Re: Bahlika
navaratna rajaramnavaratna
--Sir, will you please write on the identity of Barbara as a tribe, land, caste or anything else. it is frequently referred to in the MBH and the Puranas. Please also write, if there is a reference to an alternative name of the Hunas? Regards, spnarang
From: "gira...@juno.com" <gira...@juno.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 6:10:22 AM
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: {भारतीयविद&# 2381;वत्परिषत्} BMAC
Nov.2, 2010Respected Scholars, Namaskar!Ancient name of BactriaDear Dr. D. Bhattacarya, Thanks for your information. You are right. I do not believe many conclusions of Prof. Witzel. Now here is my information on Bactria.From the book of Savitri SaxenaPage 104. Dr Raychaudhuri places Kurus in Vahlika (Bactria) and not within any territory in India proper. Mahabharata refers to Vahlika PrAtipeya who was the second son of the Kuru king Prateepa. He was paternal uncle of Bhees’ma. Vahlika and Madra were sister provinces. Kuru, Kamboja, Shaka, Vahlika and Madra and Stree Rajya were outside the boundaries of the subcontinent.At the time of Mahabharat, there was no Pakistan, Afghanistan, Persia, Iran. There were kingdoms including India. Kingdom of Magadha was the most powerful because of Jarasandha.Please understand that this information does not demote the ancient history of Mahabharata or Bharata. Behind the history of Mahabharata, the history of the whole Eurasia is hidden. Thanks. N. R. Joshi
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com>
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} BMAC
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:02:17 +0530 (IST)
Bactria was balihika(AV. Paippalâda-Saṃhitâ),bahl/lhika(AV Úaunakîya-Saṃ.). There was an Indian name, perhaps Vâhlîka. The two are sometimes confused. The AV might have known of Bactria from traders. Witzel speaks of some direct connexion of the AV with Bactria but that is a wrong inference. Discussions on this have been made by me twice – in 2005 (Indische Kultur im Kontext : Ed. Lars Göhler, Harrassowitz, 2005) and Introduction AVP Vol.3, Asiatic Society, Kolkata (to be out this month or the next.)
Best
DB
--- On Mon, 1/11/10, gira...@juno.com <gira...@juno.com> wrote:
From: gira...@juno.com <gira...@juno.com>
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} BMAC
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 12:26 AM
October 31, 2010Respected Scholars, Namaskar!Bactria-Margiana Archaeological ComplexReference-Posting of Dr. D. Bhattacharya dated Oct 27 on this list.I am glad Dr. Bhattacharya, you brought up the subject of BMAC. We had discussion on this topic last year in Dec. 2009. I have the paper of Dr. B.B. Lal-His Inaugural address at the 19th International Conference on South Asian Archaeology,Italy, 2007. He does not go to the ancient names of Bactria and Margiana. So I am asking question first to Shree Arun Upadhaya, then to you and then to other scholars-what were the ancient names of Bactria and Margiana at the time of the epic war? It is said that the name Bactria was given by Greeks. Margiana is Merv (Turkmenistan) of the known history. However I am looking for ancient names.The idea is to understand Mahabharat history. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.____________________________________________________________--
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अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
____________________________________________________________
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अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
Arun
Shakti-sangama, bahlika is identified as Balkha town in Persia. King
Bhoja of Malva had gone to Bahlika with 10000 troops, when Prophet
Mohammed saought his help. many among his army helped in his crusade-
who were called Mohyali as per Islamic History published by Ahmedia
sect-Arun
On Nov 4, 7:21 pm, navaratna rajaramnavaratna
<rajaramnavara...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Vahlika or Bahlika was the name of the country later called Bactria by the
> Greeks. They were related by marriage to the Kurus and other royal families.
> If my memory serves me right, their king Bhurishravas was killed by Arjuna
> in the MB War as he was about to kill Satyaki.
>
> N.S. Rajaram
>
> 2010/11/4 S P Narang <spnar...@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> > Sir, will you please write on the identity of Barbara as a tribe, land,
> > caste or anything else. it is frequently referred to in the MBH and the
> > Puranas. Please also write, if there is a reference to an alternative name
> > of the Hunas? Regards, spnarang
>
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* "girav...@juno.com" <girav...@juno.com>
> > *To:* bvpar...@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wed, November 3, 2010 6:10:22 AM
> > *Subject:* {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re:
> > Bactria was *balihika*(AV. Paippalâda-Saṃhitâ),*bahl/lhika*(AV
> > Úaunakîya-Saṃ.). There was an Indian name, perhaps Vâhlîka. The two are
> > sometimes confused. The AV might have known of Bactria from traders. Witzel
> > speaks of some direct connexion of the AV with Bactria but that is a wrong
> > inference. Discussions on this have been made by me twice – in 2005
> > (Indische Kultur im Kontext : Ed. Lars Göhler, Harrassowitz, 2005) and
> > Introduction AVP Vol.3, Asiatic Society, Kolkata (to be out this month or the
> > next.)
>
> > Best
>
> > DB
>
> > --- On *Mon, 1/11/10, girav...@juno.com <girav...@juno.com>* wrote:
>
> > From: girav...@juno.com <girav...@juno.com>
> > Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} BMAC
> > To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 12:26 AM
>
> > October 31, 2010
>
> > Respected Scholars, Namaskar!
>
> > Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex
>
> > Reference-Posting of Dr. D. Bhattacharya dated Oct 27 on this list.
>
> > I am glad Dr. Bhattacharya, you brought up the subject of BMAC. We had
> > discussion on this topic last year in Dec. 2009. I have the paper of Dr.
> > B.B. Lal-His Inaugural address at the 19th International Conference on South
> > Asian Archaeology,Italy, 2007. He does not go to the ancient names of
> > Bactria and Margiana. So I am asking question first to Shree Arun Upadhaya,
> > then to you and then to other scholars-what were the ancient names of
> > Bactria and Margiana at the time of the epic war? It is said that the name
> > Bactria was given by Greeks. Margiana is Merv (Turkmenistan) of the known
> > history. However I am looking for ancient names.
> > The idea is to understand Mahabharat history. Thanks. N.R.Joshi.
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!<http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210>
> > --
> > अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> > ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> > तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
> > निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
>
> > --
> > अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> > ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> > तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
> > निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > *Globe Life Insurance*
> > $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
> > <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4cd0afb237a6d23a9bst06vuc>
> > CoverageFor1Dollar.com<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/4cd0afb237a6d23a9bst06vuc>
>
> > --
> > अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> > ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> > तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
> > निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
>
> > --
> > अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
> > ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
> > तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
> > निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
S P Narang
> > {भारतीयविद&#
> > 2381;वत्परिषत्} BMAC
Dr. T. Ganesan
Sri Arun wrote:
King
Bhoja of Malva had gone to Bahlika with 10000 troops, when Prophet
Mohammed saought his help. many among his army helped in his crusade-
who were called Mohyali as per Islamic History published by Ahmedia
But historically King Bhoja of Malva is said to have ruled in the 9th century
while Mohammad lived in 6th century......... How is it possible, then, Bhoja
helped with his armies,,,,,,
We have to take this informations carefully.
Ganesan
subrahmanyam korada
BAhlika / BAhlIka -- BAhIka -VAhIka
Amarakosa says (2-Vaisya) bAhlikam is Asaphotida / Hingu -
sahasravedhi jatukam bAhlikam hingu ramatham - here the derivation is
- the one that has come from the country - bAhlika . RAmatham means -
the one that has come from the country
'rama.tha .
The other meaning of BAhlikam / BahkIkam is saffron ( from 'bahlikadesa' ) -
Amara - 2- Manusya - kasmIrajanmAgnisikham varam bahlikapItanam
Still another meaning is - the horse from "BAhlikadesa' -
Amara - 2- Ksatriya - vanAyujah pArasIkAh kAmbhoja bAhlikA hayAh
Amara - NAnArtha - bAhlikam rama.the'pi ca.
PAninisUtram - vAhIkagrAmebhyasca (4-2-117) - KaumudI - bAhIkagrAmebhyasca .
Under 'dityadityAdityapatyuttarapadA.n.nyah ' ( 4-1-85) -
VArtikam - bahi.sa.s.tilopo yan(ca) ca -- bahirbhavo bAhyah .
VArtikam - Ikak ca -- bAhIkah .
VArtikam - Ikan(ca) chandasi -- bAhIkamastu bhadram vah .
Under 'avyayAttyap' ( 4-2-104) , Patanjali offers names of some
VAhIkagrAmas --
ArAt , kAstIrah , dAsarUpyam , sAkalam , sausukam .
The people of VAhIkadesa are considered to be 'adhamAdhikArinah' ,
that'swhy the popular example - gauh vAhIkah , gAm pAthaya (Patanjali)
.
I do not know as what the term is that is used for Prophet Mohammad in
PurAnas but one should be very careful in such matters --
on 27/11/2008 (significant)I was invited by a Muslim Organization to
represent Hindu Religion
(also someone to speak on Christianity) . The Muslim speaker quoted
Ravisankar and said
that a Sanskrit word in Vedas (all) refers to Mohammad and there were
so many such Prophets
earlier , i.e. since time immemorial .
Pundit Ravisankar should have not said so .
dhanyo'smi
--
Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)
Dipak Bhattacharya
20 11 10 Dear and Esteemed Colleagues, I request you to consider a few points raised below by me. Will it be quite fruitful to try to find evidence about Bactria from Puranic statements. As has been established by several scholars, Vedic evidence is more dependable than Puranic because of the continuous re-edition and recasting of the latter. Did not the Mahabharata, according to its own statement, exist first in 8800, then in 24000 and finally in 100000 verses? What Sukthankar had at hand was even larger so that he admittedly tried to reach as near as possible to the said Śatasāhasrīsṃhitā and not further beyond. For such reasons the Atharvavedic evidence appears to me to be of maximum importance in determining the relation between Bactria and mainland India. According to that Bactria was a cursed land plagued with diseases causing remittent fever. It was indeed the homeland of takman that is fever. This picture fits into the known pre-history of the land. Bactria, born of the alluvial soil of the two biggest rivers of Central Asia, is a fertile land. Before the introduction of iron implements it had to be, like the Terai region, the favorable breeding ground of malaria and kala-azar. For this reason the Atharvaveda knows it as a cursed land, though its evidences speak for traders of the Vedic age keeping contact with the land. That would be natural as Indian glass made way to Iran, most probably through Bactria that was on the Silk-Route. But it was never the coveted land for the Vedic people. The soldiers left by retreating Alexander might have somewhat changed the landscape when the actual iron-age history of Bactria began. Any golden age of Bactria before that, and even after, has to be regarded as myth. Indeed there remains the BMAC to take account of. The facts gathered by me from the reports of several excavations (French, Soviet) carried on from the seventies till the early eighties pertain to pre-iron age settlements based on harrow-cultivation that came to an end around 1500 BCE. How does one relate that to the out and out iron-age production that is the Mahābhārata. I do not deny that the Mbh and the Purāṇas may have recorded memories of lost pre-iron-age civilizations but it is erroneous to see them as contemporaneous with the reported “Lost Atlantean” civilizations. I note some postings on iron in India in the third millennium BC. I shall be glad to have evidences. Till now the majority opinion favours its origin in iron-smelting factories of the Hittite empire. After the dissolution of the Hittite empire (1200 BCE) the secret techniques were carried to faraway lands including India. Without strong evidence to the contrary the theory of any other origin has to regarded as less dependable. But I WILL see them as authentic. None will be gladder that me if that happens. Best wishes DB |
S. Kalyanaraman
Dipak Bhattacharya
C14 dating is possible with organic matter. How can that apply to iron?
Best
|
S. Kalyanaraman
S P Narang
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Bahlika