Clarity about goal \ aim of BVP

[Swapnil Belapurkar]

Ram Ram,

I joined this group to discuss Hindu dharmashastra and learn from practicing Hindu sanskrit vidvaan.

I see that the goal of BVP is a bit wishy washy, meandering and without any focus. One specific word is missing from it: हिंदू.

In my humble opinion: BVP goal should state clearly it is Hindu centric group and group aim should be changed to following or something similar : Group dedicated to service of देश धर्म देव. Primary area of discussion is संस्कृत सेवा. We also discuss various topics concerning भारत, हिंदू विद्वान & विद्यार्थी.

Clearly identifying the group goal will help focus on revival of Hindu society. It will help Hindu intellectuals and students who frequent this list and Hindu society as a whole.

Ram Ram,

Swapnil

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

'भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्' is a  mailing list for Sanskrit researchers working from India. The objective of the list is to understand, preserve and enrich the Indian intellectual heritage. To be explicit, this mailing list acts as a platform to share ideas and research papers in the areas of Sanskrit Research, Researches related to India, Indian Philosophy, Sanskrit Literature, Grammar, Science etc.

Please see this clarification

Invitation to BVP members to the decennial BVP conference Brochure (google.com)

[Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri]

Dear Sri Gargeshwari, 

Thanks for the clarification. I have a question though: are you giving a strong hint to scholars working from outside India to get out of the list? Full disclosure: I live in SFO, California, USA.

Regards,

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri

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Best Regards,

Krishna

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Ph-Cell: 408-373-9273

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

All are welcome. Please continue to contribute on matters that interest you

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I just copied and Pasted information thats on the home page of the mailing list and tried to answer  Swapnil question. Nothing else has changed.

On Friday, 27 August 2021 at 11:40:30 UTC+5:30 Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri wrote:

[Swapnil Belapurkar]

Ram Ram,

Ajit,

Allegiance of this list is implicitly to Hindus, Bharata, Deva and Dharma.

There should be no hesitation in declaring outright explicit allegiance.

Without Hindus, there is no Sanskrit. Hindu people are the ones who have preserved it in original form and made sure it continues to exist despite numerous perils. 

Watering down everything Hindu as 'Indian' may not bode well for our viz Hindu future.

List can continue to do what it does; it is just the goal or allegiance that has to be very crisp and clear. That is my opinion.

Ram Ram,

Swapnil

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The Purpose of the group is given no where the word allegiance is mentioned what's not mentioned I always assume its not there. There is nothing to make hair splitting analysis

These are the definitions of allegiance from Allegiance | Definition of Allegiance by Merriam-Webster

1a: the obligation of a feudal vassal to his liege lord

b(1): the fidelity owed by a subject or citizen to a sovereign or government

I pledge allegiance to my country.

(2): the obligation of an alien to the government under which the alien resides

2: devotion or loyalty to a person, group, or cause

allegiance to a political party

I have read Buddhist , Jain  etc works in Sanskrit. Sanskrit works are translated to Urdu and millions have read them. Many communities or religious groups learn to read, write communicate in Sanskrit The Objective of group need not indicate any allegiance The group explicitly has allegiance to Bharatiya (India Indianness its cultural diversity and ethos) hence to group is called 'Bharatiya Vidvat Parishad' This is my understanding and my understanding is crystal clear to my mind.

Whatever may be ones intention our Shastras have room for diverse and inclusive thoughts and is not restricted to any one community, religion, caste ,creed, gender.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

(Not sure when my post will appear on the group since I've been put under moderation apparently fearful about how I will respond to that separate accusatory post by nityAnanda - hence cc-ing a couple of people. )

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 3:36 PM Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Purpose of the group is given no where the word allegiance is mentioned what's not mentioned I always assume its not there.

Exactly the point. It ought to be present.

 

 The group explicitly has allegiance to Bharatiya (India Indianness its cultural diversity and ethos)

Contradiction to previous highlighted sentence :-D

 

hence to group is called 'Bharatiya Vidvat Parishad' This is my understanding and my understanding is crystal clear to my mind.

Not to other people, apparently. Because, they understand that bhAratIya could mean:

- Connected with bhArata in any way (even in enmity)

- Arising from bhArata

And, bhArata itself could refer to:

- A geographical entity

- A collection of ethnicities

- Ideals espoused by bharata (who itself could be the sage or the emperor) classically held in high regard

- Ideals espoused by people opposed to and rebelling against the above

 

Whatever may be ones intention our Shastras have room for diverse and inclusive thoughts and is not restricted to any one community, religion, caste ,creed, gender.

Not to worry - Hindus are broad-minded and inclusive also - albeit not suicidal enough to allow poison pills such as opposition to hindutva.

 

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Vishvas /विश्वासः

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

With these comments i move on unless something specific on interesting is posted

Bharata of, relating to, or characteristic of India, its inhabitants, or any of their languages

Bharatiya Means a native, citizen, or inhabitant of the Republic of India

You are right The group explicitly has allegiance to Bharatiya (India Indianness its cultural diversity and ethos) should be corrected

The below sentence as on the home page is correct

'भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्' is a  mailing list for Sanskrit researchers working from India. The objective of the list is to understand, preserve and enrich the Indian intellectual heritage. To be explicit, this mailing list acts as a platform to share ideas and research papers in the areas of Sanskrit Research, Researches related to India, Indian Philosophy, Sanskrit Literature, Grammar, Science etc

The word allegiance should be there and is not there

Not to worry - Hindus are broad-minded and inclusive also - albeit not suicidal enough to allow poison pills such as opposition to hindutva.

I have no comments to make for the above sentence that one way of thinking

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

येषां॒ वैश्व॑रूप्यप्रियाणाम् अतिसहि॒ष्णूना॒म् अस॑हिष्णवः॒ शत्र॑व॒स् तेषा॑म् ई॒दृशी॒ गतिः॑ स्यात्। (चि॒त्रम् अ॒धो द्र॑क्ष्यते।)

When you are extremely "diversity-tolerant" while your enemies are not, this is what happens (Wait for the image to load):

(वैश्व॑रूप्यम् - diversity, स॒हि॒ष्णु॒त्वम् - tolerance in society)

इ॒दम् अ॒नयो॒र् आय॑त्तम्। Based on these:

वैश्व॑रूप्यम् - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory)#Definition

श॒त्रु॒म॒त॒प्र॒सा॒रः - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmental_models_in_epidemiology#The_SIR_model

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

To be a Sanskrit lover and or a full time researcher does not mean one has to to be a Hindu by faith that's all I said. Allegiance to any particular community or religion or religious group is not prerequisite to be a Sanskrit scholar a Language or Dharma expert or an expert in Shastras. Does any of your work documents, unless you are working for religions organization say one should allegiance to Hinduism  and its values.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 4:52 PM Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

With these comments i move on unless something specific on interesting is posted

Bharata of, relating to, or characteristic of India, its inhabitants, or any of their languages

Bharatiya Means a native, citizen, or inhabitant of the Republic of India

This "Republic of India" part is ridiculous, of course - since it excludes "bhAratIya-s" who are Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Balinese, Fijians, Americans etc..

You are right The group explicitly has allegiance to Bharatiya (India Indianness its cultural diversity and ethos) should be corrected

Nebulous "bhAratIya" is not satisfactory at all. Even "Indo" in Indology refers to exactly the above, as does "South Asian"  studies. They think hindutva-s are cancerous and evil, that gangA-jamni tehzIb is the real "Indianness". 

As long as this remains unclear, there will be confusion and conflict in this group on that account (besides plentiful other reasons).

The below sentence as on the home page is correct

'भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्' is a  mailing list for Sanskrit researchers working from India.

You've already admitted that "from India" part is incorrect when responding to Krishna Kumar.

 

The objective of the list is to understand, preserve and enrich the Indian intellectual heritage.

Indologists do a lot of excellent "preservation" LOL. They might even claim to enrich it with their attitude. 

 

To be explicit, this mailing list acts as a platform to share ideas and research papers in the areas of Sanskrit Research, Researches related to India, Indian Philosophy, Sanskrit Literature, Grammar, Science etc

Correct, but too broad.

I don't get the hesitation: Aligning with interests of "bhAratIyas" necessarily implies aligning with Hindu interests. If this simple fact is not clear, what to say?

There is nothing the list gets by hiding it's hinduness. People already know who "you" (=the list) are and how you think, even if you are not self-conscious or assertive of the fact. Anti-hindutvas already stay away (by not subscribing or participating in a limited way) no matter how much you appease them - as I said, they know what to expect (plenty of examples). Buddhists like those occasional posters who seek this or that reference will continue to use it - only because this list serves their practical needs - not because the pariShat refuses to be unapologetic about its identity (which is well known to them).

[Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri]

Dear Sri Gargeshwari:

You say that Sanskrit scholars need not be Hindus. What you are saying is passable if you feel Sanskrit is just a generic language which anyone can use; for example to use to order a cup of tea. But in reality, Sanskrit embodies sanatana dharmic culture, its sub-sects and all the pedagogy that goes with it. It carries the entire Hindu sanskriti with it. While I can visualize Buddhist and Jain writings being written in Sanskrit even today, I cannot at all visualize Muslim and Christian writings in Sanskrit. Their concepts do not fit into Sanskrit just as English does not fit Hindu concepts into it. Indian people use the words 'spirituality', 'sin', 'God', etc., without thinking about the origin of these words. (it seems we have lost our critical analytical skills long ago). What I am pointing out is: not linking Sanskrit to Hindu (or related isms like Jainism and Buddhism) is not going to do any good to either the list members or others who might be interested in our scholarship. 

Best Regards,

Krishna

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Ph-Cell: 408-373-9273

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[Prabhu]

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri mahodaya, good to know you reside in the SFO area, 

:-) Me too... May be one day we would be able meetup!

Regarding, Christian writings in Sanskrit... I thought of sharing here ( you might already know...):

Bible being published by the Calcutta Baptist Missionaries, in 4 volumes (during 1840s and 1850s)

Vol1 : https://archive.org/details/holybibleinsansc02weng/page/492/mode/2up

Regards

Prabhu

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

अयं निजः परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।

उदारचरितानां तु वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम्॥

आ नो भद्रा: क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वत:

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7 Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri wrote:

Dear Sri Gargeshwari:

You say that Sanskrit scholars need not be Hindus. What you are saying is passable if you feel Sanskrit is just a generic language which anyone can use; for example to use to order a cup of tea. But in reality, Sanskrit embodies sanatana dharmic culture, its sub-sects and all the pedagogy that goes with it. It carries the entire Hindu sanskriti with it. While I can visualize Buddhist and Jain writings being written in Sanskrit even today, I cannot at all visualize Muslim and Christian writings in Sanskrit. Their concepts do not fit into Sanskrit just as English does not fit Hindu concepts into it. Indian people use the words 'spirituality', 'sin', 'God', etc., without thinking about the origin of these words. (it seems we have lost our critical analytical skills long ago). What I am pointing out is: not linking Sanskrit to Hindu (or related isms like Jainism and Buddhism) is not going to do any good to either the list members or others who might be interested in our scholarship. 

Best Regards,

Krishna

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Ph-Cell: 408-373-9273

ELRnRHQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Shoba Narayan]

Namaste!

I am a beginning student of Samskrutham, and a rasika of Indian aesthetics, culture and traditions. I am a Srividya Upasaka.

This is an important discussion about what BVP stands for.  

My opinion, which I offer in all humility because I know the level of scholarship here is that we must be as inclusive as possible.  Cast a wide tent.

It seems to me that the main difference is whether we choose a religious identity (include the word Hindu is the description), or a geographical/political identity (the question about what Bharatiya means).

My view is that the most inclusive way to solve this is by anchoring it to a linguistic identity (Sanskrit).

Each of us has many layers, some of them contradictory. To slot us would be difficult.  

To me, Samskrutham as an anchor for this group seems to be the most inclusive.

With namaskarams to all,

Shoba

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Bharata of, relating to, or characteristic of India, its inhabitants, or any of their languages

Bharatiya Means a native, citizen, or inhabitant of the Republic of India

A vidwan (or vidvan) is a person who has vidyā (knowledge) of a particular science or art.

Parishad An Assembly

Bharatiya Vidvat Parishad

Since our Sages have said आ नो भद्रा: क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वत:

Scholars across the world are welcome. Since  India Bharata Desa has a high concentration of Sanskrit Scholars the list is primarily for them

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

[Nagaraj Paturi]

अयं निजः परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।

उदारचरितानां तु वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम्॥

I am not saying this about Sri Ajit-ji at all. 

I observed that this shloka is being invoked frequently, more frequently now than earlier, to give sermons to community from which this shloka got produced, whenever that community  as a  victim of  misrepresentation and demonization protests  misrepresentation to make the protester feel that he is of laghuchetas if he protests, making  the victim the (feel about oneself or look to others to be) culprit.

Predatory imperialist and expansionist NATIONs used and are using this tactic of 'there are no nations, nations are just imaginary' with their prey nations, for preying on them. . Those scholars who work for NATIONAL universities outside India use this shloka to tell Bhaarateeyas that to assert their Bhaarateeyatva is laghuchetas. Those scholars who are funded by national defence programs of nations outside India instruct Indians that to talk on the basis of Indian nation, nationalism etc. is laghuchetas. 

Soviet Union marketed its imperialism,  a world government run by it , using the slogan 'proletariat has no nation'. Many 'post-modern' academic  looking political  thought-models which clearly belong to the lineage or geneology' to use a term used by these thought models, of Marxism, are the ones which are spreading the idea of  'nations are imaginary'. 'national identities are narrow mindedness' etc. 

This shloka has to be understood from a reference frame based understanding. You can not use the inside the train reference frame to deal with the trees and poles outside the train. 

One can not be as broadminded as to accept narrowmindedness towards oneself from outside as part of one's broad outlook.

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

If such is the context the sloka is is used I will use alternative slots. I did not know about it

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[Shoba Narayan]

To clarify, I am not suggesting that we change the name of the group. 

BVP has a hoary history and changing the basic name is unnecessary in my view.

I am merely suggesting that the "subtext" or the caption description of the group can be fiddled with.  I suggested anchoring it on Samskrutham rather than Hindu or India, that's all.

It already seems to lean that way anyway.

[K S Kannan]

I fully endorse the stand taken by Prof. Paturi.

In this warfare with words also,

some of our own utterances of wisdom are twisted and directed right against us

- merely to dilute and weaken our stand against the predatory and intolerant forces

with their shibboleths of Peace & Mercy & Freedom,

and verily the three perpetual enemies of humanity.

To be tolerant of the intolerance of the intolerant

is the right royal road to suicide.

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Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

According to the author of Hitopadesha,Narayana, the main purpose of creating the Hitopadesha is to instruct young minds the philosophy of life in an easy way so that they are able to grow into responsible adults. 

It is almost similar to the Panchatantra. The whole philosophy of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is an integral part of the Hindu Philosophy. 

Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is a philosophy that inculcates an understanding that the whole world is one family. 

It is a philosophy that tries to foster an understanding that the whole of humanity is one family. Ii  is a social philosophy emanating from a spiritual understanding that the whole of humanity is made of one life energy. If the Parmatma is one how then an Atma can be different? If Atma is different how then can it ultimately be dissolved in the Parmatma? If the whole ocean is one how then a drop of the ocean is different from the ocean? If the drop is different from the ocean how then can it ultimately be dissolved in the ocean? It is a Sanskrit phrase meaning that the whole earth is one family. The first word is made up of three Sanskrit words - Vasudha, Eva and Kutumbakam. Vasudha means the earth, Eva means emphasizing and Kutumbakam means a family. 

It means that the whole earth is just one family

"The phrase 'Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam' is from a beautiful Sanskrit verse from the Maha Upanishad. 

The meaning is basically that petty-minded people discriminate between a person who is a relative and a person who is not; but for the magnanimous ones,  the whole world is one family

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[K S Kannan]

The hypocritical usage of

ayaM nijaH paro veti... (under discussion)

is well demonstrated in Pañcatantra itself.

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 12:25 PM K S Kannan <ks.kann...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Are The papers of this conference available

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAN47gm6L6XQdNnzwoJSm5-q3_UvSU_R-JuOUBfr3nA3GQSg12A%40mail.gmail.com.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 12:27 PM Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

According to the author of Hitopadesha,Narayana, the main purpose of creating the Hitopadesha is to instruct young minds the philosophy of life in an easy way so that they are able to grow into responsible adults. 

It is almost similar to the Panchatantra. The whole philosophy of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is an integral part of the Hindu Philosophy. 

Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is a philosophy that inculcates an understanding that the whole world is one family. 

Since shrI ajit invokes the shloka in the context of hitopadesha and panchatantra, the following would be valuable to note:

https://bharatendu.com/2008/08/29/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva-kutumbakam-1-hitopadesha/

https://bharatendu.com/2008/09/12/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva-kutumbakam-2/

https://bharatendu.com/2008/09/26/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva-kutumbakam-3/

In the author's words, they will amply demostrate that :

Now, that is the context in which VK is recorded in the hitopadesha by the great paNDita of politics nArAyaNa, and he is unambiguously clear about its application when he assigns this shloka to come from a brotherhood-preaching shrewd subversionist. It gives a clear warning against blindly welcoming any idea, individual or group without due diligence of studying their history, nature and intent.

 

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[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

According to the author of Hitopadesha,Narayana, the main purpose of creating the Hitopadesha is to instruct young minds the philosophy of life in an easy way so that they are able to grow into responsible adults. 

It is almost similar to the Panchatantra. The whole philosophy of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is an integral part of the Hindu Philosophy. 

अ॒यं नि॒जं परो॒ वेत्या॑दिकं हितोपदे॒शे कश्चि॑च्छृगा॒लो दु॒ष्टाश॑यो मृ॒गस्य॑ मांसा॒र्थी वि॑श्वा॒सम् उत्पा॑दयितुम् अकथयत्।

In Hitopadeśa this "ayaṃ nijaḥ paro veti" was used by a wicked Śṛgāla to win trust while desiring the flesh of a Mṛga.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 11:12 AM Shoba Narayan <sh...@shobanarayan.com> wrote:

Namaste!

I am a beginning student of Samskrutham, and a rasika of Indian aesthetics, culture and traditions. I am a Srividya Upasaka.

उपासिका?

 

It seems to me that the main difference is whether we choose a religious identity (include the word Hindu is the description), or a geographical/political identity (the question about what Bharatiya means).

My view is that the most inclusive way to solve this is by anchoring it to a linguistic identity (Sanskrit).

Unsatisfactory since the proposal does not encompass non-sanskrit bhAratIya literature. Besides - it does not solve any existing problem - there is no significant language-based conflict in this mail stream.

 

Each of us has many layers, some of them contradictory. To slot us would be difficult.  

To me, Samskrutham as an anchor for this group seems to be the most inclusive.

With namaskarams to all,

Shoba

On Saturday, August 28, 2021 at 9:16:23 AM UTC+5:30 ajit.gar...@gmail.com wrote:

अयं निजः परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।

उदारचरितानां तु वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम्॥

आ नो भद्रा: क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वत:

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7 Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri wrote:

Dear Sri Gargeshwari:

You say that Sanskrit scholars need not be Hindus. What you are saying is passable if you feel Sanskrit is just a generic language which anyone can use; for example to use to order a cup of tea. But in reality, Sanskrit embodies sanatana dharmic culture, its sub-sects and all the pedagogy that goes with it. It carries the entire Hindu sanskriti with it. While I can visualize Buddhist and Jain writings being written in Sanskrit even today, I cannot at all visualize Muslim and Christian writings in Sanskrit. Their concepts do not fit into Sanskrit just as English does not fit Hindu concepts into it. Indian people use the words 'spirituality', 'sin', 'God', etc., without thinking about the origin of these words. (it seems we have lost our critical analytical skills long ago). What I am pointing out is: not linking Sanskrit to Hindu (or related isms like Jainism and Buddhism) is not going to do any good to either the list members or others who might be interested in our scholarship. 

Best Regards,

Krishna

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Ph-Cell: 408-373-9273

ELRnRHQ%40mail.gmail.com.

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[उज्ज्वल राजपूत]

क्ष॒म्यता॑म् इ॒दम् अप॑श्यता॒ यद्द्विरु॒क्तम् इ॑व लिखि॒तम्।

शनिवार, 28 अगस्त 2021 को 12:50:28 pm UTC+5:30 बजे विश्वासो वासुकेयः ने लिखा:

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Maha Upanishad and its  standard Sanskrit interpretation interests me and also the Papers presented at the conference whose details I have sent . I am not interested in modern politics and optics of spiritual sayings and of our Shastric texts. ( My dharma may not necessarily mean Your dharma and vice versa.). Ancient standard interpretations may not be perfect but modern political and motivated twists for any phrase learnt from hundreds of years may not be the best interpretation. Line by line questioning of any member's view is not the best way to learn. I am interested in learning  and better understanding and nothing more

[K S Kannan]

The intentions of Sri Ajit Gargeswari may be fine;

but the intentions of the abusers of the quote - so rampant -

are undoubtedly questionable.

After all, the present age is one of disinformation and misinformation,

as too of misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

The creed of today is best captured in the words of the typical lawyer:

"Get the facts first,

we can twist them later."

Devils hoodwink others

by quoting the Scriptures to the very adorers of the same!

No amount of caveat and due diligence suffices

when you are surrounded by hypocritical foes:

baiḍālika-vratin-s who are gomukha-vyāghra-s.

[tān] vāṅmātreṇapi nārcayet !

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

That is why highly respected and trained scholars who write with immense caution are the need of the hour. To be first sure what one's objective is, is  it getting likes on facebook or webpage, drum beating or deep intensive studies. For scholars and students who want to make deep intensive studies, you and very knowledgeable scholars on the list are there. I am always guided by such scholarships. At the end each class we used to Gurubhyo namaha and also add Acharbhyo Namaha.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 1:08 PM Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maha Upanishad and its  standard Sanskrit interpretation interests me and also the Papers presented at the conference whose details I have sent . I am not interested in modern politics and optics of spiritual sayings and of our Shastric texts. ( My dharma may not necessarily mean Your dharma and vice versa.).

You were wrong about more than the optics, I'd say - dropping names like panchatantra and hitopadesha while getting the essence of their message wrong.

 

Ancient standard interpretations may not be perfect but modern political and motivated twists for any phrase learnt from hundreds of years may not be the best interpretation.

Last I checked, viShNusharman and nArAyaNapaNDita are not modern, but represent "ancient" standards.

 

Line by line questioning of any member's view is not the best way to learn. I am interested in learning  and better understanding and nothing more

A better learner's attitude might be to acknowledge one's error and thank whoever brought the correction.

 

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

This list is not your classroom Vishasvasji neither do I ever intend to be your student. I never wished to write on anything you say on any thread but habits die hard isn't it. Whatever I write  or any members write you want to pounce upon. I don't understand what your intentions are. I do not wish to know either. I do wish you would not respond to my posts at all. I wish to be guided by scholars as I have been guided by Prof. Kannan, Prof Paturi and others on this thread and  others respected members on this thread or any other thread.

This verse occurs in Hitopadesha. Does it not occur in the text. The context also occurs in the Maha Upanishad am I wrong. The upanishad was a revelation to rishi and Panchatantra and Hitopadesh are ancient texts for learners

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

This list is not your classroom Vishasvasji neither do I ever intend to be your student. 

I never wished to write on anything you say on any thread but habits die hard isn't it. Whatever I write  or any members write you want to pounce upon. I don't understand what your intentions are. I do not wish to know either. I do wish you would not respond to my posts at all.

Sorry - I cannot grant that wish of yours. I will definitely respond to your messages when I see fit - generally in order to expose the faults therein - if not for your benefit, for the benefit of other readers and participants (my main concern).

I don't have any "maDi" when it comes to learning - I will gladly learn from anyone including you (though despite all the years, I am yet to do so).

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

I request members not to take posts of their correspondents personally and respond personally.

That is how, the threads are quite often going personal. 

It is creating a negative ambience for the audience. 

It does not hurt to let go if we see that there is a scope for such a situation.  

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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree and am out of this thread but wish to add  further. I did not ask for a boon from Vishvas to grant me any wish in fact iask what does he thinks he can grant wishes. I would end by saying he is Ludicrous or ridiculous at the best.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

Web site Visit https://archive.org/details/@sri_gargeshwari_digital_foundation

https://archive.org/details/karnatakasamskritauniversity

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

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[Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri]

"One can not be as broadminded as to accept narrowmindedness towards oneself from outside as part of one's broad outlook."

One of the best quotes by Sri Nagaraj Paturi on the subject! Similarly, Prof. Kannan's quotes have been brilliant. Shri Gargeshwari, nothing personal in all this; but when you talk of including everything as a lofty goal, you also have to remember that if a part of the body is diseased, we excise it and save the rest. Similarly, as Prof. Kannan noted eloquently, outside forces are using our quotable quotes against us to put us on defensive, and then pouncing on us. The result of endlessly repeating these lofty statements such as 'vasudaika kutumbakam' without context and underlying framework seems to be to fool unthinking and uncritical Indians only. Forces inimical to even Sanskrit as a language use this phrase; e.g., Sheldon Pollock when he wrote that Sanskrit is a tool for oppression of the masses. As scholars, perhaps we should be even more careful than others in ensuring the dangers lurking are recognized and taken care of? Clearly, these external forces do not agree with 'vasudaika kutumbakam', else why religious conversions?

Best Regards,

Krishna

Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Ph-Cell: 408-373-9273

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