miners on strike in Alabama, sees this as a natural
consequence of hard times. Decades of automation and changes in the
energy market have dried up the coal jobs in West Virginia, and years
of anti-union campaigns have frayed old loyalties. People desperate
for work tend to view any critic of the coal industry, including those
championing oppressed miners of 100 years ago, as a threat to their
livelihoods.
Mr. Roberts cited a quote from Jay Gould, the Gilded Age railroad
baron: "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other
half."
Not long ago, a local historian found a document in the attic of the
Logan County courthouse, listing hundreds of miners who were charged
for taking part in the Battle of Blair Mountain. It may be the only
list of its kind, said Mr. Keeney, who plans to dig into it after the
centennial has passed. And it may offer surprises for people
throughout the coal fields and scattered around the country who had
never learned that their great-grandfathers had gone to war in West
Virginia a hundred years ago.
--
_____,,;;;`; ;';;;,,_____
,~( ) , )~~\| |/~~( , ( )~;
' / / --`--, .--'-- \ \ `
/ \ | ' ` | / \
BeamMeUpScotty
Sep 6, 2021, 8:35:45 PM9/6/21
to
On 9/6/21 8:31 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> story.
Democrats put all the Miners out of work and onto WELFARE. The fight
was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy system.
--
That's karma
Censorship is a systemic form of violence, using force to silence those
you hate.
Censorship is HATE personified... Hate groups use censorship to help
force those they hate to be gagged and silenced and canceled.
Censorship becomes a systemic hate crime and a form of SLAVERY when it's
illegally forced on American citizens. TWITTER'S censorship is enslaving
Blacks.
Censorship of this document in whole or part, is an admission of your
belonging to a VIOLENT HATE GROUP.
> On 9/6/2021 4:48 PM, Horse Dewormer Will Save America wrote:
>> NYTIMES.COM
>> A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About It
>> Today.
>> Campbell Robertson
>
> I just read this earlier today in the Gold Standard. It's an excellent
>> NYTIMES.COM
>> A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About It
>> Today.
>> Campbell Robertson
>
> story.
was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy system.
--
That's karma
Censorship is a systemic form of violence, using force to silence those
you hate.
Censorship is HATE personified... Hate groups use censorship to help
force those they hate to be gagged and silenced and canceled.
Censorship becomes a systemic hate crime and a form of SLAVERY when it's
illegally forced on American citizens. TWITTER'S censorship is enslaving
Blacks.
Censorship of this document in whole or part, is an admission of your
belonging to a VIOLENT HATE GROUP.
Siri Cruise
Sep 6, 2021, 9:00:09 PM9/6/21
to
In article <sh69c7$s3l$3...@dont-email.me>,
Horse Dewormer Will Save America <ho...@dewormer.invalid>
wrote:
> At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
> sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
Is that the one where mine owners did drive by shootings from
steam trains, or is that a different miner strike?
Thank goodness we can now all be classical liberals knowing the
wealthy will use their liberty to benevolently fulfill our every
wet dream.
https://youtu.be/UN8bJb8biZU?t=1207
SLAPP Suits: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
After winning a legal battle involving a coal executive and a
giant squirrel, John Oliver explains how SLAPP suits are designed
to stifle public dissent.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
Horse Dewormer Will Save America <ho...@dewormer.invalid>
wrote:
> At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
> sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
steam trains, or is that a different miner strike?
Thank goodness we can now all be classical liberals knowing the
wealthy will use their liberty to benevolently fulfill our every
wet dream.
https://youtu.be/UN8bJb8biZU?t=1207
SLAPP Suits: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
After winning a legal battle involving a coal executive and a
giant squirrel, John Oliver explains how SLAPP suits are designed
to stifle public dissent.
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed
Gronk
Sep 15, 2021, 1:17:00 AM9/15/21
to
> Democrats put all the Miners out of work and onto WELFARE. The fight
> was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy system.
You idiot, the above happened in *1921*
> was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy system.
Baxter
Sep 15, 2021, 11:37:29 AM9/15/21
to
Gronk <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:shrvka$ejm$1...@dont-email.me:
And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going the
way of buggy whips.
news:shrvka$ejm$1...@dont-email.me:
way of buggy whips.
Scout
Sep 16, 2021, 8:27:48 AM9/16/21
to
"Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:sht3vo$o1a$2...@gioia.aioe.org...
> Gronk <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> news:shrvka$ejm$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>>> On 9/6/21 8:31 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 9/6/2021 4:48 PM, Horse Dewormer Will Save America wrote:
>>>>> Â NYTIMES.COM
> news:shrvka$ejm$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>>> On 9/6/21 8:31 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 9/6/2021 4:48 PM, Horse Dewormer Will Save America wrote:
>>>>> A Century Ago, Miners Fought in a Bloody Uprising. Few Know About
>>>>> It Today.
>>>>> Campbell Robertson
>>>>
>>>> I just read this earlier today in the Gold Standard. It's an
>>>>> It Today.
>>>>> Campbell Robertson
>>>>
>>>> excellent story.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
>>>>> sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
>>>>>
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Sept. 6, 2021
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the Battle of Blair Mountain, thousands of miners clashed with
>>>>> sheriff's deputies in the largest insurrection since the Civil War.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BLAIR, W.Va. -- On the shoulder of a lonely stretch of highway
>>>>> miles into the hills, a sign stands in the weeds. "Battle of Blair
>>>>> Mt.," it says, informing the tumbledown cinder block building
>>>>> across the road that here, 100 years ago, was the largest armed
>>>>> labor uprising in U.S. history.
>>>>>
>>>>> In late August 1921, thousands of rifle-bearing coal miners marched
>>>>> to this thickly wooded ridge in southern West Virginia, a campaign
>>>>> that was ignited by the daylight assassinations of union
>>>>> sympathizers but had been building for years in the oppressive
>>>>> despair of the coal fields. The miners' army was met at Blair
>>>>> Mountain by thousands of men who volunteered to fight with the
>>>>> Logan County sheriff, who was in the pay of the coal companies.
>>>>> Over 12 miles and five days, the sheriff's men fought the miners,
>>>>> strafing the hillsides with machine-gun fire and dropping homemade
>>>>> bombs from planes. There were at least 16 confirmed deaths in the
>>>>> battle, though no one knows exactly how many were killed before the
>>>>> US Army marched in to put a stop to the fighting.
>>
>>>>
>>> Democrats put all the Miners out of work and onto WELFARE. The
>>> fight was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy
>>> system.
>>
>> You idiot, the above happened in *1921*
>>
> And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going the
> way of buggy whips.
Interesting, China doesn't seem to think so, give how much they are
>>>>> BLAIR, W.Va. -- On the shoulder of a lonely stretch of highway
>>>>> miles into the hills, a sign stands in the weeds. "Battle of Blair
>>>>> Mt.," it says, informing the tumbledown cinder block building
>>>>> across the road that here, 100 years ago, was the largest armed
>>>>> labor uprising in U.S. history.
>>>>>
>>>>> In late August 1921, thousands of rifle-bearing coal miners marched
>>>>> to this thickly wooded ridge in southern West Virginia, a campaign
>>>>> that was ignited by the daylight assassinations of union
>>>>> sympathizers but had been building for years in the oppressive
>>>>> despair of the coal fields. The miners' army was met at Blair
>>>>> Mountain by thousands of men who volunteered to fight with the
>>>>> Logan County sheriff, who was in the pay of the coal companies.
>>>>> Over 12 miles and five days, the sheriff's men fought the miners,
>>>>> strafing the hillsides with machine-gun fire and dropping homemade
>>>>> bombs from planes. There were at least 16 confirmed deaths in the
>>>>> battle, though no one knows exactly how many were killed before the
>>>>> US Army marched in to put a stop to the fighting.
>>
>>>>
>>> Democrats put all the Miners out of work and onto WELFARE. The
>>> fight was useless since Democrats just canceled coal from the energy
>>> system.
>>
>> You idiot, the above happened in *1921*
>>
> And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going the
> way of buggy whips.
investing and building new and wonderful coal power plants, they are even
helping developing countries do likewise.
Meanwhile, now in Germany, electrical prices have spiked following the wind
no blowing and only coal is allowing Germany to keep it's lights on.
Sounds to me like the day of coal isn't over, much as you would so
desperately wish it were so.
Solar and wind are too intermittent to rely on, Hydro has already been
developed beyond what the environmentalists will allow. You wont let us
build modern design nuclear plants and Fusion isn't ready yet.. so what's
left to fill the gap other than .... wait for it... fossil fuels..
Of course, if you truly wanted to contribute you would shut off your
computer and the electric to your house and show us how well you can deal
without energy.
Baxter
Sep 16, 2021, 10:33:53 AM9/16/21
to
"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:shvd82$pp8$1...@dont-email.me:
The economic case for coal has continued to weaken. The International
Energy Agency, which has long been accused of being overly negative about
renewables, this month crowned solar “the new king of electricity”,
saying it delivers cheaper power than new coal plants in most countries.
In the past year companies including Samsung and General Electric have
announced they’ll stop building coal plants and major funders like
Blackrock and the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank have pledged to
stop financing them.
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2020/10/28/will-build-worlds-last-coal-
plant/
==================
As to being without energy - look to Texas and those areas ravaged by
hurricanes, etc.
news:shvd82$pp8$1...@dont-email.me:
>> And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going
>> the way of buggy whips.
>
> Interesting, China doesn't seem to think so, give how much they are
> investing and building new and wonderful coal power plants, they are
> even helping developing countries do likewise.
>
> Meanwhile, now in Germany, electrical prices have spiked following the
> wind no blowing and only coal is allowing Germany to keep it's lights
> on.
>
> Sounds to me like the day of coal isn't over, much as you would so
> desperately wish it were so.
>
> Solar and wind are too intermittent to rely on, Hydro has already been
> developed beyond what the environmentalists will allow. You wont let
> us build modern design nuclear plants and Fusion isn't ready yet.. so
> what's left to fill the gap other than .... wait for it... fossil
> fuels..
>
> Of course, if you truly wanted to contribute you would shut off your
> computer and the electric to your house and show us how well you can
> deal without energy.
>
>
===================
>> the way of buggy whips.
>
> Interesting, China doesn't seem to think so, give how much they are
> investing and building new and wonderful coal power plants, they are
> even helping developing countries do likewise.
>
> Meanwhile, now in Germany, electrical prices have spiked following the
> wind no blowing and only coal is allowing Germany to keep it's lights
> on.
>
> Sounds to me like the day of coal isn't over, much as you would so
> desperately wish it were so.
>
> Solar and wind are too intermittent to rely on, Hydro has already been
> developed beyond what the environmentalists will allow. You wont let
> us build modern design nuclear plants and Fusion isn't ready yet.. so
> what's left to fill the gap other than .... wait for it... fossil
> fuels..
>
> Of course, if you truly wanted to contribute you would shut off your
> computer and the electric to your house and show us how well you can
> deal without energy.
>
>
The economic case for coal has continued to weaken. The International
Energy Agency, which has long been accused of being overly negative about
renewables, this month crowned solar “the new king of electricity”,
saying it delivers cheaper power than new coal plants in most countries.
In the past year companies including Samsung and General Electric have
announced they’ll stop building coal plants and major funders like
Blackrock and the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank have pledged to
stop financing them.
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2020/10/28/will-build-worlds-last-coal-
plant/
==================
As to being without energy - look to Texas and those areas ravaged by
hurricanes, etc.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Sep 16, 2021, 10:34:55 AM9/16/21
to
"weakening."
LOL
Baxter
Sep 16, 2021, 10:36:55 PM9/16/21
to
Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.entfernen.@gmail.com> wrote in
news:gfl6kgd43r4td7jed...@4ax.com:
According to Klaun, when the first automobile hit the streets, ALL the
buggy whip makers shut down and there hasn't been even one buggy whip
made since then.
news:gfl6kgd43r4td7jed...@4ax.com:
buggy whip makers shut down and there hasn't been even one buggy whip
made since then.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Sep 17, 2021, 7:49:43 AM9/17/21
to
On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:36:54 -0000 (UTC), Baxter
>According to Klaun, when the first automobile hit the streets, [..]
And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
LOL
And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
LOL
Scout
Sep 17, 2021, 8:08:38 AM9/17/21
to
news:shvkkf$16sh$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
based on his refusal to do what is necessary to lower his emissions.
If he won't make a change, then why should anyone else.
Oh, and FYI.... coal is hardly the extent of fossil fuels used to generate
electricity. There has been a long term shift to Natural Gas because it cuts
costs, and allows plants to rapidly regulate their consumption of fuel based
actual demand rather than having to maintain a plant online even when it's
power isn't needed.
Oh, but here's where Baxter will attempt to assert Natural Gas isn't a
fossil fuel or otherwise doesn't count.
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:shvd82$pp8$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>
>>> And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going
>>> the way of buggy whips.
>>
>> Interesting, China doesn't seem to think so, give how much they are
>> investing and building new and wonderful coal power plants, they are
>> even helping developing countries do likewise.
>>
>> Meanwhile, now in Germany, electrical prices have spiked following the
>> wind no blowing and only coal is allowing Germany to keep it's lights
>> on.
>>
>> Sounds to me like the day of coal isn't over, much as you would so
>> desperately wish it were so.
>>
>> Solar and wind are too intermittent to rely on, Hydro has already been
>> developed beyond what the environmentalists will allow. You wont let
>> us build modern design nuclear plants and Fusion isn't ready yet.. so
>> what's left to fill the gap other than .... wait for it... fossil
>> fuels..
>>
>> Of course, if you truly wanted to contribute you would shut off your
>> computer and the electric to your house and show us how well you can
>> deal without energy.
>>
>>
> ===================
> The economic case for coal has continued to weaken.
Thus Baxter shows he had no interest in climate change or saving the planet
> news:shvd82$pp8$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>
>>> And it's not Dems "canceling" coal - it's technology. Coal is going
>>> the way of buggy whips.
>>
>> Interesting, China doesn't seem to think so, give how much they are
>> investing and building new and wonderful coal power plants, they are
>> even helping developing countries do likewise.
>>
>> Meanwhile, now in Germany, electrical prices have spiked following the
>> wind no blowing and only coal is allowing Germany to keep it's lights
>> on.
>>
>> Sounds to me like the day of coal isn't over, much as you would so
>> desperately wish it were so.
>>
>> Solar and wind are too intermittent to rely on, Hydro has already been
>> developed beyond what the environmentalists will allow. You wont let
>> us build modern design nuclear plants and Fusion isn't ready yet.. so
>> what's left to fill the gap other than .... wait for it... fossil
>> fuels..
>>
>> Of course, if you truly wanted to contribute you would shut off your
>> computer and the electric to your house and show us how well you can
>> deal without energy.
>>
>>
> ===================
> The economic case for coal has continued to weaken.
based on his refusal to do what is necessary to lower his emissions.
If he won't make a change, then why should anyone else.
Oh, and FYI.... coal is hardly the extent of fossil fuels used to generate
electricity. There has been a long term shift to Natural Gas because it cuts
costs, and allows plants to rapidly regulate their consumption of fuel based
actual demand rather than having to maintain a plant online even when it's
power isn't needed.
Oh, but here's where Baxter will attempt to assert Natural Gas isn't a
fossil fuel or otherwise doesn't count.
Scout
Sep 17, 2021, 8:08:39 AM9/17/21
to
message news:gfl6kgd43r4td7jed...@4ax.com...
True, when you consider China's actions the use of coal remains pretty
constant since China's consumption of coal is increasing as fast as the rest
of the world is lowering theirs.
Oh, but that's right, Baxter will tell us that what happens in China has NO
impact on the planet.
constant since China's consumption of coal is increasing as fast as the rest
of the world is lowering theirs.
Oh, but that's right, Baxter will tell us that what happens in China has NO
impact on the planet.
Scout
Sep 17, 2021, 8:30:05 AM9/17/21
to
news:si0v06$14a4$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
Baxter tries a lame attempt to divert attention from China, because despite
that it uses more coal than the rest of the world, Baxter somehow things
that's irrelevant to his pet pony show of global disaster.
All I can say, is it can't be that much of a problem if we're going to
ignore the world's largest polluter and the biggest destroyer of the
environment.
that it uses more coal than the rest of the world, Baxter somehow things
that's irrelevant to his pet pony show of global disaster.
All I can say, is it can't be that much of a problem if we're going to
ignore the world's largest polluter and the biggest destroyer of the
environment.
Scout
Sep 17, 2021, 8:30:06 AM9/17/21
to
message news:k509kghj4vv14iiut...@4ax.com...
Of course, because clearly this climate disaster he keeps talking about
really isn't that bad. I mean take on China to save the planet? Come on,
man., that would require Baxter to have some backbone.... or at last an
actual disaster to worry about.
really isn't that bad. I mean take on China to save the planet? Come on,
man., that would require Baxter to have some backbone.... or at last an
actual disaster to worry about.
Baxter
Sep 17, 2021, 11:25:33 AM9/17/21
to
Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.entfernen.@gmail.com> wrote in
news:k509kghj4vv14iiut...@4ax.com:
understand but are hoping everyone else is to stupid to see it?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Sep 17, 2021, 2:43:58 PM9/17/21
to
On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:25:31 -0000 (UTC), Baxter
Nope, it's definitely you.
Scout
Sep 20, 2021, 9:14:49 AM9/20/21
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news:si2c1b$1lds$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
I understand that you're desperate not to talk about the biggest polluter on
the planet....
the planet....
Baxter
Sep 20, 2021, 10:09:52 AM9/20/21
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"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:sia1g7$hdt$1...@dont-email.me:
Scunt is flip-flopping so much even he can't tell which side he's on.
news:sia1g7$hdt$1...@dont-email.me:
Klaus Schadenfreude
Sep 20, 2021, 10:49:16 AM9/20/21
to
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:09:51 -0000 (UTC), Baxter
"POINT PROVEN!"
Lee Harrison 1957-2012, RIP
>news:sia1g7$hdt$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:si2c1b$1lds$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.entfernen.@gmail.com> wrote
>>> in news:k509kghj4vv14iiut...@4ax.com:
>
>>
>>
>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>> news:si2c1b$1lds$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> Klaus Schadenfreude <klaus.schadenfreude.entfernen.@gmail.com> wrote
>>> in news:k509kghj4vv14iiut...@4ax.com:
>>>>>According to Klaun, when the first automobile hit the streets, [..]
>>>>
>>>> And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>
>>> Nope, Is it you that's too stupid to understand? Or is it you do
>>> kind of understand but are hoping everyone else is to stupid to see
>>> it?
>>
>> I understand that you're desperate not to talk about the biggest
>> polluter on the planet....
>>
>Scunt is flip-flopping so much even he can't tell which side he's on.
And Baxter continues to run....
>>>>
>>>> And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>
>>> Nope, Is it you that's too stupid to understand? Or is it you do
>>> kind of understand but are hoping everyone else is to stupid to see
>>> it?
>>
>> I understand that you're desperate not to talk about the biggest
>> polluter on the planet....
>>
>Scunt is flip-flopping so much even he can't tell which side he's on.
"POINT PROVEN!"
Lee Harrison 1957-2012, RIP
Scout
Sep 20, 2021, 3:57:38 PM9/20/21
to
news:sia4nf$877$2...@gioia.aioe.org...
Nope, on this matter I'm consistent. You, on the other hand, are bouncing
all over the place to avoid my comments.
all over the place to avoid my comments.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Sep 20, 2021, 6:45:27 PM9/20/21
to
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:55:29 -0400, "Scout"
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>news:sia4nf$877$2...@gioia.aioe.org...
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:sia1g7$hdt$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:si2c1b$1lds$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>news:sia4nf$877$2...@gioia.aioe.org...
>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:sia1g7$hdt$1...@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Baxter" <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in message
>>> news:si2c1b$1lds$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>===================
>>>>>>>>The economic case for coal has continued to weaken.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yet China continues to build coal-fired plants. So much for
>>>>>>> "weakening."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>According to Klaun, when the first automobile hit the streets, [..]
>>>>>
>>>>> And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> Nope, Is it you that's too stupid to understand? Or is it you do
>>>> kind of understand but are hoping everyone else is to stupid to see
>>>> it?
>>>
>>> I understand that you're desperate not to talk about the biggest
>>> polluter on the planet....
>>>
>> Scunt is flip-flopping so much even he can't tell which side he's on.
>
>Nope, on this matter I'm consistent. You, on the other hand, are bouncing
>all over the place to avoid my comments.
He's really afraid to try to explain how the economic case for coal is
>>>>>>>>The economic case for coal has continued to weaken.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yet China continues to build coal-fired plants. So much for
>>>>>>> "weakening."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>According to Klaun, when the first automobile hit the streets, [..]
>>>>>
>>>>> And Baxter runs away with his skirt pulled up over his head.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> Nope, Is it you that's too stupid to understand? Or is it you do
>>>> kind of understand but are hoping everyone else is to stupid to see
>>>> it?
>>>
>>> I understand that you're desperate not to talk about the biggest
>>> polluter on the planet....
>>>
>> Scunt is flip-flopping so much even he can't tell which side he's on.
>
>Nope, on this matter I'm consistent. You, on the other hand, are bouncing
>all over the place to avoid my comments.
weakening in China.
[chuckle]
China Is Planning to Build 43 New Coal-Fired Power Plants.
https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/
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