What part of "Do Not Block Intersection" don't you understand?
larry_s...@yahoo.com
22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
from either side.
At some intersections local authorities even post DO NOT BLOCK
INTERSECTION signs and paint the words KEEP CLEAR on the road surface
within the intersection.
I arrived at a red light where there is only room for 2 cars to wait
without blocking the intersection before the traffic light; there was
one car already waiting so I pulled into the 2nd space to await the
eventual green light. About half a minute later (with the light still
red), some fool pulled into the intersection behind me (blocking the
interesection in violation of the the posted sign, the pavement
markings, and the above-cited vehicle code section) and honked for me
to squeeze forward so that their car's nose could clear the
intersection (most of their car would have continued to block the
intersection, no matter how close I would have pulled up). Needless
to say, my car did not move until the light turned green and the car
ahead of me proceeded.
Would you have squeezed forward to allow that driver to partially
clear the intersection?
For those with local knowledge, this occurred on southbound Sepulveda
Blvd between Morrison St. and the exit from US-101 in Sherman Oaks, CA.
Jim Yanik
news:1181614120.1...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
AFAIK,if you are ahead of the white STOP line,you are IN the intersection.
That's WHY the big,wide white STOP line is there!
You are supposed to stop and wait BEHIND the line.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
The Real Bev
The question is whether or not to move forward allowing the jerk behind you
to move forward blocking LESS of the intersection than he is currently. I'd
say yeah, do it, even if he is a jerk -- it may allow enough room for an
innocent driver to cross behind the jerk.
And then back up forcefully and claim you were rear-ended.
--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------------
Don't you just KNOW that there is more than one
Sierra Club member who is absolutely sure that the
dinosaurs died out because of something humans did?
webs...@cox.net
> And then back up forcefully and claim you were rear-ended.
That has a certain nicety to it!
I run across this a lot at one certain intersection.
I get a bit frustrated however, when I am waiting so as not to block
the intersection, but someone empty-headed nut on my right makes the
right-on-red, essentially in front of me. Well, yeah, physically he
did not interfere with me, but right on red is when no traffic is
coming. Seems to me he should be busted. It makes me want to take
the intersection anyway.
necromancer
> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
> 22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
> Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
> indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
> intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
> the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
> the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
> from either side.
Maybe they need to write a version of that law in Spanish for all the
"guests," that are in these States these days.
> At some intersections local authorities even post DO NOT BLOCK
> INTERSECTION signs and paint the words KEEP CLEAR on the road surface
> within the intersection.
Maybe the signs/pavement markings need to be in Spanish also.
> I arrived at a red light where there is only room for 2 cars to wait
> without blocking the intersection before the traffic light; there was
> one car already waiting so I pulled into the 2nd space to await the
> eventual green light. About half a minute later (with the light still
> red), some fool pulled into the intersection behind me (blocking the
> interesection in violation of the the posted sign, the pavement
> markings, and the above-cited vehicle code section) and honked for me
> to squeeze forward so that their car's nose could clear the
> intersection (most of their car would have continued to block the
> intersection, no matter how close I would have pulled up). Needless
> to say, my car did not move until the light turned green and the car
> ahead of me proceeded.
>
> Would you have squeezed forward to allow that driver to partially
> clear the intersection?
Nope. I pull as far forward to the next car as is safe to do (usually
about 10 to 15 feet from that car's back bumper), leaving no room to
"squeeze," forward to.
Fred G. Mackey
> :
> Nope. I pull as far forward to the next car as is safe to do (usually
> about 10 to 15 feet from that car's back bumper), leaving no room to
> "squeeze," forward to.
>
I thought the OP's post was a bit unclear, but if I understand you
correctly, you think you need 10-15 feet of space between you and the
car in front of you in bumper to bumper traffic?
I must be missing something.
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
news:1181614120.1...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
being six inches or less away from the other vehicle's rear bumper, I might
squeeze forward out of courtesy.
But, once the driver honks their horn demanding that they be accommodated,
then that means no moving forward for the impatient driver behind me and
they can wait until the light turns green.
So, for the above scenario--no, I would not have squeezed forward.
bob zee
>
> Would you have squeezed forward to allow that driver to partially
> clear the intersection?
Hell no. I would've stayed put and even HESITATED before moving after
the light turned green. I am a dick, though.
:~)>
The exit of the parking lot of the company where I am employed is 5
yards (or less!) from a train crossing. It is a 2-lane road and very,
very busy. It took me 10 minutes to pull out yesterday - I have to
make a left, unfortunately. As I was sitting there, I counted NO LESS
than 5 cars that stopped on the railroad tracks. They couldn't have
moved forward or back if necessary.
I was really hoping to see some carnage yesterday, but I am sure I
will eventually.
bob z.
GK
> :
>> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
>> 22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
>> Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
>> indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
>> intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
>> the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
>> the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
>> from either side.
>
> Maybe they need to write a version of that law in Spanish for all the
> "guests," that are in these States these days.
>
>> At some intersections local authorities even post DO NOT BLOCK
>> INTERSECTION signs and paint the words KEEP CLEAR on the road surface
>> within the intersection.
>
> Maybe the signs/pavement markings need to be in Spanish also.
>
>
1 FOR ENGLISH or PUSH 2 FOR SPANISH.
There ya go.
GK
larry_s...@yahoo.com
> Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> >> For those with local knowledge, this occurred on southbound Sepulveda
> >> Blvd between Morrison St. and the exit from US-101 in Sherman Oaks, CA.
>
> >AFAIK,if you are ahead of the white STOP line,you are IN the intersection.
> >That's WHY the big,wide white STOP line is there!
> >You are supposed to stop and wait BEHIND the line.
>
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=34.160154,-118.466078&sp...
>
> There are two very closely spaced intersections with traffic lights:
> one for Morrison Street and one for the freeway off-ramp. Between them
> there is only space for a couple of cars. Sounds like the OP pulled up
> to the light at the off-ramp, and some MFFY pulled up behind him with
> the ass-end of his car partially blocking Morrison.
> --
Scott, you have read the situation correctly except that there is no
Signal at Morrison; the intersections are indeed closely spaced, but
the only Signal is at the freeway offramp. Otherwise, you have it
right.
Old Wolf
> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
> 22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
> Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
> indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
> intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
> the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
> the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
> from either side.
What a stupid law. Say the intersection is 15m across,
it means that every car in the stream of traffic has to
have a following distance of about 20m from the next
car to avoid breaking the law.
In my area the law is that you may not enter the
intersection if the exit is blocked by *stationary*
traffic.
DYM
@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
<SNIP...>
> to say, my car did not move until the light turned green and the car
> ahead of me proceeded.
>
> Would you have squeezed forward to allow that driver to partially
> clear the intersection?
>
> For those with local knowledge, this occurred on southbound Sepulveda
> Blvd between Morrison St. and the exit from US-101 in Sherman Oaks, CA.
>
No, I would not have moved forward. I stop a safe distance from the
vehicle in front of me (Make sure I can get around them in an emergency
w/o backing).
Also, I think these are the same idiots who stop on RR Tracks.
Do not cross that stop line unless you are sure you will be able to clear
the intersection.
I once got stuck at an intersection by a box truck that didn't clear the
intersection. I was stuck there for three cycles of the light! I was able
to snap a picture (camera phone) of his truck with the company's name and
phone painted on the side with a green traffic light in the back ground.
They were very dismayed that their driver was generating so much negative
publicity.
Doug
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
>Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
>22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
>Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
>indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
>intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
>the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
>the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
>from either side.
>
When has law had anything to do with compliance by the
retards?^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpopulace?
What you describe is commonplace in my region, and is yet another
reason I feel joy when I hear of another moron getting killed behind
the wheel.
--
We're all here
because we're not all there.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
I'd vote "no", as *hopefully* that "innocent motorist" is driving a
fully laden semi and doesn't have ample room to avoid the jerk. With
luck, the jerk's bad driving practices are forever eradicated, leaving
the roads safer for the remainder.
>And then back up forcefully and claim you were rear-ended.
Good idea!
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
Utilizing excess space (but not enough for another vehicle to squeeze
into) is a decent tactic for jacking with moronic drivers.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
>There's no way in hell I would sacrifice my space
>cushion just because some MFFY decided to violate the anti-gridlock
>law!
That law's purpose is to prevent gridlock? I always though it was to
prevent dumb asses from getting creamed by vehicles traveling with the
right of way (where is a stealth bus when you need one?)
Just another example of the government having to pass a useless law
because the average American is too stupid to have common sense. Too
many GPSTards and SADDAMs in the country. Fortunately Darwin's
harvesting them at around 110+ a day; let's hope he becomes far more
proficient in his task.
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
>On Jun 11, 10:08 pm, larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Would you have squeezed forward to allow that driver to partially
>> clear the intersection?
>
>Hell no. I would've stayed put and even HESITATED before moving after
>the light turned green. I am a dick, though.
>:~)>
>
>The exit of the parking lot of the company where I am employed is 5
>yards (or less!) from a train crossing. It is a 2-lane road and very,
>very busy. It took me 10 minutes to pull out yesterday - I have to
>make a left, unfortunately. As I was sitting there, I counted NO LESS
>than 5 cars that stopped on the railroad tracks. They couldn't have
>moved forward or back if necessary.
We've got a number of intersections around here like that.
>I was really hoping to see some carnage yesterday, but I am sure I
>will eventually.
Those intersections make for some interesting humor in the news paper
from time to time.
Question: Just how STUPID does an individual have to be to come to a
complete stop on rail road tracks? What, the tracks aren't sufficient
enough a clue to indicate a train might come through?
Get 'em, Darwin!
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
>On Jun 12, 2:08 pm, larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
>> 22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
>> Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
>> indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
>> intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
>> the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
>> the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
>> from either side.
>
>What a stupid law. Say the intersection is 15m across,
>it means that every car in the stream of traffic has to
>have a following distance of about 20m from the next
>car to avoid breaking the law.
It's common sense, and you don't have to drive in the manner you've
describe to remain compliant or safe.
>In my area the law is that you may not enter the
>intersection if the exit is blocked by *stationary*
>traffic.
Now that seems like a half-assed attempt at an implementation of the
above law. Say you're following another vehicle through an
intersection, and the light changes before you can clear it. Because
of other traffic ahead of you, you are unable to proceed. You're
sitting in the middle of traffic, and at best, causing a major
inconvenience to the drivers around you. At worst, you're putting
yourself up for a darwin award.
Not that it matters, though, because I think anyone who's stupid
enough to need this kind of law to govern their driving stands a
reasonable chance of becoming road kill.
Tim B
"Old Wolf" <old...@inspire.net.nz> wrote in message
news:1181686039.5...@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Once I was waiting at a green light for the traffic on the other side to
move forward enough that I could cross and not get stuck in the
intersection. My lane started to move, so I started out into the
intersection. So then an asshole cube van driver in the lane to my right
decided he wanted to be in my lane, so he made an illegal lane change in the
intersection and pulled right in front of me, taking up the open space I was
trying to pull into. So I was stuck behind him with the back of my car out
in the cross traffic and the front blocking the crosswalk, because traffic
stopped moving again. I was there for about 2 light cycles. It was about 5
pm and there were literally hordes of pedestrians trying to cross the street
to get to the train station which was on my right. They were forced to walk
on the street or squeeze between my car and the cube van. So even if you do
try to not block the intersection, somebody else could screw things up for
you.
Another annoying but more common situation is when you're waiting in the
right lane at the green, and the right turning cars keep grabbing your open
spot as is comes up. They can do this sometimes because they're closer (and
no cops are around), though legally they should be yielding.
The Real Bev
Naah, it happens all the time in spite of the law and everybody is going too
slow to do anything but sheet metal damage. What's especially nice is
several left-turning cars blocking the intersection, which snarls it up for
almost everybody.
--
Cheers,
Bev
O_________________________________________________O
"John Wayne toilet paper -- It's rough, it's tough,
and it don't take no crap from nobody."
Old Wolf
<drunk@the_wheel.com> wrote:
> Old Wolf wrote:
> >On Jun 12, 2:08 pm, larry_scholn...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Here in California we have a Do Not Block Intersection law (section
> >> 22526 of the CA Vehicle code, enacted in 1987 as the Anti-Gridlock
> >> Act), which says: Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal
> >> indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an
> >> intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on
> >> the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate
> >> the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles
> >> from either side.
>
> >What a stupid law. Say the intersection is 15m across,
> >it means that every car in the stream of traffic has to
> >have a following distance of about 20m from the next
> >car to avoid breaking the law.
>
> It's common sense, and you don't have to drive in the manner you've
> describe to remain compliant or safe.
Please describe what to do if you are following at a distance of
less than the intersection width, and the car in front of you
enters the intersection , to avoid breaking this law
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
>
>Naah, it happens all the time in spite of the law and everybody is going too
>slow to do anything but sheet metal damage. What's especially nice is
You give the motorists I share the road with WAY too much credit. Most
of these dullards have to be immediately on top of something before
it's recognized (cf "stealth buses").
>several left-turning cars blocking the intersection, which snarls it up for
>almost everybody.
--
We're all here
Murderous Speeding Drunken Driver
It's fairly obvious you're following too closely under these
circumstances; perhaps mass transit would be a safer alternative?
necromancer
> I like those steel pillars that rise up out of the pavement when
> you're not supposed to enter the intersection:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBltFt8lsWA&mode=related&search=
>
> These would also be great at railroad crossings, BTW.
And at the foot of the driveways of Carl and Aunt Judy.
Interesting to note how being hit by those things seems to make the
offending car's windshield wipers come on.....
--
Sincerely,
The New World Order.
bob zee
> bob zee <bobz...@gmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> >The exit of the parking lot of the company where I am employed is 5
> >yards (or less!) from a train crossing. It is a 2-lane road and very,
> >very busy. It took me 10 minutes to pull out yesterday - I have to
> >make a left, unfortunately.
>
No, I don't HAVE to turn left. (Yes, you caught me in a bit of a
stretch of the truth). I have, indeed, tried the turn right and go
around the block to put me on the correct side of the street and
heading the right way (for me). I timed it and it took me 10 minutes
to complete the maneuver. The traffic congestion is very sporadic so
I can't say the 'round robin' method would take 10 minutes every
time. The turn to the left directly, doesn't always take 10 minutes
either. On average, I am waiting 4 to 6 minutes to turn left. On a
really, really weird day I have no wait at all.
> Even if you don't capture any grade crossing collisions, you'll have a
> really nice collection of train run-bys which you can make a DVD out
> of and sell. :)
That is a very good idea!
:~)>
for the curious, here is map of my location:
(there is even a train in this picture!!!)
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.845707,-86.396863&spn=0.001501,0.002717&t=k&z=19&om=1
bob z.
Brent P
> One time some "safety-conscious" driver had stopped abot half a
> carlength behind the car in front of him at a red light. Unfortunately
> for me, he was position just perfect to block my access to the
> right-turn pocket. I honked politely, stuck my hand out the window,
> waved him forward, honked again. Finally - grudgingly - he inched
> forward far enough for me to squeeze past.
I had someone stop 2 maybe closer to 3 carlengths back to block me from a
left turn pocket. When I used the horn, he refused to move and flipped me
off.
> What would you have done?
In some instances, I've approached from the other lane and then done a
lane change in front of them. My vehicle is fully in the lane, and yes, they
leave that much space.
Old Wolf
> Old Wolf <oldw...@inspire.net.nz> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> >Please describe what to do if you are following at a distance of
> >less than the intersection width, and the car in front of you
> >enters the intersection , to avoid breaking this law
>
>
> Look ahead of the car in front of you. Is there space in front of him?
> Is traffic ahead of him flowing smoothly? Is there anything up ahead
> that might force people to stop?
>
> Weigh all of this evidence and then make a judgement call. It's simple
> for some of us, but virtually impossible for most drivers.
Well yes, but my point is that if you do still enter
the intersection before the previous car has exited it,
you've broken the law in question.
Sharon
> On Jun 11, 9:24 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And then back up forcefully and claim you were rear-ended.
>
> I run across this a lot at one certain intersection.
> I get a bit frustrated however, when I am waiting so as not to block
> the intersection, but someone empty-headed nut on my right makes the
> right-on-red, essentially in front of me. Well, yeah, physically he
> did not interfere with me, but right on red is when no traffic is
> coming. Seems to me he should be busted. It makes me want to take
> the intersection anyway.
Heck here in Northern VA, people will turn *left* and block the
intersection. Sometimes they even double up as if they think they take up
less space that way.
- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"
Ad absurdum per aspera
> AFAIK, if you are ahead of the white STOP line,you are IN the intersection.
Some problem intersections are entirely painted in a diamond pattern
and equipped with signs that read "DON'T BLOCK THE BOX" or something
similar, with smaller letters that give the pertinent chapter and
verse from the California Vehicle Code and the size of the fine. It
works, usually, as long as there's a cop sitting astride a motorcycle
in plain view.
A former workplace had a great view of the last intersection before an
on-ramp to the eastbound Bay Bridge. Third and Bryant, if memory
serves; and I seem to recall that in one direction there was a 4-6
p.m. carpool lane. At rush hour on Fridays, the presence of
multiple cops -- one to direct traffic and two or three to write up
the slow learners -- kept things barely below boiling point. Their
watch ended at 6 p.m. (one can't help noting that they went back to
the barn when the more lucrative carpool-lane violation no longer
pertained). On a bad night, within a few cycles of the traffic signal
after they'd left, civilization collapsed and it was Might Makes Right-
of-Way.
One night the collective inchings-forward and excessive optimism about
the immediate future and unenlightened self-interest all added up to
the closest thing to genuine gridlock that I've ever seen -- not
merely a lot of cars with nowhere to go, but a geometric stalemate
that prevented them from going even if things cleared out
downstream.
And then there was the night a big-rig was making a left turn and the
little car trying to snake the inside of the maneuver almost had
enough room...
I guess that a lot of people were home sick from kindergarten the day
they went over "waiting your turn," which come to think of it explains
a lot about driving.
--Joe