Fwd: When you'r young : What to start with , with whom , where ?
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Dante-Gabryell Monson
Feb 17, 2010, 6:58:55 AM2/17/10
to bxl4l...@googlegroups.com
Through googling my mails, I find some texts I wrote, related to sharing cocreation of glocalized intentional networks...
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante....@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, May 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Subject: When you'r young : What to start with , with whom , where ? Re: Build up of mutually empowered critical mass of prosumers ?
To:
Great to hear from you Jeff.
hmm , I feel like re-writing some kind of overview , from what I see and experienced in the last years - I have set some phrases into bold character in case you feel like scanning through it.
It could be called , overview of :
" I M YOUNG ,
HAVE AFFIRMED SOME NEGATIVE LIBERTY ,
AND AM DETERMINED TO BUILD OUR MUTUALLY EMPOWERED POSITIVE LIBERTY "
Where , with whom , what to start with ? ...
or towards " using the internet to trans-connect to existing localized intentional networks anywhere. "
//
Hmm , perhaps the first step many of us go through , is to affirm our " NEGATIVE LIBERTY " ,
rejecting what feels meaningless or destructive and what is not intrinsically motivating , what does not make our life worth living for.
And then after going such a process , we might go through a process of finding out what has meaning for us , and what our intentions may be.
And when finding out , there still seems to be a long road towards empowering POSITIVE LIBERTY
//
Here is a little overview , from this point on ...
//
Yes , it feels that out there there is a potentially huge " intentional network " ,
and some of us manage to connect and interact through the net.
Some of us are also gathering into " intentional communities " - such as Arcosanti , Auroville , and many other , smaller EcoVillages , where sometimes the " intentional network " comes and visit the " intentional living community ".
//
Sometimes " intentional networks " gather , through big meet ups - events , whether it are researchers , hackers , sports enthusiasts , music enthusiasts , hitch hikers , etc
yet I am still facing the question :
How to mutually empower intentional networks ,
into creating viable alternative systems , not only in certain areas / eco-villages / communities ,
but anywhere ?
And I guess that in some way or another it is a question many of us may be asking.
//
Hospitality Networks ( such as http://couchsurfing.com . http://hospitalityclub.org , http://bewelcome.org ) have now members from almost every region in the world ,
and in some way it has facilitated , for me , an alternative lifestyle , and sharing all accross europe or the world if I wanted to.
Yet it is not an alternative society by itself , even if it includes many open and trusting individuals.
//
The " cluster " model is becoming more and more popular in the way that businesses think of their development , or at least , their research and development.
I sometimes feel that we are creating some new kind of decentralized business ,
and that it is important for us to see the various resources , in various different fields of solution development , with the various intentional social networks ,
and find ways to more effectively empower each other , develop solutions , experiment , share best practices and multiply them.
I would be interested in facilitating the identification all the different " hubs " , and all the different " intentional social networks " that we could , as a first step , think of collaborating between each other.
The facilitate the emergence of tools so that they can understand or position each others questions , issues , visions , initiatives
and how they can learn together and collaborate
, and offer the same tools for and between individuals.
( some emerging solutions and softwares are being developped in this field - for example :
http://kluster.com/ - and conference platforms such as http://www.ted.com/ are trying to spread some inspiring ideas and gather people arond them )
//
Ecovillages , Schools , Universities , Cooperatives , ... and all kinds of social networks related to some of the intentions being promoted by certain organizations.
//
And I stress " the social networks related to ... " , as I have experienced the huge difference between the social networks related to an organization , and the organization itself , as the power structures of an organization , by my experience , very often promotes its own internal structures of power , sometimes even to the extent of contradicting its own intentions / see for example some of my comments in relation to an organization I have been volunteering with for some time :
http://www.forum.fyeg.org/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=3272c0dc1cf65793791fd7c2d3828f01
//
Offering open and transparent mutually empowered local production and solutions ,
as an alternative to the mainstream , everywhere.
//
Biological farming has and is becoming more and more popular in western europe , yet is now being developed also by big corporations who apply to the conditions for the label ,
but have very different social structures as small biological farms.
I imagine a series of new labels to emerge , and I feel that both producer cooperatives and consumer cooperatives can work hand in hand ,
if and when we can set up the communication channels to facilitate it.
//
As new intentional networks emerge or interconnect , the trust and potential for transactions between them may lead to alternative currencies , empowered by softwares such as http://ripple.sourceforge.net/
//
I am very interested to understand the impact , on their surroundings , of intentional communities.
Do they close themselves on themselves , of do they have a greater reach ?
And what may be the parallels with , for example , monasteries in europe ( or elsewhere in the world ) in the middle ages ?
//
So , yes , its a broad map ... :-)
And to be honest , I do not necessarily know where to start with :-)
//
Some day I feel I should start by touring and connecting schools , the other day I feel like working with cooperatives , another day I feel like creating inter-disciplinary communities of practice around questions between various students from various faculties , another day I feel like I should settle down and try to focus on learning programming - as to program yet one midst other starting points : some kind of mapping system in itself , ...
//
At the same time I feel that my strenght is to bridge networks , people , ideas ,
and push towards some broad trans-visions. Which I feel is what connects many of us.
So sometimes I feel I should connect further with documentary making , ...
//
But ... to start with , I realize I need to find myself a place to come back to , with people awaiting me , ... yet at the same time a place where people tend to converge , a hub.
So often I feel that one of the starting points and connections with the rest is ... a space for gathering people with common synthesis intentions.
A intentional network " base / hub " of very mobile people that connect communities and spread practices , while facilitating processes of awareness raising , mutual learning , experimentation , and solution development. ... ... which again leads me to the same questions - where am I best capable of finding such environment ? While at the same time making some kind of living with it ?
This is my current dilemma :-p
And to find a solution to it , I guess that I m trying to talk about it to people around me , to see who is interested , and what we can do together.
//
When one does not have money / capital , using a nomadic strategy , hopping from one community to another ( one school to another , one cooperative to another , etc ) , feels like an effective way of extending and connecting each others circle of influence ... which can then use its experience and dynamics , to report and further extend its reach through information technologies.
//
But to start with , it feels best to " engaged " with more then our own selves :-)
And somehow , I have found it rather difficult to find partners willing to live without , or with very little money.
//
So there is some kind of turning into circles that needs to be broken -
... some funds need to come from somewhere , following smaller visions that need to be defined , by a small group of very enthusiastic friends.
//
A few years ago , I was thinking about crowdfunding solutions ( old brainstorming : http://oikoumene.coforum.net/OpenWorld ).
Such kind of crowdfunding technical solutions / platforms are now , seemingly , starting to emerge.
( http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/MagicHat , http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/funding )
//
I have met and got in touch with a lot of people in the last years ,
while trying to put together these different pieces of the puzzle , and while trying to find some next " starting point ".
I did not yet find an environment , that suited some of these needs , or more precisely , not an open environment , except here , on the internet.
No organization with power structures was open up enough -
I understand that the solution needs to come from our own interconnections , and if possible , without creating further power structures.
//
From my own experience , Even projects that did not have an organization or official power structures , often ended up creating power structures related to its communication channels and ownership of communication channels.
//
So one of the challenges I see is to be able to create alternative communication channels ,
around specific issues or questions ,
which can be effective , open communities of practice ,
and can facilitate the emergence of a miriad of communities of practice ,
between volunteers , but also between businesses , and paid employees ,
while creating a intrinsically motivating , and meaningful feeling.
//
And for this , the starting point becomes a question , an issue ,
for which we might want to find solutions for together.
//
Hmm , well , this starts to sound like ... Minciu Sodas , or P2P foundation - convergence points , ... :-)
http://www.ms.lt/ - Laboratory of independent thinkers ; http://p2pfoundation.net
//
Then , perhaps the question becomes " What issue to focus on first " ?
And when one realizes they are all inter-connected , perhaps the question , and issue one might have is :
How can we become aware of the inter connections , and benefit more easily from inter-disciplinarity ?
//
Visualizing the relations between the ideas , questions , issues , various resources , and the various different actors in such issues ( including the social networks that are interested in finding solutions to such questions ) ,
as to determine priorities , strategies , and actions between ourselves.
some related links : http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/referencemaps ;
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/visualization , ...
//
Some of the intentional networks I found on the internet , including the one through which I may have connected / got introduced to some of your activities and interests ,
are great , yet they stay in the virtual world , and bridging the individuals related to these communication networks often would mean for me to go and meet them individually , in various different places , or to go to various punctual meet ups accross europe by hitch hiking , which I did.
It has its strenght , but it does not help me that much to really focus and work on a project.
For this I need ( socializing , entrepreneurial and creative ? ) people around me , to which I develop a strong friendship and bound with.
And as I am not a student , I do not have access to the kind of opportunities that certain kind of learning environments offer.
I actually fled the mainstream learning environments ( school , university )
as I felt it was tempering my ... potential to learn , interact , discover , collaborate.
Most often , such mainstream learning environments still function according to a industrial paradigm ,
and very often there is no space , or very little space , for intrinsic motivation to learning to be developped ,
and one needs to be really lucky to have had the opportunity to discover before starting studies , what one is passionnate about.
In a world that is constantly facing new issues , our passion might well be a field that does not exist yet - one we might create.
How can we shift towards more open , trans-disciplinary , multi-environment learning networks and resources , based on CREATION and new initiatives ( mutually questioning , connecting and re-mixing existing knowledge according to needs ) instead of REPRODUCTION of knowledge and practices according to patterns imposed by a curriculum or head teacher.
... although , for university students not to get lost , such approach needs to be implemented from a very early age , building on the natural curiosity and intrinsic motivation for learning of children , instead of oppressing this natural tendency and associating the idea of learning to boding and oppressing reproduction of knowledge and practices.
I collect some links about learning on
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/alternativelearning
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/learning , ...
//
What I do have access to is learning and interacting through the internet - I have been rather successfull in using it.
//
For example , I am now in Helsinki.
My intention was to try to connect to some groups of people and resources related to
http://www.helsinkivirtualvillage.fi/Resource.phx/adc/inenglish/index.htx
and its Art School.
http://www.taik.fi/en/
I know that one of their approaches includes trans-disciplinarity in innovation , urban development ,
and eventually also lifestyles.
Yet I realize it is not easy to connect with other individuals involved in such projects. - or to find our own position in relation to them to further interact and collaborate.
And it is even more difficult to find the people with whom we really get a long with and feel like working with.
In other words , finding opportunities to become friends.
There are some conferences , but they are mostly lectures.
There are some events , but they are punctual in time.
and when adressing myself to the bureaucracy related to such institutions , the answers tend to be that " it does not match with their procedures " - and to match procedures most often does not correspond to my profile , nor even to my objectives.
//
But I have been using another medium : hospitality networks.
Through hospitality networks , I managed to connect with open and friendly people , some of which with whom I share common interests , and that suggested me to come to certain meetings.
Yet , these individuals themselves are most often students , and do not have many resources , or are very busy with their studies and/or work ( to pay their living ) , and can not take further some ideas they feel enthusiastic about.
Although at some point , if they continue their studies , they might have access to a doctoral grant , extend their social networks and access to resources through academia , and collaboration programs between academia and the business world - governmental organizations - non-governmental organizations , ...
Which is great , but still too limited !
//
Alright , this overview can go on and on ...
Now I m faced to finding partners - at a time where I am getting tired of hitch hiking constantly , am not sure how I will finance my food within the next week , and am not sure if I should stay in Helsinki or use my last financial resources to move back to some other city where I may have more chances of finding a job ... :-p
... and I end up being on the net , spending time deepening overviews and relations ,
while knowing that it may not lead much further.
And probably I am not the only one.
By connecting with each other we are trying to create opportunities with each other ,
trying to definine certain issues to work on ,
trying to define projects to apply for resources , ...
and eventually create new solutions and economic resources to re-invest ...
I interacted , over the last years , with many organizations ,
and yet dramatically mutually empowering each other and building outside of status quo is constantly discouraged as long as one faces power structures.
I ve attended courses , many seminars , youth organizations , ...
but what I look forward to does not exist yet.
We are setting the visions , and now its about finding people willing to share visions ,
without falling back into power structures , and while deifning a open framework ,
not only through the internet , but with the internet to connect to existing localized intentional networks anywhere.
... beyond " meet up " :-)
... beyond " a cup of tea " ...
Greetings
Dante
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante....@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, May 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Subject: When you'r young : What to start with , with whom , where ? Re: Build up of mutually empowered critical mass of prosumers ?
To:
Great to hear from you Jeff.
hmm , I feel like re-writing some kind of overview , from what I see and experienced in the last years - I have set some phrases into bold character in case you feel like scanning through it.
It could be called , overview of :
" I M YOUNG ,
HAVE AFFIRMED SOME NEGATIVE LIBERTY ,
AND AM DETERMINED TO BUILD OUR MUTUALLY EMPOWERED POSITIVE LIBERTY "
Where , with whom , what to start with ? ...
or towards " using the internet to trans-connect to existing localized intentional networks anywhere. "
//
Hmm , perhaps the first step many of us go through , is to affirm our " NEGATIVE LIBERTY " ,
rejecting what feels meaningless or destructive and what is not intrinsically motivating , what does not make our life worth living for.
And then after going such a process , we might go through a process of finding out what has meaning for us , and what our intentions may be.
And when finding out , there still seems to be a long road towards empowering POSITIVE LIBERTY
//
Here is a little overview , from this point on ...
//
Yes , it feels that out there there is a potentially huge " intentional network " ,
and some of us manage to connect and interact through the net.
Some of us are also gathering into " intentional communities " - such as Arcosanti , Auroville , and many other , smaller EcoVillages , where sometimes the " intentional network " comes and visit the " intentional living community ".
//
Sometimes " intentional networks " gather , through big meet ups - events , whether it are researchers , hackers , sports enthusiasts , music enthusiasts , hitch hikers , etc
yet I am still facing the question :
How to mutually empower intentional networks ,
into creating viable alternative systems , not only in certain areas / eco-villages / communities ,
but anywhere ?
And I guess that in some way or another it is a question many of us may be asking.
//
Hospitality Networks ( such as http://couchsurfing.com . http://hospitalityclub.org , http://bewelcome.org ) have now members from almost every region in the world ,
and in some way it has facilitated , for me , an alternative lifestyle , and sharing all accross europe or the world if I wanted to.
Yet it is not an alternative society by itself , even if it includes many open and trusting individuals.
//
The " cluster " model is becoming more and more popular in the way that businesses think of their development , or at least , their research and development.
I sometimes feel that we are creating some new kind of decentralized business ,
and that it is important for us to see the various resources , in various different fields of solution development , with the various intentional social networks ,
and find ways to more effectively empower each other , develop solutions , experiment , share best practices and multiply them.
I would be interested in facilitating the identification all the different " hubs " , and all the different " intentional social networks " that we could , as a first step , think of collaborating between each other.
The facilitate the emergence of tools so that they can understand or position each others questions , issues , visions , initiatives
and how they can learn together and collaborate
, and offer the same tools for and between individuals.
( some emerging solutions and softwares are being developped in this field - for example :
http://kluster.com/ - and conference platforms such as http://www.ted.com/ are trying to spread some inspiring ideas and gather people arond them )
//
Ecovillages , Schools , Universities , Cooperatives , ... and all kinds of social networks related to some of the intentions being promoted by certain organizations.
//
And I stress " the social networks related to ... " , as I have experienced the huge difference between the social networks related to an organization , and the organization itself , as the power structures of an organization , by my experience , very often promotes its own internal structures of power , sometimes even to the extent of contradicting its own intentions / see for example some of my comments in relation to an organization I have been volunteering with for some time :
http://www.forum.fyeg.org/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=3272c0dc1cf65793791fd7c2d3828f01
//
Offering open and transparent mutually empowered local production and solutions ,
as an alternative to the mainstream , everywhere.
//
Biological farming has and is becoming more and more popular in western europe , yet is now being developed also by big corporations who apply to the conditions for the label ,
but have very different social structures as small biological farms.
I imagine a series of new labels to emerge , and I feel that both producer cooperatives and consumer cooperatives can work hand in hand ,
if and when we can set up the communication channels to facilitate it.
//
As new intentional networks emerge or interconnect , the trust and potential for transactions between them may lead to alternative currencies , empowered by softwares such as http://ripple.sourceforge.net/
//
I am very interested to understand the impact , on their surroundings , of intentional communities.
Do they close themselves on themselves , of do they have a greater reach ?
And what may be the parallels with , for example , monasteries in europe ( or elsewhere in the world ) in the middle ages ?
//
So , yes , its a broad map ... :-)
And to be honest , I do not necessarily know where to start with :-)
//
Some day I feel I should start by touring and connecting schools , the other day I feel like working with cooperatives , another day I feel like creating inter-disciplinary communities of practice around questions between various students from various faculties , another day I feel like I should settle down and try to focus on learning programming - as to program yet one midst other starting points : some kind of mapping system in itself , ...
//
At the same time I feel that my strenght is to bridge networks , people , ideas ,
and push towards some broad trans-visions. Which I feel is what connects many of us.
So sometimes I feel I should connect further with documentary making , ...
//
But ... to start with , I realize I need to find myself a place to come back to , with people awaiting me , ... yet at the same time a place where people tend to converge , a hub.
So often I feel that one of the starting points and connections with the rest is ... a space for gathering people with common synthesis intentions.
A intentional network " base / hub " of very mobile people that connect communities and spread practices , while facilitating processes of awareness raising , mutual learning , experimentation , and solution development. ... ... which again leads me to the same questions - where am I best capable of finding such environment ? While at the same time making some kind of living with it ?
This is my current dilemma :-p
And to find a solution to it , I guess that I m trying to talk about it to people around me , to see who is interested , and what we can do together.
//
When one does not have money / capital , using a nomadic strategy , hopping from one community to another ( one school to another , one cooperative to another , etc ) , feels like an effective way of extending and connecting each others circle of influence ... which can then use its experience and dynamics , to report and further extend its reach through information technologies.
//
But to start with , it feels best to " engaged " with more then our own selves :-)
And somehow , I have found it rather difficult to find partners willing to live without , or with very little money.
//
So there is some kind of turning into circles that needs to be broken -
... some funds need to come from somewhere , following smaller visions that need to be defined , by a small group of very enthusiastic friends.
//
A few years ago , I was thinking about crowdfunding solutions ( old brainstorming : http://oikoumene.coforum.net/OpenWorld ).
Such kind of crowdfunding technical solutions / platforms are now , seemingly , starting to emerge.
( http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/MagicHat , http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/funding )
//
I have met and got in touch with a lot of people in the last years ,
while trying to put together these different pieces of the puzzle , and while trying to find some next " starting point ".
I did not yet find an environment , that suited some of these needs , or more precisely , not an open environment , except here , on the internet.
No organization with power structures was open up enough -
I understand that the solution needs to come from our own interconnections , and if possible , without creating further power structures.
//
From my own experience , Even projects that did not have an organization or official power structures , often ended up creating power structures related to its communication channels and ownership of communication channels.
//
So one of the challenges I see is to be able to create alternative communication channels ,
around specific issues or questions ,
which can be effective , open communities of practice ,
and can facilitate the emergence of a miriad of communities of practice ,
between volunteers , but also between businesses , and paid employees ,
while creating a intrinsically motivating , and meaningful feeling.
//
And for this , the starting point becomes a question , an issue ,
for which we might want to find solutions for together.
//
Hmm , well , this starts to sound like ... Minciu Sodas , or P2P foundation - convergence points , ... :-)
http://www.ms.lt/ - Laboratory of independent thinkers ; http://p2pfoundation.net
//
Then , perhaps the question becomes " What issue to focus on first " ?
And when one realizes they are all inter-connected , perhaps the question , and issue one might have is :
How can we become aware of the inter connections , and benefit more easily from inter-disciplinarity ?
//
Visualizing the relations between the ideas , questions , issues , various resources , and the various different actors in such issues ( including the social networks that are interested in finding solutions to such questions ) ,
as to determine priorities , strategies , and actions between ourselves.
some related links : http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/referencemaps ;
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/visualization , ...
//
Some of the intentional networks I found on the internet , including the one through which I may have connected / got introduced to some of your activities and interests ,
are great , yet they stay in the virtual world , and bridging the individuals related to these communication networks often would mean for me to go and meet them individually , in various different places , or to go to various punctual meet ups accross europe by hitch hiking , which I did.
It has its strenght , but it does not help me that much to really focus and work on a project.
For this I need ( socializing , entrepreneurial and creative ? ) people around me , to which I develop a strong friendship and bound with.
And as I am not a student , I do not have access to the kind of opportunities that certain kind of learning environments offer.
I actually fled the mainstream learning environments ( school , university )
as I felt it was tempering my ... potential to learn , interact , discover , collaborate.
Most often , such mainstream learning environments still function according to a industrial paradigm ,
and very often there is no space , or very little space , for intrinsic motivation to learning to be developped ,
and one needs to be really lucky to have had the opportunity to discover before starting studies , what one is passionnate about.
In a world that is constantly facing new issues , our passion might well be a field that does not exist yet - one we might create.
How can we shift towards more open , trans-disciplinary , multi-environment learning networks and resources , based on CREATION and new initiatives ( mutually questioning , connecting and re-mixing existing knowledge according to needs ) instead of REPRODUCTION of knowledge and practices according to patterns imposed by a curriculum or head teacher.
... although , for university students not to get lost , such approach needs to be implemented from a very early age , building on the natural curiosity and intrinsic motivation for learning of children , instead of oppressing this natural tendency and associating the idea of learning to boding and oppressing reproduction of knowledge and practices.
I collect some links about learning on
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/alternativelearning
http://del.icio.us/deliciousdante/learning , ...
//
What I do have access to is learning and interacting through the internet - I have been rather successfull in using it.
//
For example , I am now in Helsinki.
My intention was to try to connect to some groups of people and resources related to
http://www.helsinkivirtualvillage.fi/Resource.phx/adc/inenglish/index.htx
and its Art School.
http://www.taik.fi/en/
I know that one of their approaches includes trans-disciplinarity in innovation , urban development ,
and eventually also lifestyles.
Yet I realize it is not easy to connect with other individuals involved in such projects. - or to find our own position in relation to them to further interact and collaborate.
And it is even more difficult to find the people with whom we really get a long with and feel like working with.
In other words , finding opportunities to become friends.
There are some conferences , but they are mostly lectures.
There are some events , but they are punctual in time.
and when adressing myself to the bureaucracy related to such institutions , the answers tend to be that " it does not match with their procedures " - and to match procedures most often does not correspond to my profile , nor even to my objectives.
//
But I have been using another medium : hospitality networks.
Through hospitality networks , I managed to connect with open and friendly people , some of which with whom I share common interests , and that suggested me to come to certain meetings.
Yet , these individuals themselves are most often students , and do not have many resources , or are very busy with their studies and/or work ( to pay their living ) , and can not take further some ideas they feel enthusiastic about.
Although at some point , if they continue their studies , they might have access to a doctoral grant , extend their social networks and access to resources through academia , and collaboration programs between academia and the business world - governmental organizations - non-governmental organizations , ...
Which is great , but still too limited !
//
Alright , this overview can go on and on ...
Now I m faced to finding partners - at a time where I am getting tired of hitch hiking constantly , am not sure how I will finance my food within the next week , and am not sure if I should stay in Helsinki or use my last financial resources to move back to some other city where I may have more chances of finding a job ... :-p
... and I end up being on the net , spending time deepening overviews and relations ,
while knowing that it may not lead much further.
And probably I am not the only one.
By connecting with each other we are trying to create opportunities with each other ,
trying to definine certain issues to work on ,
trying to define projects to apply for resources , ...
and eventually create new solutions and economic resources to re-invest ...
I interacted , over the last years , with many organizations ,
and yet dramatically mutually empowering each other and building outside of status quo is constantly discouraged as long as one faces power structures.
I ve attended courses , many seminars , youth organizations , ...
but what I look forward to does not exist yet.
We are setting the visions , and now its about finding people willing to share visions ,
without falling back into power structures , and while deifning a open framework ,
not only through the internet , but with the internet to connect to existing localized intentional networks anywhere.
... beyond " meet up " :-)
... beyond " a cup of tea " ...
Greetings
Dante
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Jeff Buderer <je...@onevillagefoundation.org> wrote:
Dante,
How are you?
I am at Arcosanti now and it is great to be with a community of people who are actually working to achieve these values.
I do feel I need to live my life in this way.
The complexity of things needs to be addressed and possibly we need to look at this more carefully.
Jeff
From: "Dante-Gabryell Monson" <dante....@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:53 AM
To: hc_ec...@yahoogroups.com, sustainable...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Build up of mutually empowered critical mass of prosumers ?
I felt like writing some additional ideas , in relation to potential developments and projects I see around me , and question myself as to where to converge " physically " while being able to live, and facilitate the ... " Build up of mutually empowered critical mass of prosumers ? " - while not disconnecting ourselves from the city / not fully living in autharcy - but being open to a globalised world , with a capacity for higher levels of mutual empowerment and collaborative creativity.
and how to facilitate the networking and collaboration of organizations , cooperatives , academic institutions , students , ... any individual towards such intentions ?
When the picture is so sythetic and complex , where to start ?
...
a follow up on a previous thread and response which you will find below
-------------
...
I also notice another trend - the urban redevelopment trend around knowledge and creation centers.
this is my main reason for now visiting Helsinki , as there is a urban re-development plan , shifting a declined industrial neighborhood into a art/design/high tech - living , research and development , management , lifelong learning space.
see:
http://www.helsinkivirtualvillage.fi/Resource.phx/adc/inenglish/index.htx
also see another project in the united states :
if you have a good internet connection , you might want to view this very easy to read and informative 10 Mb pdf file :
www.arc.cmu.edu/cmu/rci/PDFs/RCI_Hazelwood2007.pdf
if not , some more google entries related to
Remaking Cities Institute - Carnegie Mellon University's School of Architecture
One of the aims of mine and of many people I end up meeting , along these last years , is to connect further our intentional networks , with a variety of individuals from different backgrounds sharing it , activists , academic institutions, students , organizations , businesses , governmental organizations , representatives , etc
share practices , experiment , increase our credibility through joint projects , increase support and access to a variety of resources , ...
There are a number of very interesting initiatives , in many OECD countries - for example here a japanese practice sharing platform :
http://www.japanfs.org/
Although sometimes it feels simple yet complex , and I doubt strongly that the verbal language tool , even when extended by information technologies , and emails like this one , can be effective enough - i feel more and more that what is needed is new forms of language , some kinds of dynamic mapping into which we can add , position , extract , compare , correct , ...
beyond wiki s , yet including them , extracting available data from the internet , from our environments , and be able to visualize them through some post symbolic visual language.
I am also not surprised to see that many a case , as with the Arabiaranta Helsinki redevelopment project , the central synthetic and creative environment , the convergence space for trans-disciplinarity , are choses to be art universities , or more precisely , art and technology development oriented environments ,
dreaming and designing futures and the relations between all elements , including dreams about new esthetical forms of lifestyle ...
Or am I wrong ? I am perhaps too young to have experienced it , but it seemed that in the end of the 60 ies , the social movements erupted from the humanistic faculties ?
Is this still te case ? I traveled all over europe in the last years , met a lot of students of politics and sociology , and often they would end up being the activist side of the movement , but often in an approach that is " fighting " and not necessarily with new visions.
It feels that Design and Technology Development / Research " clusters " are becoming " fashion and being developed , not necessarily through grassroot movements , but because of the needs and evolution of businesses ( and consumerism ? ) into products that require such solutions.
Which perhaps sounds a bit contradictory to a prosumer spirit ?
Business seems to have been successfull in absorbing the individualist needs of the 68 generation into ... consumerism ? ( I paste below some references to a BBC series of documentaries " The century of the self " ) ,
but will it take further control over current psychological , and potential structural developments ?
Or are we able to create the prototypes that can better deal with complexity and offer alternative modes of organization and lifestyle then the current dominant competitive , consumerist , scarcity creating , individualist models ?
A dilemna I feel is that the resources are still on the side of a capitalistic mode of production and managment.
Organizing ourselves , and connecting between each other , cooperatives , that can facilitate the mutual empowerment of individuals while creating some of the resources they need to live , eventually selling to a broader market , or even creating its own markets ( and own alternative - intentional ? - currencies ? more complex barter systems involving information technologies ? to trade between partners / cooperatives that share common intentions ? )
Can we inspire the creation of a critical mass ?
Where do we start to converge a critical mass ?
With food cooperatives ? With learning practices and school environments ?
I know that its in every different field that we can be active , and spread such socio-cultural memes ,
yet for some of us , it does not feed us yet -
The p2p foundation ( and other platforms and movements ), the convergence of various examples and ideas under the wiki , blog , ning , mailing lists
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
is where we seem to be now.
But how to connect a critical mass ? ... as to empower ourselves with the resources needed ,
without having to be dependent on a capitalistic mode of organization and production ?
----" The Century of the Self "
part 1 ) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2637635365191428174
part 2 ) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614
part 3 ) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811
part 4 ) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036
About " The Century of the Self " :
extract from http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml
To many in both politics and business, the triumph of the self is the ultimate expression of democracy, where power has finally moved to the people. Certainly the people may feel they are in charge, but are they really? The Century of the Self tells the untold and sometimes controversial story of the growth of the mass-consumer society in Britain and the United States. How was the all-consuming self created, by whom, and in whose interests?
some more videos on my blog
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante....@gmail.com> wrote:From: SamuelHi Marco , Michel , Sam , ( cc : Alicia , Marilyn , Steve , Synnove , Andrius , Josef , Franz , Jeff )
yes , I guess that the people that are fully interested in investing themselves in a shift of lifestyle patterns in such kind of approach - pro-suming ( ? ) - form some kind of sub-culture -
The eco-village movement ( such as http://gen.ecovillage.org/ ) might be one such kind of sub culture , although too often I realize they tend to reject information technologies and try to move to some more collectivist structures , going back to the past , trying to escape complexity and live a simple life ,
although there are also some examples of emerging networks , such as
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/
http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?GlobalVillages
and also emerging , existing , communities such as one I know about ( but did not visit up to now ) in the netherlands ,
http://www.eva-lanxmeer.nl/
http://www.changelabproject.org/searchkb1.asp?id=114&action=view&tier=1
http://www.google.fi/search?q=EVA-Lanxmeer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
they also organize a festival ( in dutch - Michel might understand : http://www.c4real.nl/ )
and where an acquaintance of mine met at a ecotopia camp http://eyfa.org/projects/ecotopia ,
"alicia falvey" <aliciafalv - at - gmail.com>, has been ( and still is ? ) very involved in - I also remember she mentionned some other projects in Ireland ? -
I also paste below for Michel an extract in dutch extracted from
http://www.eva-lanxmeer.nl/ :
De wijk EVA-LanxmeerDe Culemborgse wijk EVA-Lanxmeer is een stadswijk, die is gebouwd op basis van gedachtengoed over integrale sociaal-ecologische stedenbouw en permacultuur. In dit gedachtengoed staat de kwaliteit van de leefomgeving centraal, waarvoor de bewoners en bedrijven die er wonen en werken zelf medeverantwoordelijkheid dragen. De inrichting van leefomgeving wordt gekenmerkt door ecologisch bouwen, organische vormgeving en architectuur, afvalwaterzuivering in de wijk, centrale parkeerplaatsen, landschapsarchitectuur, samenhang tussen privé tuin, gezamenlijke tuin en openbaar groen, behoud van cultuurhistorische elementen, ontwikkeling van natuur, biodiversiteit en biologische landbouw.
follow up on " Future of making request " thread :
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2008-May/thread.html
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM, M. Fioretti <mfio...@nexaima.net> wrote:
Just a couple of quick comments right now, I hope to contribute more
later on.
To begin with, the first thing I have thought when I looked at the
visual map is "of all the people I know in *person* (about 1500, I'd
guess, including occasional meetings, and not a few have technical
degrees or PHDs) maybe 50 have already heard about more than one of those
websites or concept. I'm not drawing any conclusion from this yet,
just thought I'd share this feeling.
Secondly, I completely agree with what Patrick wrote and quoted (see
below) and think that the way to go is to not understimate what Samuel
wrote (quoted at the bottom). As I just said, I haven't physically met
yet almost nobody who is or _would_ ever be interested in actively
doing any of the things on that map (I'm not criticizing that view of
the world, just reporting a fact).
But I do know, or see on _mainstream_ TV, more and more people who
already are or want to become "*organized* "consumers", who base their
decisions on ethics", especially in sectors like food and clothes,
without falling in the trap/false solution which is most of the
current fair trade.
I suggest that a society where everybody is an active produser is very
far in the future and may also be an unrealistic expectation and/or a
suboptimal solution, as far as real quality of life is concerned.
Whereas a society where everybody who _wants_ to be a producer can do
it but all citizens are active, responsible purchasers, that is: buy
only what they really need and buy it only from those who do it right
and, as Sam says, "collectively bargain, and put CONDITIONS on what is
purchased based on their own ethics"... well, such a society is much,
much easier to make happen and it would reform production in the right
way anyway, wouldn't it?
Marco
On Fri, May 16, 2008 12:14:04 PM -0600, Patrick Anderson wrote:
> Are produsers really ready to manage their own production? I want
> to think so, but have recently seen some researchers saying the
> opposite.
>
> David Braden says "The most efficient decision making structure to
> have evolved to date is the one employed by business corporations. I
> think we need to design in that same efficiency if we are going to
> build local organizations with the power to balance global
> organizations."
> And Sepp tells us "I just have little faith in our average consumer
> to run a business that they have no clue about (or to make the right
> decisions that will allow a manager to successfully run it)."
Samuel Rose wrote:--
> I think a step that people are ready for right now is to become
> *organized* "consumers", who base their decisions on ethics. To
> collectively bargain, and put conditions on what is purchased based
> on their own ethics (safe for the environment? socially equitable?
> etc) Their information can flow through a "follow/follow" set of
> channels, which actually helps to strengthen the validity of the
> information. These groups can and should release their data about
> what they endorse and do not endorse collectively.
Your own civil rights and the quality of your own life heavily depend on
how software is used *around* you: http://digifreedom.net/
_______________________________________________
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p2pre...@listcultures.org
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Date: Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [p2p-research] Future of making request
Cc: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2pre...@listcultures.org>,
People can learn to collaborate in complex ways, but they have to be part of the "process" in an ongoing fashion, and it doesn't scale up to levels that people are used to from mass-consumption/mass-production systems that are one-way (mostly).
Although, stigmergic collaboration *is* possible, but is most useful for things like sharing data, sharing knowledge, and anything really, that does not require ongoing discourse or social negotiation.
However the actual collaboration required for managing most production will require social negotiation and discourse. It will require collaborators to be involved in "due dilligence", decision making, coordination, discussion with people outside of the collaborative, etc
Yet, at the same time, one can think of *parts* of "production" that can be engaged stigmergically. Imagine, for instance, if I design a solar collector, and release the design under an open license, and make the files available for you to download. Maybe I declare that you would need to be on my "team" to see changes to my solar collector design make their way into the design that I "support". But, let's say you download, change the design, upload your changes to your own server, under the same copyleft license. I look at your design, like what I see, and merge in the changes anyway, without ever talking to you (though I do give you credit).
What about businesses? I think a step that people are ready for right now is to become *organized* "consumers", who base their decisions on ethics. To collectively bargain, and put conditions on what is purchased based on their own ethics (safe for the environment? socially equitable? etc) Their information can flow through a "follow/follow" set of channels, which actually helps to strengthen the validity of the information. These groups can and should release their data about what they endorse and do not endorse collectively.
This same framework could also be engaged by "prosumers". This is already somewhat of a picture of what is emerging right now, except that practically everyone participating is usually also beholden to ongoing debt governments, and debt to corporations, which at least partially locks people into existing social and economic systems.
The question for me is not how people might theoretically participate in a theoretical economic system. Question for me is: what is the best way to begin retrofitting existing systems, to allow people to self-produce those basic subsistence things that they must buy or procure from others, until the majority of basic subsistence problems are solved in a "decentralized" way. Once you solve the problems of basic subsistence for people in a way that does not leave them chained to debt to companies and governments, then they will be ready to change in ways that have them focusing on more advanced social issues.
So, to me, it is health, food production, shelter, personal safety, access to developing knowledge, ability to self produce energy on the individual level, to fabricate technology, to simulate and test, to freely offer products and services, to self-govern, that are the most important for any human, anywhere on the face of the earth. Because, in fact, societies can collapse, so it is not, and increasingly will not always be just a problem of the so-called "developing nations". We'll have the potential for unjust economic and social conditions as long as people remain "jacked-in" to systems that are rooted in scarcity and centralized control.
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