Re: Leipzig - living infrastructure for 1500 euros , livable for 3000

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

If you are interested in the last mail sent on building up our own use value and peer production infrastructures, in an urban context, starting with housing :

A friend who owns a building in Leipzig and has been in the process of renovating it in the last year, replied by giving more precise details of the costs.

See details below...

In brief :

To make it livable, another 60 000 euros are required,

hence a total cost of 120 000 euros for 600 square meters,

hence an entrance fee, per apartment of 50 square meters, of 3000 euros,

for a total cost of 12 000 euros per flat.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: t


On 21 Jul 2010, at 12:35 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:

> Setting up the Gmbh costs 25 000 euros , but this seems to be paid by the syndikat.

My understanding (based on what I read last year) is the the syndikat pays half (12,500€)
>
> I remember that the syndikat pays for the Gmbh part ( 25 000 euros ),
> and that they can help you get a loan with an ethical bank ( maximum 3 percent interest ) up to 3/4 credit,

and you can also get direct credits from other house projects or house project members

> so you need 1/4 of the purchase cost of the building in cash, which for a 60 000 euro building is 15 000 euros,
> divided by 10 people, thats 1500 euros.
>
> I calculated that the 45 000 euros credit, divided by 10, 4500 euros, can be paid off in 10 years with ... well... 37,5 euros a month per flat. Without counting the maximum 3 percent interest.

The GS has 6 apartments (so about 10 people, including work space). And it cost about 60k€, so it is more or less the model building that you are estimating for. There are some expenses which you might want to put in your calculations:

insurance: about 700€ per year
insurance for windows: 250€ per year
connecting to city sewer system: 1500€ once
hauling out debris from one renovated apartment: 200€ once
new wires for one apartment: 700€ once
new electrical backbone: 2000€ once
sales tax and notary expenses: 3500€ once

These are just a few examples; thousands of euros have been spent on other things, like replacing floor boards and windows. Actually, I've been spending hundreds of euros every month just for little things, like installing sinks and lights and locks.

The "problem" is that for 60k€, you can't get a usable building. You have to fix a lot of things. By the time the GS is minimally  usable, 40k€ will have been spent on renovations, bringing the total cost of the building to 100k€. Think about it: 40k is two-thirds of the purchase price.

Sooner or later, I will have to install a heating system: 30k€

The GS is in unusually good shape, according to the architects that visited it. Most abandoned buildings in Lindenau have consequential problems. That's why they are abandoned. The renovation cost exceeds the purchase price and also exceeds what can be recaptured with rent. So if you come up with plans in which you are paying less than Lindenau market value rent, you have to ask yourself, why is the owner not renting the building out at those numbers? After all, he has an advantage, namely, the acquisitions costs are behind him, and maybe even the mortgage. Aha! It's the renovation costs.

So, to move 10 people into the GS in the mietshäuser syndikat model, the calculations would be:
12,500 + 15000 = 27,500€ cash
72500€ credit
2175€ interest in first year (3%)
29675 / 10 ~= 3000 per person to join


LG
 T.