New thread- IVC symbols Decoding using Ashtadhyayi- Panini Samskrutham
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
1. I have started this new thread : IVC symbols Decoding using Ashtadhyayi- Panini Samskrutham.
Reference is the X-post below.
Additional reference is at Indus Inscriptions by Yajnadevam - https://indusscript.net/
More can be gleaned from earlier writings- posts of Dr. S. Kalyanaraman.
The X-Post connects IVC seals and Panini Sutras by a ‘Script Decoding’ to arrive at the narrative to understand IVC through Paninian lens.
2. IVC and Panini Samskruth traditions carry a deep connect to the Pride of Nation and Identity by Language foot prints. The debate needs inputs from multiple disciplines and scholars to assess the impact.
IVC seal numbers are available at the link referred to.
3. Reason to Share-1: This connects ancient knowledge which is digitally distributed and shared.
Reason to Share -2: The site owner-scholar makes the following claim:
The Indus script was provably deciphered by Yajnadevam in 2022.
This site transliterates and translates the entire corpus of Indus inscriptions.
Reason to share -3: The content –connection challenges Language-Scholarship-Historicity related debates, affecting the ‘Bharateeya Civilizational continuity of Narrative and Home Team narrative across ‘Samskruth- Tamil- Other Indic Language families and History of India – ‘(Discovery of India / Bharat Ek Khoj) Education.
4. The quest/question/s to explore, amongst many are ::
Do we have any academic – Inscriptional/ other-wise evidenced classical study of ‘Material Media- Writing system /symbols for Panini-Samskrutham ? More specifically for IVC seals- carrying a public discourse narrative, which needs to address a Time- gap of Known Panini (700 BCE circa) and ancient civilization at least a few millennia before Panini?
What was that compulsive- Community -Mechanism for choice of ‘Samskrutham’: to be the preferred Language for Social Stable Sustained Transmission of a Tradition and civilization? When ‘Academicians claim that ‘ Bharath Land scape was ‘proliferated with several NON-SANSKRIT/ Proto Sanskrit (?) – Prakrit languages?
What was Panini’s inheritance from IVC? While Panini refers to Ramayana, Mahabharata, Vedas, did grammarian of his stature consciously ignore ‘a Vibrant IVC – Eco system and history of his own nativity?
What did IVC inherit from Ramayana and Mahabahrata / Prior Vedic resources? A Date line issue ? Dating challenge for linguists using ‘ Post Paninian and ‘Tower of Bable Linguistic models’?
If ‘Srimad Bhagavad-Gita’ as ‘Present Known - Stable text’ , and used by all three ‘Acharyas’ is a part of dynamically expanded Mahabharata (Claimed to be fixed to a date 3139 BCE- (though disputed by some (?!), Why was Gita kept sacrosanct and allow its wrapper of transmission to expand from a skeleton frame of 10,00 verses to one lakh plus allowing free inclusion by the name of Sage Vyasa and Suta-Puranika tradition ? Do we need a course correction for the existing public narrative of IVC in public domain ??
Do we carry a Common Public History Narrative of Home Land Scholars and Language Analysts across major Indic religions: Vedic Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism – who have dipped extensively to the use of ‘Samskruth Langauge by Panini Standards?
The Indus Valley Civilisation .. was a Bronze Age civilisation in the north western regions of South Asia, lasting from 3300 BCE to 1300 BCE, and in its mature form, from 2600 BCE to 1900 BCE. Together with ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, it was one of three early civilisations of North Africa, Southwest Asia and South Asia, and of the three, the most widespread, its sites spanning an area including much of modern-day Pakistan, north western India and northeast Afghanistan. The civilisation flourished both in the alluvial plain of the Indus River, which flows through the length of Pakistan, and along a system of perennial monsoon-fed rivers that once coursed in the vicinity of the Ghaggar-Hakra, a seasonal river in northwest India and eastern Pakistan.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation )
Look forward for scholars inputs.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nagaraj Paturi
Sent: 03 February 2025 13:40
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Abhishek Mehta
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bypassing or downloading protected content on sites
Prof BVK Sastry avare,
This seems to be a digression. Please start a different thread.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 1:35 PM BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop) <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shashi Joshi
Sent: 03 February 2025 00:04
To: Abhishek Mehta
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Bypassing or downloading protected content on sites
abhishek ji,
i strongly suggest you get down your high horsie first.
you think you alone know tech? and progress and evolution?
that is not the point of this discussion.
this discussion is about a certain site that doesn't want their content to be copy pasted by visitors.
if you have more altruistic goals, maybe you pay them some money so they make it all public!
buy them out!
or whatever.
get your own team, type it out, all options are open.
but you can't judge them for not letting their effort be available to COPY AND PASTE FREELY.
they are allowing you and everyone access to come and read on their site - aren't they?
maybe you don't understand basic common sense.
your expectation that they should make it free is flawed.
even the govt who has bought rights for hundreds of international research journals etc and providing them for free to educational institutions - why are they not making it free to ALL?
there are people who are not affiliated to any educational institutions, and can make some contributions - you know, retired uncle types?
but, you know what gets me ROFLing ?
you are a phd in some super cool sciency sh1t, and you are going to change the world, but you don't know how to google and find out ways to circumvent javascript?
go check IDM, pay for it, and have fun.
but, please get off that ridiculous pony horsie of your, you keep trotting on.
learn to be a little less haughty, if that is the right word.
and stop thinking in terms of generations, young and old, new phd and retired uncles
doesn't do your stature or career much good with that kind of boxed thinking, like tonga horse with blinders!
good night
Thanks,
~ Shashi
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 11:47 PM Abhishek Mehta <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
I don't think you understand how evolution and progress actually works. The new generation shouldn't have to spend their time, energy and effort in order to pay for access to the knowledge of the older generations for themselves to work on. They should straight away spend all of that to build upon the knowledge and advance it further. This is how progress takes place.
These websites are like museums where the relics of a dead civilization are kept for viewing and if you pay they may open the glass casings for you to touch and play with them. And the reason you and the website owners find that appropriate is because you have no faith that there is anything to build upon these texts or advance them. That is why you think Vishnu Purana, Ganesh ji etc. don't make justifiable points. But unlike you and others, I have faith and more than that I have ideas and hypotheses to test out and papers to write on them. And if I can get them out for free I can spend that money somewhere else.
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 2:52 AM Shashi Joshi <shas...@gmail.com> wrote:
abhishek ji,
if the site wanted everyone to have free access they would have given that.
they chose to say, hey we put effort, time and money, so we want you to come to our site and see the content.
maybe they have a paid version of the data, i don't know.
whether you want the data freely or not, that is your choice, but you can't justify taking their data because vishnu purana, ganesh ji, or bad quality ... those are besides the point.
and an admin of a group indeed has the duty and right to enforce the rules and policies of the group. he is not acting alone.
GRETL e.g. has free versions of many of sanskrit works, they are funded by university. so good work, freely available is also there, just like all of open source software!
having said all that, there are indeed technical ways to extract any data, as long as it is seen on your screen, there are shorter or longer ways to get it. and that would take time and effort as well :)
Thanks,
~ Shashi
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 3:25 PM Abhishek Mehta <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
I don't think anyone disagrees that digitization costs money, time and effort. Or any of it is easy. But it is also true that the finished product often is not of very high quality. For example, valmikiramayana.net itself has so many errors. It is a momentous undertaking no doubt but it is of mediocre quality at best. The same issue is there in Wikisource Sanskrit. So the so-called money, time and effort are not spent well enough to get a final product that has outstanding quality. So to expect people to donate for efforts that at best leads to a mediocre quality is I think expecting too much.
Similar arguments are made regarding commentaries and translations of these texts. But after being betrayed by so many of them I decided to spend my own time, money and effort to study sanskrit language and grammar myself so that I do not have to rely on them anymore. And I can very well see a similar direction I may have to undertake in the future for having grammatically correct, searchable and copyable sanskrit texts. But meanwhile I will make use of whatever technological tricks that I can get my hands on.
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 6:18 PM Yogananda CS <sriran...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste,
As a person involved in many digitisation efforts, I can vouch for the fact that such efforts cost a lot of money, time and effort. Raising required funds is not easy. Vishnupurana is free but to make it available for wider use does cost. If one wants to use such resources they ought make an attempt at donating to such causes.
Regards. . . . .yoga
On Sun, 2 Feb, 2025, 2:36 pm Sivasenani Nori, <sivas...@gmail.com> wrote:
Happy to discuss nuances.
It would have been wonderful had the owners of the site you mention made it public. They chose not to. We may ascertain the reasons from them, or indeed appeal to them to make the text public. All that is perfectly acceptable. Bypassing their explicit restrictions? Not so.
Similarly, since they made the text readable, you reading it is perfectly fine. Copying? Not so.
And to move onto constructive things, if Vishnu Purana is what we want, let all of us in BVP and elsewhere use our time to type a few verses a day and complete it. If you set up a wiki page or something like that, I am happy to do my bit for having caused udvega through my words.
Regards
N Siva Senani
FfasaOn Sun, 2 Feb, 2025, 2:13 pm Abhishek Mehta, <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
Well, your dharmic outlook requires expansion and nuance. Sri Ganesha also undertook the arduous task of scribing the Mahabharata. Do you see Sri Ganesha locking away the Mahabharata from everyone else and claiming ownership of it?
Similarly, typing out the digital version of the Vishnu Purana correctly without adding or deleting any part of it is the job of the scribes. And as I demonstrated they have not done the job perfectly. But that is the nature of the internet and kalyuga - nothing is perfect.
Also, it is my job as the reader to read the Verses of Vishnu Purana in as perfect a form as possible from whatever sources I can get them. Calling them stena or steya is a personal opinion at best.
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025, 5:23 PM Sivasenani Nori <sivas...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sri Abhishek ji
Namaste. First let me clarify the reason for stating what I did. In many instances, one does a number of things without applying much thought. For instance, photocopying of costly textbooks by University students. When queationed, all sorts of legalistic and moral arguments are advanced in favour of the act. There is a different framework to analyse it: Dharma. There I would say that it can at best be accepted as aapad dharma.
My intention in my email is to state that copying what someone has typed, when their actions imply that they do not want us to copy that, should be seen as steya. I hope to convince you, and other readers, that such indeed is the case.
Now I know that it is not pleasant that one's actions to be criticized in public. I submit that it be seen as an action which has not been thought through, and not as an intentional act.
The principle here is that if something is typed by someone, that instance of the text - ie the searchable text - is their property. Something like Vishnupuranam takes a lot of effort to be typed. If the person who typed it does not want it to be used, that wish ought to be followed. The disabling of copy functionality is analogous to locking it. The suggested hack is like picking the lock. Ought not to be done - from a dharmic viewpoint (I am not talking about legalistic or other viewpoints here).
Regards
N Siva Senani
On Sun, 2 Feb, 2025, 12:52 pm Abhishek Mehta, <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
I think you should be very careful by your choice of words. Wrong accusations are not part of dharma as well. And for your information, no one is stealing anything. Vishnu Purana is not a text authored by the site owners. It is a text that is already freely available but seldom in a form that is digitally searchable, copyable and grammatically correct. To protect an already available content is a demonstration of bad faith on the part of the site owners and bypassing that doesn't constitute 'steya' or 'stena'.
And speaking of 'stena' or 'steya' if you observe the version of the Vishnu Purana on the site I mentioned the first verse is supposed to start with
ॐ पराशरं मुनिवरं......
But on this site ॐ is removed from this verse. This is actual stena or steya. When the original author of the Vishnu Purana has granted access to the Pranava in His writings how can the site owners steal it away?
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025, 3:44 PM Sivasenani Nori <sivas...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sir
Very well said.
Many of us here, if not all of us, are committed (or at least aspire) to upload dharma. Some also study the dharmasastra. In that framework as well, Asteya is something we ought to practice.
Regards
N Siva Senani
On Sat, 1 Feb, 2025, 9:37 pm Nagaraj Paturi, <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear members,
If a site owner is putting some restrictions on his site, it is not justifiable to bypass those restrictions.
I request members not to continue this discussion further in the group.
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 1:34 PM Abhishek Mehta <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
Thanks. That worked perfectly. Do you know if there is a way to accomplish this on android devices as well?
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 4:15 PM Shubhendu Manna <242m...@gmail.com> wrote:
Generally these websites use JavaScript to protect content from copying.
If you are using Chrome I will suggest you to go site settings and disable JavaScript then you will be able to copy hopefully.
If it doesn't work then there is another solution but you need a computer for this. In computer go to the Chrome web store and search allow copy + .
After adding this extension and allowing it to run you will be able to copy.Regards
Shubhendu
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, 11:08 am Abhishek Mehta, <abhishe...@students.iiserpune.ac.in> wrote:
Does anyone know how to bypass protected content on sites like these?
These sites prevent selecting and copying of the contents and there are many such sites run by various organisations which are of relevance which rather unfairly protect contents in this fashion. If anyone knows how to bypass this please let me know.
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