A विष्णुभक्त's problem with शिव

[Mahamaho. Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

This विष्णुभक्त  tries to avoid शिव at every step --

1. वेङ्कटेश्वर -- He is श्रीनिवास (at Tirumala-Tirupati) rather than वेङ्कटेश्वर -- ईश्वर (here) means शिव ।

2. वीश -- Before the Matric system was introduced there used to be a different system (in Andhra) -- वीश is 1400 grams - पदलम् is 700 grams . This person wanted

वंकायलु ( Brinjal ) of one वीश - but there is problem - the word ईश means ईश्वर -- so he asked the vendor for two पदलम्s of वंकायलु । The vendor shot back - you mean a वीश ?  -- the same two पदलम्s -- you mean a वीश ? -- give me the same two पदलम्s . The poor vendor could not get the point (Philosophy) - weighed a वीश !!

3. शिवकोडि -- name of a village near मुंगण्ड (मुनिखण्ड , East Godaavari Disttrict , Andhra Pradesh) which is the birth place of Jagannathapanditaraya and myself).

He had some work in that village and enquired someone - how to reach विष्णुकोडि ? -- the person shot back - do you mean शिवकोडि? there is no विष्णुकोडि 

as such ! - the same विष्णुकोडि , which way? -- go straight for one kilometre then turn right -  there will be शिवकोडि , I do not know what your probelm is !

4. Stone in rice -- Generally it is thrown away . Rather this man thought - good chance! I am able to get him -- crushed the stone between the teeth.

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam

Prof of Sanskrit (Retd)

Adj Professor , Dept of Heritage Science and Technology

IIT , Hyderabad

Chairman , Bharateeya Vidvat Parishat

Ph:09866110741

https://sites.google.com/view/koradeeyam/home

[Krishna Kashyap]

Namaste Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam Ji,

Your recent email reminded me of a conversation between my teacher, Sri KSV, and HH Kanchi Paramacharya on the Siva Vishnu topic.

I've attached the document with details of this conversation.

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Yasoda Jivan dasa]

परात्परतरं यान्ति नारायणपरायणाः ।

न ते तत्र गमिष्यन्ति ये द्विषन्ति महेश्वरम्॥ इति कूर्मपुराणे 

यः शिवः सोऽहमेवेह योऽहं स भगवान्शिवः। नानयोरन्तरं   किञ्चिदाकाशनिलयोरिव॥ इति हयशीर्षपञ्चरातत्रागमे 

शिवाय विष्णुरूपाय। शिवरूपाय विष्णवे । 

शिवस्य हृदयं विष्णुर्विष्णोस्तु हृदयं शिवः।।

यथा  शिवमयो विष्णुररेवं विष्णुमयः शिवः।

यथान्तरं  न पश्यामि तथा मे स्वस्तिरायुषः ।। इति हरिभक्तिविलासे 

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[V Subrahmanian]

A very interesting anecdote pertaining to Trimuti Abheda from Skanda Purana describing how All the Three Trimutis are devoted to each other and do not go beyond one another.  

~ स्कन्दपुराणम्/खण्डः १ (माहेश्वरखण्डः)/कौमारिकाखण्डः/अध्यायः ४१       

https://sa.wikisource.org/s/gh5

Sages in Naimishāraṇya were beset with a question as to who among the Trimurtis was the Greatest.

॥करन्धम उवाच॥

केचिच्छिवं समाश्रित्य विष्णुमाश्रित्य वेधसम्॥
वर्णयंति परे मोक्षं त्वं तु कस्मात्तु मन्यसे॥ ४१.१ ॥

॥महाकाल उवाच॥
अपारवैभवा देवास्त्रयोऽप्येते नरर्षभ॥
योगींद्राणामपि त्वत्र चेतो मुह्यति किं मम॥ ४१.२ ॥

Even great yogis are deluded on the above question even though the Three Gods are of unmatched powers.  

[This statement of the Purana is mirrored in the Māyāpanchakam of Shankaracharya:

विधिहरिहरविभेदमप्यखण्डे
बत विरचय्य बुधानपि प्रकामम् ।
भ्रमयति हरिहरभेदभावा-
नघटितघटनापटीयसी माया ॥ ५॥

Alas! Maya (माया) makes the impossible possible. It creates the division of Brahmadeva (ब्रह्मदेव), Visnu (विष्णु), and Rudra (रुद्र) even in the undivided Brahman. It indeed deludes even the scholars such that they practice devotion divided between Visnu (विष्णु) and Rudra (रुद्र).]

पुरा किलैवं मुनयो नैमिषारण्यवासिनः॥
संदिह्यांतः श्रेष्ठतायां ब्रह्मलोकमुपागमन्॥ ४१.३ ॥

Who is the greatest among the Three?

Brahmā replied:

तस्मिन्क्षणे विरिंचोऽपि श्लोकं प्रह्वोऽब्रवीत्किल॥
अनंताय नमस्तस्मै यस्यांतो नोपलभ्यते॥ ४१.४ ॥
महेशाय च भक्ते द्वौ कृपायेतां सदा मयि॥

Vishnu and Shiva are unparalleled. My obeisance to them both. Let both be compassionate to me.

ततः श्रेष्ठं च तं मत्वा क्षीरोदं मुनयो ययुः॥ ४१.५ ॥
तत्र योगेश्वरः श्लोकं प्रबुध्यन्नमुमब्रवीत्॥

Vishnu said:

ब्रह्माणं सर्वभूतेषु परमं ब्रह्मरूपिणम्॥ ४१.६ ॥
सदाशिवं च वंदे तौ भवेतां मंगलाय मे॥

Brahma and Shiva are both Great  I bow to them and they shall bless me.

ततस्ते विस्मिता विप्रा अपसृत्य ययुः पुनः॥ ४१.७ ॥
कैलासे ददृशुः स्थाणुं वदंतं गिरिजां प्रति॥

Shiva said:

एकादश्यां प्रनृत्यानि जागरे विष्णुसद्मनि॥ ४१.८ ॥
सदा तपस्यां चरामि प्रीत्यर्थं हरिवेधसोः॥

During the Ekadashi vigil I dance in Vishnu's abode. I always practice tapas for the pleasure of Brahma and Vishnu.

श्रुत्वेति चापसृत्यैव खिन्नास्ते मुनयोऽब्रुवन्॥ ४१.९ ॥
यद्वा देवा न संयांति पारं ये च परस्परम्॥
तत्सृष्टसृष्टसृष्टेषु गणना काऽस्मदादिषु॥ ४१.१० ॥

The sages concluded:  When the Trimurtis themselves hold each other to be the Greatest, we stand nowhere. 

उत्तमाधममध्यत्वममीषां वर्णयंति ये॥
असत्यवादिनः पापास्ते यांति निरयं ध्रुवम्॥ ४१.११ ॥

Those who differentiate between the Trimurtis are liars and sinners and will end up in hell. 

एवं ते निश्चयामासुर्नैमिषेयास्तपस्विनः॥
सत्यमेतच्च राजेंद्र ममापीदं मतं स्फुटम्॥ ४१.१२ ॥
जापकानां सहस्राणि वैष्णवानां तथैव च॥
शैवानां च विधिं विष्णुं स्थाणुं चाप्यन्वमूमुचन्॥ ४१.१३ ॥
तस्माद्यस्य मनोरागो यस्मिन्देवे भवेत्स्फुटम्॥
स तं भजेद्विपापः स्यान्ममेदं मतमुत्तमम्॥ ४१.१४ ॥

Let him worship that God to whom he finds himself naturally drawn.  

This is the conclusion of Veda Vyasa through this episode. 

Hindi translation: 

https://www.getwisdom.in/index.php?flg=N&pmd=W&mdi=L&thm=2&vip=puran&puran=13+Skand&sec=2&chap=14&pn=157&act=back&cod=skanda&bn1=chap&bn=page

Vishnu is the foremost Shaiva - Skandapurana

Just as the statement 'वैष्णवानां यथा शम्भुः' of the Bhāgavatam (Shiva is the greatest Vaishnava) we have the statement:

'Nasti Shaivagranirvishnoh' (Vishnu is the greatest Shaiva) in this chapter of the Skandapurana:

स्कन्दपुराणम्/खण्डः १ (माहेश्वरखण्डः)/अरुणाचलमाहात्म्यम् २/अध्यायः ०४

https://sa.wikisource.org/s/h1w

नास्ति शैवाग्रणीर्विष्णोर्नास्ति रक्षा विभूतितः ।।
नास्ति भक्तेः सदाचारो नास्ति रक्षाकराद्गुरुः ।। ५६ ।।

 Also the Shiva purana says in this chapter:

शिवपुराणम्/संहिता २ (रुद्रसंहिता)/खण्डः ३ (पार्वतीखण्डः)/अध्यायः ३५

https://sa.wikisource.org/s/wk8

Yamaraja blesses Padma, a chaste woman: Let your husband be devoted to Shiva just as Vishnu is: 

शिवभक्तो हरिसमस्सिद्धस्तु कपिलात्परः ।।

Sridhara Swamin, at the invocation of his Bhagavata commentary, says:

माधवोमाधवावीशौ सर्वसिद्धिविधायिनौ। 

वन्दे परस्परात्मानौ परस्परनुतिप्रियौ॥ 

I bow to Mādhava and Umādhava (Shiva) who are both 'Isha-s' Supreme Lords. They are capable of bestowing all accomplishments (to their devotees). They are both the selves of each other and both love to engage in the stuti of each other.  

Veda Vyasa has said in the Mahabharata:

रुद्रो नारायणश्चैव सत्त्वमेकं द्विधा कृतम्। 

लोके चरति कौन्तेय व्यक्तिस्थं सर्वकर्मसु।। 12-350-27a 12-350-27b. 

[Rudra and Narayana are only two manifestations of One Principle.......]  

warm regards

subrahmanian.v 

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[Kalyan Chakravarthy]

> वेङ्कटेश्वर -- He is श्रीनिवास (at Tirumala-Tirupati) rather than वेङ्कटेश्वर -- ईश्वर (here) means शिव ।

The ईश्वर in वेङ्कटेश्वर is not a reference to शिव. It means Lord.

वेङ्कटेश्वर - Lord of the (mountain) Venkata.

We see extensive usage of the word वेङ्कटेश्वर by Vaishnavas.

In the main सुप्रभातम् - श्री वेङ्कटेश दयिते तव सुप्रभातम्

In the स्तोत्रम् - विना वेङ्कटेशं न नाथो न नाथः

सदा वेङ्कटेशं स्मरामि स्मरामि ।

हरे वेङ्कटेश प्रसीद प्रसीद

प्रियं वेङ्कटॆश प्रयच्छ प्रयच्छ ॥

In the प्रपत्ति (repeating several times) - श्रीवेङ्कटेशचरणौ शरणं प्रपद्ये

The above is sung everyday morning in Tirumala during सुप्रभात seva.

The सुप्रभात is composed by a Sri Vaishnava Acharya - Prativadi Bhayankara Sri Anantacharya.

The Bhagavad Gita also uses the words related to ईश्वर for कृष्ण.

भगवान् कृष्ण referring to Himself as महेश्वर - 

भोक्तारं यज्ञतपसां सर्वलोकमहेश्वरम्।

सुहृदं सर्वभूतानां ज्ञात्वा मां शान्तिमृच्छति।।5.29।।

यो मामजमनादिं च वेत्ति लोकमहेश्वरम्।

असम्मूढः स मर्त्येषु सर्वपापैः प्रमुच्यते।।10.3।।

अर्जुन addressing भगवान् कृष्ण as परमेश्वर -

एवमेतद्यथात्थ त्वमात्मानं परमेश्वर।

द्रष्टुमिच्छामि ते रूपमैश्वरं पुरुषोत्तम।।11.3।।

अर्जुन addressing भगवान् कृष्ण as विश्वेश्वर -

अनेकबाहूदरवक्त्रनेत्रं

पश्यामि त्वां सर्वतोऽनन्तरूपम्।

नान्तं न मध्यं न पुनस्तवादिं

पश्यामि विश्वेश्वर विश्वरूप।।11.16।।

भगवान् कृष्ण referring to Himself as ईश्वर -

उत्तमः पुरुषस्त्वन्यः परमात्मेत्युदाहृतः।

यो लोकत्रयमाविश्य बिभर्त्यव्यय ईश्वरः।।15.17।।

यस्मात्क्षरमतीतोऽहमक्षरादपि चोत्तमः।

अतोऽस्मि लोके वेदे च प्रथितः पुरुषोत्तमः।।15.18।।

There are several such examples of the word ईश्वर used in a Vaishnava context.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणम्

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Google's AI Overview :

 Early Azhwar saints, including Poigai Alwar and Peyalwar, have described Lord Venkateswara (Tirupati Balaji) as a combination of Shiva and Vishnu (Hari-Hara) in their hymns. 

Here are the key details regarding this description:

• Hari-Hara-Samaikya Murti: In some of the older pasurams (verses) of the Azhwars, the Lord of Tirumala is described as having attributes of both Vishnu and Shiva.
• The Specific Verse: While sometimes attributed to Poigai Alwar, the specific verse describing this synthesis is often noted in Peyalwar's Moondram Thiruvanthathi (verse 63). It describes the Lord with matted hair (Shiva's Thazh sadai), a tall crown (Vishnu's Neen mudi), an axe (Shiva's Mazhu), a Chakra (Vishnu's discus), an encircling snake, and a golden waist band.
• The Interpretation: The verses highlight the lord of Tirumala as "two forms in one" (Hari-Hara), signifying that Vishnu is the Antaryami (inner self) of Shiva.
• Context: This portrayal emphasizes that the Supreme Brahman is one and appears to devotees in the form they choose to worship, or a blend of both. 

Later Reinterpretation:
While the early Azhwars (Poigai, Bhoothath, and Pey) described this combined form, later Vaishnava Acharyas, particularly Ramanujacharya, focused on identifying the Tirumala deity strictly as Vishnu. Ramanujacharya established the idol's identity as Vishnu, subsequently reducing the emphasis on the Shaivite attributes. 

However, the historical hymns of the early Azhwars (collectively part of the Naalayira Divya Prabandham) still hold these descriptions of the combined form of the Lord. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana-500044