Leipzig - links to streets,photos,prices - buying our use value living infrastructure for 1500 euros

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Dante-Gabryell Monson

未读，
2010年7月21日 06:35:592010/7/21
收件人 ecoho...@googlegroups.com、agile-...@googlegroups.com、econ...@googlegroups.com、bxl4l...@googlegroups.com
I reply to Meinhard's specific questions... ( I cc some small mailing lists of friends, and bcc some more friends )

in relation to the Leipzig Project


which is an approach to enable us to buy flats with 1500 euros in cash,
to buy individual buildings together,
which together can buy entire vacant streets in Leipzig,

and be the first step for a broader Post-Capitalist Wealth Generating Ecology,
owning its own use value and production infrastructures.

---

It is still in a design phase, and you are welcome to edit the wiki pages and make suggestions, getting in touch with me, and meeting at the ecotopia



On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:48 AM, meinhard wrote:


sounds cool. is this some kind of membership in a genossenschaft?

Hi Meinhard,

every ( group of people buying a ) building ideally chooses the type of governance and legal ownership status they want,

but from my point of view,
the ones that join the broader post capitalist cooperative ecology which I am interested in promoting, preferably take an approach which does not enable financial speculation.

So every building is individual,
but they can choose to be part of a larger framework, such as described by Alex


As mentionned ( but perhaps not clearly enough - feel free to edit it )
on the sharewiki page  


as existing model,
for individual buildings,
there is


or there are some other models which could be combined with the syndikat approach of ownership , such as this one I propose :


or others that Alex has been writing about :



 
which
security do the 1.5k give you and how long do you pay the 30 eur for?

well, depends on which model one takes.

if one takes the syndikat model, a Gmbh is set up ( a corporation legal status ), which owns the building, 51 percent by the not for profit of the people that buy it,
and 49 percent by the syndikat.

Setting up the Gmbh costs 25 000 euros , but this seems to be paid by the syndikat.

We met people in Leipzig who bought a building with syndikat.

here is what I remember from it, 
although best is to go into the details yourself via the net ( http://www.syndikat.org/ , most of it is in german ) :

----

I remember that the syndikat pays for the Gmbh part ( 25 000 euros ),
and that they can help you get a loan with an ethical bank ( maximum 3 percent interest ) up to 3/4 credit,

so you need 1/4 of the purchase cost of the building in cash, which for a 60 000 euro building is 15 000 euros,
divided by 10 people, thats 1500 euros.

I calculated that the 45 000 euros credit, divided by 10, 4500 euros, can be paid off in 10 years with ... well... 37,5 euros a month per flat. Without counting the maximum 3 percent interest.  

note : But A building could choose to pay off their loan faster.  I actually imagined that the meta legal framework of the project could facilitate various kind of time frameworks for paying off credits, making sure that buildings are paid off as soon as possible, so that in the event of an economic crisis ( if the credit supply is further contracted ), to be sure that as less as possible buildings would be owned by the bank ( in collateral ) ... but thats still another "model" :)

So... 1/10 of a 600 square meter building owning you 50 square meters of living space in the building. ( without counting the additional 100 square meters of garden space for exmaple, and then the 100 square meters left in the building for stairs and common spaces )

I want to avoid private individual property, and prefer "shares that correspond to 50 square meters", for individual "usership" - but stay ownership of the building till one wants to opt out.

Its up to the people that bought and manage the building together to decide if they want to create an individual flat of 50 square meters, or if they want to combine them.

Hence I imagined this model of governance / usership property, with individual shares loosing value over time ( demurrage ) in certain conditions , as to create specific incentives of keeping it occupied :


-------

If we do not take syndikat, and do not take a loan,
then you pay the entire building cash, which is around 60 000 euros ( some at 30 000 euros or less ), divided by 10 people, thats 6000 euros each.

In that case, its paid off, no credit to pay.

Just yearly taxes and expenses ( a few hundred euros a year each , so potentially 15 to 20 euros per inhabitant per month )



 
who owns the place?

currently, most houses on the street currently mostly owned by 


and after buying, it will be the people that buy the building collectively,
preferably in a way that is owned by another legal entity which is governed by th people that bought it, , such as a cooperative or a not for profit, as to avoid any possibility for reselling beyond price / speculation.

but also related to a meta governance entity for the larger project, and networked with other entities part of the larger project - possibly using "double linking" such as in http://p2pfoundation.net/Holacracy or Sociocracy ( but this needs to be reflected and decided by people themselves )

again - a proposal 
 
google maps link?

visiting places in august.

the street that is available is on



 
photos?

of the street ( including one in color )



although right nearby ( two streets up further north )
there is another street with availability,

such as this building which seems in good condition but a bit more expensive


not too far from this nice neighbourhood with a church



and called after an economist which tried to do similar things as what me and some of our friends are trying to do :


Franz Hermann Schulze-Delitzsch (29 August 1808 - 29 April 1883), German economist, was born at Delitzsch, in Prussian Saxony. The place-name Delitzsch was added in 1848 to distinguish him from other Schulzes in the National Assembly. Schulze was responsible for the organizing of the world's first credit unions.

...

 acting as president of the commission of inquiry into the condition of the labourers and artisans, became impressed with the necessity of co-operation to enable the smaller trades-people to hold their own against the capitalists.


 

m.

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