[C320-list] Bleeding calorifier for cooling?

[Graeme Clark]

This will be first year I am attempting to re-commission and de-winterise my engine
I have fitted a new pump impeller and refitted the fan belts but was wondering whether there will potentially be an airlock in the heating system, especially the loop that goes to the calorifier
There are a lot of valves and faucets on the calorifier which I have never previously touched!
Do I need to bleed anything and if so, how?
Thanks
Graeme
#366, 1996


Sent from mobile: please excuse typos etc.!

[Timothy Woods]

Graeme,

I have a 1996 320 also with the same problem. I replaced my ignition and
tachometer and blew the engine fuse. I pulled the panel back out but never
found a short. It just stopped shorting after moving the wires. If you find
something, would you please report back.

Thanks, Tim

[Warren Updike]

"calorifier" huh? Oh, you mean the water heater. I had to look that one up.

It's possible to get an air lock in the hoses to the calorifier. You can tell because you won't have hot water after running the engine. There are a couple of techniques people use to clear the airlock. What I have done that seemed to work is to 1) remove the filler cap on the heat exchanger and if very full remove a small amount of antifreeze, 2)remove the highest hose to the calorifier at the engine, insert a funnel into the hose, hold funnel and hose as high above the engine as possible, and pour in antifreeze slooowly. This may force any air out of the hose and into the engine. You may even notice the level in the heat exchanger rise. Hope this helps. If not, try another technique.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

[jim brown]

Graeme,
Warren's advice is a tried and true method for bleeding air from the engine cooling system (both in older cars and boats).

However, if you are asking if changing the impeller and introducing air into the fresh water cooling circuit can cause an air lock in the heater circuit I don't think that's possible. The fresh water circuit feeds water through the impeller pump, heat exchanger, and out through the muffler and exhaust and is entirely separate from the engine cooling system with the antifreeze. It is isolated from the engine block and head cooling system in the heat exchanger. So any air lock in the fresh water system would cause the engine to overheat and you'd get plenty of hot water and no exhaust burble.  It would be unlikely that you could have an air lock in the fresh water circuit by changing the impeller since it is a straight through circuit to the outside with no pressure. The pump plus 11,000 pounds of displacement would almost certainly push that water up and out.

The valves and faucets on the water are to relieve pressure, drain the tank, prevent backflow, etc. You certainly can get an airlock in this house water system separate since sometimes (don't know why) the pump is not always "self priming".

You normally don't drain the engine coolant for winterization but if it was drained to change it out when spring commissioning then see Warren's email. You will have an airlock in the circuit to the water heater unless you do. Been there.

If I'm not understanding your original question I apologize.

Jim Brown
# 973  Yannar 3gm

[Bruce Hunter]

I changed from green to red coolant 2 years ago in which I flushed the engine 8 or 9 times (yes, I'm excessive) I did what Warren Updike suggests, worked every time! There still might be some small air pockets but not enough to hurt anything, just watch your temp gauge and top off the puke jug of needed.
Bruce HunterNauti Time #719 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Warren Updike<wup...@hotmail.com> wrote: "calorifier" huh? Oh, you mean the water heater. I had to look that one up.

[Onat Dogruer]

In addition to Warren's suggestion, similarly, I ran the engine with the cap off. Once the thermostat opens (when engine warms up to about 160), the antifreeze will start circulating in the engine and the water heater. This process will prevent any airlock; you can then top off if you need to.  Also, at a Yanmar course I took, the instructed recommended putting valves on the hoses going to the water heater so that one can isolate the loop if there is a problem. Hope this helps.

Can't wait to unshrink!Cheers,Onat
#546, 1998

From: Warren Updike <wup...@hotmail.com>
To: "C320...@Catalina320.com" <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:46 PM

[Warren Updike]

As to your point about the engine coolant pump, the reason air locks can occur in the coolant system is that there are two paths in this system: one loop of hose goes through the heat exchanger, the other loop through the calorifier (water heater to we Yanks.) Therefore, an air block is sufficient to stop the flow through one while the flow can continue in the other.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay



-----Original Message-----
From: jim brown [mailto:jbrow...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 5:51 PM
To: C320...@Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bleeding calorifier for cooling?

Graeme,

Warren's advice is a tried and true method for bleeding air from the engine cooling system (both in older cars and boats).



However, if you are asking if changing the impeller and introducing air into the fresh water cooling circuit can cause an air lock in the heater circuit I don't think that's possible. The fresh water circuit feeds water through the impeller pump, heat exchanger, and out through the muffler and exhaust and is entirely separate from the engine cooling system with the antifreeze. It is isolated from the engine block and head cooling system in the heat exchanger. So any air lock in the fresh water system would cause the engine to overheat and you'd get plenty of hot water and no exhaust burble. It would be unlikely that you could have an air lock in the fresh water circuit by changing the impeller since it is a straight through circuit to the outside with no pressure. The pump plus 11,000 pounds of displacement would almost certainly push that water up and out.



The valves and faucets on the water are to relieve pressure, drain the tank, prevent backflow, etc. You certainly can get an airlock in this house water system separate since sometimes (don't know why) the pump is not always "self priming".



You normally don't drain the engine coolant for winterization but if it was drained to change it out when spring commissioning then see Warren's email. You will have an airlock in the circuit to the water heater unless you do. Been there.



If I'm not understanding your original question I apologize.



Jim Brown

# 973 Yannar 3gm

From: Warren Updike <wup...@hotmail.com<mailto:wup...@hotmail.com>>

To: "C320...@Catalina320.com<mailto:C320...@Catalina320.com>" <C320...@Catalina320.com<mailto:C320...@Catalina320.com>>

[Michael McCretton]

Hi Graeme

I am not sure if this helps as I have a Westerbeke engine but I replaced
my hoses a couple of years ago and had the same problem. The answer was
to open a bleed valve which is postioned at the highest point of the
engines hot water circuit for the calorifier.the. I have attached a
photo which shows where it is on my engine. I recollect that you have a
Yanmar engine. Hopefully they have something similar.

It was not very effective until I ran the engine and I had to open it
very gently because of the pressure.

Regards

Michael

[Michael McCretton]

Hi Graeme

I am not sure if this helps as I have a Westerbeke engine but I replaced
my hoses a couple of years ago and had the same problem. The answer was
to open a bleed valve which is postioned at the highest point of the

engines hot water circuit for the calorifier. I have attached a photo

which shows where it is on my engine. I recollect that you have a Yanmar
engine. Hopefully they have something similar.

It was not very effective until I ran the engine and I had to open it
very gently because of the pressure.

Regards

Michael

Michael McCretton Silvan II #302 1994

On 18/03/2017 14:08, Graeme Clark wrote:

[Larry Frank]

Michael,

I have the Westerbeke too. The attachment did not come through at least
on the message I received. Could you please send it directly to my email
address which is larry...@stx.rr.com? I think this could be very
helpful next time I change the antifreeze.

In the past I have used a small electric pump to circulate antifreeze
solution through the water heater loop by attaching the pump discharge to
the supply to the heater that is located at the engine and routing the
return from the water heater into a bucket. The pump is submerged in the
antifreeze solution in the bucket. Once the water heater loop is full I
quickly reconnect the hoses to the engine taking care to spill as little
as possible. This process works well but has the potential to become a
disaster quickly if one loses control of the various hoses and sprays
antifreeze solution where it does not belong.

Your process sounds much better.

Larry
WindSwept C320 #246

On 3/21/17, 4:57 AM, "Michael McCretton" <michaelm...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Graeme Clark]

Thanks all for the help and suggestions; sorry about the unusual terminology - I think it helps us instantly distinguish whether someone is talking about the hot water being heated by engine hot water, or being heated by an electric element! But I had never heard the term either until I started sailing in the UK!

I’ll double check everything when next on the boat

Thanks

Graeme

———————————————————
I work irregular hours and often write emails late in the evening and at weekends; that doesn’t mean I expect you to do the same; reply when convenient!

[pat reynolds]

I have a 1994 westerbeke 30B engine which is self bleeding.  Are we talking about some other system to the water heater as I have also replaced that with no problem