Ancient pronunciation of ai (ऐ ) and au (औ ) in Sanskrit

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Radhakrishna Warrier

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Aug 1, 2021, 11:38:27 PM8/1/21
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What was the ancient pronunciation of ai ( ) and au ( ) in Sanskrit?  

 In modern south Indian languages and modern Indo Aryan languages like Marathi and Gujarati, the pronunciation is a+I and a+u respectively.  However, in standard Hindi and Punjabi, it is different.  Ai is pronounced somewhat like ae and au is pronounced almost like ‘o’ but with a small variation. 

I have a vague memory of my high school Malayalam teacher saying that ai is actually a conjunct of a and e but pronounced like the conjunct of a and i.  I believe the standard Hindi and Punjabi pronunciation came from Persian pronunciation through Urdu. I suspect that diphthongs ai and au vanished from Indo Aryan a long time ago as they became e and o in Prakrits and later Apabhramshas. Ai and au re-entered modern Indo Aryan through Sanskrit tatsamas. I have also heard Biharis and people from eastern UP pronouncing the Hindi word कैसे as kaise and not as the standard Hindi kaese. 

Regards,
Radhakrishna Warrier

Achyut Karve

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Aug 2, 2021, 1:11:56 AM8/2/21
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Dear friends,

ऐ and औ in spoken colloquial Hindi are pronounced as अँ and ऑ as in apple and ox in English.  The point is why did these vowel sounds not become a part of Sanskrit language when they are so common in world languages.

What forbids their usage in Sanskrit?

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

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Achyut Karve

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Aug 2, 2021, 1:12:01 AM8/2/21
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Dear Friends,

Has any one tried to write rules so that words from other languages can be brought into usage in Sanskrit 'chastely'?

With regards,
Achyut Karve.

विश्वासो वासुकेयः

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Aug 2, 2021, 11:36:32 PM8/2/21
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keyur joshi

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Sep 8, 2024, 11:53:05 AM9/8/24
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Dear Friends

These are my thoughts-

Shiv, the way our collective memory represents him, is a symbol for Homo Erectus (similarities in the meaning of शिव and erect are no co-incidence imho.) Maybe, some other homo species. But not sapience.

Sanskrit evolved form language that was used by Shiv. It was a period of ice age (हिम-आलय) where Shiv lived.

Differences in anatomy and climate affect sounds that can be made.

Sanskrit pronunciation we know is influenced and modified by post-ice-age usage by homo sapience.

It is not possible to know the exact original sound of many वर्ण in the language used by Shiv. Language of Maheshwar Sutra we have inherited.

some examples are - Shiv’s language had distinct and लृ. They were svara. What we are using in their place is surrogates. 

There were two in Shiv’s language. We can speak two , but can hear only one.

So, who can say how and originally sounded? I don’t think anyone can. It is lost in the flow of time.

Regards

Keyur

BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)

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Sep 11, 2024, 12:42:46 PM9/11/24
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Namaste Keyur Joshi

 

You are raising an interesting question and making a tall claim that needs a clear  answer.

Responding specifically to you pointed question :

  < So, who can say how and originally sounded? I don’t think anyone can. It is lost in the flow of time.>

Answer: Any One Trained to use ‘Bhashaa’ as per standards set  for application of  ‘Vedas’ in Yajna- Yoga     

                 Which needs  ‘Shikshaa and Vyakarana’ foundation of ‘Bhashaa’ taught in ‘Vedanga’ framework.

 

For this, Steps needed are(a) One needs to learn ‘VEDAS- Recitation’ by Tradition. ( To begin with).

                                                    This is first step Training to Produce Intricate Resonating Sound by hearing it.                    

                                                          Which is real technicality of ‘Music’ learning as a skill

                                                          Which is real technicality of ‘Language- Usage Learning’

                                                          Which is real technicality of ‘ MANTRA- RESONANCE’ learning

                                                     For which the technical term is ‘Shabda-Smruti/ Chitta Vrutti’- YOGA is needed.

 

The teaching pedagogy technical detail is called ‘Vak-Yoga/ Vako Vakyam /Yoga Samskrutham/ Mantra- Akshara – Uccharanam.

 

Modern Science Research is exploring this area under the tags of - Neurolinguistics, MindBrain Sciences, Science of Consciousness studies and the like, using advanced instrumentation and techniques of fMRI, fNIR (Functional near-infrared spectroscopy - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_near-infrared_spectroscopy ).

 

(b) After learning ‘Vedas on the foundation of ‘Vedanga – Shadanga- pedagogy’ ( Shikshaa – Pratishaakhya included), with skills acquired for use of basic unit-phonemes (Varna- Swara / Swara- Akshara) articulation (as seen in Shiva Sutras) for Yajna- (Mantra)-Prayoga / Japa – Parayana Technicality,  One understands the  clarity of ‘SHIVA SUTRAS’ as  ‘BEEJA- AKSHARA MANTRA (AKSHARA BRAHMA / SHABDA BRAHMA-)YOGA- Units (Ref: ‘Akshara Brahma Yoga : Gita: 8-12: - yadaksharam veda-vido vadanti ), the clarity emerges on how to use ‘0905- scripted symbol for all its 18 varieties (and practical significance of Gita:10-33).

 

(c) After this, the clarity emerges on ‘why shiva sutra sequence is --and not other wise as a- /i/e- u phonemics.

This is Human Centricity of Voice Primes and Primaries of Samskrutham.

(d) After  -- clarity,  the technicality of Parah- Sannikarshah- Samhitaa- Sandhi as technical  combinatorial expansion (=Varna-Yoga) as Guna (-) and Vruddhi (- ) will become clear.

This is  NATURE’s STANDARD which goes BY HUMAN –Physiological Structure and Process. Panini recognizes this and acknowledges as ‘मानुषी standard of pronunciation to vision Veda ( Daivee/ Chandas).

                            Anyone who knows this can < say how and originally sounded > and even now,

                            ‘Articulate - Train- Validate’ Right sounding of ‘Shiva sutra- Varna- Akshara – Samaamnaaya’.

 

                             When ‘Panini Samskrutham’  base is studied using the lens of  (a) IE – Linguistics ( b) Anglo-

                              Phonetics (c ) Desi Prakruth – simulated ‘Akshara – Maalaa’ as taught in schools,

                              the Vedanga – Shikshaa technicality of ‘Shiva –sutra –Varna Akshara-Samaamnaaya-

                              Darshana’ is pushed to back ground/ below carpet (if not let go down the drain!).  

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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संस्कृत संवादः

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Sep 17, 2024, 12:50:23 AM9/17/24
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Isn't ऑ Just अनुदात्त ओ?

सोमवार, 2 अगस्त 2021 को 10:41:56 am UTC+5:30 बजे Achyut Karve ने लिखा:
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