[C320-list] Water in the Bilge

[Michael Leschisin]

For anyone who’s willing to provide some feedback,

I’m wondering how much water is normal to find in the bilge following a good rainstorm. My wife and I purchased our 320 a little over a year ago and I typically find about a pint or two of water in the bilge after a healthy rainstorm. I’m guessing this is normal and coming in via the mast and compression post since there seems to be a drain hole in the bilge just under the compression post base near where the mast and radar wiring exits the post.

Earlier this week I went up to the boat, which is on the hard for the winter, and much to my horror, found about a quart and a half of frozen water in the front of the three bilge compartments. (But only in the forward compartment) Fortunately, the water floated above the -100 antifreeze I had in the bilge before it froze, so none of the keel bolts or the pump were affected, but scary none the less. We had a fair amount of rain this fall and even in early January, but this seems like a lot of water, especially for a boat that is under a winter cover with no way for water to hit the decks, cockpit, port lights, hatches, etc.

I’m wondering if this amount is a normal compilation of this season’s rainfall or if I need to trouble shoot some other problem.


Thanks for the help,



Michael Leschisin
#995, Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

[pat reynolds]

With the top sides, ports and cockpit covered that would seem to leave the rub rails as a possible source.  We did a race in heavy weather for 22 hours where the rub rails were constantly being submerged and vacuumed 75 gallons of water out of the interior afterwards.   

[Bob Hoyt]

I don’t see any after a rain storm but want to hear from others
Bob Hoyt
Ikigai
#58
Pensacola Fl

> --

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Cell: 850-384-5235

[Joe Luciano]

I typically have a dry bilge on my 320, but I don’t think it’s likely that the mast wiring is bringing it in unless you see moisture right where the wiring comes in from above the deck. I’ve seen water get to the bilge from strange places on boats that I have owned. One method I’ve used to see where the water is coming from is to take pieces of paper towel and place them in areas above the low point in the bilge to get an idea of the direction the water is coming from. Then I try to trace it back to the source. You could have a leak through a stanchion connection to the deck, window, the chain plate areas, or elsewhere from plumbing. These can be very difficult to pinpoint with relatively small amounts of water. The other method when all else fails involves pressurizing the cabin slightly with air pressure and soaping various connections to look for bubbles on the outside of the deck. I’ve seen that done in a boat yard, but have never had to do it myself. Best of Luck!

Joe Luciano
Second Wind
2005 Catalina 320
Anacortes, WA

[Gerald Rouillard]

Mike,
After I replaced all my leaking portlights, I was able to dry out my bilge and get it painted. That helped me find what was still leaking, and I've pretty much pinned it down to the starboard stanchion that serves as the forward gate-post for the cockpit. Not a big leak, and it only shows up after a heavy rain - or wash job - so I know it's not below the waterline.

Interesting how long it took for me to realize my old standard, the salt water "taste test" didn't have any relevance for a boat sitting in fresh water!

Sailor Jerry,
Wind Song, #283

Sent from my iPad

[ARTHUR GATES]

The starboard stanchion is easier to take off than the other one. We have had to remove both two-legged stanchions over the past 12 years for rewelding and sealing. Both are very awkward to get at from below!

We have water damage from leaks around the solar output fan which is on the deck near the fuel cap.
I am removing the teak slats and sheet in the cabin below due to water damage not reasonably repairable.

Does anyone have suggestions for alternative decorative covering for that starboard side of the owner's stateroom?
The hull surface behind seems to be part of the inner liner, so one option is to polish or paint that.

The input solar fan is on the main cabin mid-ship hatch. The two combine to circulate the cabin air about once/hr. -- which is a good thing in the SW FL heat. Rollie #182

[pat reynolds]

I removed mine years ago and bought a sheet of paneling to replace it but never got around to it.  Unfinished side looks good to me after cleaning

[Dave Cushman]

Leaking portlights for sure would be one source. After changing the
Lewmars I have had no issues. Also check to see there are no leaks in
the fresh water system under the galley sink. I had a dripping fitting
from the pressure water near the hot water heater that contributed to a
nuisance water in the bilge, but once I changed a few things it was all
good and tight.

Good  luck.

Dave

It Tips #631

[ARTHUR GATES]

Another source of leaks could be the emergency tiller plate near the binnacle if the rubber gasket is worn. Rollie #182

[Ade Bateman]

It took me about three years to find and seal all the places that water was getting in from rain. Here are the various places I had to fix (in rough order by how much water came in):

* Stanchions - I had to remove and reseal three stanchions
* Emergency tiller plate - this was a big one and took several attempts to fix - not only was there a leak from the gasket but also between deck and plate
* Cockpit shower assembly - there was a crack in the plastic that allowed (a lot of) rain water to drip inside
* Portlights - I removed and resealed two new-style Lewmar portlights (presumably updated by previous owner) and replaced one old-style Lewmar portlight
* Genoa track - I had a small leak from a couple of bolts for the genoa track
* Handrail - I had a small leak over the galley from one of the bolts holding the handrail on the cabin top
* Water tank vent - there was a small leak where the aft-water tank vent went through the hull - I replaced the vent and resealed
* Chain plates - there was a small leak from around one of the chain plates that I resealed
* Cowl vent - this was the last one I found - there was a tiny leak around both cowl vents on the transom - I could probably have left this but was happier once I sealed it

Now, knock on wood, the bilge is dry even after heavy rain.

Ade.

[Dave Hupe]

Michael-
Several have responded already to you and mentioned general leak problems that don't necessarily relate specifically to your question about water in the front bilge areas.  
Since buying our boat in early 2017, my bilge has been consistently bone dry (halleluiah) after having great success tracking down and fixing different leaks (I won't go into all that here).  However, just like you recently (after putting the boat on the hard and covering it ) I unexpectedly discovered water (not a gross amount) in my front-most 3 shallow bilge areas).  These bilge areas are forward of the mast and interconnected, but do not connect directly with the main bilge areas (where my keel bolts are).  
I'm not sure yet, but I believe it is possible the water I encountered was there all summer and possibly due to unnoticed slow seepage from my speed transducer.  I had removed and reseated the transducer for the first time before launching the boat last year.  I had not lifted the floor boards that covered these specific bilge areas until just recently to air out all spots well. I have since dried the areas up and only a couple tablespoons of wetness has recurred (and only in the most forward bilge area near to my transducers).  A friend with a newer 320 had suggested that the water might be from condensation, but no water occurred in any other areas. So, I don't think condensation is the cause. Also, I can't find any signs of other contributing  leaks. 
I am monitoring this to see if the water comes back, but I still suspect slight previous seepage from my speed transducer that went unnoticed and just stayed pooled in the front bilge areas. 
Dave Hupe
1994 Cat320 (hull #32)
Holland, MI

[Michael Leschisin]

Hey Guy,

Thanks for all the info regarding water in the bilge.

Just as a follow up to last week in case anyone is experiencing similar issues….I called Catalina technical services last week and their answer to my question about water entering the bilge through the mast base was that yes, there is a opening where the mast wiring enters the cabin top/mast base and runs through the compression post and into the bilge. They also said there is a two inch standpipe inside the mast on top of this hole to deter water from entering and that many dealers, when setting up the boat, will fill this with silicon to close it off. Apparently mine didn’t, so I’ll check that out next time I unstep the mast. Does anyone presently have their mast unstepped and are able to confirm this arraignment?

My guess is that I have water entering via the halyard openings as it runs down the mast, since I had ice blocked up primarily in the front of the bilge. I dug out about a gallon and a half of slushy somewhat diluted antifreeze from bilge in minus 10 degree weather this weekend and replaced it with fresh minus one hundred. We’re headed for a low of -23 with a 50 below windchill Wednesday night and then 38 degrees and a chance of rain again on Sunday! Guess I’ll see how many holes in the mast I can stop up on Saturday.


Michael

[thar...@innovations-plus.com]

My mast is off. I confirm this information to be true... on my boat.

Ted Harrison
Hull 424 1997

[Michael Leschisin]

Thanks Ted,

Just curious what the diameter of the hole running down into the compression post is?

Michael Leschisin
#995, Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

[Chris Burti]

Michael,
Water coming in from the mast most frequently results from the drains in
the mast step becoming clogged by dirt and spider webs, allowing the water
that naturally comes in the mast to rise over that stand pipe. Cleaning the
half dozen or so slots around the base will likely resolve your problem.
Routine flushing with a hose avoids the problem.

We had a tech article in Mainsheet on the mast base a couple of years ago
(Dave?)

Chris Burti
Commitment. #867
Farmville, NC

[Michael Leschisin]

Good Info! I will check that out this weekend.

Thanks Chris

Michael Leschisin
#995, Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

[thar...@innovations-plus.com]

I not really sure. I am going to guess at 1 inch. The boat is on the hard right now and covered for the winter.

I have a picture I can send you. Just send me an email to thar...@innovations-plus.com and I will send it to you.

Ted

[P.F. Ross]

I have added pictures to my member album that show some of the work I did
when my mast was last unstepped a couple of years ago (the last four pics
in my album). One of the pics shows the standpipe that sticks up through
the step plate and into the bottom area of the mast. You can also see how
the drain hole is supposed to empty the bottom of the mast through the
connected slot passageways.

Regards,

Frank Ross
Beta Wave #206
Naples, FL

[John Meyers]

Michael,

It is cold here in Muskegon Michigan too but we can thank that big lake we
sail on to keep us several degrees warmer than those on the west side. On
the other hand we get a LOT of lake effect snow too.

I sort of remember (but cannot verify as I don't have water in my bilge
from the mast) that there may be a hole in the step that allows water to
drain out. But that hole may be plugged with goop or some sort. Use a wire
and poke around the step. If not maybe you could drill a very small hole in
the mast to drain the water onto the deck.

John Meyers
Wind Chime #406
Muskegon, MI

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 10:11 AM Michael Leschisin <
mlesc...@imagestudios.com> wrote:

[Graeme Clark]

Disassembled mast step photos are available on the main site under technical photos here (see Mast Step Project)

https://c320.org/mediagallery/album.php?aid=4&sort=0&page=8

I would bet $10 to 10c that your bilge water isn't coming through the mast step at all though but arriving between the hull and the liner through leaks at the base of the stanchions, pulpit, and pushpin.
Also if the cockpit and lazaretto lockers get deluged and the gutters aren't kept clean water can overflow into the hull, as it also can through the joint of the hinge on the port cockpit locker.

How do i know? I completely waterproofed my mast-step when I replaced the standing rigging and I still get water in the bilge!

Graeme
1996, #366

[Jack Brennan]

If you’re bound and determined to hunt down every last drip, a good way to do it is to get some chalk and draw lines in various spots around the bilge.

After the next rain, you’ll be able to trace the paths of the dribbles as they work their way toward the bilge.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320, no. 528
Tierra Verde, Fl.
Dolphin Cruising Club of Tampa Bay



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

[Michael Leschisin]

Thanks Graeme,

I’ll have to give the boat a good testing this spring and see if I have water entering from any of those areas. I like Jack’s idea of using the chalk. (That sounds like a good plan of action.Thanks Jack)

The reason I’m kind of obsessing over the mast base is that I had about a quart and a half of solid ice only in the forward of the three bilge compartments, none in the other compartments, no ice under the floorboards on the edges of the bilge. The ice was frozen above the antifreeze, not mixed with it, as though water had come slowly into the front of the bilge and froze on contact with the antifreeze that would have been below 32 degrees at the time. Don’t know if thats right, but the only explanation I can come up with for a pretty weird ice set……

Not sure which is more fun, chasing water leaks or chasing electrical shorts!

[pcla...@tampabay.rr.com]

I too thought my water was coming from the mast and laid out paper
towels around the mast and sides of the bilge. Nope! Seem the water is
coming in from somewhere in the stern area.
Patricia #736 Knot HomeRiverview, FL

-----------------------------------------From: "Michael Leschisin"
To: C320...@Catalina320.com
Cc:
Sent: Monday January 28 2019 4:47:23PM

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Water in the Bilge

Thanks Graeme,

I’ll have to give the boat a good testing this spring and see if I
have water entering from any of those areas. I like Jack’s idea of
using the chalk. (That sounds like a good plan of action.Thanks Jack)

The reason I’m kind of obsessing over the mast base is that I had
about a quart and a half of solid ice only in the forward of the three
bilge compartments, none in the other compartments, no ice under the
floorboards on the edges of the bilge. The ice was frozen above the
antifreeze, not mixed with it, as though water had come slowly into
the front of the bilge and froze on contact with the antifreeze that
would have been below 32 degrees at the time. Don’t know if thats
right, but the only explanation I can come up with for a pretty weird
ice set……

Not sure which is more fun, chasing water leaks or chasing electrical
shorts!

Michael

Michael Leschisin
#995, Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

> On Jan 28, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Graeme Clark wrote:
>
> Disassembled mast step photos are available on the main site under
technical photos here (see Mast Step Project)
>
> https://c320.org/mediagallery/album.php?aid=4&sort=0&page=8

/> >

> I would bet $10 to 10c that your bilge water isn't coming through
the mast step at all though but arriving between the hull and the
liner through leaks at the base of the stanchions, pulpit, and
pushpin.
> Also if the cockpit and lazaretto lockers get deluged and the
gutters aren't kept clean water can overflow into the hull, as it also
can through the joint of the hinge on the port cockpit locker.
>
> How do i know? I completely waterproofed my mast-step when I
replaced the standing rigging and I still get water in the bilge!
>
> Graeme
> 1996, #366
>

>>>>>> InformaticsEducation.org >>>>> reh...@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rober...@unmc.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cell: 850-384-5235
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Links:
------
[1] http://InformaticsEducation.org

[A NYE]

We have cured various leaks including port lights, internal plumbing leaks, we jet out the mast drain hole and everything is ok for some months then back to first two foreword chambers in bilge being full of fresh water!! Another thing to watch out for is the vent on the hot water tank, even though the valve has been replaced it still vents and like others we route via flexible pipe to plastic bottle! On previous boats I haven’t had this issue.
Tony Nye Scallywag #450 UK

Sent from my iPad

[Michael Leschisin]

Looks like I’ll have to do some testing this spring.

As a friend of mine put it the other day— “Water….... Throughout the summer- Best Friend; Come time to store the boats- Enemy #1”

Michael Leschisin
#995, Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

[Doug Treff]

Check the bedding around the emergency tiller port.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us