vakyArtha jnAnAt mokshah: looking for a clear explanation.

[Krishna Kashyap]

Namaskar to everyone.

I am teaching an overview of Sri Shankara bhashya on Gita in my class now. Some fundamental ideas are being discussed.

One issue came up:

vAkhyArtha jnAnAt moksha: tatvam asi etc.

in verse 2.21:

https://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/srimad?language=dv&field_chapter_value=2&field_nsutra_value=21&scsh=1&scanand=1&scms=1&etsiva=1&etgb=1&setgb=1&etssa=1&etassa=1

When I looked into SacchidAnandendra Swami explanations footnote 3 below at the end of this page. it says: Sri Shankaracharya did not agree with the people who believed that once the maha vakyas are understood (vAkyArtha jnAna), they have to still do "dhyana" etc. Meaning: it is sufficient to understand the meanings of the mahAvAkyas.

see below. I am trying to find a clear analysis of what Advaita (Sri Shankaracharya and post Shankara teachers) says about this topic of vAkyArtha jnAnAt moksha. 

The Clear view I have got from my teachers is: The heart of all the 3 major matha traya sthApaka acharyas were one . Their languages and methods differ 

and mod

Can anyone please help me find a clear analysis of this topic, as per experts in Advaita?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

[V Subrahmanian]

Namaste

The question you have raised on 'vaakyartha jnaanaat mokshaH' is about this:  (from the Gita Bhashya to 2.21)

//अग्निहोत्रादिविध्यर्थज्ञानोत्तरकालम् अग्निहोत्रादिकर्म अनेकसाधनोपसंहारपूर्वकमनुष्ठेयम् कर्ता अहम् मम कर्तव्यम् इत्येवंप्रकारविज्ञानवतः अविदुषः यथा अनुष्ठेयं भवति न तु तथा न जायते इत्याद्यात्मस्वरूपविध्यर्थज्ञानोत्तरकालभावि किञ्चिदनुष्ठेयं भवति किं तु नाहं कर्ता नाहं भोक्ता इत्याद्यात्मैकत्वाकर्तृत्वादिविषयज्ञानात् नान्यदुत्पद्यते इति एष विशेष उपपद्यते। यः पुनः कर्ता अहम् इति वेत्ति आत्मानम् तस्य मम इदं कर्तव्यम् इति अवश्यंभाविनी बुद्धिः स्यात् तदपेक्षया सः अधिक्रियते इति तं प्रति कर्माणि संभवन्ति। स च अविद्वान् उभौ तौ न विजानीतः इति वचनात् विशेषितस्य च विदुषः कर्माक्षेपवचनाच्च कथं स पुरुषः इति। तस्मात् विशेषितस्य अविक्रियात्मदर्शिनः विदुषः मुमुक्षोश्च सर्वकर्मसंन्यासे एव अधिकारः। //

There were some Vedantins who held that even after having obtained the avidya-dispelling aparoksha jnanam that 'I am akartaa/abhoktaa Brahman', one will have to continue to perform one's ordained varna ashrama duties till death. Only then he will be really liberated.  It is not sufficient to be merely equipped with aparoksha jnana arising from the mahavakya.   This group is termed 'jnana-karma samucchaya vaada'.   Shankara has argued, in the above bhashya part of the same shloka that such is not the case. Karma is ordained only to him who has the ignorance-based notion that he is a doer, kartaa. Hence, karma like agnihotra is ordained to an ajnani.  But the knowledge that arises from the mahavakya dispels the ignorance that gave rise to the idea that one is a doer.  So, it is impossible to the Jnani to perform any action as  a result of his direct conviction that he is not the doer.  This is the essence of the issue you have raised.

The other point made by the Swamiji in the footnote is not related to the above. For a person to whom aparoksha jnana has arisen as a result of the application of the Mahavakya, there is no question of the need to engage in dhyana in order to attain something else.  However, in the case of those for whom the aparoksha jnana has not arisen, Shankara has very clearly stated in the Brahma sutra bhashya that reiteration, aavritti, of the purport of the mahavakya has to be undertaken till the aparoksha jnana arises.  

BSB 4.1.2   ಉತ್ತಮಾಧಿಕಾರಿಗೆ ಒಂದು ಸಲ ತತ್ತ್ವಮಸಿ ಎಂದು ಉಪದೇಶವಾಗಲು ಬ್ರಹ್ಮಾತ್ಮಾನುಭವ ಆಗುತ್ತೆ. ಯಾರಿಗೆ ಹಾಗೆ ಆಗುವುದಿಲ್ಲವೂ ಅವರಿಗೆ ಆವೃತ್ತಿ ಆವಶ್ಯಕ. ಅವರಿಗೆ ಈ ಆವೃತ್ತಿಯಿಂದ ಅನುಭವವಾಗುತ್ತೆ.  ‘तत्त्वमसि’ (छा. उ. ६ । ८ । ७) इति सकृदुक्तमेव ब्रह्मात्मत्वमनुभवितुं शक्नुयात् ; यस्तु न शक्नोति, तं प्रति उपयुज्यत एव आवृत्तिः । तथा हि च्छान्दोग्ये — ‘तत्त्वमसि श्वेतकेतो’ (छा. उ. ६ । ८ । ७) इत्युपदिश्य, ‘भूय एव मा भगवान्विज्ञापयतु’ (छा. उ. ६ । ८ । ७) इति पुनः पुनः परिचोद्यमानः तत्तदाशङ्काकारणं निराकृत्य, ‘तत्त्वमसि’ इत्येवासकृदुपदिशति ; तथा च ‘श्रोतव्यो मन्तव्यो निदिध्यासितव्यः’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ५ । ६) इत्यादि दर्शितम् ।......यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः ।

 

BSB ..4.1.2 ಪದಾರ್ಥಜ್ಞಾನವಿದ್ದರೆ ಮಾತ್ರ ವಾಕ್ಯಾರ್ಥಜ್ಞಾನ    एष व्यावृत्तसर्वसंसारधर्मकोऽनुभवात्मको ब्रह्मसंज्ञकस्तत्पदार्थो वेदान्ताभियुक्तानां प्रसिद्धः ; तथा त्वंपदार्थोऽपि प्रत्यगात्मा श्रोता देहादारभ्य प्रत्यगात्मतया सम्भाव्यमानः चैतन्यपर्यन्तत्वेनावधारितः ; तत्र येषाम् एतौ पदार्थौ अज्ञानसंशयविपर्ययप्रतिबद्धौ, तेषां ‘तत्त्वमसि’ इत्येतद्वाक्यं स्वार्थे प्रमां नोत्पादयितुं शक्नोति, पदार्थज्ञानपूर्वकत्वाद्वाक्यार्थज्ञानस्य — इत्यतः, तान्प्रति एष्टव्यः पदार्थविवेकप्रयोजनः शास्त्रयुक्त्यभ्यासः ।9. ..4.1.2   येषां पुनः निपुणमतीनां न अज्ञानसंशयविपर्ययलक्षणः पदार्थविषयः प्रतिबन्धोऽस्ति, ते शक्नुवन्ति सकृदुक्तमेव तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थम् अनुभवितुमिति, तान्प्रति आवृत्त्यानर्थक्यमिष्टमेव ; सकृदुत्पन्नैव हि आत्मप्रतिपत्तिः अविद्यां निवर्तयतीति, नात्र कश्चिदपि क्रमोऽभ्युपगम्यते ।  

I think the above is sufficient to give a clear picture.

regards

subrahmanian.v 

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[Krishna Kashyap]

namaskara,

I still want to talk to you. Can we talk sometime tomorrow?

aavvritti is not exactly upAsana right?

I want to know where Sri Shankaracharya talks about upasana anavashyaka if one does aavvritti alone.

further, where is the original from which you have quoted BSB below?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Gudsoorkar A G]

Dear Dr Subrahmanian,

Can you pl tell me whether the English portion of your post is exact translation of the Sanskrit original? Thanks.

-Ashok G.

Sent from my iPhone

and mod<image.png>

Can anyone please help me find a clear analysis of this topic, as per experts in Advaita?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 9:32 AM 'Gudsoorkar A G' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Subrahmanian,

Can you pl tell me whether the English portion of your post is exact translation of the Sanskrit original?

No, I had given the gist.

regards 

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[M V S Siva Prasad]

कर्मिणो विनिवर्तन्ते निवर्तन्ते उपासका:।

ज्ञानिनो न निवर्तन्ते इति वेदांतडिंडिम: ।।

Krishna kashyap sir I feel this verse vedanta didima tells that shankaracharya prefers jnana than upasana .

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[BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

1. Very  rightly said.  < The Clear view I have got from my teachers is: The heart of all the 3 major matha traya sthApaka acharyas were one . Their languages and methods differ>.  

 

2. The < language difference> yields to  instruction methods for meditation practice < upaasanaa – uapdesha -bhinnataa> by  end goal posited through the siddhanta. When ‘Yoga’ part of ‘Yoga-Vedanta’ is disconnected, the outcome is ‘Vedanta as a cerebral exercise, lacking the practice-feet’. Mere practice without knowledge is ‘ blind walking with a lamp and without a  cane’.

 

3. Siddhanta referencing leads to ‘interpreted’  construction of  ‘(veda)Vakya-( Darshana -Shruti- vakya)’  for Vyakhyaana/ Vaada- Jijnyasa.

 

4. Siddhanta analytics leads to Jijnyasa – Meemaamsaa of < tattva- artha – taatparya – uddesha  - darshana> for <Sadhaka- upadesha>.

 

5. Samanvaya is for consolidation of thought. It is not necessarily for steam rolling a single point of view to the exclusion of other.

 

6. The purpose of ‘Samanvaya’  ( harmonized critical construction)  is for ‘Samucchaya’ ( Balanced Healthy growth and spiritual progress).

 

 

7. Example-1:   vAkhyArtha jnAnAt moksha   --  Steps involved in ‘Vakyaarthajnana’ before yielding the end goal of ‘ Moksha’ [ from What ? The ‘bounded nature, saantataa)

 

1. ‘Vakya’ (= Mantra, Veda) is  manifestation of ‘ Vak- Darshana’.
2. ‘Vak-Darshana’  is a result of Vak-yoga -abhyasa/ siddhi’.
3. ‘Vakya’ – used for  upaasanaa’  is  received through ‘upadesha’ and practiced through ‘yoga-sadhanaa’ .
4. When the practice matures, ‘Vakya’ unveils its ‘ Vak-svaroopa’/ Vak-atma’:  See Rig- mantra: uta tvah pashyan, na dadarsha vacham, uta tvah shrunvan  na shrunotyenam, uto tvasmai tanvam visasre,  jaayeva patya ushatee  suvaasaah’. Also see Bhartruhari : Shabda-brahmani nishnaatah, param-brahma adhigacchati;   Vedah  Shivah – Shivo Vedah.
5. When ‘vakya’ through practice, yields to ‘Vak-darshana’, the purpose (Artha/ meaning/  modus operandi and serving as a means to moksha), the phase of ‘Vakyaartha’ will be over.
6. Post ‘Vakyaartha’, the further transcendence ( yato vacho nivartante…. Seeking the Vak-moola), the saadhaka experientially realizes/ experiences ( = Jnaa-  avabodhane) the moksha – the total freedom from the ‘ Naama-roopa-prakriyaa’ bandhana.

 

With this, ‘Vakyaartha-jnaana’  ends in ‘ moksha’, from where there is no return (ज्ञानिनो न निवर्तन्ते ). Because that is the transcendence of ‘Veda-Vak/ Veda-Vakya/ Mantra Vakya’ to its ‘ Sarva-Moola -sva-roopa’. This is the high claim of the final frontier of Veda. ( इति वेदांतडिंडिम ) .

 

8. Example-2:   tatvam asi – One more way to understand : Each acahrya picks one or more aspects by context.

 

1. Tat -asi : That is ( existential reality  and experienceable, expression amenable =  sat, anubhava gochara,  naama-roopa-vachaneeya)
2. Tvam-asi : You are ( existential reality, self-experienceable, self-identified with a universal expression  =  sat, sva-samvedya -anubhava gochara,  svaabhijna-   asmat/ yushmat -pratyaya -sarva-naama-nirdeshya /bodhya )

 

3. Tattvam -asi : You are the essential principle ( Knowledge experienceable, expression amenable =  Jnanam, Prajnanam, Jnaatmaa)

 

4. Tvam -tat -asi : You are that (existential essential identity, in duality,  experienceable =  sat, satyam, abhinnam, yuktah, sampruktah )

 

5. Tat- tvam-asi: That is /was/ will be You. ( The  real eternality and eternal connection of That  to ‘This/ You / I’ – tasmat  sarvagatam Brahma, Satyam, Jnanam, Anantam ).

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

and mod

 

 

Can anyone please help me find a clear analysis of this topic, as per experts in Advaita?

 

Best Regards,

 

Krishna Kashyap

 

 

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