Re: [c4lj-articles] Re: Code4Lib Journal : rights & permissions inquiry

[Jonathan Rochkind]

It occurs to me that this whole thread should be on our public list too,
to get any feedback from anyone on there who might care.

So here you go forwarded. The summary is that EBSCO wants to index C4LJ,
possibly pay us royalties, but we need to sign some license with them,
and possibly do some up-front work (every issue) to deliver our content
to them.

Jonathan

Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
> Huh. I'm not sure we want to spend the extra time to format the content
> per their specs. Depends on what their standards are.
>
> A royalty could be interesting, but not worth really taking into account
> if it's going to end up being $5 a year or something. If it was going to
> be real money, it might be worth extra effort. Otherwise I'm inclined to
> say "ti's already CC-BY, you're welcome to it, but we're not going to do
> anything special."
>
> Jonathan
>
> Andrew Darby wrote:
>
>> She does say, para 2, "We pay you a royalty for the content."
>>
>> It sounds like they expect us to provide a copy of our content, rather
>> than themselves harvesting it (see the "Content/Data Delivery" section
>> of the Working with EP doc).
>>
>> I think indexing in EBSCO would be great, so long as they don't try to
>> restrict other avenues of access.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <roch...@jhu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If I understand what they are asking, I think the fact that we are
>>> licensed under CC-BY already gives them permission to do this, yes?
>>>
>>> I would certainly be pleased to have EBSCO index our full text.
>>>
>>> I don't particularly want to sign any special license with EBSCO, beyond
>>> a document that says "all of our content is licensed CC-BY, and we
>>> believe this gives you permission to go ahead with your plan, feel free."
>>>
>>> I don't believe EBSCO is offering us any royalties.
>>>
>>> We should probably assign one contact person to follow up with EBSCO. I
>>> volunteer, but if someone else wants it, I can step aside. We should be
>>> clear on who this person is before we respond, to avoid confusion.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> Sheila Laing wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Editorial Committee:
>>>>
>>>> I am contacting you today to express EBSCO Publishing's interest in
>>>> including the Code4Lib Journal in our research and bibliographic
>>>> databases that are distributed to the library marketplace. We are very
>>>> interested in talking with you more about including your publication on
>>>> LISTA with full text.
>>>> The main benefit is the significant domestic and international exposure
>>>> for your title. We pay you a royalty for the content. EBSCO's coverage
>>>> in academic libraries worldwide can address readers in areas which you
>>>> may not currently have a focus. The main goal is to be read and cited
>>>> and to drive interested users to your website.
>>>>
>>>> I have attached to this email a document that covers in some detail what
>>>> licensing means for your publication. Please visit our website at
>>>> www.ebscohost.com <blocked::UrlBlockedError.aspx> for more information.
>>>>
>>>> There are no costs associated with this licensing relationship. We do
>>>> all of the work required here and provide abstracts, indexing,
>>>> bibliographic data, live links to publishers, linked cited references
>>>> and a consistent interface with the end user (library patrons).
>>>>
>>>> You may be interested and pleased to know that we have many "open
>>>> access" journals licensed and available on our databases. Licensing with
>>>> us is very beneficial for open access journals, as it draws a much
>>>> larger population of people to these journals' websites. Not only does
>>>> EBSCO supply its databases to 90% of the libraries in North America,
>>>> EBSCO provides nation-wide access to its databases in more than 70
>>>> countries including developing nations with emerging economies. As a
>>>> result, publishers and learned societies participating in EBSCO's
>>>> databases gain increased exposure for their publications in the world's
>>>> most prestigious institutions, and in markets where these publications
>>>> may not currently have strong penetration. It is important to note, that
>>>> libraries are already subscribing to our databases to provide EBSCOhost
>>>> to their patrons (students, members, etc.) there is no cost to the
>>>> end-user. By making your content available for licensing, the libraries
>>>> would gain access for no additional cost to them.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to send to you a standard licensing agreement for your
>>>> review. At your convenience, I would welcome the chance to talk with you
>>>> further. Your attention to this would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Sheila
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sheila Laing| Content Licensing | EBSCO Publishing | Phone:
>>>> (978)356-6500 ext. 2630 or (800)653-2726 ext. 2630 | f: (978)356-5191 |
>>>> www.ebscohost.com <http://www.ebscohost.com/> | 10 Estes Street,
>>>> Ipswich, MA 01938 USA
>>>>
>>>> Are you attending the Charleston or Society of Scholarly Publishing
>>>> Conferences this November?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any attached files transmitted are confidential and
>>>> solely for the use of the intended recipient. It may contain information
>>>> which is covered by professional or other privilege. If you are neither
>>>> the intended recipient of this e-mail nor the person responsible for
>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, be advised that you have
>>>> received this e-mail in error and that any use of it is strictly
>>>> prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and
>>>> then delete from your system. EBSCO Industries, Inc., its subsidiaries
>>>> and divisions, accept no responsibility for any loss or damage suffered
>>>> by any person arising from the use of this e-mail.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Rochkind
>>> Digital Services Software Engineer
>>> The Sheridan Libraries
>>> Johns Hopkins University
>>> 410.516.8886
>>> rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886
rochkind (at) jhu.edu

[Jodi Schneider]

I'd really like to see the Journal indexed, and I think that LISTA would be an appropriate place.

Now that we have 4 issues, I'd also like us to think about site indexing at journal.code4lib.org. For instance, a title index, an author index,... could help with browsing (rather than searching) the site.

-Jodi

[Edward M. Corrado]

Providing it isn't too much work, I'm all for indexing in Ebsco's
database. If there is any real money involved, I'm sure we can figure
out a way to spend it. Maybe Ebsco could be a sponsor of Code4Lib
conference in exchange? I guess it depends on what these royalties
are. Maybe wwe can say no royalites, just sponsor at X level. This way
we wouldn't need a formal bank account for the journal? They probably
don't normally work that way, but it is something we can ask.

[Jonathan Rochkind]

Jodi, would you like to be the contact person for this issue, and follow
up with EBSCO?

I agree it would be great if we were indexed in EBSCO.

My concerns are:
1) That it's not too much extra work for us. It might also be worth
finding out how much money they estimate the 'royalties' would be,
perhaps based on other open access journals they have made similar
arrangements with---if the royalties are significant, it might effect
how much work we're willing to do, if they are nominal, we still don't
want much extra work (we have trouble keeping up even with the work we
already have).

2) They they don't want us to sign anything that conflicts with CC-BY.
All our content is already licensed under CC-BY, we cant' give them
'exclusive' rights to anything, we can't agree to limit access to anyone
else. And we don't own the copyright for articles we publish, the
authors do.

I might also suggest to them that they investigate getting an OAI-PMH
feed from DOAJ. Due to the SPARC project, DOAJ should already identify
which journals contained are licensed CC-BY. Anything licensed CC-BY
and including metadata in DOAJ, EBSCO can just harvest that from DOAJ
without paying royalties or getting permission from anyone, and without
any extra work from anyone. I'd suggest they consider doing that, and
save us all the headache. :)

Jonathan

[Tom Keays]

I am kind of psyched that EBSCO is considering indexing us. However,
Jonathan's suggestion seems like the right approach.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of harvesting the text is -- if
there are linked code snippets, that's likely going to get lost. I
think I'd prefer that they just link back to the article. It certain
is NOT worth our converting a corpus of text for them. Of course, the
royalties consideration might make such an effort more worthwhile.

Tom

[Jonathan Rochkind]

The point of harvesting the text is so it's in EBSCO's index, and
searches on EBSCO's index can match words in the full text of our articles.

Jonathan

[Jodi Schneider]

I spoke with Sheila. She'll be sending us some additional information and an agreement.

Best,
Jodi