Question on Svara-s in Krishna Yajur Veda (KYV)

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Krishnan S

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Aug 12, 2013, 5:43:27 AM8/12/13
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My Current Understanding: While learning KYV prsna-s, we are introduced to three Svara-s (Anudaatta, Udatta & Svarita). We are informed that Anudatta refers to 'lower' pitch, Udatta to slightly ;higher' pitch and Svarita to still a higher pitch. 

Also we came across an article ('A Monograph on the Svara-s of Taittiriya Krsna Yajur Veda by Shri. Sriramana Sharma) wich states that Anudatta is weak svara and equal to 'Rishaba' of musical scale, Udatta is equal to 'Gandhara" and Svarita is equal to 'Panchama'. This also confirms that as we move from Anudatta, through Udatta to Svarita , we ascend from lower pitch to higher and the to still higher pitch

My recent Observation But Panini's Sutra-s (1.2.29, 1.2.30, 1.2.31) mention that 'UccaiH UdattaH, 'NeecaiH AnudattaH' & SamahaaraH SvaritaH'). In Taittiriya Praatisaakhya also we come across the same as Sutra-s (1.38, 1.39 & 1.40). What do they mean?  Do they imply that Svarita's pitch lies in between Anudatta &  Udatta.

My Question  My observation seems to be in conflict with my understanding. I am sure that I am missing something. Requesting the erudite members of the e-group to enlighten me

Thanks

Krishnan
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VKG

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Aug 13, 2013, 12:43:32 PM8/13/13
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Dear Krishnan

Swaras are tricky issue for scholars or researchers. The position (Higher/ lower) is relative.
Swarita as it is uttered these days, does not seem to be extremely compatible to the principles of Lakshana (Vyakarana/ Siksha). More research and practical experiments with modern gadgets would fast track the process of finding the precision.

As such, we all accept the current practices, though we are convinced that it might not be perfect.
Regards
VKG

vishnu namboodiri k

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Aug 13, 2013, 1:09:42 PM8/13/13
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In kerala, they start "i shey tvaa..."from lower pitch and go up to make udaatha and take a right turn so that to come in between the previous two for making svaritha.For this they have "svaritha: karnamooleeya:" (Panineeyasiksha).Whereas, Karnatakates,Tamiliyans and Andhrates start "i" lower, then go  "shey"
up and again go up to get svaritha for "tvaa".  But actually a vowel happens to fall either udatta or anudaatta or svaritha internally. Not externally.So we can neglect the action of hands or heads during the accentuation. Ofcourse, the action of hands and head play an important influence on the correct falling of vowels. An expert can make these three without any movements of either head or hands. In paninisiksha , the movement of hands accordingly is appreciated and that of head is not. This is to avoid a mal-influence of head-movement in the correct falling of svara. At the same time , hand-movement is necessary to get an awareness of one's own accent. Moreover, ucchairudaatta etc are just an explanation on it, the very sound changes are not flexible to be explaned.The guru-parampara is the only last word. This is my conclusion on the context.    

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Nityanand Misra

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Aug 13, 2013, 11:58:48 PM8/13/13
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On Monday, August 12, 2013 5:43:27 PM UTC+8, Krishnan S wrote:


My recent Observation But Panini's Sutra-s (1.2.29, 1.2.30, 1.2.31) mention that 'UccaiH UdattaH, 'NeecaiH AnudattaH' & SamahaaraH SvaritaH'). In Taittiriya Praatisaakhya also we come across the same as Sutra-s (1.38, 1.39 & 1.40). What do they mean?  Do they imply that Svarita's pitch lies in between Anudatta &  Udatta.


I do not know about the different practices in all oral traditions across India. 

However, in my opinion your interpretation of the Sutra 1-2-31 समाहारः स्वरितः is not correct. The Sutra does not mean that Svarita has a pitch that lies between those of Udaatta and Anudaatta. समाहार does not mean "between", rather it means collection, assembly or combination. So the Sutra is better interpreted as "that which has the combined features of both Udaatta and Anudaatta is Svarita." How are these features combined in a Svarita? This is explained in the next Sutra 1-2-32 तस्यादित उदात्तमर्धह्रस्वम्. The Svarita has the features of the Udatta (high-pitch) for the initial half-instant and Anudaatta (low-pitch) for the remaining part. In other words, Svarita is a "falling pitch", and not "pitch between Udaatta and Anudaatta". Note that Panini does not mention the exact frequency/pitch in the Ashtadhyayi. He also does not say that the initial high-pitch in Svarita has the same frequency as the Udatta, and the later low pitch in Svarita has the same frequency as Anudatta.  

The Paniniya Shiksha has this verse (based on which, I think, Srirama Sharma has given the Svara-pitch mappings) - 

उदात्ते निषादगान्धारावनुदात्त ऋषभधैवतौ। 
स्वरितप्रभवा ह्येते षड्जमध्यमपञ्चमाः॥

My understanding is that this verse corresponds to the following mapping on the musical scale, with two notes given for each Svara (four = 2 x 2 for Svarita)


Saa - Svarita pitch (after the initial half-instant)
Re  - Anudaatta pitch
Ga  - Udaatta pitch
Ma  - Svarita pitch (initial half-instant)


Pa  - Svarita pitch 2 (after the initial half-instant)
Dha - Anudaatta pitch 2 
Ni  - Udaatta pitch 2
Saa - Svarita pitch 2 (initial half-instant)

For more on this, you may want to refer works on Vedic accent. Some good works in Hindi are Sauvarah by Dayananda Saraswati, Vaidika Svara Mimamsa by Yudhishthir Mimamsaka and Vaidika Svara Samiksha by Amarnath Shastri. They are  available on scribd and DLI.

विश्वासो वासुकेयः

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Aug 14, 2013, 12:39:17 AM8/14/13
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आर्य, पाणिनीयशिक्षा भिन्ना, कृष्णययुर्वेदशिक्षा भिन्ना। सुलभम् उदाहरणम् तु उभययोर् अनुनासिकोच्चारणभेदः। भवान् साक्षात् श्रीरमणशर्माणं प्रष्टुमर्हत्य् (jamadagni इति gmail सङ्केतेन) एव। https://sites.google.com/site/jamadagni/ इत्यत्र तस्यान्या आलेखा लभ्यन्ते।
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