Java PHP or .NET

[john.g.m...@gmail.com]

I just read an interesting article that Clint Checketts sent me listing
101 reasons why java is better than .NET. So I wanted to pose the
questions. What is the best development language? What do you guys
like? What has been your experience so far?

I've worked with some PHP and some .NET and I have to say... I like
what I see in java. I hear good things about Ruby too.

So let's hear what you think!

[Clint Checketts]

On 4/18/06, john.g.m...@gmail.com <john.g.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just read an interesting article that Clint Checketts sent me listing
101 reasons why java is better than .NET.  So I wanted to pose the
questions.  What is the best development language?  What do you guys
like?  What has been your experience so far?

A flame war! Sweet! First of all: I'm biased and I love OO development so I say Ruby on Rails is excellent. Though the school has done an excellent job covering Java. (I wish we would have touched more on Spring, Hibernate, and JSF though)

A great rule of thumb is to learn a new language a year. That way you can see what is good in each language and use the best tool for the job. The saying is: 'If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail' (or something similar) So it's good to know how to use a cresent wrench before you try mashing in the bolts with your great hammer.

John's best question is 'What have you had experience with so far?'  This interestes me because I'd like to know who is a Perl guru if I want to as k him questions, or who understand PHP objects. I'll post back later and flesh out my preferences and specialities. I'm interested in everyone elses comments though.

-Clint

[wheaties.box]

I personally love PHP. I've been using it for about 7 or 8 years now
and I am continually impressed by the new things I learn about it when
I don't even mean to. Pretty much any project that I have done in any
language, so long as it doesn't rely on graphics, can be done in PHP.
When I was taking C++ classes back in the day, I was able to port most
of those programs to PHP without much hassle.

However, I have recently started getting into Java again. My only
complaint is the startup speed, but that has improved quite a bit from
when I first played with Java. The startup time is made up for by
portability--the same application can be used by any machine that has a
JVM, be it Windows, Linux, Mac, or a toaster oven. I think Java is
probably my second favorite language at the moment, generally speaking.

As for .NET...I'm not Microsoft's biggest fan. Yes, yes, I know...
They're the de facto standard and all that, but that doesn't mean that
I have to like it. Microsoft definitely has their place in the
world--just not on my computers. At first I liked what I read about
.NET. Everything was supposedly consolidated into one easy-to-use
language. Fantastic. But then there's the portability issue. Yes,
there is mono for Linux, but does that really work all that well?
meh.... I have to use .NET at work, and I am still not the biggest
fan. Of the three technologies discussed in this thread, .NET is the
only one you have to pay for. That's another kicker for me. You don't
always get quality for your buck.

Just my opinion, baised as it may be.

[John Martinson]

I've only lightly dabbled in PHP, and from what I have seen everything
for PHP is in a web container. Can I make a stand alone app that I
can run? Or Am I limitted to the PHP web server?

[Marn...@gmail.com]

I've not used PHP or *.Net, but right now on my spare time I'm
tinkering with Labview.

Labview - is made by National Instruments, and is not like most
programming languages. It is a "graphical" programming language. What
this means is no text code - you build diagrams that are your program.
The advantage of this is the program follows the flow of the data, and
you don't have to worry about how to build using regular text based
programming language.

Labview is not limited to Windows, and runs fine most environments
(Unix, Linux, etc...)

Under the hood, Labview is written in G (meaning G is the native
language of Labview). I don't know that much about G - except that it
is also graphical (there is a version called OpenG).

Basicly, Labview uses something called data flow programming to do work
- which means that how your data flows through nodes within the program
will decide the order of execution of operations of your program.
Labview is somewhat object oriented (at least what I have seen). In
Labview, programs / subroutines are (called) visual instruments (which
are standalone components). You can then combine the vi's (visual
instruments) to make bigger programs.

If you want to know more - look up dataflow programming on Wikipedia.
It's pretty cool.

In real life, from what I've seen and know - Labview is mostly used by
engineers for interacting with robots and automated systems.

[William Dalton]

I have a question concerning platform specific development.  All of my development experience has been on windows and as I have come to understand through passing conversations that it is far better to develop certain programming languages on different operating systems. 

 

For example, the last few months I have been exploring the world of Perl.  I can see advantages and disadvantages to the language itself but I must say it has been less than enjoyable developing Perl on Windows.  From what I see it would be much easier to do Perl on Linux or Unix, I base my assumption on the fact that 95% of documentation I have found assumes I'm using Linux or Unix which is a pain, when there are system calls that you need but don't exist in windows I think.

 

I have also heard that Java is much easier to develop on a Mac, mainly because macs are already setup with a JVM.  If this is refutable I would like to know.

 

I have used .NET a little bit and unless you have admin privileges it is a pain to debug or anything, which brings up the point that you will only have admin privileges on your home computer and you would need to purchase your own copy.

 

Too bad there wasn't just one OS to rule them all when it comes to programming development.  Is it Linux or Mac or something else, I surely don't believe it's Windows.

 

[john.g.m...@gmail.com]

When it comes to our chosen career path I have to say that we have be
more flexable and able to swithch between things. The truth is every
technology has strengths and weeknesses. It really comes down to pick
your poison. But as for different oporating systems I would like to
know that as well. Because as the world turns things are going to
change and who knows what we might be designing our apps for. If java
is better on MAC or .NET on windows, let's hear it.

[Reed Stone]

-- one OS to rule them all --

There is a unique project I have had my eye on for the last few years
that can/will be able to run bolth win32 and POSIX (Unix/Linux)
systems. This OS is not ready for use on Production systems as it is
only at v 0.29 but check out ReactOS.org this system will when complete
be able to run linux and windows aplacations and use linux tools on a
windows like system. the other thing about this system that i like is
windows drivers will work on it natively. One of the largest problems
with linux are driver issues.

[wheaties.box]

@John
You certainly can develop PHP applications that don't require you to be
using a web browser. I've done this on several projects of mine. If
you want to run a php script from the command line, you can use "php -f
filename.php"

I once did this to convert a large text file version of a book into
several HTML chapter files. The script parsed the text file and looked
for certain delimiters that were already set in the text file. When it
found one of these delimiters, it opened a file pointer and dumped what
it needed to into an HTML page formatted as I desired. I did all of
this on a Linux system, but I'm sure that you could apply the same
concept in Windows by adding php.exe to your system path. And, yes,
you can do the same thing with other languages..I just chose PHP
because I like it so much.

@William
Developing Java applications can be quite easy on just about any
system. I have learned to love the NetBeans IDE for my Java
development. I use it regularly at work and have it installed on my
Windows laptop and Linux desktop. The IDE itself is written in Java,
so you could supposedly use it on a Mac as well. Never had a Mac to
try that on, though.

The suitability/ease of using Linux, Windows, or Mac for development
usually depends on the language. I am a hardcore Linux fan. Most of
my development is done on a Linux system. I have found over the years
that software development is generally easier for me on Linux than
Windows. I'm not sure if that will ever change. My development is
usually done in the following languages: PHP, C/C++, Java, Perl, shell
scripts, etc.. Those are all pretty straightforward to use in Linux.
If I'm using .Net, Windows is my only choice. If I'm using AppleScript
(if that's still used?), I'd have to use a Mac. It's all about the
task at hand and the resources available.

@Reed:
I heard about ReactOS some time ago... I thought it sounded really
cool, but upon a little investigation, I learned (if I remember
correctly) it was kinda like Linspire. It just used WINE and
Transgaming technologies to allow Windows programs and drivers to run
in a Linux environment. I could be entirely wrong on this, since these
memories are at least 3 years old. I, for one, would love to see
ReactOS in production form.

[Reed Stone]

ReactOS is not wine on staroids it is a native ground up windows like OS with doplacated system hooks API etc... the kernel is all new code. Becuse it is madular in nature there is an effort to make an OS/2 port and build in POSTX support those last things are lower in prioity than win 32 but have most of the os working the only reason they are at v0.2.9 and not 0.3.0 is they are auditing their code for anything that could be microsoft's or writen by someone who has seen microsoft code. I can garantee that MIcrosoft lawyers will be all over this project like an angry fire-ant army.

On 4/19/06, wheaties.box <wheati...@gmail.com> wrote:

[wheaties.box]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to keep an eye on that project.
Let's just hope that everything is coming along well, eh

[WayneH...@gmail.com]

I concede the point that with .NET 1.0 and 1.1 debugging was a pain.
It seeemed a little lame to me that I had to install IIS to be able to
test the sites that I developed, and even when things went OK it seemed
like it was a hassle.

However, with the realease of .NET 2.0, there are MANY drastic
improvements with regards to usability in the IDE environment. For
example the .NET web express version (which is free to all hobbists)
comes with its own testing web server, so debugging code is a snap.
The other thing I like is that it does not require the use of IE. In
1.x you could only debug using IE. Becuase it now has its own
debugigng webserver, it uses whatever your default browser is (in my
case Firefox).

--Wayne Hartman

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> <div>I have a question concerning platform specific development.&nbsp; All of my development experience has been on windows and as I have come to understand through passing conversations that it is far better to develop certain programming languages on different operating systems.&nbsp;
> </div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>For example, the last few months I have been exploring the world of Perl.&nbsp; I can see advantages and disadvantages to the language itself but I must say it has been less than enjoyable developing Perl on Windows.&nbsp; From what I see it would be much easier to do Perl on Linux or Unix, I base my assumption on the fact that 95% of documentation I have found assumes I'm using Linux or Unix which is a pain, when there are system calls that you need but don't exist in windows I think.
> </div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>I have also heard that Java is much easier to develop on a Mac, mainly because macs are already setup with a JVM.&nbsp; If this is refutable I would like to know.</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>I have used .NET a little bit and unless you have admin privileges it is a pain to debug or anything, which brings up the point that you will only have admin privileges on your home computer and you would need to purchase your own copy.
> </div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>Too bad there wasn't just one OS to rule them all when it comes to programming development.&nbsp; Is it Linux or Mac or something else, I surely don't believe it's Windows.</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
>
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