Fees introduced for government TTCs?

[steve sharra]

Dear Bwalo,

Somebody has posted on facebook an announcement for the 2015 IPTE
intake (teacher education programme intake). The target is 4,000
student teachers.

Of some surprise in the announcement is the mention of fees, to be
communicated during interviews.

Does anybody know about this? How much will the fees be? What kinds of
factors have gone into the decision to introduce fees? I was under the
impression that unlike the universities, introducing fees in the TTCs
would result in nobody applying.

But seeing the large numbers of young people who pass MSCE but cannot
be absorbed into the universities, it's indeed possible that there
will be thousands applying, and they will be capable of paying. It
might also change the attitudes of the student teachers, as paying for
the education will inject more seriousness. I wonder if there will be
mechanisms to give scholarships to candidates who qualify but are
financially incapable of paying.

I'd be interested in hearing from someone familiar with the
discussions going on at DTED and in MoEST around this change.

Steve

--
Blog: http://mlauzi.blogspot.com/
Twitter: @stevesharra
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesharra
Global Voices: http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/author/steve-sharra/
TEDxTalk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-otnO33fMhQ

[symon chiziwa]

This  is an interesting development.  If indeed  fees is to be  introduced,  will it be an economic fee ?  Is it meant to pay for cost of training a teacher? . I fear few candidates will opt for teaching.
Regards
SYMON

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bwalo-la-aphunz...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Roy Hauya]

steve

yes the students should pay fees. the best and most interested will come forward. it could influence the quality of products, increase commitment to work and make colleges better in value. it an chance to screen aggressively too.

roy


--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/12/15, symon chiziwa <schi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [BwalolaAphunzitsi] Fees introduced for government TTCs?
To: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2015, 5:49 PM

[McPherson Jere]

 It is fact that some contribution fees has been introduced and I agree with Roy's views 

Pastor McPherson Jere

P.O Box 31549

Lilongwe 3

+265  994 079 508

+265 888 831 269

[foster gondwe]

Colleagues,

I am also following this development with keen interest. .but I agree
with those who have noted that introduction of fees may bar serious
would be teachers.Ofcourse this causal relationship may need further
understanding. Following are some questions on this: could quality of
teacher training (and the consequent teacher performance) be improved
or compromised as a result of fees introduction? could we realise
higher teachers' retention rate because of fees at training level?


I suggest that one way, we may hypothesize what would happen in our
TTCs (if fees were introduced) by learning from experiences in private
university colleges that also offer teaching courses at a fee. The
above questions may apply. Any insights on the questions Bwalo?

Kind regards,

Foster

[livmwale]

Bwalo,

I do not agree with introducing fees for would be primary school teachers. This is because
1. Malawi has acute shortages of teachers. We are still far much behind in reducing the teacher to pupil ratio. Let's just make it a priority to train teachers at whatever cost.
2. Secondly, how will govt ensure that trained teachers go to rural areas after they have been trained at their own cost?
3. We need committed students, yes, but what about govt commitment of providing services to her citizens. Let's not look at the teachers as the outcome but the children who need teachers to be in their schools.
4. What will change or improve in the teacher training program if fees is introduced?
There are many other ways of improving teacher training in Malawi but in my opinion introducing fees is not one of such ways. Maybe the govt can remove the K5,000. monthly allowance given to students but not making them pay. It's also time to introduce diploma and degree programs for primary school teachers. Our children deserve better and well trained teachers.

Liveness

foster gondwe <foster...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> email to bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsubscribe@googlegroups

[Steve Sharra]

You raise good points, Liv. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to conduct a small study to obtain some empirical data to guide the decision. There has been a push for evidence-based policymaking lately.

Steve

[Abdul-Aziz Yassin]

Liviness,

Cannot agree more with your points.

Kind Regards.

Mac Abdul Aziz Yassin-Msusa

Projects Manager/Head of Education

Mai Aisha Trust

1st Floor, Globe Chambers, Limbe CBD

P. O. Box 5866

Limbe

MALAWI

Tel: +265 1842 215

Mobile: +265 999 861 212

              +265 888 861 212

Web: www.maiasha.com

>>> .
>>>
>>>  Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi..

>>>
>>>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>  Google Groups "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.
>>>
>>>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>  from it, send an email to
>>> bwalo-la-aphunz...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>>  To post to this group, send email to
>>> bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com

>>> .
>>>
>>>  Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi..

[livmwale]

It's true, Steve, we need empirical evidence to guide decision making. And to be included in the data are:
1. Stats of how many teachers have so far been trained through the IPTE program
2. What is the attrition rate esp in terms of resignation
3. How many are still in rural schools? Because they are trained mainly to fill in the gaps in rural schools.

If the data will show positive results from these and many other questions, then introducing fees will be a big disservice to the nation.


Steve Sharra <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

You raise good points, Liv. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to conduct a small study to obtain some empirical data to guide the decision. There has been a push for evidence-based policymaking lately.

Steve

[blessings banda]

Interesting debate indeed. In my opinion i think that fees
introduction cant help in improving training of teachers. This may be
a final blow to those who wouldnt raise fees own their own but have
qualificatons to bcom teachers

On 5/13/15, 'livmwale' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi

[Steve Sharra]

Good points, Liv. We could add the following:

4. A small sample of current IPTE students and their socio-economic status to establish whether they could have managed to pay commercial fees.

5. How many neighbouring countries are charging fees for TE programmes.

I was looking at ESIP II. It has three funding scenarios: High, Medium and Low. High is if donors continue funding. Low is if there's no donor funding. Looks like MoEST has realised we are on the Low scenario already. Under that scenario, some TTCs are anticipated to close, or at least to become inactive.

Hope somebody with inside info can provide more details.

Steve

[Sellina Kanyerere Mkweteza]

Most often hasty decisions are made on TE, despite the presence of DTED, it still seems TE is lagging behind other countries with similar economic woes as Malawi. The calibre of our teachers is often compromised. Closing some of these TTCs will only make thinks worse.

Sent from Sellina

--

[Sellina Kanyerere Mkweteza]

When the study starts count me in.

SKM

Sent from Sellina

Steve

--

[steve sharra]

Come to think of it, that's a good idea. Julie, Benedicto, Limbani?

[mike rambiki]

Dear Steve,

I have followed the debate with keen interest. I thought i join by saying that new things usually bring fears and fears of the unknown. As a teacher trainer, i agree that fees be introduced in the TTC. Reasons:

1. It is very costly NOW to train one teacher. Over K1 million kwacha and not easy for gov esp with

    the economic challenges we are in.

2. Most trainee teachers do not take training seriously. It is free therefore is has low value or valueless.

    They realize the value after they have failed.

3. Even some parents feel teaching is not a good job. They allow their childern to withdraw and join other

    trainings or jobs.

4. Trainees withdraw or simply disappear even half year through to join other courses. Steve, you check

    with the TTCs today you will learn that perhaps over 30 trainees have withdrawn the past 2 weeks and     are joining nursing courses whose results for new intake have been released. They do not regret it

    yet millions of kwacha we should have better utilized is wasted like that. As a trainer and

    administrator I find this very painful, wasting money, efforts and energy. Yet the courses they join are

    even more expensive. So they take teacher training as a waiting bay.

5. Private TTCs charge a fee well over K300,000 and interestingly, many still apply for space in these

    institutions.

6. Whilst I agree that there are Malawians out there who cannot afford the fees (We dont know how     much it is going to be) we are no longer in the era of "FREE" ideology. I remember Professor Lubadiri,     in one of his speeches as chancellor of the University of Malawi said a  quotation "IF YOU THINK     EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, THEN TRY IGNORANCE, YOU WILL SEE HOW MUCH EXPENSIVE     IGNORANCE IS. Domasi college of education was free but students are now paying fees, all health     institutions are paying fees. And many feel that teaching is not worthy paying fees, why? Job for the     poor ?, Less value job?

Ministry of Education is slow in its business more esp in responding to situations. Do you know that TTC is now getting into out sourcing of kitchen? something other institutions like in health,  did years back.

I believe introduction of fees is timely. Think of the principle that the more you invest the more profit you realize. Trainees will be serious knowing that they invested their money, and then we will have quality teachers. 

Mike Rambiki

 

   

[Sellina Kanyerere Mkweteza]

well spoken our very own Mike Rambiki. For some of us who have invested so much passion in Teacher Training, indeed it is a painful scenario to see how at ease the students work, only to be active when they have to receive allowances or when allowances are delayed!!!  Shame!!. I agree with everyone who  supports that it is high time training is paid for.

The same parents cough out thousands of kwachas for course in Nursing, Agriculture, HIV Management, yet they ask their wards to wait at the TTC until they are selected to go to Mzuni or other colleges.

It is during this time that Diploma in Teacher Training at Primary level be introduced as well. So that some students can continue with their education without scrambling for Domasi College who intake is minimal. I hope that those people that are going to make the decisions will not just go to Mangochi or one fancy Hotel and agree on something that they cannot implement for the sake of allowances to enrich themselves. If time of action is NOW, let us DO IT.

Dr. Sellina Kanyerere-Mkweteza

Dr. Sellina Kanyerere-Mkweteza

Chief of Party

Malawi Scholarship Program

World Learning
P.O. Box 30733

Lilongwe

Malawi

skype:sellina.mkweteza

+265 8 88 787 378 (mobile)
+265 1 948 126 (Home)

---

Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 05:47:25 +0000
From: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com
To: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com

[McPherson Jere]

Mike

Bravo

Pastor McPherson Jere

P.O Box 31549

Lilongwe 3

+265  994 079 508

+265 888 831 269

[Abdul-Aziz Yassin]

Mike,

I am with you all the way...

Kind Regards.

Mac Abdul Aziz Yassin-Msusa

Projects Manager/Head of Education

Mai Aisha Trust

1st Floor, Globe Chambers, Limbe CBD

P. O. Box 5866

Limbe

MALAWI

Tel: +265 1842 215

Mobile: +265 999 861 212

              +265 888 861 212

Web: www.maiasha.com

Mike

Bravo

Good points, Liv.. We could add the following:

4. A small sample of current IPTE students and their socio-economic status to establish whether they could have managed to pay commercial fees.

5.. How many neighbouring countries are charging fees for TE programmes.

I was looking at ESIP II. It has three funding scenarios: High, Medium and Low. High is if donors continue funding.. Low is if there's no donor funding. Looks like MoEST has realised we are on the Low scenario already. Under that scenario, some TTCs are anticipated to close, or at least to become inactive.

[Roy Hauya]

mike

i am with you all the way.

you see, unless people invest in what they choose to value, they will value nothing - certainly not free things! there are people out there who cannot afford. yes, that's true of anything that requires money. as the health sector considers user fees, the same argument is used, but check who is patronising private clinics and it will the same people 'who cannot afford'.

i really believe that asking people to pay will contribute to responsibility, accountability and fair value for services. yes, its like going to be baptism by fire for those who have to struggle at first, but the society will adjust and our services will invariably grow qualitatively.

as we move in this direction we have to also think about scholarships, private sector contributions, bursaries. we must think about what the large body of teachers in service or retired can do to alleviate the pressure on highyly qualified and intrinsically motivated young people coming into teaching. how about setting a teacher development foundation!!

roy

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 5/14/15, McPherson Jere <mcpher...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [BwalolaAphunzitsi] Fees introduced for government TTCs?
To: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thursday, May 14, 2015, 8:50 AM

MikeBravo
Pastor
McPherson JereP.O Box 31549Lilongwe
3+265  994 079 508+265 888 831

269

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at
7:47 AM, 'mike rambiki' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi
<bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:
Dear

Steve,I have followed the

debate with keen interest. I thought i join by saying that
new things usually bring fears and fears of the unknown. As
a teacher trainer, i agree that fees be introduced in the
TTC. Reasons:1. It is very
costly NOW to train one teacher. Over K1 million kwacha and
not easy for gov esp with
    the economic challenges we are

in.2. Most trainee

teachers do not take training seriously. It is free
therefore is has low value or valueless.
    They
realize the value after they have failed.
3. Even some
parents feel teaching is not a good job. They allow their
childern to withdraw and join other
   
trainings or jobs.
4. Trainees withdraw or simply disappear
even half year through to join other courses. Steve, you
check    with the TTCs
today you will learn that perhaps over 30 trainees have
withdrawn the past 2 weeks and     are joining
nursing courses whose results for new intake
have been released. They do not regret it    yet millions of kwacha we should have
better utilized is wasted like that. As a trainer and
   
administrator I find this very painful, wasting money,
efforts and energy. Yet the courses they join are
    even
more expensive. So they take teacher training as a waiting

bay.5. Private TTCs charge

a fee well over K300,000 and interestingly, many still apply
for space in these

    institutions.6. Whilst I agree that there are Malawians

fees.5. How many neighbouring countries are

[Roy Hauya]

mike

i am with you all the way.

you see, unless people invest in what they choose to value, they will value nothing - certainly not free things! there are people out there who cannot afford. yes, that's true of anything that requires money. as the health sector considers user fees, the same argument is used, but check who is patronising private clinics and it will the same people 'who cannot afford'.

i really believe that asking people to pay will contribute to responsibility, accountability and fair value for services. yes, its like going to be baptism by fire for those who have to struggle at first, but the society will adjust and our services will invariably grow qualitatively.

as we move in this direction we have to also think about scholarships, private sector contributions, bursaries. we must think about what the large body of teachers in service or retired can do to alleviate the pressure on highyly qualified and intrinsically motivated young people coming into teaching. how about setting a teacher development foundation or trust

roy

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 5/14/15, McPherson Jere <mcpher...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [BwalolaAphunzitsi] Fees introduced for government TTCs?
To: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thursday, May 14, 2015, 8:50 AM

MikeBravo
Pastor
McPherson JereP.O Box 31549Lilongwe

3+265  994 079 508+265 888 831

269

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at
7:47 AM, 'mike rambiki' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi
<bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:
Dear

Steve,I have followed the

debate with keen interest. I thought i join by saying that
new things usually bring fears and fears of the unknown. As
a teacher trainer, i agree that fees be introduced in the
TTC. Reasons:1. It is very
costly NOW to train one teacher. Over K1 million kwacha and
not easy for gov esp with
    the economic challenges we are

in.2. Most trainee

teachers do not take training seriously. It is free
therefore is has low value or valueless.
    They
realize the value after they have failed.
3. Even some
parents feel teaching is not a good job. They allow their
childern to withdraw and join other
   
trainings or jobs.
4. Trainees withdraw or simply disappear
even half year through to join other courses. Steve, you
check    with the TTCs
today you will learn that perhaps over 30 trainees have
withdrawn the past 2 weeks and     are joining
nursing courses whose results for new intake
have been released. They do not regret it    yet millions of kwacha we should have
better utilized is wasted like that. As a trainer and
   
administrator I find this very painful, wasting money,
efforts and energy. Yet the courses they join are
    even
more expensive. So they take teacher training as a waiting

bay.5. Private TTCs charge

a fee well over K300,000 and interestingly, many still apply
for space in these

    institutions.6. Whilst I agree that there are Malawians

fees.5. How many neighbouring countries are

[Paul Chiphanda]

Dear All,
Introduction of fees in TTC is a welcome move. I wished it came many rains ago. Look! which government training is still free? Probably very few. In fact teaching professional must be for those who are willing and are sharp in their heads. Teaching somebody to write, read, comprehend complicated issues is no mean achievement at all. Teaching is not a cheap profession where one can join and leave the boat anytime. I always say that if education is cheap just try ignorance-it's more expensive. Indeed  the I agree totally with my all my energy behind the wisedom of introducing fees in TTCs. Some of the courses which people pay huge sums of money are courses which leave a lot to be desired. I once upon a time was a teacher trainer.

Paul

 Paul Ellimelech Kankhumbwa CHIPHANDA

 District Education Manager (BLANTYRE RURAL)

 Private Bag 11,

 LUNZU.

 BLANTYRE.

 MALAWI

 CENTRAL AFRI I agree wCA.

 PHONE: (265) 0888851805/0999921929/0111901777

 EMAIL  : pekchi...@hotmail.com/pekchi...@gmail.com/btrur...@yahoo.co.uk

 SKYPE  : paul.chiphanda

THE LORD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 05:47:25 +0000
From: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com
To: bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com

[zikani kaunda]

Dear Bwalo,

I totally agree that fees need to be considered BUT I ALSO SAY PUT IN A MECHANISM FOR THE ORPHANS AND VULNERABLE CHILDREN THE VERY SAME TIME YOU ARE INTRODUCING FEES. A survey needs to be done to find out what type of children are leaving the TTCs, who is it that the TTCs are recruiting (you might be surprised that most of them are from well to do families hence the TTCs becoming a waiting bay for them). Let us not be taken with the statistics only but let us also get more data on these students we are talking about. I work with many orphan and vulnerable students from CDSSs from rural areas who long to be teachers but alas - no light for them even after they work very hard and pass MSCE at least with average grades.  

Zikani

[Joseph Mvula]

Bwalo, Mike is right. Two years ago a certain TTC was given about 950students  after selection, only about 870 reported. By the end of first year only about 840 sat for MANEB exams. About 20 more or so withdrew from teaching practice in their second year. What is more humiliating is that some would even withdraw to join Police and Prison Service.  In most countries in the SADC they are now offering diplomas and students pay fees. Students in technical Colleges are paying for bricklaying and secretarial courses, why can't primary school teachers? In Malawi we don't treat free things serously; think of free primary education; think of FISP; think of "malo. odzigulira." Unless there is opportunity cost attached to teacher training people would still treat teaching as a sort of economic relief to school leavers, not as a pofession. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"'mike rambiki' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" <bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com> Date:Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:47

[Chikondi Mpokosa]

Dear Colleagues,

TTCs are a tertiary Education centres and must be treated as such. Tertiary Education benefits more the individual than the children. The certificate makes the person/ teacher employable so they must foot the bill. I was involved in a campaign to have the TTCs opened in 2000/01 when they were closing most of the times and the root cause was that there was no funding for running  costs such as food accommodation and such stuff. Even transport for trainees was being paid for to and from the colleges. I understood then that that could not be sustained, that's why I think  it should be fee paying.

I also take cognisance of the fact that there would be dedicated trainees that would not afford the fees, these should be allowed to be trained on a bond that they would be placed in rural schools and teach a certain number of agreed years before they can disengage from teaching profession. In that case it's the MoEST that would be in charge for this system.

The fee system should not be cost recovery because it would be unaffordable but contributory with government subsidising.

Ndine Chikondi

Sent from my chikopad

[Henri Chilora]

Very good points you have raised, Mike. I agree with you. Students in TTCs should pay fees

Henri

Sent from my iPhone

[Denis Chalera Kalekeni]

I wish to agree with Liveness in my own personal right and capacity and not necessarily expressing the views of TUM.

There is a question posed that needs to be responded. "Will there be scholarships for those well deserved 'would be teachers' who may not have the capacity to pay for the Teacher Training fees? Secondly, does it require empirical evidence to justify that most of the school leavers who opt for the teacher Training are those coming from the non elite? I have been supporting two Teacher Training students on ODL 8 coming from financially incapacitated families who would not even manage to provide for their transport back and from college. In fact a father of one of the two, who was initially a tailor, got blind after being heavily hit by hypertension and the mother is merely a house wife who has now an enormous task to fend for the husband. These are realities and I therefore do not see children coming from poor families in Malawi getting employed in the teaching profession if this policy is put to its effect. In the long run the profession will be infested with passers by, who will of course manage to pay the fees, only to take the teaching profession as a stepping stone. In any case, how would you be charging for a training of a profession whose conditions of service are far much away from any single attraction? May be Kenyan or Zambian Teacher Training programs, but obviously not this one.

Regards,

 

Denis Chalera Kalekeni
SECRETARY GENERAL

Teachers Union of Malawi
Aphunzitsi Centre
Plot No. 37/14 & 15
Private Bag 11
Lilongwe
Malawi

Tel        :    +265 (0) 1 727 302
            :    +265 (0) 1 727 301
Fax       :    +265 (0) 1 727 302
Cell       :    +265 (0) 999 100 013
                  +265 (0) 888 852 058
Email     :    kaleke...@yahoo.com
                  t...@sdnp.org.mw

TUM! Promoting Teachers' Welfare through Advocacy & Collective Bargaining.
"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER"

>>>> bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>
>>>>  To post to this group, send email to
>>>> bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>  Visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi.
>>>>
>>>>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>  Google Groups "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.
>>>>
>>>>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>  from it, send an email to

>>>> bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>
>>>>  To post to this group, send email to
>>>> bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>  Visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi.
>>>>
>>>>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an
>>>> email to bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsubscribe@googlegroups
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email to bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> To post to this group, send email to bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bwalo-la-aphunzitsi.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bwalo-la-aphunzitsi+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Mzondi W.J. Moyo]

Much as i agree that we cannot continue to have everything for free. It really would be a big planning gap if there would be no bursaries. Emperical evidence is plenty that most teachers or would be teachers come from simple and poor families. Often these individuals are the first family movers Mzondi

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"'Denis Chalera Kalekeni' via Bwalo la Aphunzitsi" <bwalo-la-...@googlegroups.com> Date:Sat, 16 May, 2015 at 22:13