[C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

However, my real questions start with what I’m still chasing. I seem to have a fresh water coming in during storms. It’s been about three months that it’s been on the hard so the accumulation of about 2 to 3 gallons is a bit concerning. I think I’ve traced a leak down to at least one window. ( the one in the cockpit starboard side facing aft). However that can’t be the only source. Anyone have any ideas to start tracing? I’m wondering if the lockers are leaking to the bilge. Any thoughts to begin the hunt would be appreciated.

VR
Jacob

[Email Service via C320-list]

Sleep on it in the rain
Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 7:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

[Greg Flanagan via C320-list]

Please include your hull number in all correspondence.
Thanks,

Greg Flanagan
Hoop Dancer # 1076
Sidney, BC

at 5:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

Apologies,

Jacob
STUDY HULL # 305
Kent island MD

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 20:49, Greg Flanagan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Please include your hull number in all correspondence.

[Chris Burti via C320-list]

Stanchions are a common source for hidden leaks.

Fair winds,
Chris Burti
Farmville, NC
Former C-320 #867

[Ferris Wills via C320-list]

Hi,

On Argo (#505), I’ve found and repaired fresh water leaks in the following places:
Front and main cabin hatches (bedding, seals and dogs!)
All four main cabin ports (seals and dogs)
Head hatch (dogs only)
Both water tank seals
Emergency tiller seal
Transom shower (this one was tricky to find)
Pedestal guard feet
Hot water heater
Being on the boat in a real pour is essential! I’m happy to report that this winter (despite lots of rain), my boat has stayed dry!

Hope this helps,

Ferris Wills

Typos by iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 5:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

[Allan Field via C320-list]

Jacob - I have never tried this strategy but others have told me that it
often works. What you do is replace the vertical part of the main hatch
with a piece of plywood and shut the horizontal part of the main hatch. Cut
a hole into the plywood just large enough to accept the working end of a
leaf blower. Push the working end through the hole, seal around the hole
with something like duct tape. With the leaf blower in the cockpit,
pressurize the interior of the boat with the blower. Have a bucket of soapy
water and pour that water over different fittings to see if you get air
bubbles (something like a paint brush may work better than pouring?). Air
bubbles = source of a leak. What I don't know is how long it would take to
pressurize the boat sufficiently to make this work. And the underside of
the fittings inside the boat would need to be open to the pressurization.

Leaks can be just awful to find. As I am sure you know, the leak can be at
the stem and the water runs to the stern before you see it! Hope this
helps!

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - C387, #103 (formerly C320, #808)
Columbia, MD

[Allan Field via C320-list]

Jacob - I have never tried this strategy but others have told me that it

often works for finding boat leaks. What you would do is replace the

vertical part of the main hatch with a piece of plywood and shut the

horizontal part of the main hatch. With something like duct or preservation
tape, seal the hatch to prevent air from getting in or out. Cut a hole into

the plywood just large enough to accept the working end of a leaf blower.
Push the working end through the hole, seal around the hole with something
like duct tape. With the leaf blower in the cockpit, pressurize the
interior of the boat with the blower. Have a bucket of soapy water and pour

that water over different fittings, portlights, hatches, etc. to see if you

get air bubbles (something like a paint brush may work better than
pouring?). Air bubbles = source of a leak. What I don't know is how long it
would take to pressurize the boat sufficiently to make this work. And the
underside of the fittings inside the boat would need to be open to the
pressurization.

Leaks can be just awful to find. As I am sure you know, the leak can be at
the stem and the water runs to the stern before you see it! Hope this
helps!

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - C387, #103 (formerly C320, #808)
Columbia, MD


On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:27 PM Jacob Lang via C320-list <
c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

Boats leak. That’s just a fact. A couple of gallons over a couple of months is not much.

That said, the possibilities are endless. Pinholes in the hatch caulking. A poorly closed port. Stanchions. The genoa tracks. The access hatch on the cockpit floor for the emergency tiller. A water line. A drain leak. The water heater. You can drive yourself crazy.

Staying on the boat in a storm is a good idea. You can also mark up the bilge with chalk or place paper towels in various locations around the bilge. You want to follow the trail of the fresh water. That narrows down where the water originates.

On my 1998 320, water from the center aft will pool around the stuffing box before draining through a hose into the main bilge. Starboard aft and midship will drain into the bilge from near the head. Port side will flow under the galley and into the bilge.

Anything forward will be detected at the removable hatch on the floor near the V berth.

Any leaks from hatches, ports, genoa tracks, etc., will be immediately obvious when it is raining. You can also use a hose on a nice day.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

If the seal fails, the mast base can leak. I know some folks tape the
base over the winter while hauled out. Probably not a bad tactic.

Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot. If they
don’t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
dogs, the seals, etc.

Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
clean out. These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge
and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners….it would be very
difficult to spot.

Good luck. Leaks can be a real bear to track down,

Troy Dunn
Hull#514

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

Thank you for all the info, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just some common areas to look. Tomorrow in MD we are suppose to have rain all day, so I’ll be on the hunt.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:42, Jack Brennan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Boats leak. That’s just a fact. A couple of gallons over a couple of months is not much.

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

When you say hatch, does this include the lockers? I don’t think I have any seals there.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:52, Troy Dunn via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> If the seal fails, the mast base can leak. I know some folks tape the

[Greg Arnold via C320-list]

On my boat water came down the inside of the mast. There was no drain
hole at the base of the mast, so the water level rose inside the mast. 
There is a tube inside the mast that the wires feed into.  Once the
water level rose to the top of the tube, water went into the tube and
ran down the wires into the bilge.

Solution was to drill a drain hole.  Why they didn't do this at the
factory is a mystery.

2005 #1054
So Cal

[Stephen Cox via C320-list]

You would need to block the two engine room vents on the transom to make
this idea work well.

Stephen Cox
Tegwen #1141
----------------------------------------

23 Mar 2024 12:26:19 Allan Field via C320-list
<c320...@lists.catalina320.com>:

[Joe Grande via C320-list]

Jacob, if you are in the cockpit facing aft, the "starboard" hatch is on your LEFT! There is no right & left o your boat; only starboard and port, regardless of where you are facing.
What's more relevant, does your bilge pump work?

Joe Grande
Whisper, #772
Lake Union, Seattle

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 6:54:17 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>; c320...@lists.catalina320.com <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

[Dan Winsor via C320-list]

Any decent boat inspection should include use of a moisture meter. This
device will find leaking deck fittings easier than most.
Use caution if you try the leaf blower strategy. Remember it's PSI and
there are a lot of square inches inside the cabin. A little pressure can
yield a lot of force.
Hatches and ports have been my primary sources. Butyl tape for re-bedding
and judicious use of 5200 at the mid frame seal on the ports sealed the
deal, pun intended.
Dan Winsor
Lucky Devil #109

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

Hatches are the flat lensed openings on the deck of the boat.

The cockpit lockers all have very deep lips that I doubt would be a source
of leaks. I wash the cockpit out with hoses and buckets all the time and
water doesn’t get into the cockpit lockers.

Do you notice any difference when your canvas is on during summer? Also
is your helm covered?

Troy

[Scott Westwood via C320-list]

I also agree with the dry paper towel method.  Place them anywhere you might think you have a leak.  I have also had leaks at the main cabin portals (Still trying to solve a stubborn one of those with new gasket and o-rings).  Main cabin hatch (Now solved with new gasket and smoked plastic that was cracked). Emergency tiller cover (Solved with bytle ). Pedestal (Pedestal currently removed and off getting re-coated) let you know on that one.  Had a slow leak in the aft cabin slow dripping down aft cabin back wall.  I also placed paper towels in Port aft locker just front of the rudder trunk before it goes under the aft cabin.  That covers the whole backside.  Also agree try being inside in a good solid rain.  Good luck.




Thanks,




Scott Westwood scottw...@bellsouth.net C (919)- 819-9794


On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 10:15:05 PM EDT, c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Jack Brennan)
  2. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Troy Dunn)
  3. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Troy Dunn)
  4. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Jacob Lang)
  5. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Jacob Lang)
  6. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Jacob Lang)
  7. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Greg Arnold)
  8. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Greg Arnold)
  9. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Stephen Cox)
  10. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Joe Grande)
  11. Re: Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo (Joe Grande)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 01:33:00 +0000
From: Jack Brennan <jackbre...@outlook.com>
To: "C320...@Catalina320.com" <C320...@Catalina320.com>

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID:
    <SN6PR11MB29732E4C7B...@SN6PR11MB2973.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Boats leak. That?s just a fact. A couple of gallons over a couple of months is not much.

That said, the possibilities are endless. Pinholes in the hatch caulking. A poorly closed port. Stanchions. The genoa tracks. The access hatch on the cockpit floor for the emergency tiller. A water line. A drain leak. The water heater. You can drive yourself crazy.

Staying on the boat in a storm is a good idea. You can also mark up the bilge with chalk or place paper towels in various locations around the bilge. You want to follow the trail of the fresh water. That narrows down where the water originates.

On my 1998 320, water from the center aft will pool around the stuffing box before draining through a hose into the main bilge. Starboard aft and midship will drain into the bilge from near the head. Port side will flow under the galley and into the bilge.

Anything forward will be detected at the removable hatch on the floor near the V berth.

Any leaks from hatches, ports, genoa tracks, etc.,  will be immediately obvious when it is raining. You can also use a hose on a nice day.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:49:47 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutw...@gmail.com>
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Cc: Allan Field <allanf...@gmail.com>,

    c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID:
    <CA+rGV8biD_8b1NQ7LR8_NnCY...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the
base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.

Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
dogs, the seals, etc.

Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

difficult to spot.

Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,

Troy Dunn
Hull#514

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:49:47 -0400
From: Troy Dunn <troutw...@gmail.com>
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Cc: Allan Field <allanf...@gmail.com>,

    c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID:
    <CA+rGV8biD_8b1NQ7LR8_NnCY...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the
base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.

Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
dogs, the seals, etc.

Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

difficult to spot.

Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,

Troy Dunn
Hull#514

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:52:54 -0400
From: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>
To: C320...@catalina320.com

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <4A8D075A-9E3A-4259...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Thank you for all the info, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just some common areas to look. Tomorrow in MD we are suppose to have rain all day, so I?ll be on the hunt.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:42, Jack Brennan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>

> ?Boats leak. That?s just a fact. A couple of gallons over a couple of months is not much.

>
> That said, the possibilities are endless. Pinholes in the hatch caulking. A poorly closed port. Stanchions. The genoa tracks. The access hatch on the cockpit floor for the emergency tiller. A water line. A drain leak. The water heater. You can drive yourself crazy.
>
> Staying on the boat in a storm is a good idea. You can also mark up the bilge with chalk or place paper towels in various locations around the bilge. You want to follow the trail of the fresh water. That narrows down where the water originates.
>
> On my 1998 320, water from the center aft will pool around the stuffing box before draining through a hose into the main bilge. Starboard aft and midship will drain into the bilge from near the head. Port side will flow under the galley and into the bilge.
>
> Anything forward will be detected at the removable hatch on the floor near the V berth.
>
> Any leaks from hatches, ports, genoa tracks, etc.,  will be immediately obvious when it is raining. You can also use a hose on a nice day.
>
> Jack Brennan
> Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:54:17 -0400
From: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Cc: Troy Dunn <troutw...@gmail.com>,

    c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <AB013422-E141-4B63...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

When you say hatch, does this include the lockers? I don?t think I have any seals there.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:52, Troy Dunn via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>

> ?If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the

> base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.
>
> Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

> don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

>
> Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
> dogs, the seals, etc.
>
> Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
> clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
> a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

> and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

> difficult to spot.
>
> Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,
>
> Troy Dunn
> Hull#514

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 21:54:17 -0400
From: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Cc: Troy Dunn <troutw...@gmail.com>,

    c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <AB013422-E141-4B63...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

When you say hatch, does this include the lockers? I don?t think I have any seals there.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:52, Troy Dunn via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>

> ?If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the

> base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.
>
> Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

> don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

>
> Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
> dogs, the seals, etc.
>
> Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
> clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
> a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

> and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

> difficult to spot.
>
> Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,
>
> Troy Dunn
> Hull#514

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:01:01 -0700
From: Greg Arnold <greg-...@gmx.com>
To: C320...@Catalina320.com, c320...@lists.catalina320.com

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <4f25c26f-d659-43db...@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On my boat water came down the inside of the mast. There was no drain

hole at the base of the mast, so the water level rose inside the mast.?
There is a tube inside the mast that the wires feed into.? Once the

water level rose to the top of the tube, water went into the tube and
ran down the wires into the bilge.

Solution was to drill a drain hole.? Why they didn't do this at the

factory is a mystery.

2005 #1054
So Cal

On 3/22/2024 5:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list wrote:
> I may regret starting this thread but I?m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I?m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I?m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.
>
> However, my real questions start with what I?m still chasing. I seem to have a fresh water coming in during storms. It?s been about three months that it?s been on the hard so the accumulation of about 2 to 3 gallons is a bit concerning. I think I?ve traced a leak down to at least one window. ( the one in the cockpit starboard side facing aft). However that can?t be the only source. Anyone have any ideas to start tracing? I?m wondering if the lockers are leaking to the bilge. Any thoughts to begin the hunt would be appreciated.
>
> VR
> Jacob


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:01:01 -0700
From: Greg Arnold <greg-...@gmx.com>
To: C320...@Catalina320.com, c320...@lists.catalina320.com

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <4f25c26f-d659-43db...@gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On my boat water came down the inside of the mast. There was no drain

hole at the base of the mast, so the water level rose inside the mast.?
There is a tube inside the mast that the wires feed into.? Once the

water level rose to the top of the tube, water went into the tube and
ran down the wires into the bilge.

Solution was to drill a drain hole.? Why they didn't do this at the

factory is a mystery.

2005 #1054
So Cal

On 3/22/2024 5:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list wrote:
> I may regret starting this thread but I?m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I?m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I?m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.
>
> However, my real questions start with what I?m still chasing. I seem to have a fresh water coming in during storms. It?s been about three months that it?s been on the hard so the accumulation of about 2 to 3 gallons is a bit concerning. I think I?ve traced a leak down to at least one window. ( the one in the cockpit starboard side facing aft). However that can?t be the only source. Anyone have any ideas to start tracing? I?m wondering if the lockers are leaking to the bilge. Any thoughts to begin the hunt would be appreciated.
>
> VR
> Jacob


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 13:03:07 +1100 (GMT+11:00)
From: Stephen Cox <sc...@timmin.com>
To: C320...@Catalina320.com

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID: <c039d63f-9f93-488c...@timmin.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:27?PM Jacob Lang via C320-list <
> c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
>> I may regret starting this thread but I?m curious. While my boat is in

>> the
>> water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out
>> on the

>> hard now and I?m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel
>> using gflex and then additionally I?m resealing the washers around the
>> keel
>> bolts.
>>
>> However, my real questions start with what I?m still chasing. I seem
>> to
>> have a fresh water coming in during storms. It?s been about three
>> months
>> that it?s been on the hard so the accumulation of about 2 to 3 gallons
>> is a
>> bit concerning. I think I?ve traced a leak down to at least one
>> window. (
>> the one in the cockpit starboard side facing aft). However that can?t
>> be
>> the only source. Anyone have any ideas to start tracing? I?m wondering

>> if
>> the lockers are leaking to the bilge. Any thoughts to begin the hunt
>> would
>> be appreciated.
>>
>> VR
>> Jacob

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 02:06:36 +0000
From: Joe Grande <joe_g...@msn.com>
To: "C320...@catalina320.com" <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>, "c320...@lists.catalina320.com"

    <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID:
    <BL1PR11MB59782C7543...@BL1PR11MB5978.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jacob, if you are in the cockpit facing aft, the "starboard" hatch is on your LEFT! There is no right & left o  your boat; only starboard and port, regardless of where you are facing.
What's more relevant, does your bilge pump work?

Joe Grande
Whisper, #772
Lake Union, Seattle

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 6:54:17 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>; c320...@lists.catalina320.com <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

When you say hatch, does this include the lockers? I don?t think I have any seals there.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:52, Troy Dunn via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>

> ?If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the

> base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.
>
> Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

> don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

>
> Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
> dogs, the seals, etc.
>
> Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
> clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
> a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

> and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

> difficult to spot.
>
> Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,
>
> Troy Dunn
> Hull#514

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 02:06:36 +0000
From: Joe Grande <joe_g...@msn.com>
To: "C320...@catalina320.com" <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>, "c320...@lists.catalina320.com"

    <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Message-ID:
    <BL1PR11MB59782C7543...@BL1PR11MB5978.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jacob, if you are in the cockpit facing aft, the "starboard" hatch is on your LEFT! There is no right & left o  your boat; only starboard and port, regardless of where you are facing.
What's more relevant, does your bilge pump work?

Joe Grande
Whisper, #772
Lake Union, Seattle

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 6:54:17 PM
To: C320...@catalina320.com <C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>; c320...@lists.catalina320.com <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

When you say hatch, does this include the lockers? I don?t think I have any seals there.

Jacob

> On Mar 22, 2024, at 21:52, Troy Dunn via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>

> ?If the seal fails, the mast base can leak.  I know some folks tape the

> base over the winter while hauled out.  Probably not a bad tactic.
>
> Any original hatch seals on a hull as old as yours are shot.  If they

> don?t seal well in the summer they will leak like crazy in the winter.

>
> Opening portlights on the saloon are notorious for leaking through the
> dogs, the seals, etc.
>
> Try to see if your deck fills are still bedded well, and of course the head
> clean out.  These ports are close enough to the toe rail that if there is
> a leak path water will literally be rushing into the boat during a deluge

> and since these are all behind bulkheads and liners?.it would be very

> difficult to spot.
>
> Good luck.  Leaks can be a real bear to track down,
>
> Troy Dunn
> Hull#514

End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4610, Issue 3
******************************************

[Bruce Heyman via C320-list]

I've had some success using dry erase marker on the inside gelcoat. Wherever water passes over the dry erase marker it dissolves and goes away.

Bruce Heyman
Somerset #671 San Pedro (LA) California

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

Rainey day was today for sure. Was able to see that pretty much all my porthole windows are leaking and seem to have a more serious leak from around the propane container. So looks like butyl tape, 4600, and 5200 are in my future. Also, I may have a leak from one of the standing rigging mounts just above the starboard seating area. Appreciate all the ideas, was able to look closely in a lot of the places mentioned above and confirm or discount areas that need attention.

Jacob
STUDY HULL #305

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 09:57, Bruce Heyman via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> I've had some success using dry erase marker on the inside gelcoat. Wherever water passes over the dry erase marker it dissolves and goes away.

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

And also found out that my bilge hose has a pretty substantial break in it. So, I’ll be replacing that as well.

Jacob

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:34, Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rainey day was today for sure. Was able to see that pretty much all my porthole windows are leaking and seem to have a more serious leak from around the propane container. So looks like butyl tape, 4600, and 5200 are in my future. Also, I may have a leak from one of the standing rigging mounts just above the starboard seating area. Appreciate all the ideas, was able to look closely in a lot of the places mentioned above and confirm or discount areas that need attention.

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

Be careful with 5200. It is a permanent bond. No going back. 4200 or a similar adhesive is better.

With the ports, check whether it is the gasket or the caulking around the frame. I solved a big leak with butyl tape around the frame.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1898 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy A32 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone

[Joe Grande via C320-list]

Thank you, Jack! I was about to post the same cautionary note about 5200. It's intended to be permanent and lacks the flexibility of 4000.
I also want to thank our web/list masters for their service to the membership!
Joe Grande
Whisper #772

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________

From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jack Brennan via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 7:42:18 AM
To: C320...@Catalina320.com <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Cc: Jack Brennan <jackbre...@outlook.com>

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[Steve Weinstein via C320-list]

Jack and Joe beat me to the punch.  It's always been my understanding that 5200 is primarily for applications below the water line, mainly thru-hull fittings.  Stick with 4200.  Don't be tempted to use silicone sealers, like the stuff they sell for fixing tile leaks in bathrooms.  It makes a mess and is hard to clean up or remove later.  Best if you're rebedding things is butyl tap, IMHO.
Steve WeinsteinVega #722

[Joe Grande via C320-list]

New Topic: Edson Post Recoating

With severe paint flaking, I am overdue to refinish the post. What have others of you done? Is powder coating the best option?
Thanks for your input.
Joe Grande
Whisper #772

Seattle

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________

From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Steve Weinstein via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 8:15:35 AM
To: C320...@Catalina320.com <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Cc: Steve Weinstein <srw_...@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

Jack and Joe beat me to the punch. It's always been my understanding that 5200 is primarily for applications below the water line, mainly thru-hull fittings. Stick with 4200. Don't be tempted to use silicone sealers, like the stuff they sell for fixing tile leaks in bathrooms. It makes a mess and is hard to clean up or remove later. Best if you're rebedding things is butyl tap, IMHO.
Steve WeinsteinVega #722

On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 10:55:51 AM EDT, Joe Grande via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

Thank you, Jack! I was about to post the same cautionary note about 5200. It's intended to be permanent and lacks the flexibility of 4000.
I also want to thank our web/list masters for their service to the membership!
Joe Grande
Whisper #772

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

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[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

May have mis spoke. I have some below the water line repairs to do with 5200 still. Like my sink thru hull may be leaking and I’m debating repurposing that one anyways. Debating just pushing the sink to drain above the water line. Tracking 4200 for other stuff around the inside of the boat.

Jacob
Study hull#305

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:16, Steve Weinstein via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
>  Jack and Joe beat me to the punch. It's always been my understanding that 5200 is primarily for applications below the water line, mainly thru-hull fittings. Stick with 4200. Don't be tempted to use silicone sealers, like the stuff they sell for fixing tile leaks in bathrooms. It makes a mess and is hard to clean up or remove later. Best if you're rebedding things is butyl tap, IMHO.

[Allan Field via C320-list]

Sink drain thruhull above the waterline? Seems like a great entry point for
bugs, spiders and other nasties to enter your boat!

Allan S. Field


On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 12:26 PM Jacob Lang via C320-list <

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Here is my litany of leak discovery and repair..... primarily with regard to the aft section of the boat....and focusing on things that are not obvious! I am not repeating suggestions from other owners like water heater leaks, hatches that should be easy to see, etc.
Jacob ... I am not sure if you have the shallow bilge like me. If you do, water can get into the structural grid system and slowly seep out/up around your keel bolts.  This can definitely look like a keel bolt leak, but very likely is not ..... I know this from fixing surface water leaks as explained below and gradually seeing my keel bolts dry up several times.

1. The emergency tiller hatch is a bad design and prone to leakage. I replaced my entire hatch/port early on but the rubber seal is not great.  A coating of grease on the rubber o-ring can help seal out water for a while. 2. The seal around the top edge of the pan holding the propane tank on my boat leaked like crazy.  This compartment is not like the others in the cockpit.  There is no lip that the compartment cover seals over to prevent water intrusion. There were only 4 screws holding the pan down.  After removing the tank and unhooking the pan water drain hose, I lifted the pan up just enough to rebed it (didn’t need to unhook the propane lines) ... leak gone.3. The faucet of the stern shower leaked around the mount holes/water connections. There was no caulk at all beneath the faucet assembly. I bebbed it with butyl tape to stop the leak (a little tough since there us very little edge on the faucet assembly to seal).4. My Whale emergency pump in the cockpit was leaking around the outer seal.   I completely replaced the pump since it needed rebuilt anyway.5. I had a water line break hidden within my structural grid traveling from my Galley area to the head sink. This looked like a keel bolt leak due to water pooling in my structural grid,  but I replaced both hot and cold water lines which eliminated the seepage. I was unable to remove the old lines .... I just cut them and rerouted to install new lines. 
Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
Holland,  MI 

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

However, my real questions start with what I’m still chasing. I seem to have a fresh water coming in during storms. It’s been about three months that it’s been on the hard so the accumulation of about 2 to 3 gallons is a bit concerning. I think I’ve traced a leak down to at least one window. ( the one in the cockpit starboard side facing aft). However that can’t be the only source. Anyone have any ideas to start tracing? I’m wondering if the lockers are leaking to the bilge. Any thoughts to begin the hunt would be appreciated.

VR
Jacob

[Jacob Lang via C320-list]

This is all great info! I definitly saw the propane insert leaking, a lot during today’s down pour. Also I’ve been suspicious of my emergency tiller, I will be replacing the whole cover and trying to fix some of the hair line cracks coming from the port. Also, I will now be checking the emergency pump and I’m sure the outdoor shower is also leaking.

How did you find out your fresh water system was leaking? I’m suspect on this issue, because it looks like my keel bolts are leaking which lead me down the rabbit hole of checking my keel for cracks and was even going to rebed the keel bolts, but I may be chasing the wrong issue.

Jacob
STUDY HULL #305

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 18:07, Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Here is my litany of leak discovery and repair..... primarily with regard to the aft section of the boat....and focusing on things that are not obvious! I am not repeating suggestions from other owners like water heater leaks, hatches that should be easy to see, etc.

[Allan Field via C320-list]

Put different color food coloring in each water tank!
Allan S. Field


On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 8:12 PM Jacob Lang via C320-list <

[ART HARDEN via C320-list]

If you are talking galley sink the bottom of the sink is only a few inches from the waterline. Trying to add a shut off with access could be challenging.

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Art Harden
Catalina 320 "Tortuga" E-62
937.885.9380 (o)
937.477.5544 (m)

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Allan Field via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Sink drain thruhull above the waterline? Seems like a great entry point for

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

I figured out my freshwater line(s) was leaking because my water pressure pump kept cycling on and off to keep the lines pressurized. I couldn't figure out where i had a leak at first. Then water started slowly seeping up around my keel bolts.  I shut off my water tanks and bled the pressure out of the lines and the seepage stopped. 
I had been down this path before seeing water seepage around my keel bolts .. and being afraid my keel bolts/keel was leaking.  However, I tracked the problem back to rainwater leakage into various places on the boat that got into my structural grid, the water level rose, and ultimately seeped up around the bolts. 
I fixed the leaks, vacuumed up the water (look for pooled water through access holes in the structural grid to suck out), and my bilge and keel bolts have been bone dry now for years. It takes being a diligent detective to find and fix the leaks. Don't accept people saying boats leak!

Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

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On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 8:10 PM, Jacob Lang<jjla...@gmail.com> wrote: This is all great info! I definitly saw the propane insert leaking, a lot during today’s down pour. Also I’ve been suspicious of my emergency tiller, I will be replacing the whole cover and trying to fix some of the hair line cracks coming from the port. Also, I will now be checking the emergency pump and I’m sure the outdoor shower is also leaking.

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

You have to accept that fiberglass boats will leak sometimes.

Fiberglass is a flexible material. If you find yourself in rough seas now and then, or if gear such as stanchions are stressed, the sealant will lose its bond and allow leaks here and there. A never-ending battle that you lose only when you don’t fix them.

We should consider ourselves lucky. My old Bristol 30 had something like 160 bolts connecting the deck and toerail with the hull. After 45 years, there were always a couple of bolts that dripped, with no easy way to tighten them and stop the leak.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.

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From: Dave Hupe via C320-list<mailto:c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 9:12 PM
To: jjla...@gmail.com<mailto:jjla...@gmail.com>; C320...@catalina320.com<mailto:C320...@catalina320.com>
Cc: Dave Hupe<mailto:hoop...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

[Tim Van de Water via C320-list]

One other place to look that I have found on my 1998 (#573)… I found that the scuppers in the corners near the helm were leaking. I don’t know what model year the scuppers were added, but they were not on early models. They were clearly added to empty the cockpit corners in heavy seas and healed over beating to windward.

I agree with many of the posts… I have recently dealt with leaks through the jib car track, all of the opening port lights in the salon and aft cabin, and the chain plates.

Tim Van de Water
SV Coda #573

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jacob Lang via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>

Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 8:27:06 PM
To: c320...@lists.catalina320.com <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Cc: Jacob Lang <jjla...@gmail.com>
Subject: [C320-list] Chasing Leaks, yes starting that convo

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

There should be as all diameter pipe/hose on our boats that extends from just forward of the stuffing box area (look beneath the engine/shaft coupling), extending underneath the engine pan, and emptying into the aftmost bilge area.  The outside of the ends of this conduit should be sealed into holes drilled in the structural grid so that all water is transferred to the bilge.
I discovered that my boat does NOT have this conduit. Apparently the factory did not install one. Instead, if I let too much water accumulate from dripping of the stuffing box, it enters the open aft hole in my structural grid and fills the grid. Eventually as this water builds up enough, the water seeps up around my keel bolts. This was when I first thought my keel bolts/keel was leaking (wrong!).
This was one of the very first confusing leak sources I figured out.  I was able to vacuum water out of the structural grid through the open hole in the aftmost vertical wall of the aft bilge area.   Once I managed my stuffing box seepage better, this concern was eliminated .... it was clear I did not have a keel/keelbolt leak. 
Since discovering this, I have used Gore GFO stuffing box packing that can be tightened to leak very little without heating. I place a sponge in the area beneath the shaft just forward of the stuffing box. It sops up leakage and I just retrieve and squeeze out the sponge often enough that water cannot migrate through the open hole in the structural grid. 
Eventually, I might try to install the conduit extending under the engine pan that the factory failed to install. 

Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32

Holland,  MI 

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:15 PM, Jacob Lang<jjla...@gmail.com> wrote: This gives me a lot of confidence. I know my stuffing box was leaking, but now I’m thinking residual water from that was in the grid. Along with all the other leaks I have around windows. It just seems like a lot of water for it to be just windows, but I guess if they are all seeping then it can add up.
Jacob

On Mar 23, 2024, at 21:06, Dave Hupe <hoop...@yahoo.com> wrote:



I figured out my freshwater line(s) was leaking because my water pressure pump kept cycling on and off to keep the lines pressurized. I couldn't figure out where i had a leak at first. Then water started slowly seeping up around my keel bolts.  I shut off my water tanks and bled the pressure out of the lines and the seepage stopped. 

I had been down this path before seeing water seepage around my keel bolts .. and being afraid my keel bolts/keel was leaking.  However, I tracked the problem back to rainwater leakage into various places on the boat that got into my structural grid, the water level rose, and ultimately seeped up around the bolts. 
I fixed the leaks, vacuumed up the water (look for pooled water through access holes in the structural grid to suck out), and my bilge and keel bolts have been bone dry now for years. It takes being a diligent detective to find and fix the leaks. Don't accept people saying boats leak!
Dave

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 8:10 PM, Jacob Lang<jjla...@gmail.com> wrote: This is all great info! I definitly saw the propane insert leaking, a lot during today’s down pour. Also I’ve been suspicious of my emergency tiller, I will be replacing the whole cover and trying to fix some of the hair line cracks coming from the port. Also, I will now be checking the emergency pump and I’m sure the outdoor shower is also leaking.

How did you find out your fresh water system was leaking? I’m suspect on this issue, because it looks like my keel bolts are leaking which lead me down the rabbit hole of checking my keel for cracks and was even going to rebed the keel bolts, but I may be chasing the wrong issue.

Jacob
STUDY HULL #305 

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 18:07, Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Here is my litany of leak discovery and repair..... primarily with regard to the aft section of the boat....and focusing on things that are not obvious! I am not repeating suggestions from other owners like water heater leaks, hatches that should be easy to see, etc.
> Jacob ... I am not sure if you have the shallow bilge like me. If you do, water can get into the structural grid system and slowly seep out/up around your keel bolts.  This can definitely look like a keel bolt leak, but very likely is not ..... I know this from fixing surface water leaks as explained below and gradually seeing my keel bolts dry up several times.
>
> 1. The emergency tiller hatch is a bad design and prone to leakage. I replaced my entire hatch/port early on but the rubber seal is not great.  A coating of grease on the rubber o-ring can help seal out water for a while. 2. The seal around the top edge of the pan holding the propane tank on my boat leaked like crazy.  This compartment is not like the others in the cockpit.  There is no lip that the compartment cover seals over to prevent water intrusion. There were only 4 screws holding the pan down.  After removing the tank and unhooking the pan water drain hose, I lifted the pan up just enough to rebed it (didn’t need to unhook the propane lines) ... leak gone.3. The faucet of the stern shower leaked around the mount holes/water connections. There was no caulk at all beneath the faucet assembly. I bebbed it with butyl tape to stop the leak (a little tough since there us very little edge on the faucet assembly to seal).4. My Whale emergency pump in the cockpit was leaking around the outer seal.  I completely replaced the pump since it needed rebuilt anyway.5. I had a water line break hidden within my structural grid traveling from my Galley area to the head sink. This looked like a keel bolt leak due to water pooling in my structural grid,  but I replaced both hot and cold water lines which eliminated the seepage. I was unable to remove the old lines .... I just cut them and rerouted to install new lines.

> Dave Hupe
> 1994 C320 #32

> Holland,  MI

>
> Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer
>

>  On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:27 PM, Jacob Lang via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:  I may regret starting this thread but I’m curious. While my boat is in the water I believe my keel bolts were slightly weeping. The boat is out on the hard now and I’m addressing the slight cracks on the front of the keel using gflex and then additionally I’m resealing the washers around the keel bolts.

[P.F. Ross via C320-list]

A pretty thorough list here.

If your boat is in salt water, I knew a guy who (once he was sure his
holding tank was not the issue) would slightly dip his finger in the water
surrounding keel bolts and taste it on the tip of his tongue. If salty,
they were leaking. If not, it must be rainwater.

I woke up this morning, so the guy is still with us.

Frank Ross
Beta Wave #206
Naples, FL

[Dan Winsor via C320-list]

All shallow bilge owners,
My boat came with a factory bulletin that directed drilling holes into the
grid assembly to allow drainage and plugging the holes with expanding plugs
when not draining. I can look this up if anyone would like to see it. I
went one step further and added a hole one the top of each grid beam and I
have a reducer to 1" hose that allows me to suck the water out with my shop
vac (that I also use to suck the water out of all of the water lines so I
don't need any antifreeze come winter). I also snuck a second electric
bilge pump into the pocket just aft of the main bilge pump. Dont think this
one does much work under normal conditions but it's a good redundancy. I do
keep my water system so that the pump doesn't cycle (much) and I routinely
taste the bilge water. As long as it's not salty I blame ice meltage as we
keep a few blocks in the bottom of the fridge to lessen the work of
the compressor. This doesn't really pertain to stopping leaks but it makes
leaks less of a nuisance. LOL
I have learned a few things from this post and would like to thank everyone
for their two bits.

Dan Winsor
Lucky Devil #109

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 10:30 AM Dave Hupe via C320-list <

[Phil Hansen via C320-list]

How did you stop the jib car trac leaks?
Take up and re-bed or creaping crack cure?

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Phil - I pulled up my starboard track twice (not fun)  to stop leakage. Both times I used butyl tape. The first time it didn't work well because outside temperature was very hot and I had trouble placing the butyl. It stuck to my fingers but not as well to the track surface I was trying to place it on. So, I didn't get it placed well and leaks reappeared. The second time I did it in cooler weather and while my boat was on the hard. It went much better and seems ok.
I pulled the track completely off and cleaned the boat surface and track base very well. Most of the mount hardware are thrubolts with capnuts inside.  But at least one bolt threads into a plate impeded in the fiberglass.  Keep track of which bolts go with each hole and which is the one that doesn't thrubolt.
I laid the track (upside down) on a table and first taped the entire length of the track with butyl tape. I then carefully cut open the mount holes with an exacto blade. Then I poked all the mount bolts up from underneath (with a slather of butyl on the shank of each bolt just under the head for a seal).  I also rolled butyl tape and placed a "donut" of butyl around each bolt shank where it protruded out the bottom of the track. Note .... there is very little mount surface on the bottom of the track to create a seal!! So, these "donuts" on each bolt on the track bottom are very important to try to seal each track mount hole as the butyl gets squeezed during mounting.
With help, I carried the prepared track (upside down ... the butyl donuts kept the bolts from falling out) up onto the boat and tilted it over carefully .... slowly lining up each bolt with the mount holes. Then I pushed (not threaded) all the bolts simultaneously straight down into the mount holes. This was in order to not rip/disrupt the butyl.  I had someone on top holding the bolts (Philip head) so they didn't turn while I put nuts on each underneath. As a team, my helper on top kept the bolts from turning (so as not to break any seals on the bolt shanks) as I sequentially tightened nuts underneath. We did this gradually ... working up and down the track. The only bolt(s) that needed tightened from above were those that thread directly into threaded plates in the fiberglass.
Lastly, I carefully trimmed excess, squeezed out butyl from around the track. It is very important to trim it but don't pull any out from underneath the track because the mounting surface is so minimal. 

Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32
Holland, MI
Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 9:04 PM, Phil Hansen via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: How did you stop the jib car trac leaks?

[Phil Hansen via C320-list]

Wow -- thanks for the detailed explanation --Definitely a 2-person job.

[P.F. Ross via C320-list]

Yes, Dave, great job describing a task I will need to do soon.

Were you able to countersink the deck holes to allow extra butyl tape to
flow around the bolts? Sounds like things are really tight, so there may
not be room.

For those not familiar, here is a link to how butyl tape may be used on
deck hardware:

https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/

Rod Collins, the owner of this site, has unfortunately suffered from health
problems but keeps his site going. I also recommend the "Bed It" tape that
is linked on his site after trying several other brands.

Frank Ross
Beta Wave #206
Naples, FL

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:38 AM Phil Hansen via C320-list <

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Frank- I would not recommend counter-sinking the deck mount holes.  Although that definitely would be better to provide more space for the butyl to squeeze into, I believe that the widened deck holes would extend out beyond the very thin mounting surface of the genoa/jib track.  

Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
Holland,  MI 
Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 9:43 AM, P.F. Ross via C320-list<c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote: Yes, Dave, great job describing a task I will need to do soon.

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

Frank and Dave

Definitely was wondering why Dave left the countersink step out of the
description. I think those bolts are 5/16” and I would have thought the
track underneath is probably 1/2”? Maybe not. It wouldn't take much of a
chamfer to drastically improve the retained fill volume of the bed it tape
after squeeze out. It seems like even a small 1/16” increase in outer
diameter would work. Agree that over drilling the chamfer would be
problematic.

FWIW

Troy

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

Troy- When examining the cleaned genoa track upside down, I thought the space between the outer circumference of the bolt holes in the track and the outer edge of the track left too little bearing surface to think about counter-sinking the deck holes. I think maybe there was 1/8 inch at best  on each edge. It might work to counter-sink, but that was my appraisal at the time of how best to get my seal.

Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
Holland,  MI 

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 9:33 PM, Troy Dunn<troutw...@gmail.com> wrote: Frank and Dave