Mahabharata -- which critical edition is more complete?

[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

There is critical edition of Mahabharata produced by Bhandarkar
Oriental, Pune, and is now available in searchable devanagari etc.
html formats on sanskrit documents website.

Another searchable edition of Mahabharata is available on gretil website at:
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/2_epic/mbh/mbh_13_u.htm
etc.


However, I found that some verses available on gretil edition are
missing in BORI edition. For instance the famous verse:
13,135.142d*0639_03 ākāśāt patitaṃ toyaṃ yathā gacchati sāgaram
13,135.142d*0639_04 sarvadevanamaskāraḥ keśavaṃ prati gacchati

appears at the end of Visnu-sahasranama in gretil edition but not in
BORI edition.

So I would like to know which edition is more complete, Gretil or BORI?

Thankyou,
Hari Guru Vaisnava das,
damodara das

[P V S Kumar]

Dear Damodar ji,

Not only this verse, many well known verses are not in the BORI edition. A detailed explanation on the material and methodology, which is about 60 pages and titled as Prolegomena is given in volume 1. 

Regards 

P V S Kumar

[Roland Steiner]

Dear Damodara Das,

> However, I found that some verses available on gretil edition are
> missing in BORI edition. For instance the famous verse:
> 13,135.142d*0639_03 ākāśāt patitaṃ toyaṃ yathā gacchati sāgaram
> 13,135.142d*0639_04 sarvadevanamaskāraḥ keśavaṃ prati gacchati
>
> appears at the end of Visnu-sahasranama in gretil edition but not in
> BORI edition.

Stanzas marked with an asterisk will be found in the critical
apparatus of the printed version of the critical BORI edition (see
attachment).

With best regards,
Roland Steiner

[Sudhakar Kabra]

Dear Damodar Das ji,

Hare Krishna.

In Mahabharata you cannot say which edition is more complete. It is a big epic and differences are bound to be found.

Also there are many intertwined episodes which is often referred to in Mahabharata.

Prof P. Lal (who also wrote a transliteration of Mahabharata and under whom I studied) used to say:

To check the authenticity ask the person to show a reference to :

1. Mahabharata By Gitapress Gorakhpur.

2. Mahabharat By Poona Bhandarkar edition.

3. Mahabharata By Kishori Mohan Ganguly.

If it can be found there authenticity can be considered otherwise take it as author addition. (Devdutta Patnaik etc)

In Ramayana it is Valmiki Ramayana and Tulsidas as considered authentic. 

So the point is not more complete or less but authentic or not. The difference as explained is path bheda.

Thanks and regards

Sudhakar kabra.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CABr-jZAJeN3zHkSvhFvNFZUSK_0PLyOjFi_-9_ps6gnXNYRSew%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rajkumari Trikha]

Yes. It is true. Even famous traditional stories are miy. That is the reason for my choice of Gita press Gorakhpur edition, while writing my three books on the Mahabharata.

With due respect

Dr. Rajkumari Trikha

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/20201217143204.Horde.rxsIo0ehOka1805snU5Wpfp%40home.staff.uni-marburg.de.

[P R]

The Kumbhakonam edition of Mahabharatha (Daakshinatya pAtha) is more complete, precise and accurate compared to others. Suitable footnotes makes it more convenient for readers to read and relate. 

This is available in searchable / editable format also

Regards 

Pradyumna R 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CABoVP%2BJxYA%3D3PL87%2BpVv36aosTCMH5r9O%2Bhaqyt7t2ctzubGKg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Prabhu]

sarvebhyo namaH

Probably well known to many here, still for the benefit of others, the southern recensions:

https://archive.org/details/MahabharataKumbakonam/Mahabharata-kumbakonamV01Adi

(kumbhaghONam edition)

and

https://archive.org/details/mahAbhArata-southern-critical-PPS-shAstri/ppssastri-01-adiparva-part1

are available too.

Regards

Prabhu

[Vineet Chaitanya]

Is there a web-link for Kumbhakonam edition of Mahabharatha (Daakshinatya pAtha)

Thanks and Regards

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CA%2Bo-w5z5CDy5-%2Bw9Zor2FCKHUJzZNZ0H87qWCDvzzVz-B667jA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/mahabharata/

has both versions. 

If you click on the tab " southern recension" , it takes you to 

https://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/mahabharata/mahabharata-sarit.html

where you have the Southern Recension.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAK5aoVnYFN1A3Zube1650nCN%3DNBdn1nmOyUtDm1gj1F6RDDJow%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Mārcis Gasūns]

On Monday, 21 December 2020 at 10:54:00 UTC+3 Nagaraj Paturi wrote:

https://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/mahabharata/

Contains errors, that http://www.mahabharata.manipal.edu/#/ does not. 

[bharat gupt]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJGj9eYsMsbdiWsR5kYPsmZivMNueSiEEnJtb39sZASk95Dz_w%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Bharat Gupt
Former Faculty, Delhi University,
Trustee and Executive Member
INDIRA GANDHI NATIONAL CENTER FOR THE ARTS
(Ministry of Culture), New Delhi
mobile:+91- 98100 77914
email: bharat...@gmail.com
homepage: http://www.bharatgupt.com
http	//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Gupt

[Vineet Chaitanya]

Thank you very much Nagraj  Paturi ji and Maarcis ji.

Regards

Mārcis Gasūns

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAME7onRxUmVfRtTfOYQ9ZyBDS0ec0uFOL7UdDG9v-2RK1%3DFB0w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Arjuna S R]

Namaste to all!

It is quite difficult to say which one is more complete. All the critical editions followed a specific methodology and noteworthy effort of many scholars is also involved in the process of their creation. we can not decide a particular edition as complete merely for having more stories or verses. The scholars have logically explained why those omissions/addition of those important sections are done in the beginning of the each critical editions (the prolegomena of BORI, the preface of Kumbhakonam, short introduction of Sastri-Vavilla to mention a few). Hence,  I personally feel all critical editions are complete in their own way. One may follow any one of the editions to conduct their respective research.

Our MAHE Mahabharata research project is focused on putting together most of the critical editions in one interface and highlight the similarities and differences among them. Currently, we have above-mentioned three critical editions and we may include few more in future. We proof-read all those three critical-editions and made error-free (thank you, Dr Mārcis Gasūns, for highlighting it). We have a beta version of the digital concordance for those three critical editions along with a Mahabharata search engine (word and praatipadika level search in Devanāgari notation) for all the three editions.

Regards,

Arjuna

[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

Respected scholars,
Thankyou very much for this valuable discussion.

>> Hence, I personally feel all critical editions are complete in their own way. One may follow any one of the editions to conduct their respective research.

Yes I understand this. My sense of using the word complete was
basically to see which one contains all the probable verses; but as
respected scholars have kindly clarified here, they have their
methodologies to find out which verse may not form the part of
original text and thus have omitted them. As the methodologies may
differ, the verses that are omitted or included may also differ, and
hence there are some differences in the critical editions.

Arjuna Sir's effort is laudable and I am enthusiastic to have a look
at his documents. Thankyou for that.

My purpose was to get an edition of Mahabharata which contains all the
probable verses. Now I understand that critical editons may have
differences and thus something like the "Union" of all critical
editions may help. This can have "Intersection" verses of all of them
included as main text, with other verses marked (with their critical
editions) as not available in certain editions.

Okay. Now I know that the four critical editions -- BORI, Kumbhakonam,
Ganguly and Gitapress can be used to reach to above document. Let's
see how much I can do.

Also, as far as I know, the text on gretil is from BORI edition,
correct me if I am wrong. Can anyone explain what is the significance
of *s and @s in verse numbers there.

[Vineet Chaitanya]

Namaste Arjuna ji,

                         I would like to read the preface of Kumbhakonam edition.

                         Can you please tell me how to access it?

Regards

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/8edf8560-0588-42fe-8465-0d0bbd1ad7e4n%40googlegroups.com.

[Arjuna S R]

Here is the file, Sir!

 KK Preface.pdf

- Arjuna

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bvparishat/wxEARQ4DhV0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAK5aoVmahd5KtzoRuKavg-%2BKGgmZo94r5vNn55Rcw2swQNBk6Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Vineet Chaitanya]

Thank you very much Arjuna ji.

Regards

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAAeqJRDw5j-GpO%2BE1sqR%2Bxzpxk8D0cM6mPj0aH2_qWDxWKJA3w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Arjuna S R]

Dear Sir,

Namaste.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 09:55, Damodara Dasa <damoda...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna.

Respected scholars,
Thankyou very much for this valuable discussion.

>> Hence,  I personally feel all critical editions are complete in their own way. One may follow any one of the editions to conduct their respective research.

Yes I understand this. My sense of using the word complete was
basically to see which one contains all the probable verses; but as
respected scholars have kindly clarified here, they have their
methodologies to find out which verse may not form the part of
original text and thus have omitted them. As the methodologies may
differ, the verses that are omitted or included may also differ, and
hence there are some differences in the critical editions.

In that case, Kumbhakonam critical edition has more number of verses - 96,635 (which also marks the omitted in other editions) compared to BORI critical edition (73796 verses) and Sastri-Vavilla critical edition (95,286 verses). I am not aware of the other critical editions exact verse numbers.

 

Arjuna Sir's effort is laudable and I am enthusiastic to have a look
at his documents. Thankyou for that.

My purpose was to get an edition of Mahabharata which contains all the
probable verses. Now I understand that critical editons may have
differences and thus something like the "Union" of all critical
editions may help. This can have "Intersection" verses of all of them
included as main text, with other verses marked (with their critical
editions) as not available in certain editions.

Okay. Now I know that the four critical editions -- BORI, Kumbhakonam,
Ganguly and Gitapress can be used to reach to above document. Let's
see how much I can do.

I think Shri KM Ganguli's work is an English translation work of the Mahabharata, not a critical edition.

 

Also, as far as I know, the text on gretil is from BORI edition,
correct me if I am wrong. Can anyone explain what is the significance
of *s and @s in verse numbers there.

Yes, GRETIL has BORI edition developed by John Smith and Muneo Tokunaga. You nay look into this site - http://www.mahabharata-resources.org/ for more resources related to the Mahabharata.

I could not see *s/@s in verse numbers. A screenshot might help us to locate it.

 

Thankyou,
Hari Guru Vaisnava das,
damodara das

- Arjuna

[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

Respected Arjuna ji,

Thankyou for this information. Then I think I will have a look at the
Kumbhakonam Edition.

For *s and @s, please have a look at the following verses from
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/2_epic/mbh/mbh_01_u.htm
---------------------------------------

01,001.145a yadā droṇe nihate droṇaputro; nārāyaṇaṃ divyam astraṃ vikurvan
01,001.145c naiṣām antaṃ gatavān pāṇḍavānāṃ; tadā nāśaṃse vijayāya saṃjaya
01,001.145d*0054_01 yadāśrauṣaṃ bhīmasenena pītaṃ
01,001.145d*0054_02 raktaṃ bhrātur yudhi duḥśāsanasya
01,001.145d*0054_03 nivāritaṃ nānyatamena bhīmaṃ
01,001.145d*0054_04 tadā nāśaṃse vijayāya saṃjaya
01,001.145d*0055_01 yadāśrauṣaṃ bhīmakarmāṇam ugraṃ
01,001.145d*0055_02 raṇe bhīmaṃ śoṇitaṃ pītavantam
01,001.145d*0055_03 bhittvā vakṣo yuvarājasya sūta
01,001.145d*0055_04 tadā nāśaṃse vijayāya saṃjaya
01,001.146a yadāśrauṣaṃ karṇam atyantaśūraṃ; hataṃ pārthenāhaveṣv apradhṛṣyam
01,001.146c tasmin bhrātṝṇāṃ vigrahe devaguhye; tadā nāśaṃse vijayāya saṃjaya
01,001.147a yadāśrauṣaṃ droṇaputraṃ kṛpaṃ ca; duḥśāsanaṃ kṛtavarmāṇam ugram
01,001.147c yudhiṣṭhiraṃ śūnyam adharṣayantaṃ; tadā nāśaṃse vijayāya saṃjaya

---- 145d has * marked into it -----

01,001.053a parāśarātmajo vidvān brahmarṣiḥ saṃśitavrataḥ
01,001.053b@002_0001 kṛṣṇadvaipāyanaṃ vyāsaṃ viddhi nārāyaṇaṃ prabhum
01,001.053b@002_0002 ko hy anyaḥ puṇḍarīkākṣān mahābhāratakṛd bhavet
01,001.053b@002_0003 bhāti sarveṣu vedeṣu ratiḥ sarveṣu jantuṣu
01,001.053b@002_0004 taraṇaṃ sarvalokānāṃ tasmād bhāratam ucyate
01,001.053c mātur niyogād dharmātmā gāṅgeyasya ca dhīmataḥ
01,001.054a kṣetre vicitravīryasya kṛṣṇadvaipāyanaḥ purā

---- Similarly, 053b has @ marked into it.

Thankyou,
Hari Guru Vaisnava das

damodara das

[Nagaraj Paturi]

During the recent BVP conference at Udupi, it was announced that a manuscript that was not used during Prof Suktankar's work was being brought out by the Udupi math(s).

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CABr-jZA3jxrUYFtxAJDWVmfNTe4uQKBETxh2aOf9zJ25SUDkBw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Roland Steiner]

> For *s and @s

Example (GRETIL):

04,001.012a avaśyaṃ tv eva vāsārthaṃ ramaṇīyaṃ śivaṃ sukham
04,001.012c saṃmantrya sahitaiḥ sarvair draṣṭavyam akutobhayam
04,001.012d*0017_001 deśaḥ puṇyaḥ samuddiṣṭaḥ sarvabādhāvivarjitaḥ
04,001.012d*0018_001 yasya yasya vaco hīdaṃ samaharṣata pāṇḍavān

Verses that appear only in the critical apparatus of the BORI edition have their own asterisk numbering, in this case *17 and *18 on page [6]:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.529158/page/n71/mode/2up


* * *

Example (GRETIL):

04,005.014d@002_0001 eṣā śamī pāpaharā sadaiva
04,005.014d@002_0002 yātrotsavānāṃ vijayāya hetuḥ
04,005.014d@002_0003 atrāyudhānāṃ kṛtasaṃniveśe
04,005.014d@002_0004 kṛtārthakāmā jayamaṅgalaṃ ca
04,005.014d@002_0005 pradakṣiṇīkṛtya śamīlatāṃ te
04,005.014d@002_0006 praṇamya cānarcur atha pravīrāḥ
04,005.014d@002_0007 mṛtpiṇḍam ādāya nijāñcalena
04,005.014d@002_0008 sūtiṃ cakāra prathamaṃ kirīṭī
04,005.014d@002_0009 śamī śamayate pāpaṃ śamī śamayate ripūn
04,005.014d@002_0010 śamī śamayate rogāñ chamī sarvārthasādhanā
04,005.014d@002_0011 rāmaḥ sītāṃ samādāya tvatprasādāc chamītale
04,005.014d@002_0012 kṛtakṛtyaḥ pure prāptaḥ prasādāt te tathāstu me

Verses which are contained only in the appendix of the BORI edition are marked with the sign @ (= appendix), in this case "2" on page [299]:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.529158/page/n365/mode/2up

[Damodara Dasa]

Hare Krishna.

Thankyou Roland sir for clarifying this. Now I understand it better.

The file that is in Gretil website has all the slokas that appear in
critical apparatus as well as appendix, placed in the respective
places with * and @ marks respectively. This certainly is very helpful
in continuously reading the text.

[Veeranarayanacharya Pandurangi]

Yes. Mahabharat Tulu manuscript based edition has appeared in print an year ago . I couldn't announce here because I didn't get copy yet, due to covid. I will share it once I get it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJGj9eYs6KwRi-bUoG%3DNK-wFntnG5seMVzBa9F8h%3DGE68TRZvg%40mail.gmail.com.