[C320-list] Starter Battery and Echo Charger

[Sara Skinner Schroeder]

My 2000 C20 has two 4D deep cycle batteries. I figure I have about 190amp hr capacity for each which if they are not discharged more than 50% I have about 80amp hrs each. She has never had a starter battery. After a weekend rafting with friends I did some analysis on my battery usage. It goes without saying that the refrigeration was the biggest draw. I got nervous that the batteries would not have enough CCA to start the engine so I turned off the refer the night before heading home. I did charge the batteries for a few hours on day 2 but was still not comfortable with how fast the batteries were being depleted. I have a few, somewhat unrelated questions, as I figure out what’s going to be added to the boat next.
1. What kind and size of starter battery do you recommend. Where did you put it?
2. What kind of echo charger do you recommend.
3. My 20 yr old Adler Barber refrigerator compressor is drawing 5.5amps at a setting of 4-5. Does that seem reasonable? I’m wondering if the compressor is starting to fail. It works great and I always have ice but I have no idea how long they usually last.
4. I’m also thinking of getting a solar panel I can throw on the deck to help with battery charging at anchor. Does anyone do this?

This stuff is still smoke-and-mirrors to me so I appreciate the input. Finally, my last post was about the installation of my Raymarine autopilot. Thanks to Jack Brennan’s advice and instructions it’s up and running! I even replaced the steering cable while I had it all torn apart. Whew!!!
Sara
Wandering Star
2000/#707

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[Greg Flanagan]

I also had just the 2 X 4D battery system with the A/B switch when I bought Hoop Dancer in 2006. After a couple of years I was having trouble starting after a few days at anchor. I then installed an independent starter battery. It is in the port stern locker close to the centre line in a battery box. The cables run from there directly to the engine through the channel under the berth boards. The positive cable goes through a switch on the side of the bed (in the foot well) near the aft engine cowl. This placement also means I can shut off the power to the engine when I close the raw water seacock. I switch it on when I reopen the raw water. This solves a problem recently discussed where sometimes the engine is started with it the raw water closed and overheating happens.

The starter battery is a marine diehard battery (not deep cycle). It is charged with a Xantrex (http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx) echo charger. This has been working fine for ~12 years. As I prefer to anchor and would never run the engine just to charge a battery. I very early adopted solar. My initial panel was a GoPower 160W with their controller, which kept me out of trouble but not completely worry free. A few years ago I added a couple of flexible Renology 100W panels. Now I have surplus energy and this year my battery never went done to less than 85% overnight (I have a Balmar Smartgauge). I do not plug in to shore power all season even in my home dock. I now also have a Torqeedo electric outboard (another great story) and when the house battery is charged I charge this battery with power that would otherwise be dumped by the solar controller. I am very satisfied with my whole system and will be putting in an inverter to be able to use my toaster too!

Cheers,

Greg
Hoop Dancer #1076
Sidney, BC
PS I have the same refrigerator and your calculation is correct. I converted all my lights to LEDs when I went solar so yes it is the greatest house draw. When sailing though the chart-plotter, auto pilot, radar etc. have high draws.

> On Aug 11, 2020, at 9:08 PM, Sara Skinner Schroeder <sara...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> My 2000 C20 has two 4D deep cycle batteries. I figure I have about 190amp hr capacity for each which if they are not discharged more than 50% I have about 80amp hrs each. She has never had a starter battery. After a weekend rafting with friends I did some analysis on my battery usage. It goes without saying that the refrigeration was the biggest draw. I got nervous that the batteries would not have enough CCA to start the engine so I turned off the refer the night before heading home. I did charge the batteries for a few hours on day 2 but was still not comfortable with how fast the batteries were being depleted. I have a few, somewhat unrelated questions, as I figure out what’s going to be added to the boat next.

[Graeme Clark]

A few years ago I used a proper ammeter to measure the power drawn by various boat systems. (this was a 1996 model #303)

Obviously individual differences in kit fitted will affect this but its a good guide:-

So, working down from most power hungry to least (figures have been rounded to a sensible significant figure)

Mikuni Heater when starting 18.0Amps
Fridge - when actually running 6.0 Amps
VHF radio when transmit Hi pwr 5.0
Mikuni Heater running on Hi 3.8
Water pump, when pumping 2.0
Autohelm when motor is running 2.0
Mikuni Heater running on Low 1.9
Running (nav) lights 1.6
Galley downlights (x2) 1.6
Instruments and e7plotter 1.2
Each lamp in Aft Cabin 1.0
Each lamp in Fwd Cabin 1.0
VHF radio when transmit Low 1.0
Gas Valve when open 0.8
Galley strip light 0.7
CD Player/Radio 0.8
Anchor light 0.8
Inverter when charging phone 0.7
VHF radio on standby/receive 0.6
Instruments without e7 0.6
Inverter with nothing in it 0.4
Saloon o/hd double light 0.2
Saloon surrounding 4 lights 0.4
Deck light 0.4
Steaming light 0.3
Everything switched off 0.2


Since then I have changed boats (#366, still 1996 though!) and have just fitted a new fridge to it as well as having changed all lamps (interior and navigation etc) to LED

I have a 100W (nominal) solar panel fitted on the sliding hatch cover in front of the traveller. This is not the best position as it is often part -shaded and being flat is not the best angle to the sun so we never get anywhere near the theoretical peak current (100/12.4) of approx 8Amps but I can get 3.5-3.9amps if everything is perfect, more usually somewhere closer to 2Amps but the best thing is that theres always a trickle from dawn to dusk!

Like you I had 2 x 190 Ah batteries, wired as per the factory build. Like you I was concerned about over depletion and starting.

So the first thing I would say is look to reduce your usage rather than increase the capacity (LED’s etc). My new fridge draws only 3 Amps.

Whilst I like the idea of dedicated start battery, the reality is that a flat battery had been a fear rather than a reality. I decided that rather than go to the effort and expense of a dedicated start battery I would simply carry a small stand-alone starter pack (like these https://amzn.to/3ivBfIH <https://amzn.to/3ivBfIH>)

My current boat also had a battery monitor fitted by the previous owner. This doesn't show battery capacity but does show the current being drawn by (or charged back
into) the battery at any time.

Finally, as I only have the one solar panel, it is connected to Battery 1. I then have a voltage sensing relay that connects 1 to 2. So when 1 is charged up the current “spills over” into 2.

We keep our boat on a mooring buoy so unless we visit a marina it is never connected to shore power. The solar panel is great for when we are not onboard as we always start our trip with fully charged batteries.

There are now only two “events’ that will cause depletion of the batteries to a level where I think it is prudent to run the engine for a bit; 1) Extended sailing with the autohelm engaged (new boat has a below deck linear pilot, which I suspect id a bit more power hungry) or extended use of the fridge on warm and cloudy days. I only fitted the new fridge last week, so have yet to see how the more efficient unit holds up.

Obviously if you want to go the starter battery route thats a personal choice. I am merely pointing out that there are other options

Hope this helps

Graeme

[Jack Brennan]

Hi Sara:

An easier alternative, which I use on trips, is to buy a quality portable jump starter from an auto store and keep in one of the interior lockers so it’s not exposed to weather.

If you deplete the batteries, use the alligator clips to connect to the batteries. Your engine will start right up as long as you charge it at 110 volts periodically.

As for solar, I use a 160 watt Renogy panel that I have rigged behind the boom, using the backstays and a U-shaped brace made of one-inch SS tubing, rail fittings and two SS flagpole rail fittings that will take one-inch SS tubing.

The good thing is that I can remove the panel in 10 minutes, which is essential in hurricane land.

I can get 50 to 80 amps a day, depending on clouds and the time of year. After four days ay anchor, it needs the diesel alternator to top off the batteries because we like to play music and do other activities that run down the batteries.

Right now, in the Florida summer, I leave the fridge on all the time at dock and power it only with solar.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.



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[Danny Jensen]

Here is my videos on my solar. You may be able to connect to your shore charger output wires it you don’t use solar and shore charger at the same time. 200w runs the refer on most days with almost no engine charging. https://youtu.be/FJBYstYlIBI

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2020, at 9:08 PM, Sara Skinner Schroeder <sara...@comcast.net> wrote:
>

> My 2000 C20 has two 4D deep cycle batteries. I figure I have about 190amp hr capacity for each which if they are not discharged more than 50% I have about 80amp hrs each. She has never had a starter battery. After a weekend rafting with friends I did some analysis on my battery usage. It goes without saying that the refrigeration was the biggest draw. I got nervous that the batteries would not have enough CCA to start the engine so I turned off the refer the night before heading home. I did charge the batteries for a few hours on day 2 but was still not comfortable with how fast the batteries were being depleted. I have a few, somewhat unrelated questions, as I figure out what’s going to be added to the boat next.

[Danny Jensen]

I meant to send you this shorter video in my previous post. Here is my test setup of basic solar. https://youtu.be/1It6JXgNAxg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2020, at 9:08 PM, Sara Skinner Schroeder <sara...@comcast.net> wrote:
>

> My 2000 C20 has two 4D deep cycle batteries. I figure I have about 190amp hr capacity for each which if they are not discharged more than 50% I have about 80amp hrs each. She has never had a starter battery. After a weekend rafting with friends I did some analysis on my battery usage. It goes without saying that the refrigeration was the biggest draw. I got nervous that the batteries would not have enough CCA to start the engine so I turned off the refer the night before heading home. I did charge the batteries for a few hours on day 2 but was still not comfortable with how fast the batteries were being depleted. I have a few, somewhat unrelated questions, as I figure out what’s going to be added to the boat next.

[Joe Luciano]

Hi Sara,

Lots of good ideas shared in the previous posts. A couple of thoughts from a fellow sailor in the Pacific Northwest. Just need to recognize that the sun power in our area is nothing like that of someone who lives in Florida, for instance. While you can get some power on cloudy days, no where near what you get on sunny days. Just something to take into consideration in our area.

One thing that I have done to my boat is install a Balmar high output alternator with 3 stage voltage regulation. I find this to be one of the best moves I’ve made to keep batteries charged. Without this, the standard engine set up is an automotive style alternator that won’t fully charge deep cycle batteries very well with intermittent engine use. While island hopping in the San Juan’s I sail as often as I can, but I also recognize that there are times I have to motor and I want to take advantage of those times to charge my batteries. At about an hour of motoring, I can restore batteries to 90% typically. This allows me to spend 2-3 days at anchor easily without need for the sun to be out for charging batteries via solar.

In terms of the battery banks, I combined my two 4D banks and put them on the battery 2 terminal. This gives me a usable 200 Amp hours of house bank. I then installed a separate automotive type battery on bank #1 that is dedicated to engine starting only. Typically, I don’t have to use this battery, but it’s peace of mind for always being able to start the engine. The starting battery on my boat fits in the same area as the two 4D batteries under the starboard setee. The automotive battery fits just forward of the other two in a dedicated battery box. The other thing I installed was a Link battery monitor for the house bank that tells me my amp hour usage and current draw at any time. With this instrument, there is basically no excuse for not knowing your battery state of charge.

Anyway, these are the relatively simple things that work for me in our part of the world. They’ve been reliable for me for over 15 years. I have contemplated adding solar, but adding panels and wiring that I’ve considered is somewhat messy and I’ve not felt a need to really go that route given my cruising style.

Joe Luciano
Second Wind
#1024