[C320-list] Kiwi Prop

[Rick Evans]

I've been thinking of a feathering prop for a while but the price has
deterred me. I've seen a lot of you have Kiwi's I would like to get opinions
Pros Cons etc.

Is the pitch difficult to get right for a C320 with a yanmar?
Does anyone paint it? Pros Cons?

Anything else helpful for installation shaft diameter? Left or right
rotation? Maximum radius?

Rick 724

[rco...@twcny.rr.com]

I had a fixed 2 blade and changed to the kiwi. I was amazed by the difference when motor sailing and backing. With the 2 blade I would try to stop/back and prayed I did'nt hit anything. With the kiwi at 5 knots 1 1/2 boat lengths to stop. I backed into my slip with it. Prop still exists not as bad. Turn 10 degrees more than u need prop will pull port and u r straight. Loved the kiwi
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[rco...@twcny.rr.com]

Correction prop walk still exists; however, minimal compared to fixed prop.
Ray

[Robert E. Sloat]

Andrew-Ditto on the Autoprop which I have on my 2002 320 for 6 years now. A
little pricy. Boat show price and no sales tax to boot helped a little.
I do sometimes miss the prop walk with my old OEM fixed 3 blade when doing
pivot turns in tight quarters, but otherwise a good performer.

Did you use a spacer on the Autoprop installation to keep the blades from
brushing the strut during the pivot from forward to reverse? I installed a
5/8 in. spacer on the prop shaft to make it a little longer to eliminate any
possibility of contact during blade pivoting when shifting between forward
and reverse. I am considering removing the spacer since the prop shaft is
at the maximum recommended 1.5 inches distance from the prop front hub to
the strut with the spacer and am concerned about cutlass bearing wear as the
prop is heavier than the original 3 blade fixed prop as are most of the
feathering ones. It is a simple trick to remove the spacer and go back to
the original prop shaft length.

Bob Sloat
Savannah #894

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Santangelo" <andrew_s...@mac.com>
To: <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Kiwi Prop

> Well I cannot speak for the Kiwi Prop, however the Autoprop has worked
> fantastic for me all these years.
>
> Great for racing (even cruising without being dragged down), max speed at
> lower RPM, no prop walk, no calibration need, easy to install - and it
> just works!
>
> The Autoprop is a must have investment.
>
> Andrew
> #333
> C320 "Dawn Treader"
> Pier 39
> San Francisco

[Brad Kuether]

I had the Kiwi prop on my short list. On my C&C I had a composite CDI
feathering, and loved it, so no issue with the plastic/composite blades.

The Kiwi is about $1300 for a feathering device. Several listers pointed me
to the Flex O Fold 3 blade folding. At a price point of about $2,000, I am
thinking there is "more value" from an overall functionality standpoint.

Still expensive, but once you have "gone fast" you kinda need that, its
kinda like a drug... :)

Dragging the fixed 3 blade around has been KILLING me. Last year I hooked a
crab pot on the prop at dusk and had to be night rescued. This year I just
felt like I was dragging a bucket.

-Brad, Mary, Monica, and Jarod
"Independence"
2004 Catalina 320 Hull 1006
Middle River, MD

[Jon Vez]

I am also very happy with my Autoprop. Have had it for 8 seasons and really
love it. I cut a 'notch' out of my strut to accommodate the pivoting. The
main reason I opted for the AP was for the self pitching capability. I also
use about .15 less gallons per hour when motoring. Expensive, but in my
opinion worth it--

Regards,

Jon Vez
Solstice #582

[turk]

[Amirault Family - S&B]

Rick:

I have had a Kiwi Prop on Bear for three years replacing a fixed three
blade. It cost 1250 Cdn and came with a fine maker's ball cap at no
additional charge. It has proven a good purchase.

Sailing performance is superior. I race (poorly) and can report that I come
out of a tack and regain speed faster than with the original. There is
little difference in heavy air, but in light wind I pick up at least a half
knot.

Under motor there is still prop walk in reverse. I don't think it is so much
specifically reduced, but more that I get way quicker. With the three blade
in reverse the stern would go immediately to port and eventually start
moving to the rear. With the Kiwi movement to the rear happens much sooner
so correcting for prop walk in reverse is waaaay easier if that makes sense
to you. I no longer sweat my neighbour when backing out of my slip.
Performance forward is no different than with the original prop.

The prop comes from the factory already adjusted for pitch, although the
manual shows you how to make your own adjustments. The manufacturer requires
that you identify your make/model of boat, motor and transmission and they
do the rest. I have had no complaint.

Thus far maintenance has been simple. I haul in the fall as we get freeze in
the harbour in the Great White North. The manual identifies the grease
points so a marine grease is applied before layup. This forces out any water
collected in the moving parts before freeze. That's it. I hope this moves
you forward.

Brian Amirault
797 Waltzing Bear, too

[Shawn Maloney]

I had a Kiwi propeller for three years. I now have a Variprofile which is
superior. The Kiwi pitch changes as the roller stoppers eventually bite
into the plastic blade. In fact, in my case one of the stoppers was sheered
off and the blade became stuck in the wrong position. I also, over time,
experienced a strong vibration that became so bad it stalled out the engine.

You get what you pay for. The 2 blade variprofile is much more robust and
any folding or feathering blade will give you better sailing performance
then the fixed three blade.

[Bruce Stanley]

Kiwi Prop
Rick i have used the Kiwi Prop since new.
The price difference was the deciding factor for me.
I was assured it was the one to have ... so I bought it.
Prop walk is minimal .... which is an enormous amount compared to a fixed
prop.
Blade angle ... this has been a concern ... as it apparently is with other
feathering props.
Blade angle has been a problem, but was fixed by the mftr.
If I had the spare cash, like really spare, i would think of a top quality
folding prop.

good luck with your decision

Bruce Stanley C320 / #1084
Sydney Australia

PS i have the Yanmar 3YM30
1" s/s shaft
Right Handed 16.5" x 22 Kiwiprop
PPS email Kiwi prop (NZ) with your specs and concerns
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Bruce Stanley]

Hi Brian
Well said, Brian
you have clearly stated the strengths and minor weakness' of the KP.

Your message from the Great White North, makes me pleased I choose to leave
Toronto for sunny Sydney ;o))

Bruce Stanley C320 #1084
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Colin Evans]

Hi Bruce

We are considering new props at the moment. I'm interested in your comment
about a top quality folding prop..on our previous boat we had a three blade
folding Volvo prop installed and were really happy with it in forward and
reverse. We are torn between this and an Autostream feathering prop, our
neighbour 320 has one of these and loves it. Why would you prefer a folding
prop over a feathering one?

************************************
Regards
Colin Evans
Hull 774
C320 Watermark
Lake Macquarie
__/)
~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com
[mailto:c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Stanley
Sent: Thursday, 18 November 2010 8:55 AM
To: C320...@catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Kiwi Prop

[Bruce Stanley]

Colin
the 2 things the folding have over the feathering are:
1) a folding should not foul on a mooring/lobster pot rope (keel and rudder
will, but a folding prop should slip off it)
2) the Kiwi Prop can have issues with pitch/angle setting and is adjustable
.... perhaps leading to problems. This occurred to me and I posted over to
Auckland, they adjusted the 3 blades ... even put new blades on and sent it
back to me. The Autostream (Melbourne?) is factory set, but may have issues
with settings and anodes. Price is also an issue.
Guess it is like all things boating ... a compromise is required.

BruceS

[Colin Evans]

Thanks Bruce,
Do you have any idea how the folding props affect propwalk. I have a lot of
trouble getting the boat to reverse into the pen with my 3 blade fixed
"brake" Once I`m moving it isn`t too bad but can be a bit hairy in the
confines of the marina and I have to move at a reasonable speed to keep
control.
I liked the folding prop on the previous boat and they are virtually
maintenance free except when slipping, but I`m a bit concerned about fitting
a folding type and not gaining anything for it.

************************************
Regards
Colin Evans
Hull 774
C320 Watermark
Lake Macquarie

[Bruce Stanley]

Colin
The Kiwi is excellent in reversing.
Full (well near 100%) power/thrust in reverse will only a very little Prop
Walk.
This was the most important advantage and the reason I put it on from new.
I use the fixed 3 blader for a few months and was pleased to get the
Feathering Kiwi back on.
We have a difficult marina berth and must reverse in.

BruceS
Pittwater

PS when you put the Kiwi in Reverse ... there is a noise and shudder ... i
think that is normal ... but be aware of it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[P & B Sheerin]

Colin, We have an Autostream on our 320. We love it. Great propulsion
forward and reverse, little prop walk, little maintenance other than a
yearly grease and coated with Prop Speed. Beautifully built. I wish I could
use it on my Cessna! Three other Catalina's have them in our marina. Peter
"Jaraman" 1096

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Evans" <twosa...@bigpond.com>
To: <C320...@Catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Kiwi Prop

>

> Hi Bruce
>
> We are considering new props at the moment. I'm interested in your
> comment
> about a top quality folding prop..on our previous boat we had a three
> blade
> folding Volvo prop installed and were really happy with it in forward and
> reverse. We are torn between this and an Autostream feathering prop, our
> neighbour 320 has one of these and loves it. Why would you prefer a
> folding
> prop over a feathering one?
>
>
> ************************************
> Regards
> Colin Evans
> Hull 774
> C320 Watermark
> Lake Macquarie
> __/)
> ~~~~~
>
>>

>> Rick 724
>>
>
>

[Simon Rock]

We fitted a Hydralign feathering prop to our C375. So far it has been great.
The supplier came and fitted it to the boat (I did not trust the delivery
dealer to do the job properly - but that is another long story).
I will test the amount of prop walk today.
At the moment, the C36/375 discussion is also on prop walk and docking
issues. Here are some links that have been suggested there.

http://www.boatdocking.com/other/Sternway.html

http://www.seaskills.com/files/SeaSkillsDockingDIYMagazine.pdf

http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm

Simon Rock
C320 #1163
C375 #41
C375 #54

[Jerry]

We have now used our Kiwi Prop for 3 seasons. Previously we had a fixed two
blader on a previous 320 (hull 925). The Kiwi prop has been great. It
arrived correctly pitched from the factory. The original plastic blades are
still in good order (at $100 each, changeable by knocking out a single pin I
wondered if they would need replacing by now). Top speed in calm conditions
is the same a with the fixed prop. Drive forward is noticeably stronger
when beating into headwaves/winds etc. We can maintain around 6 knots in
heavy conditions where we would have been down to around 4 knots with the
two blader. Reversing is completely different. The boat can be stopped
dead in not much more than it's own length in emergencies once in gear which
best describes the reverse power. Manoeuvring is made extremely easy. The
time spent under power in reverse is so short that prop walk is much less of
an issue. You can get the boat going with a short application of power and
then go into neutral if prop walk is going to be a problem in a particular
situation. We dock to port so that is how I generally leave the dock.
Maintenance has consisted of removing the blades and greasing each year when
the boat is on the hard, about 30 mins work, and painting with VC 17 when I
put a coat on the rest of the hull in the spring. You need to be careful
when applying the VC 17 to make sure there are no runs as this can cause
vibrations apparently. The operation of the prop has been completely
smooth. We did have drive issues when the boat was delivered but they were
cured eventually by new engine mounting adjustment plates (insufficient
travel to permit alignment in the originals), new engine mounts and a new
prop shaft and coupling. The Kiwi prop was demonstrably better balanced
than the two blader when the two were changed over during the fault finding
process.

Under sail performance in light airs is improved. Drag is marginally higher
than with a folder (there was great article in UK Practical Sailor comparing
the drag from the different prop types based on work conducted by a German
University) but much less than a two blader. There is no noticeable
difference as far as I can tell over about 10 to 12 knots of wind with the
sails trimmed.

For us price was a major consideration. We have been really happy with the
Kiwi prop, especially the improvement in the ease of docking.

Jerry
Indigo #1137

[Robert Tiernay]

I purchased a kiwi prop about 3 years ago. The support (John Blundell) was
great. I used the prop on the chesapeake for several months and thought the
prop wsa better than sex. Boat stopped on a dime easy to back up. Could
not make top revs and had problems with black smoke when my Balmar
alternator engaged. Against John's recommendation I turned the adjustments
screws backa 1/2 turn. Still only could get to 3100 rpm (versus the spec of
3400). Started heading south and in Norfolk found boat wouldn't reverse on
occasion. Not fun whne you are approaching a bridge! I asked Mack Boring
for help and they correctly diagnosed that the prop was at fault. The
blades were likely not flipping over . In talking to them I found out that
if you cannot meet the spec loaded revs of the engine (the 3gm30f is 3400
rpm) then you would likely not be covered by warranty for any major repair.
The reason being that is that if you are overloaded at max revs then you are
also overlaoded over the whole rpm range. I took the prop off and put on
the factory prop - no more black smoke. Sent the prop back to kiwi and they
installed some new bushing which are now standard on new production.
Haven't put it back on as I have been motoring a lot and the factory prop is
more effecient. I belive there was some lawsuits about the reversing
issue - people hitting docks etc.

Bob Tiernay 725

[MICHAEL COLE]

Just my 2 cents worth in this annual discussion on feathering/ folding props etc
I bought my boat new in December 1996 and had them fit an Australian Hydralign 2 bladed prop about which I knew absolutely nothing. Now 14 yrs later it is still going strong and absolutely trouble free. If there is any prop walk I've never detected it. It works well in reverse and I have to back into a narrow old marina berth here in Rose Bay Sydney. My technique is to approach fairly fast in reverse and slip into neutral about 20ft out and cut the revs down--changing into forward when about halfway in to avoid hitting the wharf
Mike Cole #421 Mio Dio

[Jerry]

Interesting comments. I will simply say that we get full revs on our
Yanmar, have not had a black smoke issue and have not had a reversing issue
with the Kiwi prop to date.

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Tiernay
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:48 PM
To: c320...@lists.catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Kiwi Prop

[ericstill...@gmail.com]

Thanks all for the comments.

What it seems is you get what you pay for and for less than half the price I will prob go with the Kiwi

Thanks
Rick
724
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

[Bruce Stanley]

I too have not had black smoke ... then the Yanmar 3Y30M has only 425 hours.

MAY I SUGGEST
you send Kiwi Prop each negative comment
and see what his answers are.

Bruce Stanley/C320 #1084
Sydney Australia
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[David Swanson]

Okay all of your C320 List Server fans, I have a question that I hope I could find some Catalina C320-specific advice on:

I am researching installation of forced air diesel heaters to install on our C320 Mk II (Hull No. 1107). I am planning on installing a Wallas 30D or 40D forced air furnace. I have learned that the biggest complexity of forced air heater installation is routing and installing the 3-inch diameter forced air duct.

I am planning on installing the furnace in the STBD cockpit locker (to help offset a slight PORT list) and plumbing the fuel feed directly from the existing fuel tank. Fortunately, the North America Wallas distributor is Scan Marine in Seattle (where I live), so I am sure I can obtain general installation advice from them. Due to the economy (or lack thereof), they are offering the boat show discount year 'round for those who ask.

I have researched all Google forums, our C320 forum, and the other accessible Catalina forums, and only found a couple of posts in the C36 forum that describes heater duct installation on the C36. However, what I am after is any C320-specifc advice on how and where to route heater duct on my boat.

So my questions are:

1. Has anyone installed a forced air heater system in their C320? What brand and model did you install? Are you happy with it?

2. Has anyone installed heater duct running from the stern lockers to the forward V-berth cabin on a C320? How about you warm weather owners? AC duct installations? If so, how and where did you route the duct? Port side, starboard side, high or low? I would imagine AC duct should be high and heater duct should be low. However, space availability will dictate this I suspect?

3. I thought that I read somewhere that C320's come with heat or cooling ductwork pre-installed at the factory. Is this true or just a myth that I am dreaming up? Perhaps, this is just wishful thinking on my part to a avoid a pain-in-the neck owner installation?

4. Any and all advice would be much appreciated.

I will be installing this heater this winter this off-season, so i have lots of time to complete the tasks before spring sailing starts up in March. If I get it installed around the holidays, perhaps I'll take the family on a President's Day Weekend Cruise in a warm heated boat!

Thanks for your input, experience, and advice.

Dave Swanson
S/V Emily Ann
2007 C320 MK II, No 1107
Mukilteo, WA

[Stephen Cox]

>
> I am researching installation of forced air diesel heaters to
> install on our C320 Mk II (Hull No. 1107). I am planning on
> installing a Wallas 30D or 40D forced air furnace. I have
> learned that the biggest complexity of forced air heater
> installation is routing and installing the 3-inch diameter
> forced air duct.
>

...
...
...

>
> I have researched all Google forums, our C320 forum, and the
> other accessible Catalina forums, and only found a couple of
> posts in the C36 forum that describes heater duct
> installation on the C36. However, what I am after is any
> C320-specifc advice on how and where to route heater duct on
> my boat.
>

Can't say as I've noticed any ducting in place in my MkII but the roof
lining on the starboard side comes down the side of the cabin(s) a bit
further out than the port side. I believe this was to facilitate the
installation of heater ducting.

Stephen Cox
Canberra AUSTRALIA
Tegwen #1141

[Robert E. Sloat]

David-My concern would be to have a flame generating furnace near to a 19
gallon diesel fuel tank which sits in the same locker. Also, there may be
some Coast Guard regulations on placement of these devices near fuel tanks.
They have strict rules on things like this. The manufacturer should be able
to answer location questions on furnace proximity to fuel tanks.

Bob Sloat
Savannah 894

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Swanson" <kswan...@comcast.net>
To: <C320...@Catalina320.com>

[Utility Email]

FYI. Here is a response that I received from the Catalina factory on AC duct installation. This is the best answer that i recieved on how to install HVAV ducting in my C320. They included photos and a drawing. This might be good to include in Mainsheet or on our C320IA website as reference material.

Dave

Dave Swanson
S/V Emily Ann
2007 C320 MK II, No 1107
Mukilteo, WA

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Kent Nelson" <Ke...@catalinayachts.com>
> Date: November 30, 2010 10:29:18 AM PST
> To: <davidb...@comcast.net>
> Subject: C 320 Heater Installation
>

> David,
> Attached is a drawing and photos of the reverse cycle heater / AC unit that we have installed on the C 320. Nothing is pre-ducted so you will need to add the ducting similar to our install.
>
> Good Sailing,
>
> Kent Nelson
> Engineering Department
> Catalina Yachts
> 21200 Victory Blvd.
> Woodland Hills, CA 91367
> (818) 884-7700 ext. 237
> (818) 884-3810 Fax
> ke...@catalinayachts.com
> www.catalinayachts.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidb...@comcast.net [mailto:davidb...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:41 PM
> To: Kent Nelson
> Subject: Catalina Yachts Contact Us Form
>
> First Name: David
> Last Name: Swanson
> Address: 9711 58TH PL W
> City: Mukilteo
> State: WA
> Zip: 98275
> Day Phone: 425-508-7971
> Evening Phone: 425-355-1195
> Fax: 425-741-3900
> E-mail: davidb...@comcast.net
> Boat Model: C320 Mark II
> Hull: 1107
> Country: United States
> Comments:
> I am getting ready to install a diesel forced air heater in my 2007 C320 MK II in the aft cockpit locker. Not sure if port or starboard, yet. I will need to install 3" diameter heater duct runs from this cockpit locker space to the aft cabin (easy), the main cabin (harder) and possibly the v-berth and head (hardest). Does my boat have spaces dedicated for me to make these 3" heater duct runs? If so, where are they located? Please advise via email or telephone. Thanks! David Swanson Mukilteo, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

David B. Swanson, P.E., S.E.
Principal, LEED AP
Director, Structural Engineering

Reid Middleton, Inc.
(425) 741-3800 office
(425) 741-5011 direct
(425) 508-7971 mobile

www.reidmiddleton.com

[Chris Burti]

If you could forward that information to me off list (list server
strips attachments), I will write up a Mainsheet article...Deadline is
upon me, so this very timely.

clburti_at_gmaildotcom

--
Chris Burti Farmville, NC

[Utility Email]

Done. Thanks for doing this. I believe it can be helpful for other C320 owner contemplating adding heat or AC.

Dave

[John Frost]

I am about to finally pull the trigger and order my folding prop from Gori.

They have calculated my needs as follows:
"You should have received the calculation on the Gori folding propeller
options for your Catalina 320 with the 3YM30, 2.62:1 ratio. We have done
many installs on the Catalina's & below is the best optimum sizing after
extensive sea trial test. Gerry Douglas, president of Catalina has a Gori &
can attest to the quality & performance of the Gori. Below is the sizing and
pricing for the Gori propeller options that will best suit your boat from
the information you gave.

15" x 12 x 2-blade RH - List $1198.00 Spring special cost
$1078.00 for order placed by end of March.
15" x 10 x 3-blade RH - List $3095.00 Spring special cost
$2699.00 for order placed by end of March."

For my engine/transmission, does anyone have any thoughts on the size and
pitch they have recommended? My notes indicate that the factory fixed prop
for my boat is a little different than this (15" x 11 for 2 blade and 15" x
11 for the 3 blade)

Happy Sailing!

John
2007 C320MKII
Hull 1118
Guntersville, AL

[Magnuson's Time A Weigh]

Hi John,
It appears that you have definitely done your home work. I have seen many
posts on this site about folding or feathering props. When I bought my 1995
four years ago, I was advised by several of my very experienced sailing
friends who advised me to buy a Max-Prop, which I did solely based on their
testimonials. I have been extremely impressed with its performance.
Thrust at low rpms, stopping, and reverse make my 320 handle like a dream..
Having nothing else to compare it to though, I am curious if others are
using the Max Prop or have had any experience with them since I haven't seen
many comments about them?

Gary
1995 #205
Time A Weigh
Hudson. IL