[C320-list] Issues with ST4000+ Autopilot

[John Stetson via C320-list]

Our Raymarine ST4000+ Autopilot system is original, installed in 1999.
When activating the AUTO mode, the helm goes hard to port. We have
verified the Dealer settings and recalibrated, including successfully
turning the boat to swing the compass. Intermittently, the autopilot will
work correctly and then, unpredictably, initiate the same turn on its own.
We have confirmed that there are no ferrous metals within 0.8 m of the
fluxgate compass. Would appreciate any words of wisdom short of upgrading
to the Evolution EV-100 Wheel Sail Autopilot.


John Stetson
Morning Star...Again
Hull 578
1999

[Greg Arnold via C320-list]

Do you have a rudder position indicator?  If you do and it fails, you
could get behavior like this.

[John Stetson via C320-list]

Greg, thank you for the feedback. Yes, I do have a position indicator, but
it seems to be working as it should. I recalibrated it today.

John Stetson
Morning Star...Again
Hull 578
1999

[Dennis Cookson via C320-list]

John, check that the ST4000 controller is showing the correct position of the rudder at the bottom of the display, adjusting as you turn the wheel. If not, check the wiring from the rudder reference unit (position indicator) to the SmartPilot unit in the aft lazarette.

Your vessel was built at the same time as ours and we likely have the same system! I am currently relocating my rudder reference device as it was never installed properly and only worked in light winds.

Dennis Cookson
‘Catalina’ 0577

[John Stetson via C320-list]

Dennis,
Thanks for the input, particularly from your hull number! I have checked
the rudder position sensor and it seems to be working fine. In fact, the
whole system seems to be functioning as it should. I am thinking that the
intermittent nature of the issue is a wiring problem. Very frustrating to
not know when it is reliable and when it is not.

John Stetson
Morning Star...Again
Hull 578
1999

[Ferris Wills via C320-list]

John,

I see a similar behavior: when I first engage the ap, it will occasionally veer to port immediately. This happens maybe one in twenty engagements. Otherwise it works as expected. I simply disengage and reengage and that always works.

When I first bought Argo (#505) two years ago, the ap was not working - I disassembled the wheel mechanism, replaced the belt and cleaned everything . I also rewired the electrical leads to the motor as I found a bad connection there. Finished by recalibrating as per instructions in the manual.

The weird veering behavior is kinda recent, so I should probably check my motor connections again - that seems to be a weak point in the design. I don’t have a rudder sensor. Let me know if you get to the bottom of it!

Thx,
Ferris
Argo #505

Typos by iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2024, at 6:10 PM, John Stetson via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Dennis,

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

My experience is that the belt inside the wheel housing is faulty when that happens. You may be able to adjust it with the knob, but it's probably better to just get a new belt.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.


________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Ferris Wills via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:07 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Ferris Wills <ferrisw...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Issues with ST4000+ Autopilot

[Dennis Cookson via C320-list]

John, is this autopilot behaviour a recent thing or has it never worked reliably? If the rudder position is reported correctly and the flux compass is providing an accurate heading then I would suspect the ST4000 controller (display unit) itself, or the connections to it as you suggest.

Good luck with your detective work.

Dennis Cookson
'Catalina' 0577.

> On 17 Jul 2024, at 02:09, John Stetson via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Dennis,

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

I recently installed an RPS on the newer wheel pilot which doesn’t require
one but boy what a difference it makes. Anyone who has the newer pilot
but doesn’t have the RPS, I can confirm, you probably want one. It
doesn’t cure all the issues that come along with cheaping out and not
buying a linear drive but…it definitely helps a lot. Anyhow I digress.
When I was researching some of the 'odd' and ‘searching' behavior of the
autopilot without the RPS, I did stumble across several troubleshooting and
potential issues that can arise with even the older model RPS and fluxgate
compass. I don’t recall the exact test procedures (but you can
definitely google and or search on the Raymarine forum) but the interesting
piece of information is that both devices can develop dead spots that can
cause a bad reading. On the fluxgate compass a dead spot in one of the
windings could cause the compass to report a static heading. So the test
for this one is kinda simple I think. Just get your chartplotter to show
a heading line ( not course ) then execute a turn with the autopilot NOT
engaged. If the heading doesn’t change…you have a broken fluxgate.

For the RPS I think it is less likely a problem because as the autopilot is
going hard over I can’t think of how a dead spot would continue to be a
problem, the RPS would move to a good spot and report an accurate position
back to the computer and pilot head. It’s worth exploring however.
Again, look at your reported angle as you slowly turn the wheel through all
positions. If the position suddenly jumps around…problem.

Lastly there can be issues with drive motor polarity and loose connections
this seems like it could be an issue and I haven’t got a clue how to start
trouble shooting that other than to try cleaning the contacts to the motor
and maybe looking for obvious signs of wiring or the motor itself going
bad? Google might be your best friend here.

Anyhow, some of this seems like possible things to check out.

Good Luck!

Troy Dunn
Hull #514

[Gary Magnuson via C320-list]

In an effort to simply add my experience with my 1995 hull 205. The auto
pilot demonstrated it habbit of going to port at the most inopportune
times. I have found no logical reason, other than I have no rudder position
indicator on my boat. My maiden voyage was 677 mil3s from Whitehall
zmichigan to Bayfield Wisconsin in the spring of 2007. Being new to the
boat, I called it a " Crazy Ivan" from the movie The Hunt for the Red
October. I have never found the real problem, but suspected, perhaps,
something like the refrigerator, or some other electrical componant cycling
on or off. Still a mystery to me, but I have learned to just be ready for
it. If left alone in an open part of the lake it will come back on course,
so I don't use the AP when the course is critical. Anxious to hear of a
real fix someday.

Gary Magnuson
Time A Weigh
1995 # 205

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024, 9:08 PM Ferris Wills via C320-list <

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

I believe power is an issue.  I found that my autopilot would go Ivan on me if I kicked on my water supply pump while the autopilot was engaged. Your refrigerator might also do the same due to a power draw issue.
Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32
Holland, MI

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 12:23 PM, Gary Magnuson via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: In an effort to simply add my experience with my 1995 hull 205. The auto

[John Stetson via C320-list]

Thanks for all the great ideas. I will probably replace the belt and check
all the wires and terminations. I will report back with any findings.



John Stetson
Morning Star…Again #578