[C320-list] Winterization Plumbing on my C320

[Ken McCrimmon]

Good Afternoon
I am looking to learn from somebody who does their own winterization of the plumbing systems on their C320.
My home is north of Toronto and my boat is in Midland.

I would be interested in helping somebody who would not mind me learning from them.

Willing to do the heavy lifting

Ken

[KEN GEIGER]

Hi Ken, just finished doing mine over at Hindson Marine in Penatang.  I have a procedure that I am in the process of updating.  I use a small wet/dry vacuum and some anti freeze but others have found ways to use air pressure either from your mouth or a compressor and little or no anti freeze.  This is probably a better way.

If you google "winterizing a Catalina 320" you will find some articles on our sight and others. 

I will send you my last years procedure but the update coming s??? is and improvement.
Regards
Ken GeigerNorthern Dream 2000 #765

[Ken McCrimmon]

Thanks Ken. I have read a number of articles on winterization. I am a kinesthetic learner, I learn best by doing. Reading and watching only carry me so far

I am having the marina do this year, so i am really trying to get ready for next year.

Ken
________________________________
From: KEN GEIGER <ken...@aol.com>
Sent: October 12, 2021 5:37 PM
To: kenmcc...@hotmail.com <kenmcc...@hotmail.com>; C320...@Catalina320.com <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Winterization Plumbing on my C320

[Guy Smith]

Hello All!
I'm in the process of getting insurance for a new boat and I was talking to
the insurance company. I asked about the Ice and Freeze coverage (this was
BoatUS/GEICO) and the agent warned me that you have to get a professional
to do the winterizing if you expect to make a freeze damage claim. I
usually do my own winterizing, and have had no problems, so paying for that
protection seems like a waste of money if you winterize yourself...
BTW Pleiades is up for sale! My wife and I have entered an agreement of
sale on Renegade, a 2017 C445... There goes our retirement savings! :) It's
been a dream of ours to trade up and this is the time for it.

I'm going to stay subscribed to the C320 list because of all the great
info, not necessarily related to C320s only.

Best to all!
~g

Guy & Liz Smith
sv Pleiades
'97 Catalina C320 #452
Worton Creek, MD USA

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 5:21 PM Ken McCrimmon <kenmcc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Michael Leschisin]

Hey Ken,

I just did mine this past weekend. I kind of do a hybrid using the shop vac to get all of the water out, then run a couple of gallons of -75 Splash antifreeze (contains no alcohol) to make sure I catch any possible water pockets. I shop-vac the antifreeze out so I don’t have to deal with the taste and the mess in the springtime. My boat is in the UP of Michigan so I’m guessing our winter temps are about the same. I have a water heater bypass installed; not sure if you do as well but that saves about 6 gallons of antifreeze, you can do it pretty easily either way.

If you have an email address I can send a PDF to, I have a check list I work from each year that I’ll forward. (I know we can’t do attachments on the forum.)



____________________________________________________

Michael Leschisin

mlesc...@imagestudios.com

Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee MI
#995

[Troy Dunn]

Ken

Checkout this article.

https://c320.org/article.php/mainsheet2007Q3


The plumbing is truly a piece of cake if you follow those instructions.
Be sure to check in your area on how much freeze protection you need (I.e.
which antifreeze product to use)

If you can’t find a buddy, you should still be fine. Finding a buddy is
even better obviously.

Troy Dunn
Hull #514

[Kim Chapman]

I use a shop vac to suck all the water out. You could use the "output"
air of the shop vac but these devices suck much better than they blow.

The best place to connect the shop vac to the plumbing is at the pump.
Disconnect both the in and out lines from the pump. Using duct tape,
connect the shop vac to the input line. Turn on the shop vac. You will
be sucking water from the water-tank lines. It is best to do one at a
time so use the valves appropriately. When both tanks are done connect
the shop vac to the lines going to the galley, head, and cockpit
shower. Turn on the shop vac. Again, best to do one line at a time. Go
to each faucet, open the cold water first. You will know when all of
the water is sucked out of the line by listening to the air being drawn
into the faucet. If you hear some gurgling then there is still water in
the line. When you hear a clean whoosh of air then that line is done.
Turn off the cold water and open the hot. Continue till all lines are
done.

Using this method I have never put anti-freeze in my plumbing !

Cheers....

Kim Chapman
C320 #416
No Problem
C400 #249
Quiescence

[KEN GEIGER]

Ken M.  Well it will be interesting to see what the Marina does.  I'm thinking loads of anti freeze, they sell it.  With covid they probably will not let you observe.With so many systems to deal with, somehow make sure they do all.  Get a report.  Or give them a schedule to check off and initial.   Every spring I see at least one hot water tank in the scrap at our marina.

Regards
Ken Geiger Northern Dream 2000 #765

Sent from the all-new AOL app for Android

On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 17:58, Ken McCrimmon<kenmcc...@hotmail.com> wrote: #yiv9601695765 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Thanks Ken.  I have read a number of articles on winterization.  I am akinesthetic learner, I learn best by doing.  Reading and watching only carry me so far

I am having the marina do this year, so i am really trying to get ready for next year.

KenFrom: KEN GEIGER <ken...@aol.com>

Sent: October 12, 2021 5:37 PM
To: kenmcc...@hotmail.com <kenmcc...@hotmail.com>; C320...@Catalina320.com <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Winterization Plumbing on my C320 Hi Ken, just finished doing mine over at Hindson Marine in Penatang.  I have a procedure that I am in the process of updating.  I use a small wet/dry vacuum and some anti freeze but others have found ways to use air pressure either from your mouth or a compressor and little or no anti freeze.  This is probably a better way.

If you google "winterizing a Catalina 320" you will find some articles on our sight and others. 

I will send you my last years procedure but the update coming s??? is and improvement.
Regards

Ken GeigerNorthern Dream 2000 #765

[Angus Henderson]

Hi Ken. My boat is also in Midland at Wye Marina. I am all winterized now so can’t be much help as a physical mentor but do much the same as Kim described. Avoiding plumbing a/f in the system such helps the water taste in the spring. I would only add to make sure you void water from the pump casing itself as it will freeze and crack it. Where is your boat in Midland.
Gus

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 6:09 PM, Kim Chapman <kim.c...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>  I use a shop vac to suck all the water out. You could use the "output"

[Harry Juris]

I switched from Boats to Chubb for just that reason. The price was
comparable to Boats but careful comparison showed the coverage was actually
better. By the way they did not require me to get a new survey.

Harry Juris
Polar Star
1998 C320 #541

[ha...@citron-too.com]

My last should say Boat US. I need a new battery in my wireless keyboard/

From: Harry Juris <ha...@citron-too.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 8:36 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Winterization Plumbing on my C320

I switched from Boats to Chubb for just that reason. The price was comparable to Boats but careful comparison showed the coverage was actually better. By the way they did not require me to get a new survey.



Harry Juris

Polar Star

1998 C320 #541





On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 6:02 PM Guy Smith <guycla...@gmail.com <mailto:guycla...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hello All!
I'm in the process of getting insurance for a new boat and I was talking to
the insurance company. I asked about the Ice and Freeze coverage (this was
BoatUS/GEICO) and the agent warned me that you have to get a professional
to do the winterizing if you expect to make a freeze damage claim. I
usually do my own winterizing, and have had no problems, so paying for that
protection seems like a waste of money if you winterize yourself...
BTW Pleiades is up for sale! My wife and I have entered an agreement of
sale on Renegade, a 2017 C445... There goes our retirement savings! :) It's
been a dream of ours to trade up and this is the time for it.

I'm going to stay subscribed to the C320 list because of all the great
info, not necessarily related to C320s only.

Best to all!
~g

Guy & Liz Smith
sv Pleiades
'97 Catalina C320 #452
Worton Creek, MD USA

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 5:21 PM Ken McCrimmon <kenmcc...@hotmail.com <mailto:kenmcc...@hotmail.com> >

[Joe M]

I do the opposite of many here.

I buy 20 gallons of rv antifreeze a year at about $3 per gallon. I pump out
the cold side of both tanks, drain the hot side. Then the first few gallons
tries to charge the hot water tank, running a few gallons into each tank,
run all faucets hot and then cold putting out the pink , then drain the hot
water heater again draining the pink, taking no chances. Easy enough to
flush out in spring and flushing through a shot glass of bleach and water
anyway, system is always fresh.

I also have a bucket to put in cockpit with valve, running that to raw
water pump, running a couple buckets of freshwater running the engine on
the hard, then running 5 gallons of rv a/f through engine.

The last couple gallons of a/f gets dumped in the toilet and pumped into
holding tank with a bottle of the usual holding tank treatment.

2002 C320 #902

[Troy Dunn]

Using RV antifreeze (the cheap $3 PG/Alcohol mix) in your water supply
plumbing is probably fine, although most shops would not recommend it.
Not sure why. Using this RV antifreeze in your engine is a bad idea. For
the engine buy PG only AF mixes. If the label says the antifreeze is
combustible it has alcohol in it which can damage seals and is actually
corrosive for some parts of the engine.

FWIW

Troy

[Joe M]

The rv a/f actually has corrosion inhibitor in it.

I wouldn’t dream of winterizing my engine without running it through the
raw water side of the cooling system, exhaust & muffler. It can be
difficult to get all the water out just by draining seacocks. You never
know if you have a crud trap out of reach of just shoving a piece of wire
in it.

When everything is done, I then run both bilge pumps to pickle that system
all the way out.

35 years and counting for every boat I ever owned. I have met so many
people that had freezing/bursting/cracks from not pickling their boats.
Lots of work and lots of money.

Whatever works for us either way, as long as all the water is out.

Joe. 2002 C320 #902

[Michael Leschisin]

A couple of things I consider on the winterizing topic when doing my boat.

The term antifreeze is really a misnomer. Most of the -50 PG antifreeze on the market begins to slush and eventually freeze solid at around +20 to +12 degrees. It gets its burst protection from the fact that water expands by about 10% when it freezes and most of the -50 products expand at around 3% as they start to freeze. The -50 rating is the temperature at which the product expands enough to burst a copper pipe; plastic pipes like the ones on our boats, much less. Starbrite’s web site rates their Wintertech -50 for burst protection of PVC pipes to -10 if undiluted. I take that to mean plastic pumps, PVC connectors and Pex pipes would fall in the same realm. Living where I do, January lows can hover around -25 for a week or two at a time so I use a Shop-vac to get the water out, run a quality antifreeze through the system and then suck that out. Anything left has room for expansion.

Alcohol is know to do a number on rubber seals and o-rings. For the twenty minutes the antifreeze is in my water system it probably wouldn’t make a big difference, but there still is residual solution sitting on the pump heads, whale fittings, and other parts over the course of the winter.
Would I find a melted pump under the vanity next spring? Probably not. Would I be shortening the life of my pumps? Maybe? With a water heater by-pass it costs me about an additional $6 to run non-alcohol based antifreeze verses the cheep stuff, so my philosophy is "antifreeze is cheap, Boat parts aren’t”. I definitely would not consider using anything with alcohol in the head where a weak Joker Valve can lead to a wonderland of aromatherapy. I was a bit shocked the first year I winterized to find -75 antifreeze frozen solid in the head at about +5 degrees. I have since gone to using -100 that won’t freeze until -40. I run the same Starbrite -100 through the engine raw water system and use a refractometer to test the last bit, spit out the exhaust, so I know I’m good down to -70 or better. (Nothing like peace of mind during those cold snaps) You can get them relatively cheap on Amazon- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3AY7Q3/ref=emc_b_5_i <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3AY7Q3/ref=emc_b_5_i> and I’m sure there’s a reason you can pay over $100 for one, but I’m just looking for a ballpark figure and not a scientific number on the coolant. I also use it to test the closed coolant system. By running the -100 though I’ve protected my impeller housing, heat exchanger and muffler, but I know awful lot of sailors who overlook testing the closed system that could lead to a cracked engine block.



____________________________________________________

Michael Leschisin
mlesc...@imagestudios.com <mailto:mlesc...@imagestudios.com>

Wild Blue Yonder
Menominee, MI

#995





> On Oct 12, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Ken McCrimmon <kenmcc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

[Allan Field]

Hi Troy - Practical Sailor did an article in 2014, evaluating different
antifreezes. Bottom Line: No alcohol or ethanol mixes anywhere, as you
note; Propylene Glycol (PG) for potable water systems and not for use in
heads; Ethylene Glycol (EG) for use in the head and engine, not for use in
potable water systems. Vodka - not recommended!

Allan S. Field
*Sea Shadow* - C387, #103 (formerly C320 #808)
Columbia, MD

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 11:39 PM Troy Dunn <troutw...@gmail.com> wrote: