Duration of Mandala

[shankara]

Pranams to all,

I have heard that one mandala equals forty one days (as in the case of devotees of Ayyappa who observe a vow for forty one days). I read in book by SK Ramachandra Rao that one mandala equals 48 days. He has not quoted any pramana for this. What is the actual duration of mandala? I request scholars of this group to clear my doubt.

 

regards
shankara

[Radhakrishnan C S]

The number 48, according to some is arrived at, since the worship is through the observation of this vrata to propitiate the 27 nakshatras, the 12 rasis and the 9 Grahas.

The total of 27, 12 and 9 is 48 and hence this is considered, by some to be the duration of a Mandala.

Radhakrishnan

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[shankara]

Sir,

I would like to know if there are any references to mandala in our sastras - smriti, jyotisha, purana, etc.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: Radhakrishnan C S <csrsa...@gmail.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2015 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

[sunil bhattacharjya]

The plausible reason for the difference of the "(48 - 41) =seven" counts could be as follows:

If the Mandala Vrata is for propitiating the individual deities, the seven  out of the nine grahas, already get invoked while invoking the 27 Nakshatras and the 12  Rashis. For example, Budha is the ruler of the "Revati" Nakshatra as well as of the "Mithun" Rashi.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The word mandala as a description of time duration is 40 days only. 41 comes as 40+1 and 48 comes as 41+7 only. Adding 1 to 40 and another 7 to that 41 seem to be further developments based on the foundation of 40.

 

These two web pages on the significance of the number 40 are interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_(number)

http://www.onedreamworld.com/2013/07/significance-of-40-days.html

 

Number 40 is discussed in the discussions on hanuman chaaleesaa also.

 

One aachaarya siyaram das naiyaayik gives the significance of 40 as

 

“प्रकृतेर्महांस्ततोऽहंकारस्तस्माद् गणश्च षोडशकः.

तस्मादपि षोडशकात् पञ्चभ्यः पञ्चभूतानि ।। –22,

 

अब जीवों को स्व स्व कर्मानुसार प्राप्त होने वाले लोक हैं –14,

          (तल वितल सुतल तलातल रसातल महातल पाताल=7

            भूः भुवः स्वः महः जनः तपः सत्य= 7,)

जीव = 1

 

परमात्मा = 1

 

Total =40

 

In Ayurveda too 40 day period comes up for discussion. Bhishakjis on the list  may be able to give more details.

 

 

 

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Nagaraj Paturi]

link to Poojya Siyaramdasji's page cited is

 

http://www.acharysiyaramdas.com/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8-%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE/

--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[shankara]

Paturiji,

Thanks for the explanation and helpful links. I will explore them.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

[shankara]

Bhattacharyaji,

Your explanation makes sense. Thanks for the hint. 

Rather than a symbolic explanation of the number 41 or 48, I am looking for definition of the term 'mandala' in our sastras - in jyotisha, smritis, puranas, etc.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
To: BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

[shankara]

Namaste,

Please read definition of the term 'mandala' as definition of duration of mandala.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: shankara <shanka...@yahoo.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 8:27 AM

[shankara]

Namaste,

Vachaspatyam gives 'उभयतोविंशतियोजनमिते' as one of the meanings of mandala. I request scholars to explain this.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: shankara <shanka...@yahoo.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 8:33 AM

[Nagaraj Paturi]

This is a measure of area of a square with 20 yojana side.

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Mandala is used basically for a circle, as an extension for any enclosed area or its circumference ( e.g. chaturasraakaaramaNDalam kritvaa etc. used in vedic rituals)

As a metaphorical extension, it is used for 'a round' of tratment in Ayurveda. Usual maNDala in Ayurveda or haTha yoga is 40 days. But some Ayurvedic books say that the duration of the maNDala can be decided by the bhishak from case to case, though the usual duration is 40 days.

Another metaphorical extension from the basic meaning of circle is time cycle. 

--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Another link discussing significance of 40 days:

 

http://www.creation-answers.com/forty.htm

--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Can you please give sanskrit texts that give this information or some pointers as to which books in jyotisha, smritis, puranas indicating sections which deals with the concepts of Mandala as unit of time

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Waiting for Bhishaks to respond with that data. Meanwhile, I am sharing my happiness with the universal /international significance of the concept that appears to be typically Indian.

 

Sorry if the scope of this forum does not allow the sharing of universal/international significance of apparently typically Indian concepts.

 

I stop that activity with this post.

 

Sorry again.

 

Nagaraj 

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

I read in book by SK Ramachandra Rao that one mandala equals 48 days. He has not quoted any pramana for this. What is the actual duration of mandala?

 any references to mandala in our sastras - smriti, jyotisha, purana, etc.

                          विद्वान् शंकरः

I did not find the term मण्डलम् in वेद, वेदाङ्ग, दर्शन etc. It may be in some other texts.

The fixing of 48 days may be following आश्वलायनगृह्यसूत्रम् (कण्डिका 22 -  वेदब्रह्मचर्यकालनियमः3 -  सूत्रम् 3--

द्वादशवर्षाणि वेदब्रह्मचर्यम्

गार्ग्यनारायणीयवृत्तिः --

वेदग्रहणं कथम् ? एकैकस्य वेदस्य द्वादशवर्षाणि ब्रह्मचर्यं स्यादिति । तेन द्वयोः चतुर्विंशति त्रयाणां षट्त्रिंशत् । चतुर्णाम् अष्टाचत्वारिंशत् ।

There are so many व्रतानि in स्मृतिs and other works and as far as I could see there is no any व्रतम् that runs for 40/41 days.

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Personal Website: www.korada.org

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari <ajit.gar...@gmail.com> wrote:

[shankara]

Paturiji,

Thanks again for pointing to informative article on significance of the number 40. I am also inclined to believe that the concept of mandala is somehow related to number 40, as you suggested. I hope someone will throw more light on this based on scriptures.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 8:26 PM

[rniyengar]

The word MaNDala appears in the TAi AraNyaka several times. Please see 1-2-1, 1-6-3, 1-7-3, 1-7-6, also in the Narayanopanishad. ManDaleShTaka are mentioned in the Tai. Samhita  5-3-9-2. The reference in the TA is to the Sun as SuryamaNDala. 

TA links Surya with Time which is natural. But how the time measure of 48 arose is not clear. The word, like several other technical words, has been used with variable meaning. Personally, I feel, in the most ancient period (TA period) it meant a "closed region in the sky". 

RNI    

Radhakrishnan

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Thank you Prof. Iyengar I think this resolves the question asked by Sankar Prasad to a Large extent

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[shankara]

Iyengarji,

Thanks for providing references to mandala in Vedic literature.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 10:29 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

RNI    

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

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Hyderabad-500044

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[shankara]

Koradaji,

Thanks for responding to my query.

I remember one significance of the number 40 in jyotisha. The Sun takes 40 days to cover 3 nakshatras. Could this be somehow related to the cycle of 40 days?

 

regards
shankara

---

From: Subrahmanyam Korada <kora...@gmail.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 9:32 PM

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks to Prof R N Iyengar for resolving the issue by reminding us all that

 

The reference in the TA is to the Sun as SuryamaNDala. 

 

I was looking for the usage of the word maNDala in the sense of a certain duration of days in Vedic references without realizing that usage of the word in any meaning in Vedic reference would resolve the issue.

 

 

[sadasivamurty rani]

1. The word mandala  basically means a circle  (Two dimensional) and the parimandala(Three dimensional) means globe. 

2. As an extension of this meaning to include  the domain of any particular celestial bodies -  the regions of the Earth, The Sun, The Stars, The Seven sages etc.., are  popularly called - bhumandala, suryamandala, nakshatramandala, saptarshimandala and so on.

3. Further to represent any domain of knowledge in a text just as in case of Rgveda - the word Mandala is used. As all of us know there are 10 Mandalas in the Rgveda Samhita. 

4. Similarly to stand for any group of people like - budhamandalam (group of scholars), rajamandalam (group of kings) and such are also popularly used.

5.. To correlate to the present context I would like to mention what I have learnt  in our tradition at home.  In my childhood I was told that the number 40 is represented by the word MANDALA because of the following reason. 

The word MANDALA is verbally stands for a LONG CIRCLE FORMED FROM A LARGE RECTANGULAR FIELD EXTENDING TO A LENGTH OF 20 YOJANAS ON ITS EITHER LONG SIDES. So when both the sides are joined together it results in 20+20= 40 Yojanas. 

So symbolically the word MANDALA stands for 20+20= 40.

Hence this word MANDALA standing for 40 is adapted in Ayurvedic Texts and Mantra Sastra Diksha occasions also. 

So often most of the Ayurvedic medicines for chronic diseases are prescribed to be used for 40 days. Similarly the holy texts like the Mahabharata are recommended to be recited for 40 days (or days of one Mandala). Similarly any Mantras according to Mantra Sastra yield good or desired results if they are repeatedly uttered for 40days. This type of practice for 40 days is known as Mandala Diksha.

Even a person with all bad habits if takes an austerity and stops his bad habits for 40 days he will be able to control his weaknesses for ever. So the period of 40days is given importance in special ritualistic practices.

I shall try to find Sanskrit quotes from any texts if I come across in course of time.

 Warm regards, 

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 10:29 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

RNI    

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[sadasivamurty rani]

The word "mandala" is found in the Amarakosodghatana commentary of Bhatta Kshirasvamin on the Namalinganusasanam of Amarasimha particularly while giving the etymological notes for the words 'Vyuha', 'Pratyaalidham' and Aalidham:.

व्यूह्यते रच्यते व्यूह:। व्यूहस्येति शेष:, यदाहु: दण्डो मण्डलभोगौ चाप्युत्सन्नस्चाचलो दृढ:। व्यूहास्तेषां विशेषा: स्यु: चक्रव्यूहादयॊऽपि च॥

आलेढि शब्दव्याख्याने - आलेढि भुवमालीढम़् - आदिशब्दात् समपादं,  च वैशाखं मण्डलं तथा धनुर्वेदप्रसिद्धम्। भरतस्त्वन्यथाह - वैष्णवं समपादं च वैशाखं मण्डलं तथा। प्रत्यालीढमालीढं स्थानान्येतानि षड़् नृणाम्॥ इति च॥

I shall try to add some more lines in my future posting.

Warm regards,  

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: Subrahmanyam Korada <kora...@gmail.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 9:32 PM

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste

The Christians have the  fasting called the Lenten fasting for 40 days. The 40 days of Lent has the direct / literal link with the 40 days that Jesus Christ fasted in the desert after his Baptism by John, the Baptist.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sadasivamurty rani]

सर्वशब्दसम्बोधिनी - नामक संस्कृतनिघणुगत’मण्डल’शब्दस्य अर्था: - 

ग्रन्थोऽयं १८७५ तमे वर्षे प्रथमवारं मुद्रितम्। इदानीं पुन: एषियऩ् एड्युकेषनल् सर्वीसेस् - न्य़ूढिल्ली प्रकाशकै: प्रकाशितम्।

अ)  मण्डलम् -

१. वलयाकारवस्तु २. समूह: ३. सर्वतोभद्रादिसप्तभेदयुक्तमण्डलव्यूह:। ४. ध्वनिविन्यस्तपादथितिभेद:।

५. गुडमिश्रपिष्टकृत:। ६. द्वादशराजसमूह:।७. प्रतिसूयमण्डलम्। ८. इन्द्रखड्ग:। ९. सूर्यादिमण्डलम्।

१०. नाट्यत्रिचतु:खण्डकृतक्रिया ११. नखक्षतविशॆष: १२. कुष्ठम् १३. चत्वारिशद्योजनदेश:। १४. आन्ध्रभाषायां - अरिसेलु इति खाद्यपदार्थ:।

आ) मण्डल:

१. प्रतिसूर्यमण्डल: २. सूर्यादिमण्डल:.४. मण्डनम् ५. नाट्यत्रिचतु:खण्डक्रिया ५. नखक्षतभेद: ६.कुष्ठम्

७. चत्वारिशद्योजनदेश:

इ) मण्डलकम् -

१. कोठम् २. बिम्बम् ३. दर्पण:।

ई) मण्डलक: - कुक्कुर:

उ) मण्डलनृत्यम् -मण्डलाकारनृत्यम्

ऊ) मण्डलिक: - विंशतियोजनविस्तारदेशपालक:।

ऋ) मण्डली - १. समूह: २. सुनक: ३. सूर्यादिमण्डल़म् ४. प्रतिसूर्यमण्डलम् ५. नाट्यत्रिचतु:खण्डक्रिया

६. कुष्ठम् ७. चत्वारिशद्योजऩदेश:।

ॠ) मण्डलेश्वर: - चत्वारिशद्योजनभूपालकलक्षग्रामाधिपतिद्रुपदादि:.॥

 I shall add some relevant meanings to the context after my further efforts. In the above citations the bold meanings may help one to know how the word MANDALA is used for 40.

Warm regards,

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: 'sadasivamurty rani' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2015 12:07 AM

[shankara]

Sir,

Thank you for confirming the relation between mandala and the number 40. I have a doubt about चत्वारिशद्योजनदेश:. Vachaspatya defines it as उभयतोविंशतियोजनमिते देशभेदे. If both sides of a land are 20 yojana each in length, the area of the land would be 400 chaturasra yojana. Can this be the same as चत्वारिशद्योजनदेश:?

 

regards
shankara

---

From: 'sadasivamurty rani' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2015 12:54 AM

[Hnbhat B.R.]

प्रथमप्रश्न एव एकचत्वारिंशद्दिनपरिमितमण्डलस्य
अष्टचत्वारिंशद्दिनपरिमितमण्डलस्य विषये एव प्रामाण्यमधिकृत्य, न तु
चत्वारिंशद् वा अन्यसंख्याकमण्डलस्य विषये,
मण्डलशब्दस्यार्थान्तरविषयकप्रयोगविषये।

ऋग्वेदे मण्डले कति मन्त्रा वा सूक्तानि वा इति परिमितिर्वर्तते वा यत्र
समूहवाचकः मण्डलान्तर्गतव्यक्तिसंख्या भिद्यते वा प्रतिमण्डलम्? आहत्य
कति मण्डलानि वर्तन्ते?

To be precise the valid testimony for the convention of the period of
days 41 (and not 40 as many posts make it) or 48 days-s.

Can it be concluded from the detailed andlengthy discussion so far,
there is no proof that the period days in a Mandala, either for 41 or
48, as in the first question? Otherwise many more detailed discussion
onehe use of the word Mandala in different sciences or measurements of
time or things units varrying in different Sahastra-s and add to the
length of the thread without finding the reply to the validity of the
units containing 41 or 48.

[sadasivamurty rani]

Sankar ji,

Though usually area is measured in square feet or square miles or square yojanas etc.. here the length wise extent of the piece of land only may  be taken into account and not in square yojanas as per the illustrations available. 

Warm regards, 

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: 'shankara' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
To: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2015 8:02 AM

[sadasivamurty rani]

Thanks to Sri HN Bhat mahodaya for rightly reminding the participants in the current discussion not to deviate from the main expected point. 

Yes.   I try to  reconcile the progressive views of all scholars in this context. 

At the out set let me quote the first question of this thread of discussion: 

"I have heard that one mandala equals forty one days (as in the case of devotees of Ayyappa who observe a vow for forty one days). I read in book by SK Ramachandra Rao that one mandala equals 48 days. He has not quoted any pramana for this. What is the actual duration of mandala? I request scholars of this group to clear my doubt." 

After a keen observation it seems that this question has given some freedom to the scholars to say about the actual duration of MANDALA.  

As far as the practice in Ayurveda and Mantra Sastra are concerned Mandala Dinani (while using a medicine) or Mandala Diksha (while consecration of chanting some specific Mantras) the duration is popularly restricted to 40 only and neither to 41 nor to 48. 

So here a search for how the word MANDALA stands for 40 need not be out of context.  

Moreover SRI SHANKARA MAHODAYA who triggered out this question also seems convinced to accept any sources in support of MANDALA representing 40. From this point of view also any arguments supporting MANDALA =40 if advanced by any scholars it may not be out of the context.

Further to add,  in the attempt of finding out supporting passages for 'MANDALA = 40'  various shades of meanings available in NIGHANTUS are observed mentioned by different scholars in their respective mails.  

Here also a reason which may not be denied can be traced out: 

BHUTADI system  i.e. using words for representing numbers is not out of practice in various Sastras in Sanskrit. For instance: SURYA for 12, Asva for 7, RUDRA for 11, RASA for 6 or 9 depending on the context and so on are popularly used. 

Hence it can be inferred from all the mails that the word MANDALA primarily refers to an extent of land covering 40 yojanas length and consequently according to BHUTADI system MANDALA might have been used to represent the number 40.

Before concluding mail I would like to add another MANTRA SASTRA citation from SARADA TILAKA TANTRA which has reference to the relation of MANDALA and 40.

This reference can be seen in the Third PATALA (Slokas 29, 30 and 31) of Sarada Tilaka Tantra in the context of MANDAPA Nirmana as a part of Diksha Vidhi. While structuring a MANDAPA in its Northern part A secret SALA is to me constructed in which a MANDALA racana should be made. That MANDALA racana should be according to the following slokas.   

मण्डपस्योत्तरे भागे शालां पूर्वापरायताम्।

गूढां कुर्य्यात् ततस्तस्यां मण्डलं रचयेत् बुधै:॥२९॥

पञ्चहस्तप्रमणानि पञ्चसूत्राणि पातयेत्।

पूर्वापरायतान्येषामन्तरं द्वादशाङ्गुलम्॥३०॥

दक्षिणोत्तरसूत्राणि तद्वदेकादशार्पयेत्।

पदानि तत्र जायन्ते चत्वारिंशत् प्रमार्जयेत्॥ ३१॥

 The drawing of said mandala should be according to the following description. FIVE straight lines of FIVE hand-lengths each should be laid down on the ground spreading from east to west. The gap between line and line should be 12 Angulams. (Of these FIVE lines the 1st and 5th are outer lines)

Then across these five lines ELEVEN lines should be drawan spreading from North to South. (Of these ELEVEN lines the 1st and 11th are outer lines). Then this drawing will form with 40 rectangular cells in it. This drawing with 40 rectangular cells is called a MANDALA. So citation also may help to draw some inference in support of the the relation of MANDALA and 40.

I too eagerly wait for further postings indicating the relation between MANDALA and the numbers - 40 or 41 or 48. 

 Warm regards, 

Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

---

From: Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2015 8:17 AM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

--
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
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[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

namo bhA-ratavidvadbhyaH !
My humble note:
1. Generally the word 'maNDala' denotes a wholesome section in space or time.
2. The universal reality obtaining is termed as 'akhaNDamaNDalam'.
3. As certain texts are quoted, one can also look at the number 40 in
R.V. Indra sUktam: 'catvAriM'sýAM sáradi anvavindan'. What is so
sacrosanct about the years being 40 ?
4. In Odia language colloquial use the word 'khaNDamaNDala' has a spatial sense.
5. Acc. to MBh. text Bhishma lied down on the bed of arrows for 58
nights: Is it 40+18 ?
6. All 10 fingers spread and held up appear in maNDalAkriti. Could
thus 40 be a derivative of 10 ?
7. The plexuses - cakras- are from a 4-petalled lotus to a 1000
petalled lotus at the sahasrAra. The number 4 could represent the 4
directions and thus 'akhaNDamaNDala' !
8. The Chinese or Tibbetan rendering of maNdala must have some
numerical tradition attached to it. As I find, in our maNDala-s in
smArta karmakANDa, a navagraha-maNDala has 9 or 27 boxed spaces, in a
sarvatobhadra one it is 54, in a rudra it is again 27 or 64 and so on.
9. Since the numbers assigned to a 'maNDala'varies in different
situations: 20,21,40,41 and 48, other numbers arrived at elsewhere may
be looke up.
10. In NyAya-Vaiséshika, a 'parimaNDala' means an atom or a dyad and
it's size is 'pArimANDalya'. In that respect the meaning of
'maNDala'also has to be understood.
Best regards,
SMMishra

On 1/17/15, 'sadasivamurty rani' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
<bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Sri HN Bhat mahodaya for rightly reminding theparticipants in the

> current discussion not to deviate from the main expectedpoint.
>

> Yes.   I try to  reconcile the progressive views of allscholars in this

> context.
>
> At the out set let me quote the first question of this thread of
> discussion:
>

> "I have heard that one mandala equals forty onedays (as in the case of
> devotees of Ayyappa who observe a vow for forty onedays). I read in book by
> SK Ramachandra Rao that one mandala equals 48 days. Hehas not quoted any
> pramana for this. What is the actual duration of mandala? Irequest scholars

> of this group to clear my doubt."
>
> After a keen observation it seems that this question has given some freedom
> to the scholars to say about the actual duration of MANDALA.
> As far as the practice in Ayurveda and Mantra Sastra are concerned Mandala
> Dinani (while using a medicine) or Mandala Diksha (while consecration of
> chanting some specific Mantras) the duration is popularly restricted to 40
> only and neither to 41 nor to 48. So here a search for how the word MANDALA
> stands for 40 need not be out of context.
> Moreover SRI SHANKARA MAHODAYA who triggered out this question also seems
> convinced to accept any sources in support of MANDALA representing 40. From
> this point of view also any arguments supporting MANDALA =40 if advanced by
> any scholars it may not be out of the context.
> Further to add,  in the attempt of finding out supporting passages for
> 'MANDALA = 40'  various shades of meanings available in NIGHANTUS are
> observed mentioned by different scholars in their respective mails.  Here
> also a reason which may not be denied can be traced out: BHUTADI system
>  i.e. using words for representing numbers is not out of practice in various
> Sastras in Sanskrit. For instance: SURYA for 12, Asva for 7, RUDRA for 11,
> RASA for 6 or 9 depending on the context and so on are popularly used. Hence
> it can be inferred from all the mails that the word MANDALA primarily refers
> to an extent of land covering 40 yojanas length and consequently according
> to BHUTADI system MANDALA might have been used to represent the number 40.
> Before concluding mail I would like to add another MANTRA SASTRA citation
> from SARADA TILAKA TANTRA which has reference to the relation of MANDALA and

> 40.This reference can be seen in the Third PATALA (Slokas 29, 30 and 31) of

> Sarada Tilaka Tantra in the context of MANDAPA Nirmana as a part of Diksha
> Vidhi. While structuring a MANDAPA in its Northern part A secret SALA is to
> me constructed in which a MANDALA racana should be made. That MANDALA racana
> should be according to the following slokas.   मण्डपस्योत्तरे भागे शालां
> पूर्वापरायताम्।गूढां कुर्य्यात् ततस्तस्यां मण्डलं रचयेत्
> बुधै:॥२९॥पञ्चहस्तप्रमणानि पञ्चसूत्राणि पातयेत्।पूर्वापरायतान्येषामन्तरं
> द्वादशाङ्गुलम्॥३०॥दक्षिणोत्तरसूत्राणि तद्वदेकादशार्पयेत्।पदानि तत्र जायन्ते
> चत्वारिंशत् प्रमार्जयेत्॥ ३१॥
>  The drawing of said mandala should be according to the following
> description. FIVE straight lines of FIVE hand-lengths each should be laid
> down on the ground spreading from east to west. The gap between line and
> line should be 12 Angulams. (Of these FIVE lines the 1st and 5th are outer

> lines)Then across these five lines ELEVEN lines should be drawan spreading

> from North to South. (Of these ELEVEN lines the 1st and 11th are outer
> lines). Then this drawing will form with 40 rectangular cells in it. This
> drawing with 40 rectangular cells is called a MANDALA. So citation also may
> help to draw some inference in support of the the relation of MANDALA and

> 40.I too eagerly wait for further postings indicating the relation between

> MANDALA and the numbers - 40 or 41 or 48.  Warm regards, Dr. Rani Sadasiva
> Murty

> email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.

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>
>
>

> --
> निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
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--
*****
Surendramohan Mishra
Dept of Sanskrit,Pali & Prakrit
Faculty of Indic Studies,Kurukshetra University
KURUKSHETRA-136 119,Haryana,INDIA
Tel : (Off.)01744 238410(extn.)2504
(Mob.)098960 86579;(Res.)01744-238567
Blogs : http://surendrashastram.blogspot.com
http://surendra-shaastram.blogspot.com

[Nagaraj Paturi]

 After Prof. Rani Sadasiva Murtyji's posts on this subject, may I reflect as follows:

 

1. Prof. Rani's posts confirm that the idea of mandala is centred around the number 40 only. I am happy to have said very early in the thread :

"The word mandala as a description of time duration is 40 days only. 41 comes as 40+1 and 48 comes as 41+7 only. Adding 1 to 40 and another 7 to that 41 seem to be further developments based on the foundation of 40."

 

2. I am happy to have kept the focus of the thread around the thread initiator's emphasis expressed as :

 

"Please read definition of the term 'mandala' as definition of duration of mandala."

 

3. I am happy to have said that I was waiting for Bhishaks with expectation that the answer could come from the field of Ayurveda. Prof. Rani's answers have come from his Ayurveda only.

 

4. A good take away from the thread seems to be Prof. Rani's :

 

"Hence it can be inferred from all the mails that the word MANDALA primarily refers to an extent of land covering 40 yojanas length and consequently according to BHUTADI system MANDALA might have been used to represent the number 40."

 

But may we recollect that this was rightly guessed by  vidwan Shankaraji to be the possible source of mandala as 40 days when he brought the vaachaspatya definition.

 

The same thing was confirmed by Prof. Raniji as his learning from childhood at home.

 

5. Though till now no textual reference with exact info of maNDala as duration of time is 40 days only, Prof. Rani's documentation of his  learning through oral tradition of Ayurveda and Mantra s'Astra tradition can be taken as some evidence in this direction.

 

 

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--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Hnbhat B.R.]

Thanks for winding up the discussion, Mr. Paturi.

Now the question becomes focussed whetherf the duration of mandala, as
in practice, 41 days or 48 days, is without any "pramana" so far
examined or misleading without any base? This was the purport of the
questionin the purpous and not any definition or derivation by which
the "mandala" would give any other number or numbers.

I too have heard both these calculations of the period of Mandala,
though the word may mean many other things or numbers or period of
days. Mandala used in practice, was centered on the duration of a
period of a number of days, and I have heard in my childhood, it was
48 days of period.

I had raised a questioin in an earlier post, what does the division of
"mandala" in the system of divsion, mandala, adhyayam sukta or
mandala, ashtaka, varga stand for in the Rigveda samhita? Does it
denote a consistent number of the sub group or a random division
without any fixed number in the group? In the second case, it may
denote any number constained in the "mandala" which has only a
meaning, collection or a name for a collection of sub categories if
any and not any specific number attached to it. It depends on the
group or period of days contained during the course, in which a
ceremony or pooja is used to be celebrated or vrata to be performed in
practiced in the region. SKRao could have added the remark as 48 days
according to the practice in his region. I too have of "mandala" pooja
in a temple, during which a procession is popular that the place
became known as volasari, meaning procession in Tulu region, for the
temple itself and mandalapooja in houses, took place for 48 days,
durgapuja, during a particular season. And myself do not know how the
number came to be attached to the word.

I came to know of 41 days only from the Ayyappa devotees' practice in
Kerala. But I was too young then, to ask for any "pramana" for the
practice.

By bhutadisamkhya, it may not be consistent in its use, it can be 12
dvadasha mandala, or as by Ayurveda, it may be a mandala of 40 days,
according to the practice of the Ayurvedic physicians, it may vary
accoring to the nature of the illness treated, the duration of the
course of treatment may vary. Anyhow I am not a practitioner of
Ayurveda of astronomy. The case of loka, can be used for 3, 7 or 14 or
more on another consideration and the word mandala may denote any
number on its usage in the context of each Shastra.

This is my reflection on reading all the posts.

On 1/18/15, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
> After Prof. Rani Sadasiva Murtyji's posts on this subject, may I reflect
> as follows:
>
> 1. Prof. Rani's posts confirm that the idea of mandala is centred around
> the number 40 only. I am happy to have said very early in the thread :
> "The word mandala as a description of time duration is 40 days only. 41
> comes as 40+1 and 48 comes as 41+7 only. Adding 1 to 40 and another 7 to
> that 41 seem to be further developments based on the foundation of 40."
>
> 2. I am happy to have kept the focus of the thread around the thread
> initiator's emphasis expressed as :
>

> "Please read definition of the term 'mandala' as definition of *duration*

> of mandala."
>
> 3. I am happy to have said that I was waiting for Bhishaks with expectation
> that the answer could come from the field of Ayurveda. Prof. Rani's answers
> have come from his Ayurveda only.
>

> 4. *A good take away from the thread seems to be Prof. Rani's* :

>
> "Hence it can be inferred from all the mails that the word MANDALA
> primarily refers to an extent of land covering 40 yojanas length and
> consequently according to BHUTADI system MANDALA might have been used to
> represent the number 40."
>
> But may we recollect that this was rightly guessed by vidwan Shankaraji to
> be the possible source of mandala as 40 days when he brought the
> vaachaspatya definition.
>
> The same thing was confirmed by Prof. Raniji as his learning from childhood
> at home.
>
> 5. Though till now no textual reference with exact info of maNDala as
> duration of time is 40 days only, Prof. Rani's documentation of his
> learning through oral tradition of Ayurveda and Mantra s'Astra tradition
> can be taken as some evidence in this direction.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:37 PM, 'sadasivamurty rani' via
> भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Sri HN Bhat mahodaya for rightly reminding the participants in
>> the current discussion not to deviate from the main expected point.
>> Yes. I try to reconcile the progressive views of all scholars in this
>> context.
>> At the out set let me quote the first question of this thread of
>> discussion:
>> "I have heard that one mandala equals forty one days (as in the case of
>> devotees of Ayyappa who observe a vow for forty one days). I read in book
>> by SK Ramachandra Rao that one mandala equals 48 days. He has not quoted

>> any pramana for this. *What is the actual duration of mandala?* I request

>> scholars of this group to clear my doubt."
>> After a keen observation it seems that this question has given some
>> freedom to the scholars to say about the actual duration of MANDALA.
>>

>> *As far as the practice in Ayurveda and Mantra Sastra are concerned

>> Mandala Dinani (while using a medicine) or Mandala Diksha (while
>> consecration of chanting some specific Mantras) the duration is popularly

>> restricted to 40 only and neither to 41 nor to 48. *

>> *Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
>> *To:* bvpar...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 17 January 2015 8:17 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

>>
>> प्रथमप्रश्न एव एकचत्वारिंशद्दिनपरिमितमण्डलस्य
>> अष्टचत्वारिंशद्दिनपरिमितमण्डलस्य विषये एव प्रामाण्यमधिकृत्य, न तु
>> चत्वारिंशद् वा अन्यसंख्याकमण्डलस्य विषये,
>> मण्डलशब्दस्यार्थान्तरविषयकप्रयोगविषये।
>>
>> ऋग्वेदे मण्डले कति मन्त्रा वा सूक्तानि वा इति परिमितिर्वर्तते वा यत्र
>> समूहवाचकः मण्डलान्तर्गतव्यक्तिसंख्या भिद्यते वा प्रतिमण्डलम्? आहत्य
>> कति मण्डलानि वर्तन्ते?
>>
>> To be precise the valid testimony for the convention of the period of
>> days 41 (and not 40 as many posts make it) or 48 days-s.
>>
>> Can it be concluded from the detailed andlengthy discussion so far,
>> there is no proof that the period days in a Mandala, either for 41 or
>> 48, as in the first question? Otherwise many more detailed discussion
>> onehe use of the word Mandala in different sciences or measurements of
>> time or things units varrying in different Sahastra-s and add to the
>> length of the thread without finding the reply to the validity of the
>> units containing 41 or 48.
>>
>> --
>> निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[Siddharth Wakankar]

 The word Mandal is used in the Marathi Vyankatesha-stotra by Deveedaasa for "a period of 42 days",see:verse no 94-त्यासि एक मण्डल साङ्ग/पठणे करूनी कार्यसिद्धि//

After reciting this stotra(with unflinching devotion) for forty-two days,a person gets his desired things.(kaaryasiddhi)

Siddharth Y Wakankar

[Dr.Raghavendra.Bhat]

Namaste !

As Prof.Nagaraj Paturi ji said Mandala is 40days in HathaYoga.

As in Hathapridipika -

"मण्डलाद् दृश्यते सिद्धिः कुन्द्ल्यभ्यासयोगिनः || III-117||

(Page No 123 -Chapter III.

Kaivalyadhama S.M.Y.M Samiti, Lonavla, Pune;1970 &1998)

In same page it is also mentioned that 

"Brihmananda considers MANDALA to be period of 40 days."..

As per my knowledge is concern few DATTATREYA followers are also considers their Mandala Deeksha  for 40 days only..

Dhanyavaadah.

With warm regards,

Dr Raghavendra Bhat
+91 8956610988
drbhat...@gmail.com

[Hnbhat B.R.]

This difference of 40/41 and 48 period of days constituting the
duration has been discussed in many places.

http://www.ishafoundation.org/blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/making-hata-yogi-establishing-practice/

The above link refers to 40-48 days durationb of the session called mandala.

You undertake a ‘vow’ and complete it in 48 days, like staying
in silence within a temple with or without food; or, going round Arunachala
Hill for 48 days – one a day, without a break.

This is the practice in Arunachala where the rounding of the hill on
full moon days, while the practice in shabarimala, is the duration of
41 days and not 40 or 48.

Only the best reply is that it depends on the religious practice of
the region in the temples in respect of the festival days during which
the special pooja is performed.

The practice of cycle of mandala, is discussed in reddig group also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/14sky7/full_mandala_cycle_48_days_report_the_secret_to/

But none of these refer to a cycle of 40 days and most
participants/informants are not Sanskrit Scholars. Hence could not
give any written evidence for their practice. Here is a report of
mandala pooja for 48 days.



I have myself witnessed the mandalapooja, period, for the period of 48
days from the month of Vrischika 1 ending with dhanu 18, i.e. This
year on January 2, in our region. My brother-in-law used to do the
special pooja during the 48 days while the permenant priest performs
on other days.

By some it is considered an 48 auspicious number for ritual purposes
as the reports on Google on mandalapooja suggest. And here is one more
discussion

https://quantumwellnessinc.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/discover-the-healing-aspects-of-mandalas-and-light-energy/

Just googled. with mandala + days.

In short there is no fixed days of numbers, but either 41 and 48 it
varies in practice.

On 1/19/15, Dr.Raghavendra.Bhat <bhatr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Namaste !
> As Prof.Nagaraj Paturi ji said Mandala is 40days in HathaYoga.
> As in Hathapridipika -

> *"मण्डलाद् दृश्यते सिद्धिः कुन्द्ल्यभ्यासयोगिनः || III-117||*

> (Page No 123 -Chapter III.

> *Kaivalyadhama S.M.Y.M Samiti, Lonavla, Pune;1970 &1998*)

> In same page it is also mentioned that

> "*Brihmananda considers MANDALA to be period of 40 days*."..

>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* shankara <shanka...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> *To:* "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 16 January 2015 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Namaste,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please read definition of the term 'mandala' as definition of
>>>>>>>> duration of mandala.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>> shankara
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* shankara <shanka...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> *To:* "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 16 January 2015 8:27 AM
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bhattacharyaji,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your explanation makes sense. Thanks for the hint.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rather than a symbolic explanation of the number 41 or 48, I am
>>>>>>>> looking for definition of the term 'mandala' in our sastras - in
>>>>>>>> ​​
>>>>>>>> jyotisha, smritis, puranas, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>> shankara
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* sunil bhattacharjya <skbhatt...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> *To:* BHARATIYA VIDVAT <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 16 January 2015 12:00 AM
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Duration of Mandala

> *Dr Raghavendra Bhat+91 8956610988d...@gmail.com
> <drbhat...@gmail.com>*

[Bijoy]

I just saw in Valmiki the term प्रकृतिमण्डलम् (II, 105, 15 GitaPress edition).
It is in reference to the assembled people.
It seems by Valmik's time मण्डलम् has gotten itself used as a collection of discrete objects.
So, follows the later term like भूमण्डल in the Bhagavatam and सौरमण्डल in astronomical literature.

[sunil bhattacharjya]

At times one can see a halo or circle around the Moon. Some people call that as Chandra-Mandala and it is believed that there is a heavenly meeting with the Moon at the center, mostly discussing about the weather. In common parlance, a Mandal could mean a circle of gathering.

Regards,

--

[Hnbhat B.R.]

The word "mandala" has got a number of usages with the number of the
groups varrying in the context of the group consisted. Only the number
varry and not the meaning, a collection or circle of, or even a
diagroam circular.

it is compounded with the word prakritii, which means people, which is
used as a technical term the 7 constituents of a kingdom.

स्वाम्यमात्य-सुहृत्-कोश-राष्ट्र-दुर्ग-बलानि च ॥१७ ख॥
राज्याङ्गानि प्रकृतयः पौरानां श्रेणयो ऽपि च ।१८


स्वाम्यमात्यः सुहृत् कोषो राष्ट्रं दुर्गं बलं तथा।
पौरश्रेणी च राज्याङ्गं प्रकृतिश्च भवेत् द्वयम्॥" इति शब्दरत्नावली॥

So though the constituents may differ, the meaning of mandala does not
differ as you can see through out the discussiuons.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

[Nagaraj Paturi]

That the word maNDala has several different meanings and that circle, enclosed area, perimeter, round disc, delineated land are etc. are the principle meanings from which other meanings could be laakshaNika extensions has already been discussed.  

 

But the thread initiator requested to focus only on maNDala as duration of time.

 

he said,

 

"Please read definition of the term 'mandala' as definition of duration of mandala" 

--

Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[shankara]

Namaste,

I thank all scholars who responded to my query about duration of mandala and helped to clear my doubt to certain extent, by explaining the concept of mandala and also by providing quotes from Ayurveda, Yoga, Stotras and other scriptures.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2015 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Duration of Mandala

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I think with this message from the thread initiator This thread should be closed Thanks to all who participated in discussions on this thread.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।