Alternatives to the phrase 'Rest in Peace'

[shankara]

Pranams,

We find that Indians largely use the phrase 'May his/her soul rest in Peace' or simply 'RIP' when someone passes away, without bothering about the cultural connotations of the above phrases. The present generation is so much alienated from their own culture that they are ignorant of the concepts of Atma, Paraloka, Moksha, Punarjanma, etc.

Though a discussion on this topic was initiated by Prof. Paturiji sometime back (link here), unfortunately there was not much response from esteemed members of BVP at that time.

I humbly request all scholars to suggest alterative phrases in line with Indian culture and tradition, that could be used in place of 'RIP'.

regards
shankara

[Nagaraj Paturi]

I have been suggesting सद्गतिप्राप्तिरस्तु as the alternative. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[S Venkatraman]

Dear Sir,

Please find below a quote from Francois Gautier on the subject under reference and other related matters:

QUOTE

Ten Things a Hindu Can Do While Using English Language: - written by Francois Gautier (check his Facebook page. He knows more Hinduism than many of us)

1. Please stop using the term "God fearing" - Hindus never ever fear God. For us, God is everywhere and we are also integral part of God. God is not a separate entity to fear.

2. Please do not use the meaningless term "RIP" when someone dies. Use "Om Shanti", "Sadgati" or "I wish this atma attains moksha/sadgati /uttama lokas".  Hinduism neither has the concept of "soul" nor its "resting". The terms "Atma" and "Jeeva" are, in a way, antonyms for the word "soul".(to be understood in detail)

3. Please don't use the word "Mythology" for our historic epics (Itihas) Ramayana and Mahabharata.  Rama and Krishna are historical heroes, not just mythical characters.

3. Please don't be apologetic about idol worship and say “Oh, that's just symbolic". All religions have idolatry in kinds or forms - cross, words, letters (calligraphy) or direction. Also let's stop using the words the words 'idols', 'statues' or 'images' when we refer to the sculptures of our Gods. Use the terms 'Moorthi' or 'Vigraha'. If words like Karma, Yoga, Guru and Mantra can be in the mainstream, why not Moorthi or Vigraha? 

4. Please don't refer to Ganesh and Hanuman as "Elephant god" and "Monkey god" respectively. You can simply write Shree Ganesh and Shree Hanuman. 

5. Please don't refer to our temples as prayer halls. Temples are "devalaya" (abode of god) and not "prarthanalaya" (Prayer halls).

6. Please don't wish your children "black birthday" by allowing  them to blow off the candles that are kept on top of the birthday cake. Don't throw spit on the divine fire (Agni Deva). Instead, ask them to pray: "Oh divine fire, lead me from darkness to light" (Thamasoma Jyotirgamaya) by lighting a lamp. These are all strong images that go deep into the psyche.

7. Please avoid using the words "spirituality" and "materialistic". For a Hindu, everything is divine. The words spirituality and materialism came to India through evangelists and Europeans who had a concept of Church vs State. Or Science vs Religion. On the contrary, in India, Sages were scientists and the foundation stone of Sanatan Dharma was Science.

9. Please don't use the word "Sin" instead of "Paapa". We only have Dharma (duty, righteousness, responsibility and privilege) and Adharma (when dharma is not followed).  Dharma has nothing to do with social or religious morality. 'Papa' derives from Adharma. 

10. Please don't use loose translation like meditation for "dhyana" and 'breathing exercise' for "Pranayama". It conveys wrong meanings. Use the original words. 

Remember, the world respects only those who respect themselves!

UNQUOTE

Regards,

Venkat

Sent from my iPhone

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[nkswaran]

Vedic lore has this : ये युध्यन्ते प्रधनेषु शूरासो ये तनुत्यजः ।  ये वा सहस्रदक्षिणास्तांश्चिदेवापिगच्छतात् ॥

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[shankara]

Sundareswaranji,

Thanks for providing an apt quote from the Vedic literature. But, it would be good to get quotes that are simpler and easy to use.

regards
shankara

--

[shankara]

Paturiji,

Thanks for suggestiing a very  simple and easy to use alternative to RIP. I request scholars to suggest more such altrenative expressions that can be used for condolence.

regards
shankara

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[K S Kannan]

How about ANS?:

agne naya supathA

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[shankara]

Kannanji,

Thanks. This Isavasya quote is short and simple, but we will have to explain its meaning. Could you please provide a simple explanation for common man, if your time permits?

regards
shankara

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Recently I said sadgatipraaptirastu as my expression/wish in response to the demise of a Chicago university professor of Pali, Prof. Steve Collins. 

There was an offline message from Prof. David Riegle  as follows:

Dear Prof. Paturi,

I was very glad to see you write "Sadgatipraaptirastu" at the end of your email, rather than "May his soul rest in peace." While I must respect the kind intentions of those who say "Rest in peace," it has always seemed strange to me. Thank you for using this far more appropriate phrase. I did not know of it. This is especially appropriate for those who believe in rebirth, as Steven Collins probably did.

With best regards,

David Reigle

Prof. David Reigle loves Buddhism that he studies extensively thoroughly. 

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[K S Kannan]

Paturi's suggestion is a good one.

[Dr. Laxmi Khatiwada]

we can use श्रद्धाञ्जलि instead of RIP.

Regards

Dr. L Khatiwadaa

[shankara]

Namaste,

Thank you. श्रद्धाञ्जलि is a good alternative.

I was thinking of compiling all such alternatives in some place in public domain, where it would be accessible to all (in addition to BVP). So, I request again for more such phrases (they need not be in Sanskrit only, phrases in regional languages are also welcome).

regards
shankara

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[K S Kannan]

The concluding chapter of manusmRti provides a grand and panoramic vision of life as a whole

- across, that is, the births past and future.

And suggesting a primary and vital motive of all action, it says there (12.23)

... dRs"TvA jIvasya gatIH ....

There is also the concept of "gati-cintana" regularly used in respect the post-mortem obsequies.

Further, the Lord characterises himself in the gItA as 

"gatir bhartA prabhus sAks"I nivAsas' s'araNam suhRt".

Whether we intend the jIva to reach the Lord Himself in respect of an extraordinary life led, 

or conceive of its itinerary in particular loka-s (and further yoni-s if any) as per its deserts,

the expression gati fits them all as a dignified cover term.

In the light of all these, I find the expression sad-gati for the departed as quite appropriate.

[K S Kannan]

I missed adding 

karmajA gatayo nRRNAm (12.3)

right there.

[shankara]

Kannanji,

There is not doubt that Paturiji's suggestion is quite good, simple and easy to remember. Still, considering the sukti, 'भिन्नरुचिर्हि लोकः', it would be good to have multiple phrases for this purpose, so that peopel can choose from them.

regards
shankara

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[V Subrahmanian]

In the Bhagavadgita 2nd ch. we have this phrase:   स शान्तिमाप्नोति न कामकामी ॥   This is the most exalted state that a human can attain. So, while expressing condolence one can modify the above to  स शान्तिमाप्न्युयात्  or if we want the same phrase to be gender inclusive, can say:  शान्तिमाप्न्युयादसौ. This 'shanti' is popular in Upanishads too.  तमात्मस्थं येऽनुपश्यन्ति धीरास्तेषां शान्तिः शाश्वती नेतरेषाम्   kaThopanishat. Actually the RIP is not completely unfriendly to us. We can suitably modify that as per the above suggestion. 

In Tamizh one can have: அவர் பேரின்பப் பெரு வாழ்வு பெருக. (avar pErinbap peru vaazhvu peruka). இறைவனடி சேர்க [Let him attain the Lord's feet']

regards

[shankara]

Subbuji,

Thanks for suggesting alternatives to RIP.

Vedantic concept of शाश्वती शान्तिः and the 'Peace' in 'RIP' are not the same. Christians believe that the soul will lie in the coffin till the Day of Judgment when the Lord will awaken all souls and send the believers to the Heaven and the non-believers to the Hell. The phrase RIP is based on the above belief.

regards
shankara

[K S Kannan]

I fully agree with 'Shankara'-ji, and Subrahmnian-ji.

It is because of the bhinna-ruci idea that attainment of specific loka-s were mentioned

(as governed, too, though by the karman-s of the jIva-s.

And co-planar with s'As'vatI s'Anti, 

s'As'vatam sukham was also mentioned in the sam strain in the upanis"ad-s.

"RIP" looks simple and desirable, but as 'Shankara'-ji shows,

it is laden with the Abrahamic assumptions 

and shadowed by their apprehensions

that do not have a proper match with our conceptualisations and visions.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[V Subrahmanian]

There is a common Kannada expression which can be used for this purpose too: ಅವರಿಗೆ ಸುಖ ಶಾಂತಿ ಸಿಗಲಿ.  ಅವರು ಸುಖ ಶಾಂತಿ ಹೊಂದಲಿ. [Let him/.her attain happiness and peace.] ಅವರು ಪರಂ-ಧಾಮವ  ಹೊಂದಲಿ (Let him attain the Param dhAma). A variation will be: ಅವರು ಪರಮ ಪದವ ಸೇರಲಿ. (Let him reach the Parama Pada].   

[Nagaraj Paturi]

sadgati includes:

svargapraapti

uttamalokas

moksha

uttamapunarjanma

sukhapoorvaka(paraloka)yaatraa etc. 

It is realistic to wish sadgati of different levels for different levels of personalities. 

For the uninitiated/uninformed, s'aanti may create confusion with communicate the same as peace of the Abrahamics. 

gati is journey and the destination/ point reached both. 

resting is static. 

gati is dynamic. 

gati highlights the distinction from the Abrahamic. 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

sadgati includes:

svargapraapti

uttamalokas

moksha

uttamapunarjanma

sukhapoorvaka(paraloka)yaatraa etc. 

It is realistic to wish sadgati of different levels for different levels of personalities. 

For the uninitiated/uninformed, "s'aanti" may create confusion with or communicate the same as - "peace" of the Abrahamics. 

gati is journey and the destination/ point reached both. 

resting is static. 

gati is dynamic. 

gati highlights the distinction from the Abrahamic. 

[Prabhu]

Shankara-ji Very apt topic indeed.

RIP usage is a poster child of our peoples'  "mindless eclecticism".  May "RIP" RIP !

प्राप्नोतु सद्गतिं ध्रुवं  prApnotu sadgatiM dhruvaM 

hopefully  is not a mouthful :-)

I find "sadgati" very appropriate (and do use it... apart from हरिपदं  and परमं पदं )

especially given sadgati is a shrI naama of bhagavAn:

सद्गतिः सत्कृतिः सत्ता सद्भूतिः सत्परायणः

...

Also any of BG 2.17  -  2.30 may be invoked appropriately in such a shoka samaya.

-Prabhu

[Ram Kumar Krishnan ராம குமரன்]

I would suggest May they attain Moksha

--

[Vishal Agarwal]

I use the phrase, "May his/her atma attain Sadgati. Om Shanti!" 

I borrowed it from someone and have seen it being used increasingly in social media now. It uses Hindu terms like atma, sadgati and Om and I think the phrase is very meaningful to me and to the average Hindu.

Vishal

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

[Subodh Bhat]

RIP actually includes Indian concept that Atma does not die, but only the body. It also implies the Indian concept of Punar-Janma! 

--

K, Subodh Bhat

Vision Automation

#1281, 33rd Cross,

Kumaraswamy Layout,

Bangalore 560078, India

 

TeleFax:+91-80-26609765

Mob: +91-9845756611

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Subodh Bhat-ji,

> It also implies the Indian concept of Punar-Janma!  

----- It does not imply punar janma. resting is lack of mobility. punar janma is mobility.   

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

K, Subodh Bhat

Vision Automation

#1281, 33rd Cross,

Kumaraswamy Layout,

Bangalore 560078, India

 

TeleFax:+91-80-26609765

Mob: +91-9845756611

 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[shankara]

Namaste,

This reminds me of a re-interpretation of RIP, that I saw on Twitter - 'Reincarnate in Peace'.

regards
shankara

[shankara]

Vishalji,

Thanks for your response. This phrase is most suitable for those who are not familiar with Sanskrit.

regards
shankara

[shankara]

Prabhuji,

Thanks for suggesting an alternative of RIP. It is always good to have more options.

regards
shankara

[Nagaraj Paturi]

One other misunderstanding that is implied in most of these misunderstandings of the phrases such as  RIP is inability to see the difference between aatman, sookshma s'areera, linga/kaaraNa s'areera etc. 

The word used is also aatmaa, aatmaa. aatmaaen, aatmaaon etc. 

Soul is the English equivalent in mind. 

Soul is near equivalent of sookshmas'areera not aatman. 

Those which are shown in movies as haunting etc. or those which are shown as talking as the mirror images of characters etc. are not aatman. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

K, Subodh Bhat

Vision Automation

#1281, 33rd Cross,

Kumaraswamy Layout,

Bangalore 560078, India

 

TeleFax:+91-80-26609765

Mob: +91-9845756611

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Chandrasekar B]

The concept of RIP is incorrect. What is resting in peace?

Body? Body will be cremated and will become one with nature anyway even without these wishes of RIP

Soul? Soul is already in peace.

Regards

Chandrasekar

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.