[C320-list] Water under Sewage Holding Tank

[Jeff Smith]

I am looking for some ideas. As I was reinstalling my supports under my starboard settee, of course I dropped my screwdriver under the holding tank. When I looked under the tank with a flashlight, I noticed a decent amount of water. I plan to go buy a wet/dry shop-vac tomorrow morning, as we are shoving off for Cape Charles early. Here are my questions:

1. Any ideas for the most likely point of entry if it is almost midship? It could have come from an overfilled forward water tank, as I have not been here since TS Isaias. It also could have been the TS.

2. Where does this water drain? I expected it to flow to the bilge; however, after emptying the bilge (I need to replace bilge pump and switch), the water has not moved.

I smelled the water (I did not have the intestinal fortitude to taste it) and it smelled like fresh water. I am assuming it is from the torrential rains. However, I have never checked under there before, as I assumed all water entering the boat would find its way to the bilge.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Jeff Smith
‘94, #121

Sent from a TRS80 computer

[Dave Hupe]

Jeff-
Does your boat have a macerator pump and associated thruhull?  My boat does not,  but if you had one the thruhull might be leaking?
It is possible that water could get into the structural grid below the bilge.
Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32

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[Dave Hupe]

Actually another thought....my boat has water lines to the head sink that run right next to the holding tank (behind it next to the head bulkhead).  I realized I had a leak in one of these lines and need to replace both.  The leak fed water into my structural grid and eventually seeped up into the bilge around my keel bolts.
Dave Hupe1994 C320 #32

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[Jeff Smith]

If that is the case, I think I could put a few drops of food coloring, maybe more than a few, to see if the water color matches the tank. It smells fresh so I do not suspect the macerator thru-hull. We did pump out recently and flushed the tank with fresh water (back through the pump out hole).

Thanks,

Jeff

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> On Aug 21, 2020, at 10:32 PM, Dave Hupe <hoop...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Actually another thought....my boat has water lines to the head sink that run right next to the holding tank (behind it next to the head bulkhead). I realized I had a leak in one of these lines and need to replace both. The leak fed water into my structural grid and eventually seeped up into the bilge around my keel bolts.

[Michael Ferguson]

I installed a second pump in that area on my hull 169. That lower bildge did not have a pump installed by Catalina. The water in mine usually comes from rain or washing. Michael

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[appl...@yahoo.com]

You do not want to cut a limber hole from that compartment into the bilge.
In case of a spill with any of the plumbing, including the macerator, you want to contain the liquid.
- Joe Jablonowski

[ks...@aol.com]

I discovered water in that spot a year ago.  In my boat that is a low spot.  My guess now is that fresh water had been there a long time (source unverified) and simply had nowhere to go.  Without tasting, the smell was obviously NOT from the tank, so all I did was sop the puddle up with a microfiber cloth and wait.  It stayed dry so I was good to go.  My conclusion was the leak had been repaired by the PO or was a one-time occurrance.  Good luck!  Neil Kornblatt #973  Harmony

[Christian]

Jeff,
I'm close to hull numbers with you, and I too have been getting some water
in that area for a few years now, yet to find the source. I was also first
concerned it was waste water, but mine is clearly not (no smell, very
clear). I keep a Lithium battery powered DeWalt wet vac on board, and once
a month suck up the water to prevent a bilge smell from that area.

A while back, someone posted that leaking/overfilling after tank can cause
water to pool there.

If you find the source, please share.

Christian Caperton
1994 C320 #138 "Canuck" Monroe Harbor, Chicago, IL

[Graeme Clark]

We used to get this on my previous 320 (#303) after sailing in a fresh wind on a port tack. I came to the conclusion that water from the bilge was spilling into this area but getting trapped when the boat righted

The battery cables pass through the floor matrix to reach the starboard side then up to the electrical panel

That floor matrix doesn’t seem to me to be water right. There are couds at each end so once the boat is heeled over water can get in. Never cured it but my new C320 (#366) doesn’t have the same problem

Graeme

Sent from my phone. Excuse typos!

> On 22 Aug 2020, at 16:07, Christian <cca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff,

[Dave Hupe]

Graeme-
Did you heel a lot on the port tack?  Could you have been taking in water around the side mounted holding tank vent?  That would be located where such a leak might settle near the holding tank. 
Dave Hupe1994 C320 #32

[Graeme Clark]

I’m a chicken fair weather sailor. Never get that far over!
G

Sent from my phone. Excuse typos!

> On 22 Aug 2020, at 19:51, Dave Hupe <hoop...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Graeme-

[P.F. Ross]

I also belong to this club and am in a multi-year effort to join the "dry
bilge" group. So far, I have

--Installed PYI dripless shaft seal
--Rebedded all chainplates (all rebedding done with butyl rubber)
--Rebedded salon overhead hatch
--Rebedded all lifeline stanchions
--Replaced all seven opening portlights with the newer improved design
Lewmars
--Rebedded fixed portlight in aft berth
--Rebedded mast support post plate
--Rebedded forward hatch
--Replaced gasket in emergency tiller cover
--Checked all fresh water tank fittings, hoses and connections

I have yet to rebed the propane tank locker.

I also have yet to completely stop ingress of water into the nether-bilge,
although it has slowed. Like others, I use a wet vac to suck it up on
occasion. Seems like it can appear from sailing and/or rain and/or boat
washing. Also like others, I am not brave enough to taste it (even though
I am pretty sure it is not from the holding tank).

At some point there will be nothing else I can do (and these things
probably all need to be done anyway on a boat as old as mine). I will then
follow Christian's idea of a cordless wet vac which will at least be easier
than dragging my corded wet vac out.

We still love the boat and this group!

Frank Ross
Beta Wave #206
Naples, FL

[Dave Hupe]

Wow Frank !!
I'd love to have your tips about rebedding the stanchions and if you can remember what size nuts were involved. 

Dave Hupe1994 C320 #32

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On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 4:27 PM, P.F. Ross<pfr...@gmail.com> wrote: I also belong to this club and am in a multi-year effort to join the "dry

[P.F. Ross]

Dave, I have been following the tie rod discussion (and have been there)
but am far away from my boat and cannot exactly recall nut sizes.

I moved my boat (via truck) from the midwest to SW FL in 2015 and while it
was in the boat yard there (and before the mast was stepped) I was able to
(somewhat) easily rebed the chain plates and mast support post. There is
some good info sprinkled around the 320 website about the chain plates, and
Graeme had some good pics on the mast support post (and I have since added
some pics to my album).

This is strictly from memory, but I think I took a 19mm open end wrench and
sawed off the handle so that there was only about 1" (or 2.54mm since this
was a metric wrench) handle remaining. I was then able to use that to
somewhat turn the nuts, but since the rig was down and there was no load on
the rods, I recall being able to turn the nuts by hand. I decided to not
adjust the nuts since I knew when the rig was reinstalled, the tension
would return and I did not want to change the original geometry which
seemed to be working fine (except for leaky chainplates, that is).

Sorry I could not be more helpful.

[Ade Bateman]

For me, water collected in this spot almost no matter where it entered. I had several leaks near the stern (emergency tiller cover, cracked stern shower enclosure, after tank vents, even small leaks from the air vents in the transom). All these leaks would eventually resulted in water under the holding tank as about the lowest spot in the boat. I would shopvac it out and continue the search for leaks. It took me a few years to find them all, but my bilge has been dry and dusty for a while now. It's only a matter of time before something else happens and the search begins again.

Ade
Sound Thinking #257

[Dave Hupe]

Jeff-
Another item comes to mind regarding your water accumulating below the waste holding tank.  Are you using your head and pumping in lake/seawater from outside (rather than using water from your water tanks as many folks do)?  You should have a vented loop  https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=forespar-vented-loop&path=-1|51|2234294&id=2681269  in the hose feeding water to the toilet, located somewhere behind your head medicine cabinet (easy to remove with 4 screws). It is just like the vented loop on your engine seawater feed.  If the duckbill in the vented loop for your toilet is bad, it is possible that you are leaking  lake water out the duckbill when you pump the water for the toilet.  I'm thing this might be close enough to the waste tank to be your water source ???

Dave Hupe

1994 C320 #32

Holland, MI

[Jeff Smith]

Dave,

We do not use Bay water to clean the head. I have a new theory now. I know I have leaks at the stern (I have seen water running down the steering column cable and the emergency tiller cable). In fact, I need to search the association website for information on rebedding the pedestal to see if that stops my leak. Previously I observed water around the access port in the aft cabin. I have used silicone caulk to stop that leak into the cabin, but I need to eliminate the source. Based on conversations with you and other posts on the list, I think the water that I noticed under the waste tank must be a slow accumulation from external rain sources. I also think that, since I have never checked there, it has been accumulating since we bought the boat four years ago. My thought process up until now has been that water that entered the boat, even astern or in the bow, made its way to the bilge. Now, I do not think that is the case. So, my plan is to monitor it monthly, now that I have it essentially dry, and see how much water accumulates there. I no longer suspect the sewage tank so I am leaving that strapped into the boat. I also do not suspect a failing thru-hull.

Engine update - When you mentioned the crush washers, I felt guilty. I went to Harbor Freight and bought a pack of 80 assorted copper washers for $7. As I started changing all of the washers on the banjo fittings and the two fittings on the secondary filter housing, I noticed one washer missing on the bottom side of the outlet pipe leaving the mechanical lift pump. I put new washers on both and that eliminated the diesel leak and probably any air in the system, though I need to run it for more than five minutes to confirm. It also did not shut down when I put it in Forward and Reverse, though I could tell it is still not fully functional. Thankfully, the divers will be cleaning this week, so I asked them to let me know how the gear looks and to confirm that my blades rotate freely (I have a max prop). I did not dive on it myself because the water at Old Point Comfort is not good (old Army fort). So, thank you for the gentle reminder. Otherwise, I would not have found the missing washer.

I don't think I mentioned that we limped back to the marina at full throttle with the boat barely making 2 knots and the engine clearly not making full power. If I took it out of gear, you could hear the rpms spin up quickly when I advanced the throttle. Initially, it would shut down going into Forward and Reverse. I finally got it to continue to run in Forward, which is how we were running with the throttle wide open. However, as I pulled past my slip heading toward land (and rocks) so I could back into the slip, that is when I determined that it would not stay running in reverse, as it continually bogged down. I did finally get it running in Forward and I was able to spin it around and head back up the fairway. By that time, a few friends were able to catch some lines and walk us back into the slip.

So, if I can just figure out the drivetrain issue (hopefully fouled prop or shaft), we may be able to sail this fall.

Jeff

[Doug Treff]

Jeff,

I just fixed a similar leak which turned out to be the forward deck fill. Believe it or not... The water was dripping down onto the fiberglass compartment behind the table seating area, and running down towards the head. It filled up the aft cubby behind the seat back above the sewage tank and then overflowed into the same area you found. At first thought it was chainplates and them I found the wood strips on the hull side were wet.

On Sunday morning I rebedded the fill port. We had two torrential down pours yesterday evening and today. No more leak. Dry as a bone.

If you feel up under the deck right aft of the bulkhead, you can feel if it's wet in there after a rain storm.

--
Doug Treff
do...@treff.us