Mountain Bikers Lobby to Get Bikes Allowed in Wilderness!
Mike Vandeman
too effective, huh?
Mike
Vol. 35 No. 4 | March 3, 2003
Essay
Printable Version
Let bikers in, and we'll stand behind wilderness
by Jim Hasenaur
I'm a mountain bicyclist. The pleasure of my life is pedaling through
wild places, experiencing the views, the changing colors and textures
of the plant life, the occasional animal sightings. On the trail, I'm
renewed, and my commitment to public-land preservation is
strengthened. I think that's the way most mountain bikers feel, and
historically, we've been eager to back conservation efforts.
We're troubled, though, that designated wilderness, the highest level
of protection, is encumbered with regulations that ban bicycling.
Across the country, wilderness advocates are advancing new proposals
while mountain bicyclists struggle to find a meaningful place at the
table. It's a wedge issue with a capital W.
The 1964 Wilderness Act is a remarkable tool. Once Congress acts,
wilderness areas are protected in perpetuity for their own sake and
for the recreational and spiritual sustenance they provide visitors.
Wilderness recreation offers adventure, discovery, solitude and awe -
exactly the kinds of exxperience most valued by bicyclists like me.
But wilderness advocates, like kids with a jackknife, are inclined to
use the tool at hand. They mark their accomplishments in acres
designated and their losses as anything less than wilderness as
proposed. Though bicyclists should be natural allies of the wilderness
movement, because of the bike ban we're understandably reluctant to
embrace proposals that would kick us off cherished trails.
It would certainly be easier for cyclists to oppose wilderness
outright, but that's not who we are. We value wild places. We've
endorsed preservation of all roadless areas as the foundation of real
resource protection.
We try to support wilderness where possible, and when proposals
include significant bicycle trails, we work to find ways to protect
the land and still preserve the riding. These tools include boundary
adjustments, cherry-stem trails and land designations that provide
wilderness-like protection from roads, motors and extraction, but
still allow bikes.
Unfortunately, many wilderness advocates see these measures as losses,
discounting alternatives as "wilderness-lite." They characterize
bicyclists as selfish and uncooperative. The cost of this infighting
has been acrimony, poisoned relationships and lost time, energy and
trust. Meanwhile, the Blue Ribbon Coalition and other anti-wilderness
groups court cyclists.
The 46 million U.S. mountain bicyclists are a giant constituency of
public-land enthusiasts. They're increasingly committed to wild land
protection, but they're understandably wary of wilderness
designations. That's why it's clear to me that there ought to be a way
to work for wilderness protection that doesn't ban bicycles. If the
regulation were changed, and bikes were allowed on some trails in some
wilderness, the entire nature of this debate would shift.
Most wilderness advocates are astonished to learn that the Wilderness
Act did not ban bicycles. It banned "mechanized transport," which was
defined in Forest Service regulation as "powered by a nonliving power
source." Bicycles were allowed and ridden in some wilderness until
1984, when a ban first introduced in 1977 was made final. This is
significant because it means the bike ban is regulatory, not
statutory. It was imposed 20 years after the Wilderness Act by folks
who mistook mountain bikes for motorcycles.
It's time to get past this. Bikes are muscle-powered, human-scale,
quiet and nonpolluting. The tradition and history of bicycle use on
the wild lands of the West goes back to the 1880s. Bicycling is
trail-based recreation. We may range as far as horses and runners, but
our impacts on the trails and on plants and animals have been shown to
be similar to those of hikers. Yes, bikes do provide a mechanical
advantage, but it's only a degree of difference from oarlocks,
suspension poles, skis and the high-tech alloys and composites
associated with other outdoor equipment.
I believe that if mountain bikers were allowed on some wilderness
trails, cyclists would overwhelmingly endorse new wilderness. Rest
assured: Trails would never swarm with bikes; most would still be
earmarked for hikers. Yet in the same way that backpackers cherish
wilderness regardless of whether they ever visit it, mountain bikers
would support more wilderness, both in principle and at the ballot
box.
It's time to make a niche for mountain biking in the push to preserve
wild places. Cyclists, with their commitment, passion and numbers,
could swell the ranks of a new, more inclusive movement. The only
difference between wilderness now and wilderness future would be the
presence of bicycles on some trails and much, much more wilderness.
Jim Hasenauer is a contributor to Writers on the Range, a service of
High Country News in Paonia, Colorado. He is a professor of
communication studies at California State University at Northridge and
a board member of the International Mountain Bicycling Association,
though his opinions are his own.
© copyright 2002 High Country News
High Country News* Box 1090 * Paonia, CO 81428 * 1-800-905-1155
To receive two free copies of High Country News, call 1-800-905-1155
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
Siskuwihane
Jeff Strickland
several valid points about you and he having common goals, but because you
are a crybaby you shut him out of the table where the common ground can be
leveraged to arrive at a conservation plan that works for all. There is
plenty of room in the wilderness for transient visitors of all types. What
wilderness can not sustain is any form of permanant encampment.
But, you're an idiot that refuses to look at facts in any sort of rational
manner.
Speaking of the fine art of lying, did I mention that when you point out a
lie it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
You should try embracing allies instead of alienating them. It's the whole
catch-more-bees-with-honey thing ...
"Mike Vandeman" <mjv...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:nehju35obnggiqau7...@4ax.com...
Mike Romain
folks that will do the needed trail maintenance and policing. There are
enough responsible folks in any group that will 'stand behind the
Wilderness' to weed out the idiots or to at least report the idiots and
make them feel very unwelcome.
It's the same with any off roading or 'wilderness' related group. Folks
like the snowmobile clubs get right pissed if 'others' wreck their
trails by misuse and they will turn in any such person in a quick
second. Like our RAMJ+W groups that looked after some trails, once we
are involved, we do tend to 'police' the trails to a certain extent and
are more likely to report someone who littered 'our' trails or went nuts
off trail, etc....
It's too bad Mikey can't get focused to the reality of the world in
2008, he is persistent enough to actually do some good instead of
chasing windmills.
Mike
Mike Vandeman
<cr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>I think you are on the wrong side of this one Vandeman. The author makes
>several valid points about you and he having common goals, but because you
>are a crybaby you shut him out of the table where the common ground can be
>leveraged to arrive at a conservation plan that works for all.
We already have that: Wilderness allows mountain bikers to hike,JUST
LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
There is
>plenty of room in the wilderness for transient visitors of all types. What
>wilderness can not sustain is any form of permanant encampment.
Or erosion-causing, wildlife-killing mountain biking.
>But, you're an idiot that refuses to look at facts in any sort of rational
>manner.
I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
thing ever written about it.
>Speaking of the fine art of lying, did I mention that when you point out a
>lie it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
>
>You should try embracing allies instead of alienating them. It's the whole
>catch-more-bees-with-honey thing ...
Mountain bikers are ALREADY welcome in Wilderness. They are just too
LAZY to hike, like other people.
Jeff Strickland
>
> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> thing ever written about it.
>
It is difficult to use rational and anything you have ever said in the same
sentence.
Mike Vandeman
wrote:
>Jeff, I also don't think he can grasp that he is isolating the very
>folks that will do the needed trail maintenance and policing.
BS. We don't need their crappy "trail maintenance", which is designed
only to provide thrills for mountain bikers. And they don't police
their own peers NOW. What makes you think they will suddenly start
doing it, if they get bike access to wilderness? You are very naive.
There are
>enough responsible folks in any group that will 'stand behind the
>Wilderness' to weed out the idiots or to at least report the idiots and
>make them feel very unwelcome.
BS. They SUPPORT those very idiots NOW.
>It's the same with any off roading or 'wilderness' related group. Folks
>like the snowmobile clubs get right pissed if 'others' wreck their
>trails by misuse
BS. Trail misuse is their middle name.
and they will turn in any such person in a quick
>second. Like our RAMJ+W groups that looked after some trails, once we
>are involved, we do tend to 'police' the trails to a certain extent and
>are more likely to report someone who littered 'our' trails or went nuts
>off trail, etc....
>
>It's too bad Mikey can't get focused to the reality of the world in
>2008, he is persistent enough to actually do some good instead of
>chasing windmills.
>
>Mike
Since you don't understand, let me spell it out for you: the mountain
bikers are saying "Let me destroy the Wilderness, so I can help you
protect it." NOW do you get it?
jo...@phred.org
But you forgot to slander him.
--
jo...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
jo...@phred.org
That's what the word "not" is for.
Siskuwihane
>
> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> thing ever written about it.
What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
Number?
magua...@gmail.com
> On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> > thing ever written about it.
wrote a book...BULLSHIT. You never wrote anything of your own
material. I can just see it now full of other's quotes.
Mike Vanderman'sofficial Bitch about mountain biking...by everyone
else except Mike Vanderman. I believe you'll find it down the
street...the local homeless shelter uses it for toilet paper.
You are such a liar in every sense and each post just reinforces it.
You said they can Hike? guarenteed if there was no mountain biking,
you would bitch about horses in the woods or on their own
fields...then go to hiking and the impact. Pretty soon Mikey would be
living in a bubble...but he's still fly to his meetings. You fraud.
magua...@gmail.com
and look at the images...pathetic and gross! what a way to protest.
Mike Vandeman
That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
Mike Vandeman
Prove it, liar.
> You fraud.
Siskuwihane
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
> >On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> >> thing ever written about it.
>
> >What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
> >Number?
>
> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
Cite please.
magua...@gmail.com
articles of Mikey. Your site proves all my points. All
quotes...nothing orignal, nothing written by you with any scientific
background. You merely use everyone elses material and research. The
entire site...quotes with nothing original. I don't count letters to
the editor...those are your only writings. They are merely babbles
similar to what you post here.
Let's see who is lying...hmmm....
your website on pacbell - the one you quote always. Yes or NO...is
this your site? if so. point proven in regards to continued articles
by everyone else except mikey...and qotes from everyone...
You admit to staying in college for a PhD to avoid the draft...you
said it yourself on the site here. remember...you downplayed veterans
and said...My country had better uses for me at home? haha...ok. glad
you got that degree in dietary arts.
You can't deny this you coward.
Working for a company that kills tons of natural areas a year in the
name of "technology advancement"...? what's up with that. You lobby
for nature and then counter it by working for a company that damages
it? You can't dispute this.
Fly to your seminars., conventions...chef's meetings or just dinner
with the fellow lunchladies...more pollution output in flights than a
mtber could dish out in a year...but that's ok...right.
promoted Sierra Club...the company that only lobbies and takes dollars
and really does very little for preservation anymore. They also had
out nice little gifts for joining...Mikey supports these people even
though they don't associate with him anymore...Oh. those nice little
gifts are made in China...one of the biggest environmental destructors
on the planet...but hey...it's ok, right mikey?
You are an asshole Mike. People could post every fact here. You would
still LIE about it. You are the fraud and liar.
We're still waiting for the book info...but hey, even if you do
provide it...it will only be other's information and quotes. I am more
of a naturalist than you ever will be or know to be.
magua...@gmail.com
Oh...so you're saying there isn't a book? Oh I forgot...
YOU LIE!!!!
Mike Vandeman
Do your own research.
Mike Vandeman
There's no point in communicating with a LIAR. Answer your own
questions.
Siskuwihane
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:01:08 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
> >> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> >> >> thing ever written about it.
>
> >> >What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
> >> >Number?
>
> >> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
>
> >Cite please.
>
> Do your own research.
Ok, I've done that and came to 2 conclusions.
Michael J. Vandeman is NOT an expert on the impacts of mountain
biking.
Michael J. Vandeman uses commercial airlines for travel to
international conferences when he could have use wind powered sailing
vessels, thus he put himSELF above the enviroment, making him a PHONY.
magua...@gmail.com
>
> There's no point in communicating with a LIAR. Answer your own
> questions.
> --
Actually...you're the liar.
I don't have to answer them....you have already in all your posts
before...you admit to everything I listed then deny it? All anyone has
to do is look at your prior posts...then again, that would bore them
with the same material from OTHERS and never yourself.
The other day you stated you wrote, with all intentions by the
sentence to deceive...
I wrote the book on the impacts of Mt biking...which by itself could
be taken as sarcasm BUT you added this sentence.
and that is the most rational thing ever written about it.
You are a deceitful liar. Oh, if you would like a link to an example
of actual published articles from me, just let me know. I actually
have a thing or two on the NET besides all the other articles I have
actually DONE. And they aren't lies or copies of other's information
or material...you fraud!
Mike
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
> <Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
>>> thing ever written about it.
>>
>>
>>What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
>>Number?
>
> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
LMFAO !! You're funny!
Mike
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:01:08 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
> <Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>>>
>>> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
>>> >> thing ever written about it.
>>>
>>> >What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
>>> >Number?
>>>
>>> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
>>
>>Cite please.
>
> Do your own research.
That means Vandeman has no proof, it is just his opinion as, usual.
Mike Vandeman
>
>>
>> There's no point in communicating with a LIAR. Answer your own
>> questions.
>> --
>
>Actually...you're the liar.
>I don't have to answer them....you have already in all your posts
>before...you admit to everything I listed then deny it? All anyone has
>to do is look at your prior posts...then again, that would bore them
>with the same material from OTHERS and never yourself.
That's what a "review of the literature" IS, dumdum.
>The other day you stated you wrote, with all intentions by the
>sentence to deceive...
>I wrote the book on the impacts of Mt biking...which by itself could
>be taken as sarcasm BUT you added this sentence.
>
>and that is the most rational thing ever written about it.
That's a fact.
>You are a deceitful liar.
All you ever do is make assertions. You never back them up with DATA,
as I do. That's how we know that you are LYING.
Oh, if you would like a link to an example
>of actual published articles from me, just let me know. I actually
>have a thing or two on the NET besides all the other articles I have
>actually DONE. And they aren't lies or copies of other's information
>or material...you fraud!
Without EVIDENCE, your ASSERTIONS are WORTHLESS, proving that you are
LYING. QED
Mike Vandeman
<Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 29, 2:40 am, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:01:08 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>>
>> >> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
>> >> >> thing ever written about it.
>>
>> >> >What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
>> >> >Number?
>>
>> >> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
>>
>> >Cite please.
>>
>> Do your own research.
>
>
>Ok, I've done that and came to 2 conclusions.
>
>Michael J. Vandeman is NOT an expert on the impacts of mountain
>biking.
Prove it, liar.
>Michael J. Vandeman uses commercial airlines for travel to
>international conferences
Prove it, liar.
when he could have use wind powered sailing
>vessels, thus he put himSELF above the enviroment, making him a PHONY.
Siskuwihane
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:45:18 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 29, 2:40 am, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:01:08 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
> >> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:03:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
> >> >> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Mar 26, 10:08 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> I wrote the book on mountain biking impacts. That's the most rational
> >> >> >> thing ever written about it.
>
> >> >> >What's the title of said book and the Library of Congress Control
> >> >> >Number?
>
> >> >> That's an expression. It means I am the expert on it.
>
> >> >Cite please.
>
> >> Do your own research.
>
> >Ok, I've done that and came to 2 conclusions.
>
> >Michael J. Vandeman is NOT an expert on the impacts of mountain
> >biking.
>
> Prove it, liar.
>
> >Michael J. Vandeman uses commercial airlines for travel to
> >international conferences
>
> Prove it, liar.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/msg/292593c77e981eab?dmode=source
From: Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net>
Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
Subject: Re: MTB Training program recommendations
Interestingly, there are some airports that one can walk to. I walked
to the Adelaide, Australia airport from where I was staying.San
Diego's airport is within walking distance of downtown. I'm sure there
are lots of others
Mike Vandeman
What's your point? I walked to an airport. What makes you think I was
flying? Idiot.
recycled
> reason ("pure bullshit"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting sanity and rationalism.)
You can't walk to Australia. While it is possible that you took a boat to
Australia and then walked to an airport it doesn't seem at all likely.
Siskuwihane
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net>
> >Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
> >Subject: Re: MTB Training program recommendations
>
> >Interestingly, there are some airports that one can walk to. I walked
> >to the Adelaide, Australia airport from where I was staying.San
> >Diego's airport is within walking distance of downtown. I'm sure there
> >are lots of others
>
> What's your point? I walked to an airport. What makes you think I was
> flying? Idiot.
Yes, you are looking like an idiot.
magua...@gmail.com
a liar. The proof is everywhere on google here. You state I don't put
examples...Holy shit are you even serious. There are constant
examples! They are slapping you in the face and you still
scream..LIAR! You're insane or at the least BiPolar. No lies by me
because I don't need to lie. You admit to flying to conferences. Now
you are saying you don't above? yet you call others liars? You lied
again above. it is continuous. you constantly go back on your word.
You aren't a very bright person are you? don't answer that
question...it was rhetorical.
Review of literature is not "writing a book" as you claim. dumdum.
evidence regarding an example of my articles? is that what you are
saying? because you state assertations and no examples...you're a
strange fellow mike. You know the type of guy that hangs around
outside children's playgrounds!
example of Vandy lies. In response to flying to conferences. He dodges
the question as usual BUT says.
<I have always made that suggestion, of course. As soon as the
<technology is available & affordable, and conference organizers want
<to do it, it will happen. Video would present privacy problems.
another major counter claim. You posted on google to reinstate the
draft. all you have to do is search that one...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/browse_thread/thread/5292d757db9340f1/8bfca6ff28b1e796?lnk=gst&q=mike+vandeman+draft+#8bfca6ff28b1e796
Then you state here...
<Nonsense. The government decided the country would be better off
with
<me finishing my degree.
So in one post you want to send people to die and another you state
you avoided the draft as I suggested.
Mike claims everyone LIES about his removal from Sierra Club...Ok.
Please read minutes from the meeting and other details.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/browse_thread/thread/1c422fb802f5a139/677998348f4476d2?lnk=gst&q=mike+vandeman+draft#677998348f4476d2
I could go on but it is useless...Vandy is just a liar
Mike Vandeman
wrote:
In other words, you are only expressing your worthless OPINION, not
FACT. Come back when you have something worth saying.
--
Mike Vandeman
>How is it that everyone on the net is a liar but you?
There you go, LYING again. I never said that. I only said that YOU are
a liar, which is by now OBVIOUS.
because you are
>a liar. The proof is everywhere on google here. You state I don't put
>examples...Holy shit are you even serious. There are constant
>examples! They are slapping you in the face and you still
>scream..LIAR! You're insane or at the least BiPolar. No lies by me
>because I don't need to lie. You admit to flying to conferences.
No, I didn't. Where's your EVIDENCE? As usuan, NOWHERE to be found.
Now
>you are saying you don't above? yet you call others liars? You lied
>again above. it is continuous. you constantly go back on your word.
>You aren't a very bright person are you? don't answer that
>question...it was rhetorical.
>
>Review of literature is not "writing a book" as you claim. dumdum.
I never said I wrote a book, although I did.
>evidence regarding an example of my articles? is that what you are
>saying? because you state assertations and no examples...you're a
>strange fellow mike. You know the type of guy that hangs around
>outside children's playgrounds!
More lies. Mountain bikers apparently don't know any other means of
communication.
>example of Vandy lies. In response to flying to conferences. He dodges
>the question as usual BUT says.
>
><I have always made that suggestion, of course. As soon as the
><technology is available & affordable, and conference organizers want
><to do it, it will happen. Video would present privacy problems.
>
>another major counter claim. You posted on google to reinstate the
>draft. all you have to do is search that one...
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/browse_thread/thread/5292d757db9340f1/8bfca6ff28b1e796?lnk=gst&q=mike+vandeman+draft+#8bfca6ff28b1e796
>Then you state here...
><Nonsense. The government decided the country would be better off
>with
><me finishing my degree.
>
>So in one post you want to send people to die and another you state
>you avoided the draft as I suggested.
BS. If you had read my suggestion, it was to draft people not for war,
but for peace! You didn't even read the FIRST SENTENCE!: "No, I'm not
recommending sending more of our young people to Iraq to be cannon
fodder."
>Mike claims everyone LIES about his removal from Sierra Club...Ok.
>Please read minutes from the meeting and other details.
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/browse_thread/thread/1c422fb802f5a139/677998348f4476d2?lnk=gst&q=mike+vandeman+draft#677998348f4476d2
So where is the lie???? As usual, you are all hot air and no facts.
>I could go on but it is useless...Vandy is just a liar
BS.
Siskuwihane
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:11:53 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >How is it that everyone on the net is a liar but you?
>
> There you go, LYING again. I never said that. I only said that YOU are
> a liar, which is by now OBVIOUS.
>
> because you are
>
> >a liar. The proof is everywhere on google here. You state I don't put
> >examples...Holy shit are you even serious. There are constant
> >examples! They are slapping you in the face and you still
> >scream..LIAR! You're insane or at the least BiPolar. No lies by me
> >because I don't need to lie. You admit to flying to conferences.
>
> No, I didn't. Where's your EVIDENCE? As usuan, NOWHERE to be found.
So tell us how you got to Australia?
My employment history in general and commercial aviation says that
airline reservation and departure control systems lists will make you
out to be a LIAR.
magua...@gmail.com
with, it was a expression...I have "review of literatures out
there...then you said again.... "I never said I wrote a book, even
though I did."
That makes perfect sense. You have a hard time with the truth Mike. We
will still sit and wait for the title and info on the book. I believe
the title is now, "trolls against humanity" because there is no book
out there Mike. None. You just have a really tough time
differentiating between fiction and non-fiction.
I am interested in something you stated previously in one of your
posts...You stated you recommended going to video conferencing for
these big environmental awareness sessions...but it provides privacy
issues?
What? I thought these were sessions to promote environmental awareness
and methods of promoting them? why would you ever want to keep it
silent? never mind, probably just another lie from you.
recycled
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:38:59 -0400, "recycled" <u-l...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike Vandeman" <mjv...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>news:jgduu31nbiqa8ord1...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>>> <Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >Michael J. Vandeman uses commercial airlines for travel to
>>>>> >international conferences
>>>>>
>>>>> Prove it, liar.
>>>>From: Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net>
>>>>Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
>>>>Subject: Re: MTB Training program recommendations
>>>>
>>>>Interestingly, there are some airports that one can walk to. I walked
>>>>to the Adelaide, Australia airport from where I was staying.
>>> What's your point? I walked to an airport. What makes you think I was
>>> flying? Idiot.
>>> --
>>> I am working on creating a neurotics habitat that is off-limits to
>>> reason ("pure bullshit"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>>> years fighting sanity and rationalism.)
>>
>>You can't walk to Australia. While it is possible that you took a boat to
>>Australia and then walked to an airport it doesn't seem at all likely.
>
> In other words, you are only expressing your worthless OPINION, not
> FACT. Come back when you have something worth saying.
FACT: You claimed to have travelled from the continental USA to Australia.
FACT: You pointedly did not deny flying to Australia when this was brought
up, but instead weaseled by saying 'What makes you think...'
FACT: The only two possible means of conveyance are by air and by sea.
FACT: You claimed that in Australia you walked to the airport.
CONCLUSION: You're full of shite.
> I am working on creating a neurotics habitat that is off-limits to
> reason ("pure bullshit"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting sanity and rationalism.)
>
> Please don't put a brain cell next to any part of my delusions that you
> are fond of!
>
> http://home.insane.net/mjvande
magua...@gmail.com
more amusing when we blatantly point out his turnabouts and watch him
try and reverse it. Similar to his response to my earlier post about
the sierra club...he said where's the lie? Hell the lie started years
ago with his post of him saying he was never asked to leave the Sierra
Club yet the minutes are online and show the vote to remove him and
oust him...but he still says it isn't so.
It is just all the more amusing. Still waiting for the title of the
phantom book...If it existed, you would post it.
TROLL.
Mike Vandeman
<Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 30, 5:32 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:11:53 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>>
>> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >How is it that everyone on the net is a liar but you?
>>
>> There you go, LYING again. I never said that. I only said that YOU are
>> a liar, which is by now OBVIOUS.
>>
>> because you are
>>
>> >a liar. The proof is everywhere on google here. You state I don't put
>> >examples...Holy shit are you even serious. There are constant
>> >examples! They are slapping you in the face and you still
>> >scream..LIAR! You're insane or at the least BiPolar. No lies by me
>> >because I don't need to lie. You admit to flying to conferences.
>>
>> No, I didn't. Where's your EVIDENCE? As usuan, NOWHERE to be found.
>
>So tell us how you got to Australia?
What for? That's your job. No one else is interested.
>My employment history in general and commercial aviation says that
>airline reservation and departure control systems lists will make you
>out to be a LIAR.
What's the lie? As usual, you have ZERO evidence. Nothing but hot air.
Mike Vandeman
<magua...@gmail.com> wrote:
No wonder you are afraid to use your real name, when you post lies
like this:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>You stated earlier in the thread you wrote a book...then countered it
>with, it was a expression...I have "review of literatures out
>there...then you said again.... "I never said I wrote a book, even
>though I did."
>
>That makes perfect sense. You have a hard time with the truth Mike. We
>will still sit and wait for the title and info on the book. I believe
>the title is now, "trolls against humanity" because there is no book
>out there Mike. None. You just have a really tough time
>differentiating between fiction and non-fiction.
I did write a book. You are the only one LYING. See above for your
other lies. I see you had nothing to say about it. Of course.
>I am interested in something you stated previously in one of your
>posts...You stated you recommended going to video conferencing for
>these big environmental awareness sessions...but it provides privacy
>issues?
>
>What? I thought these were sessions to promote environmental awareness
>and methods of promoting them? why would you ever want to keep it
>silent? never mind, probably just another lie from you.
Where's the lie? As usual, you have ZERO evidence and ZERO specifics
-- the clear sign of a LIAR.
Mike Vandeman
wrote:
FACT: Did you say something?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
Mike Vandeman
<magua...@gmail.com> wrote:
Still no response to your bald-faced lie:
No wonder you are afraid to use your real name, when you post lies
like this:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>There is never a question to Mike being full of Shite. It is all the
>more amusing when we blatantly point out his turnabouts and watch him
>try and reverse it. Similar to his response to my earlier post about
>the sierra club...he said where's the lie? Hell the lie started years
>ago with his post of him saying he was never asked to leave the Sierra
>Club
I was never asked to leave the Club. You are a LIAR.
yet the minutes are online and show the vote to remove him and
>oust him...but he still says it isn't so.
You are lying again.
>It is just all the more amusing. Still waiting for the title of the
>phantom book...If it existed, you would post it.
What for? First explain why you LIED about me (see above).
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
recycled
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:02:21 -0400, "recycled" <u-l...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>"Mike Vandeman" <mjv...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>news:uf00v394r8qnt3bci...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:38:59 -0400, "recycled" <u-l...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>You can't walk to Australia. While it is possible that you took a boat
>>>>to
>>>>Australia and then walked to an airport it doesn't seem at all likely.
>>>
>>> In other words, you are only expressing your worthless OPINION, not
>>> FACT. Come back when you have something worth saying.
>>
>>FACT: You claimed to have travelled from the continental USA to Australia.
>>
>>FACT: You pointedly did not deny flying to Australia when this was brought
>>up, but instead weaseled by saying 'What makes you think...'
>>
>>FACT: The only two possible means of conveyance are by air and by sea.
>>
>>FACT: You claimed that in Australia you walked to the airport.
>>
>>
>>CONCLUSION: You're full of shite.
>>
>>> I am working on creating a neurotics habitat that is off-limits to
>>> reason ("pure bullshit"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>>> years fighting sanity and rationalism.)
>>>
>>> Please don't put a brain cell next to any part of my delusions that you
>>> are fond of!
>>>
>>> http://home.insane.net/mjvande
>
> FACT: Did you say something?
OBSERVATION: You need to research the definition of the word FACT.
QUESTION: Exactly what means of conveyance did you use to travel from the
continental USA to Australia?
Siskuwihane
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:19:49 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 30, 5:32 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:11:53 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >How is it that everyone on the net is a liar but you?
>
> >> There you go, LYING again. I never said that. I only said that YOU are
> >> a liar, which is by now OBVIOUS.
>
> >> because you are
>
> >> >a liar. The proof is everywhere on google here. You state I don't put
> >> >examples...Holy shit are you even serious. There are constant
> >> >examples! They are slapping you in the face and you still
> >> >scream..LIAR! You're insane or at the least BiPolar. No lies by me
> >> >because I don't need to lie. You admit to flying to conferences.
>
> >> No, I didn't. Where's your EVIDENCE? As usuan, NOWHERE to be found.
>
> >So tell us how you got to Australia?
>
> What for? That's your job. No one else is interested.
That's is a lie, there are at least 3 people who are interested, seems
you are afraid to answer the question lest you be outed as a selfish
FRAUD!
Mike Vandeman
wrote:
FACT: I have no reason to communicate with someone unwilling to use
his/her real name.
OBSERVATION: You have yet to say anything meaningful.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
Mike Vandeman
BS. You aren't a person. People have names. You haven't provided
yours. That proves that you are dishonest from the beginning, and not
worth communicating with.
Siskuwihane
Wow Mike, you're really digging deep to come up with excuses, don't
want to be made out a fake enviromentalist I suppose.
My name? In your own words "Do your own research".
Mike
Your turn first. I don't believe who you say you are so you need to show
some ID. I want to see your drivers license, social security card and one
major credit card all with your name on them. If you can't provide these items
of identification it just proves you are a lying scumbag who can't be trusted.
recycled
>>> FACT: Did you say something?
>>
>> OBSERVATION: You need to research the definition of the word FACT.
>>
>> QUESTION: Exactly what means of conveyance did you use to travel from the
>>continental USA to Australia?
>
> FACT: I have no reason to communicate with someone unwilling to use
> his/her real name.
FACT: Yet you have done so already.
> OBSERVATION: You have yet to say anything meaningful.
OBSERVATION: Oh! The irony!!
> I am working on creating a neurotics habitat that is off-limits to
> reason ("pure bullshit"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting sanity and rationalism.)
>
> Please don't put a brain cell next to any part of my delusions that you
> are fond of!
>
magua...@gmail.com
my life in a bubble called vandeworld on the net where you can pretend
to do good. When not in work, I usually log on for a few moments to
rattle your cage then enjoy the outdoors. One day you will have to
actually go out and enjoy them. they really are fun!
Now...My name...Do some research you asshole. here's an article
written by me in one of the various specialities I have as a human
being.. not just lunch lady Bach of arts like yours you coward. I am
very real. have a name. not afraid to show it. Not afraid to step on
toes to people that are frauds and portray one image in the public eye
that they are the truist of the true in regards to environmentalism
yet talk a big talk and then do the opposite. That's you. Interesting
that you are still calling all other responders liars...cracks me up.
Enjoy the article. when we have time I will sit down and explain it
and how it relates to healthcare, how it is used in research of
medications and disease processes, how it applies to various other
areas that you will never understand or comprehend including doing
research in a lab using other techniques that prevent research on
animals, etc. And you can maybe help me work out a dinner or lunch for
the patient based on your specialty.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104048746/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
There are numerous other articles by me online for various things
including a website I run...which is filled with no quotes from
others. You are a complete fraud...who has yet to answer any
questions asked to you. Asked straight up about flying and you can't
answer it...i didn't say I was flying...just walking. what the
hell?!? The reason you find every excuse possible to avoid questions
is because you just don't have the guts to speak up and be honest.
Just fess up and say...I don't like MtBers and these are my opinions
about it...not this FACTS bullshit. You can't even answer a simple
question let alone provide legit material. If you were honest from day
one...it would be much easier! But you're just an ass.
Mike Vandeman
QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
which we knew already).
Mike Vandeman
QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
which we knew already).
Mike Vandeman
> Sorry I couldn't answer back. I was doing WORK as opposed to living
>my life in a bubble called vandeworld on the net where you can pretend
>to do good. When not in work, I usually log on for a few moments to
>rattle your cage then enjoy the outdoors. One day you will have to
>actually go out and enjoy them. they really are fun!
>
>Now...My name...Do some research you asshole.
QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
(which we knew already).
here's an article
>written by me in one of the various specialities I have as a human
>being.. not just lunch lady Bach of arts like yours you coward.
More LIES.
I am
>very real. have a name. not afraid to show it. Not afraid to step on
>toes to people that are frauds and portray one image in the public eye
>that they are the truist of the true in regards to environmentalism
>yet talk a big talk and then do the opposite. That's you. Interesting
>that you are still calling all other responders liars...cracks me up.
>Enjoy the article. when we have time I will sit down and explain it
>and how it relates to healthcare, how it is used in research of
>medications and disease processes, how it applies to various other
>areas that you will never understand or comprehend including doing
>research in a lab using other techniques that prevent research on
>animals, etc. And you can maybe help me work out a dinner or lunch for
>the patient based on your specialty.
>
>
>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104048746/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Broken link, OF COURSE. Just like you.
>There are numerous other articles by me online for various things
>including a website I run
Which is so important that even Google doesn't know about it! The only
things that come up are your inane comments in a few newsgroups, like
this one. What are you hiding from?
...which is filled with no quotes from
>others. You are a complete fraud...who has yet to answer any
>questions asked to you. Asked straight up about flying and you can't
>answer it...i didn't say I was flying...just walking. what the
>hell?!? The reason you find every excuse possible to avoid questions
>is because you just don't have the guts to speak up and be honest.
>Just fess up and say...I don't like MtBers and these are my opinions
>about it...not this FACTS bullshit. You can't even answer a simple
>question let alone provide legit material. If you were honest from day
>one...it would be much easier! But you're just an ass.
--
magua...@gmail.com
> QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
> (which we knew already).
Whatever...you are truly Blind.
I created it in a shortlink...You should be familiar with short
things!
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104048746/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
It should work now...even though that doesn't matter. at least I only
have a broken link...rather than a broken backbone!
I don't hide. The only thing I see when anyone googles your worthless
name is newsgroups....my name is filled with CYCLING items and
research...very few newgroups. Interesting for not know who I am...you
found info on me...hmmm. possibly another lie! unless of course you
googled just an email...which you would be retarded to do since most
people use emails for specific purposes...like rattle your chain on
newsgroups and other emails...I am sure you understand this concept.
You probably have one full all the time with hate mail...then the
emails you wish to receive go into a completely always empty inbox.
And you have YET to answer the straight up questions...because you are
a liar and fraud. Where's your proof of ID? Just who are you...the man
behind all the other's quotes. Show us some proof...maybe even your
frequent flyer card!
Tom Sherman
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
magua...@gmail.com
and silence rushes over the Mikey
Siskuwihane
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:06:13 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
Why did you take a commercial airline to Australia when you know they
spews tons of pollutants into the upper atmosphere? Why are you so
SELFISH?
Mike Vandeman
>>
>> QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
>> (which we knew already).
>
>Whatever...you are truly Blind.
>I created it in a shortlink...You should be familiar with short
>things!
>
>http://shortlink.co.uk/rtx
So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
your deliberate LIE about me:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
We're still waiting to hear your explanation, LIAR.
>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104048746/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
>
>It should work now...even though that doesn't matter. at least I only
>have a broken link...rather than a broken backbone!
>
>I don't hide. The only thing I see when anyone googles your worthless
>name is newsgroups....my name is filled with CYCLING items and
>research...very few newgroups. Interesting for not know who I am...you
>found info on me...hmmm. possibly another lie! unless of course you
>googled just an email...which you would be retarded to do since most
>people use emails for specific purposes...like rattle your chain on
>newsgroups and other emails...I am sure you understand this concept.
>You probably have one full all the time with hate mail...then the
>emails you wish to receive go into a completely always empty inbox.
>
>And you have YET to answer the straight up questions...because you are
>a liar and fraud. Where's your proof of ID? Just who are you...the man
>behind all the other's quotes. Show us some proof...maybe even your
>frequent flyer card!
Mike Vandeman
Since you don't like silence, I assume that you will stop
stonewalling, and explain why you deliberately LIED about me:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!
Siskuwihane
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:27:10 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
> >> (which we knew already).
>
> >Whatever...you are truly Blind.
> >I created it in a shortlink...You should be familiar with short
> >things!
>
> >http://shortlink.co.uk/rtx
>
> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> a laugh.
>
> http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> We're still waiting to hear your explanation, LIAR.
>
If I were you I would claim it were me in that picture because I am
100% sure that in reality, you look like a total douchebag.
Siskuwihane
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Exactly....
>
> >and silence rushes over the Mikey
>
> Since you don't like silence, I assume that you will stop
> stonewalling, and explain why you deliberately LIED about me:
>
> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> a laugh.
>
> http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
> --
Where's the lie? It's says "VandeRman", not "Vandeman", dummy.
magua...@gmail.com
> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
> your deliberate LIE about me:
Actually Heather is a very good research friend...but you continue to
attempt every step of avoidance. And Arshad is a brilliant man in his
field as well. The real name was never shielded..you are just
stupid...or in your words. DUMDUM.
The picture...not a lie. Just some satire. And I didn't even use your
actual name you tard. Yep, That wasn't you Mike...but I think everyone
knew it wasn't...Whoa...watch out. there was honesty in that sentence.
So that was the BIG lie about you...haha. Mike=0...everyone else=100.
and you continue to avoid.
Actually Mike. Not a single sentence you say holds any validity
anymore. You continue to avoid at every possible step in answering
anyone's questions.
Still waiting for this great book you wrote...or didn't you. I can't
tell anymore.
"I never said I wrote a book! even though I did?"
So where's the phantom book? probably mixed up with the recipe books
on your kitchen shelf.
Mike Vandeman
Either way, it's a LIE, dumdum. Where did you learn to think?
Mike Vandeman
Says the guy who refuses to give his real name, making you a ZERO.
Mike Vandeman
>>
>> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
>> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
>> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
>Actually Heather is a very good research friend...but you continue to
>attempt every step of avoidance. And Arshad is a brilliant man in his
>field as well. The real name was never shielded..you are just
>stupid...or in your words. DUMDUM.
>
>The picture...not a lie. Just some satire. And I didn't even use your
>actual name you tard.
So you admit that it was a LIE. That's all we need to know about you.
Mike Vandeman
>>
>> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
>> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
>> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
>Actually Heather is a very good research friend...but you continue to
>attempt every step of avoidance. And Arshad is a brilliant man in his
>field as well. The real name was never shielded..you are just
>stupid...or in your words. DUMDUM.
So your name is "Walter Skrzypek"? No wonder you try to hide it! Now
we are even LESS inclined to listen to you! But a LIAR by any other
name is still a LIAR.
Just so you don't forget that you are a LIAR, here is a reminder:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he
is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
Siskuwihane
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:04:28 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 1, 12:33 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Exactly....
>
> >> >and silence rushes over the Mikey
>
> >> Since you don't like silence, I assume that you will stop
> >> stonewalling, and explain why you deliberately LIED about me:
>
> >> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> >> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> >> a laugh.
>
> >>http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
> >> --
>
> >Where's the lie? It's says "VandeRman", not "Vandeman", dummy.
>
> Either way, it's a LIE, dumdum. Where did you learn to think?
Do you have any proof the person in the picture isn't named Vanderman?
I thought not, dummy.
Siskuwihane
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 1, 12:31 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:27:10 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> QED. Deliberate deception. Everything you say is therefore WORTHLESS
> >> >> (which we knew already).
>
> >> >Whatever...you are truly Blind.
> >> >I created it in a shortlink...You should be familiar with short
> >> >things!
>
> >> >http://shortlink.co.uk/rtx
>
> >> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
> >> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
> >> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
> >> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> >> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> >> a laugh.
>
> >>http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> >> We're still waiting to hear your explanation, LIAR.
>
> >If I were you I would claim it were me in that picture because I am
> >100% sure that in reality, you look like a total douchebag.
>
> Says the guy who refuses to give his real name, making you a ZERO.
Why did you fly to Australia instead of swimming? Why won't you answer
the question?
You're SELFISH and do not really care about the enviroment, you
attention whore.
Siskuwihane
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:58:46 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
> >> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
> >> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
> >Actually Heather is a very good research friend...but you continue to
> >attempt every step of avoidance. And Arshad is a brilliant man in his
> >field as well. The real name was never shielded..you are just
> >stupid...or in your words. DUMDUM.
>
> >The picture...not a lie. Just some satire. And I didn't even use your
> >actual name you tard.
>
> So you admit that it was a LIE. That's all we need to know about you.
Why do you fly on commercial airlines?
Siskuwihane
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:58:46 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> So your name is Heather Davis? You continue to refuse to use your real
> >> name -- a sure sign of a LIAR. And you continue to refuse to explain
> >> your deliberate LIE about me:
>
> >Actually Heather is a very good research friend...but you continue to
> >attempt every step of avoidance. And Arshad is a brilliant man in his
> >field as well. The real name was never shielded..you are just
> >stupid...or in your words. DUMDUM.
>
> So your name is "Walter Skrzypek"? No wonder you try to hide it! Now
> we are even LESS inclined to listen to you! But a LIAR by any other
> name is still a LIAR.
>
> Just so you don't forget that you are a LIAR, here is a reminder:
Why do you take commercial airlines to conferences instead of walking?
Why are you so selfish when it comes to transportation and the
pollution it causes? Why do you only think about yourself? Why don't
you care about greenhouse gases and toxins being spewed by jet
engines? Real enviromentalists need to know how greedy and selfish you
really are.
Jym Dyer
think, intentionally so), but in the hope that somebody mindful
is actually reading it, I'll offer the following. My strategy
for avoiding adding to air travel pollution is twofold.
=1= First, if at all possible, I'll take a train. Since the
U.S. has a passenger rail system that would be an embarrassment
for supposedly-lesser nations, this requires having the time
available, which means having a flexible place of employment
or (as in my case) being a consultant.
=2= Second, if a train won't work (e.g. when going overseas),
I'll take a charter flight. This means I get a ticket that
I can only use when a flight is undersold and a spare seat is
available. I never know what day it'll be, but so far it's
been within a 3-day window. Again this requires flexibility,
timewise.
=v= Another approach people use is buying carbon credits to
"offset" their flights. I think the carbon credit businesses
underestimate the financial impact of the carbon use they're
supposedly offsetting, so I choose to pay double or triple.
=v= The best approach of all is what a friend of mine did when
he moved from San Francisco to England without using any cars
or planes:
http://onthelevelblog.wordpress.com/
<_Jym_>
---------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==--------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
magua...@gmail.com
> So your name is "Walter Skrzypek"? No wonder you try to hide it! Now
> we are even LESS inclined to listen to you! But a LIAR by any other
> name is still a LIAR.
Wow...aren't you the little Sherlock Holmes here? Actually...probably
over a year ago my name was listed with a post so it was never a
secret as you pretended nor was it difficult for anyone with a brain
to query on and find. You're just an idiot. And to pretend you know
the name or me as you suggest above...merely proves your lies and
stupidity. And please don't use the term "WE" for it is only you that
pretends to NOT listen to me. Other's seem to side with our idea that
you continue to avoid ALL questions and give no straight
answers...because you are a deceitful person. You provide repetative
non-factual editorials against MtBers...but provide no data. and you
don't do any of the research yourself.
So once again...where's the famed book Mr Chef Boy-r-Dee....where's
the answer to the questions on walking to the airport...lol. We should
give a simple Yes/No questionaire for you. You know...
Did you get booted and voted out of the Sierra Club? yes or no.
Did you fly to Australia?
Don't answer...you have no validity with your answers. You're a
pawn...a sheep.
and still all you have to go on for accusing me of a lie is a OBVIOUS
pun at you in a picture when the name wasn't even listed as yours. And
it was obvious to a child it was sarcasm...You're a sad little man
aren't you?
DI
>
> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> a laugh.
>
> http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> We're still waiting to hear your explanation, LIAR.
>
If I were you I would claim it were me in that picture because I am
100% sure that in reality, you look like a total douchebag.
It's not Mike, this guy has a dick, Mike doesn't.
Mike Vandeman
>>
>> So your name is "Walter Skrzypek"? No wonder you try to hide it! Now
>> we are even LESS inclined to listen to you! But a LIAR by any other
>> name is still a LIAR.
>
>Wow...aren't you the little Sherlock Holmes here? Actually...probably
>over a year ago my name was listed with a post so it was never a
>secret as you pretended nor was it difficult for anyone with a brain
>to query on and find.
STILL unwilling to admit what your name is? Only someone THAT
dishonest could deliberately LIE, as you did here:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
That's all we need to know about you. Your reputation, what little you
may have had, is OVER.
Mike Vandeman
The burden of proof is on the LIAR and SLANDERER..
Mike Vandeman
Thanks for talking about me all the time. It's a good use of your
time.
Mike
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:50:41 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
> <Siskuw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 1, 3:16 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:04:28 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >On Apr 1, 12:33 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>>>
>>> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >Exactly....
>>>
>>> >> >and silence rushes over the Mikey
>>>
>>> >> Since you don't like silence, I assume that you will stop
>>> >> stonewalling, and explain why you deliberately LIED about me:
>>>
>>> >> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
>>> >> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
>>> >> a laugh.
>>>
>>> >>http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>>> >> --
>>>
>>> >Where's the lie? It's says "VandeRman", not "Vandeman", dummy.
>>>
>>> Either way, it's a LIE, dumdum. Where did you learn to think?
>>
>>
>>Do you have any proof the person in the picture isn't named Vanderman?
>>I thought not, dummy.
>
> The burden of proof is on the LIAR and SLANDERER..
Correct, that's why he is asking you for proof, LIAR.
magua...@gmail.com
now? about who I am? You are a strange boy. Like I said before Tard. I
never tried to keep my name private because I didn't have a reason to
keep it private. Like I said before, I will step on toes, go balls out
with a good argument, etc...without hiding and I will do it honestly.
I'm gonna toss in some criticism, some insults on occasion which is so
easy with you, I will call it as I see it and drop some pictures to
make fun of someone like I did here...My name appears in the article
and it was already on posts before ,that I signed so it didn't take a
genius yet you still are acting like I am hiding? Interesting...the
one thing you claim I LIED about is the picture of the guy besides the
bike running? If that is my big lie. You remain pathetic. Everything
I have said all along about you rings true. You have no validity. You
cannot counter any of the questions asked to you because you avoid
them.
So once again. Did you fly?
Did Sierra Club vote you out?
Did you avoid the draft by hiding in college and then blatantly make
fun of those who served while you said "they had better use for me at
home...and don't even say you didn't say this because I already linked
it before you fuckin' coward.
Once again...I have many more articles out there online...and they are
there for everyone to see. YET, we still await the phantom book by
Mike.
Remember...you said "I NEVER SAID I WROTE A BOOK, even though I did"
Quick Mike...your move to avoid again.
Mike Vandeman
"Don't feed the troll!" hypocrite.
The only thing you need to do is explain why you deliberately LIED:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
--
magua...@gmail.com
> >So once again. Did you fly?
> >Did Sierra Club vote you out?
> >Did you avoid the draft by hiding in college and then blatantly make
> >fun of those who served while you said "they had better use for me at
> >home...and don't even say you didn't say this because I already linked
> >it before you fuckin' coward.
>
> >Once again...I have many more articles out there online...and they are
> >there for everyone to see. YET, we still await the phantom book by
> >Mike.
> >Remember...you said "I NEVER SAID I WROTE A BOOK, even though I did"
The questions remain unanswered above as expected...I put a pun in a
picture up to make fun of you that I found...it was tagged with the
name Mike Vanderman and I laughed like hell. Because your a nuthugger.
What's your multiple reasons for avoidance? You have NO validity. All
the questions asked to you...all the insults I have tossed...all the
tags I have assigned to you in all my posts and you have only a
picture to declare as a lie. Because everything else in true.
Here's another question. How come you work for a deliberate destroyer
of many areas of nature? A true environmentalist like you striving to
create a human free habitat would surely find a better job at a more
appreciative workplace? Just wondering why you work for a place that
KILLS nature in the name of technology?
Siskuwihane
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:19:31 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
Who's Mike Vanderman?
Mike Vandeman
>I put a pun in a
>picture up to make fun of you that I found...it was tagged with the
>name Mike Vanderman and I laughed like hell.
And then you chose to deliberately LIE:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
Still waiting for your explanation of why you LIE.... You have no
reputation left.
Siskuwihane
> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I put a pun in a
> >picture up to make fun of you that I found...it was tagged with the
> >name Mike Vanderman and I laughed like hell.
>
> And then you chose to deliberately LIE:
>
> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> a laugh.
>
> http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> Still waiting for your explanation of why you LIE.... You have no
> reputation left.
Who is Mike VandeRman and why are you so concerned?
magua...@gmail.com
>
> Who is Mike VandeRman and why are you so concerned?- Hide quoted text -
>
>
Must be the name of Mike Vandeman's gerbil or something?
My reputation is more than intact .you however have yet to explain why
you pee sitting down or any of the other millions of questions we have
asked. Just a few...
Where's that phantom book? I NEVER SAID I WROTE ONE, even though I
did...direct quote.
Did you fly? No but I walked to the airport...LOL...one of the best
quotes.
Did you not insult american military vets with your pun regarding how
you were too good to go to nam? Yes, answer in the archives...
Did you get booted from SIerra Club? Yes, the full details in the
archive...your answer was NO...also in the archives.
Mike Vandeman
LIARS like you and no-name need to be exposed. You can't even tell the
truth about your own name!
Mike Vandeman
>
>>
>> Who is Mike VandeRman and why are you so concerned?- Hide quoted text -
Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
Siskuwihane
> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:18:29 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 2, 8:38 pm, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >I put a pun in a
> >> >picture up to make fun of you that I found...it was tagged with the
> >> >name Mike Vanderman and I laughed like hell.
>
> >> And then you chose to deliberately LIE:
>
> >> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> >> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> >> a laugh.
>
> >>http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> >> Still waiting for your explanation of why you LIE.... You have no
> >> reputation left.
>
> >Who is Mike VandeRman and why are you so concerned?
>
> LIARS like you and no-name need to be exposed. You can't even tell the
> truth about your own name!
> --
Do your own research, don't be so LAZY, you know, like when you fly
overseas instead of swim.
magua...@gmail.com
hide behind the picture comment without facing up to any questions.
Where's that book? LMAO
Mike Vandeman
>LOL...you're so pyschotic dude! My name is all over now and you still
>hide behind the picture comment without facing up to any questions.
Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
magua...@gmail.com
>> You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
> --
lol, live it down? hell, I am living it up while we continue looking
DOWN on you.
The explanation is everyone makes fun of you. all the time...you dumb
bastard. For good reason you LIAR.
Whats you excuse for all you lies?! all the time?
Mike Vandeman
>
>>> You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
>> --
>
>lol, live it down? hell, I am living it up while we continue looking
>DOWN on you.
>The explanation is everyone makes fun of you.
And LIE in doing so -- something honest people like me don't need to
do.
all the time...you dumb
>bastard. For good reason you LIAR.
>
>Whats you excuse for all you lies?! all the time?
I never lie, because the facts are on my side! That doesn't explain
why YOU choose to deliberately lie:
Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
--
Siskuwihane
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:35:13 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >LOL...you're so pyschotic dude! My name is all over now and you still
> >hide behind the picture comment without facing up to any questions.
>
> Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
>
> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> a laugh.
>
> http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
And you'll never live down using commercial airlines for your selfish
transportation needs to international conferences.
Mike Vandeman
Obviously, the only people who care are those not honest enough to
even use their real name.
Siskuwihane
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:20:24 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
>
>
>
>
>
> <Siskuwiha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 5, 4:51 am, Mike Vandeman <mjva...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:35:13 -0700 (PDT), "maguahi...@gmail.com"
>
> >> <maguahi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >LOL...you're so pyschotic dude! My name is all over now and you still
> >> >hide behind the picture comment without facing up to any questions.
>
> >> Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
>
> >> "I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
> >> trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
> >> a laugh.
>
> >>http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
>
> >> You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
>
> >And you'll never live down using commercial airlines for your selfish
> >transportation needs to international conferences.
>
> Obviously, the only people who care are those not honest enough to
> even use their real name.
Stop using air transportation Mike, it makes you a hypocrite.
magua...@gmail.com
you stated...
I never lie, because the facts are on my side! That doesn't explain
why YOU choose to deliberately lie:
Ok...so the picture was a lie? or was it making fun? Guess what...if
that is the worst you can come up with...God help you because you are
hopeless. everyone knew it wasn't you so how is that a lie? Besides
the fact I didn't even use your name you tard. Now onto your continous
lies...another one above with you stating you don't lie...haha
Ok...so here we touch on very very few of the tons of misinformation
out there...
I never said I wrote a book, even though I did.
-so which is it...you liar.
I never said I flew from the airport. I walked to the airport
-first...that proved to be a lie in walking to the airport. Next,
what did you do there, go to the stores...a little shopping, a snack
or two? No...you went because you flew down to a conference but
couldn't even admit to that part...because you are a liar
I never got kicked out of Sierra Club.
-ok...i see a pattern of half truths and avoidance...this way you
avoid being a direct phony. For instance...I walked to the
airport...Or "KICKED" out of the sierra club...after all...you were
"VOTED OUT" but essentially you got ousted because they couldn't stand
you. similar to all the forums here. no one can stand you.
Now. over and over. You lie and state I never gave my name...and
continue to say this yet it is now everywhere. This makes you a
LIAR!!!!
answer this question. My, mike v's entire website is comprised of
everyone else's quotes and link to everyone else's artlces...and NO
INFO BY ME? what's the answer, yes or no? It is YES...and literary
reviews don't count...otherwise siskel and ebert could say they made
movies...which would be a lie...but then again...you like to lie.
so why do you talk with forked tongue?
Siskuwihane
wrote:
Why did Mike devote an entire thread to you on the mountain-bike group
when you are not a mountain biker?
Is he's delusional?
Mike Vandeman
>
>you stated...
>I never lie, because the facts are on my side! That doesn't explain
>why YOU choose to deliberately lie:
>
>
>Ok...so the picture was a lie? or was it making fun?
Making fun through LYING, unlike honest people.
Guess what...if
>that is the worst you can come up with...God help you because you are
>hopeless. everyone knew it wasn't you so how is that a lie? Besides
>the fact I didn't even use your name you tard.
So you just LIED about someone else? Same difference.
I don't, LIAR. Everything I said is true. A LIAR wouldn't understand,
because you think everyone LIES, like you do.
Still waiting for your explanation of why you deliberately LIED:
"I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.
http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg"
You aren't going to live this down, until you admit your dishonesty.
Mike Vandeman
Because he's a LIAR.
Siskuwihane
Mike, I am sorry to hear that 3 airlines went bankrupt this week, that
must really put a damper on your weekend. I would suggest you go
hiking but I know someone who spends their life chasing windmills
doesn't have time to enjoy the outdoors.
magua...@gmail.com
and responded..here it is
>> so why do you talk with forked tongue?
>Why did Mike devote an entire thread to you on the mountain-bike group
>when you are not a mountain biker?
>Is he's delusional?
Because he's a LIAR.
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
His answer...BECAUSE HE'S A LIAR...in talking about HImself. Read
it...FINALLY. It is nice to see you break outta that shell mike.
Congrats. The first step is admitting it.
I am enjoying the great weather today....it is outside where you
should spend some time Mike. Mike, honesty...who is your favorite
authors? I am curious.
Mike Vandeman
Not curious enough to read my website. DUH!
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mjv1
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/biblio
SMS
> I think you are on the wrong side of this one Vandeman. The author makes
> several valid points about you and he having common goals, but because
> you are a crybaby you shut him out of the table where the common ground
> can be leveraged to arrive at a conservation plan that works for all.
> There is plenty of room in the wilderness for transient visitors of all
> types. What wilderness can not sustain is any form of permanant encampment.
Self-powered transportation should be allowed in the wilderness. What
needs to be banned in the wilderness is any kind of motorized transport,
as well as domesticated animals such as dogs and horses.