Re: [breakingindia] The term Arya

[navaratna rajaramnavaratna]

 

   It was and still is used by South Indian groups identifying oneself as 'civilized'. Most recently, 'eedigaas' a community traditionally associated with harvesting toddy from palm trees changed their designation to 'arya eedigaas'. Of course Chettiars call themselves Arya Vaishyas.

 

   A common form of polite address in South India (not limited to Tamil Nadu) is 'Ayya' which is Prakrit tadbhava for Arya.

 

   This link to South India is much stronger and much less speculative than to any Indo-Europeans who may never have existed. (South Indians' existence is indisputable.)

 

N.S. Rajaram

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Koenraad Elst <elst.k...@pandora.be> wrote:

Someone here voiced the widespread opinion that "Arya" only means "noble". I
venture to differ.

While the term had no racial ("Nordic") or linguistic ("Indo-European")
meaning, it did originally have an ethnic meaning. On this, invasionist
linguist JP Mallory and anti-invasionist historian Shrikant Talageri agree.
At least, it has a relative ethnic meaning, not designating a particular
nation, but being used by several Indo-European nations (viz. Anatolians,
Iranians and Paurava Indians) in the sense of "compatriot", "one of us".
This term, in India, then evolved to "one who shares the civilizational
norms of the Vedic Paurava tribes", "Veda-abiding", "civilized". And thence
"noble".

Kind regards,

Koenraad Elst



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[subrahmanyam korada]

namo vidvadbhyah

AryAvarta.h

Please find the two attachments that vouch to the fact that AryAvarta or Pu.nyabhUmi ( AryAvarta.h pu.nyabhUmi.h madhyam vindhyahimAgayo.h -- Amarakos'a) was defined and demarcated by no less a person than Patan~jali himself in MahAbhA.sya
under  ' p.r.sodarAdIni yathopadi.s.tam ' PA.nini 6-3-109) , hundreds of years ago .

The then AryAvarta had had the following boundaries --

East - KAlakavanam (PrayAga)

North - HimAlaya

South - PAriyAtram(Vindhya)

West - Adars'a (Kuruk.setra)

AcAra of Aryas -

1. kumbhIdhAnyA.h ( who hoard rice etc. sufficient for two / three days - Sreedharabha.t.ta in NyAyakandalI - Commetary on Vais'e.sika)

2.alolupA.h ( without lust , as such hoarding may be for 'dambha' , i.e. I am superior to all others)

3.ag.rhyamA.nakAra.nA.h - (follow 'sadAcAra' without expecting  any 'lAbha' , 'pUja' etc.)

4.kin~cidantare.na kasyAs'cid vidyAyA.h pAramgatA.h ( learnt all Vidyas without 'gurUpades'a' )

S'i.s.tas are those who follow the above mentioned principles . And the S'abdas employed  by S'.s.tas , but not analyzed by AcArya (PA.nini) are authentic .

( see VAkyapadIyam quoted by Kaiya.ta ,and Manusm.rti by NAges'a  in Scan II )

In the beginning there was the Daivy VAk  or Samsk.rtam ( which has got the SamskAra of VyAkara.nam - samsk.rtam = samskara.h asyA astIti samsk.rtam , sam + k.r + kta , samparibhyAm karotau bhU.sa.ne (VArti. su.dAgama.h), napumsake bhAve kta.h , Pa.n 3-3-114,  matvarthe ac-pratyaya.h , like vibhaktA bhrAtara.h , dugdhA gAva.h etc ) .

Hari says in BrahmakA.n.da ( 155 )  of VAkyapadIyam --

daivy vAk vyavakIr.neyam as'aktairabhidhAt.rbhi.h

( this VAk of Devatas became / made  complicated / deformed by the users who were too weak to pronounce  )

In other Languages there may be some words which have  got resemblance ( d.rs'yate rUpatulyatA - BhAsa in SvapnavAsavadattA) .If one is interested he is free to work in that direction .

Even some Telugu words have got similarity with some words of  the Languages of Russian Federation .

One should / can not argue that Sanskrit is the Origin of  all Languages . But at the same time one should / can not brush aside the impeccable and reliable evidence that was recorded hundreds of years ago by Yogis . Generations received the knowledge thru 'avicchinnaparamparA  of Guru ans S'.sya .

Here on this Pu.nyabhUmi there lived people who were ascetic and their words are PramA.nam for all .

YogAnus'Asanam , Ayurveda etc are just examples . Let someone prepare a matching VyAkara.nam / Yoganus'Asanam / Ayurveda system today .

Presently we do not have all the 1137 S'Akhas of Vedic Literature and many more valuable books were burnt by Muslim invaders due to 'ajn~Anam' ( lA-ilm) , whereas the Christians took away many books from the unsuspecting Aryas for cheating and manipulations .

We used to call our father by the term ' Ayya / Arya ' . Even today in our orthodox families the father has to be addressed 'Arya' (Aryas'ree) . Ayya - is prevalent in Andhra Pradesh .

The entry ' Aryan ' in Oxford as a  Sanskrit word is wrong - - .r = gatau ,  .nyat-pratyaya by - .rhalor.nyat, PA.n 3-1-124 -- Arya.h .

It was Adolf Hitler who got borrowed both - the concept of Aryas and SwastikA from MahAbhA.syam (see Mein Kampf = My Struggle).

Not only in VyAka.nam but in PUrvamImAmsA (AryamlecchAdhikara.nam) and NyAyabhA.syam ( 1at AdhyAya) and other works we come across Aryas and related matters .

We do not or never know as to what kind of SadAcAra ( regular recitation of Veda , Satyam , AhimsA etc ) the so called invading Aryans had had .


dhanyo'smi

2011/3/11 navaratna rajaramnavaratna <rajaramn...@gmail.com>

--
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ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
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--
Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)

[navaratna rajaramnavaratna]

 

    I can find other sources giving other definitions. Why this obsession with Arya?

 

    It is a modern European not an ancient Indian obsession. In the whole of the Rigveda, all ten books of it, the word Arya appears fewer than 40 times. You may find it mentioned as many times or more in a single page of Hitler's Mein Kampf.

    Also, Hitler's Aryans worshipped Scandinavian gods like Odin, Thor etc, not Vedic gods. Also, their Swastika was not from India, but 'Hakenkreuz' or the "hooked cross" brought into berlin in the 1920s by the Lithuanian Erhardt Brigade.

 

N.S. Rajaram

2011/3/15 subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

The obsession with the word arya is unseemly and is a European contribution. When that is said it has to be admitted that one belonging to the sacrifice performing Vedic community - a cultured person speaking Sanskrit - was indeed understood as arya. This has a cutural connotaion. The racial connotation is unknown in Sanskrit and was slowly but with all its inevitable dangers built up in Western Europe. The early twentieth century ideas of Oldenberg in this regard were the very seeds of Hitler's ideas. Cf. the following H. Oldenberg, Die Literatur des alten Indien, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923, pp. 132-133 (translated by a friend of mine):      "Above all there were probably influences by the indigenous people of India that worked in a very profound way which we can only surmise: through the gradually progressing transformation of the blood, which means a transformation of the Soul, through the constant influx of new quantities of the blood of savages and semi-savages into the veins of those who still called themselves Aryans. Zeus and Apollo continued to rule as long as there were Greek gods because the Greek nation remained the same. Indra and Agni had to leave the field to other gods because the Indian nation had become a different one. For these minds, in which an inscrutable jumble of antagonistic powers, intertwined with each other, unleashed at each other, was at work, the Vedic gods were much too guilelessly simple; their being was all too easily exhausted. They had come from the North: now tropical gods were needed. These were hardly of fixed shapes any longer; they were whole tangles of shapes, bodies from which oozed heads upon heads, arms upon arms, multitudes of hands holding multitudes of attributes, clubs and lotus flowers: voluptuous, sombre andgrandiose poetry everywhere, exuberance and blurred shapelessness: a terrible disaster for the fine arts?" This is an internet translation by Dr. Franco Eli My observation on this is true or not, the lines show how hateful scholars like Oldenberg were towards their supposed "indigenous Indian culture." Best DB --- On Tue, 15/3/11, navaratna rajaramnavaratna <rajaramn...@gmail.com> wrote: