Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas

[Anilkumar Veppatangudi]

I am looking for references as to how different groups of people follow different Vedas and their branches. Gothra is not the answer as we find people of the same Gothra following different Vedas and their branches. Can someone please enlighten?
Regards,

V.R.Anil Kumar

http://www.kalpaheritage.com

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

Freezing of the clan’s śākhā affiliation is not an ancient thing, nor is there any Vedic injunction favoring it. But at present changing of śākhā is discouraged. In 1988 a Vaidika in Bombay shuddered at the idea when I asked about the  possibility the practising (pāṭhābhyāsa) of Paippalāda-Saṃhitā mantras by Southern or Deccan Vaidikas. His disapproval was strong and final. Paippalāda mantras have been practiced since then, nevertheless. There are still some evidences for the late development of the idea of fixed clan affiliation. In 1987 I met Āpastambins in Andhra who primarily recited Taittirīya mantras but could sing sāmans and recite Atharvavedic mantras. They demonstrated their skill and informed me that their teacher – the head of the family in this case – had learned these in Varanasi. No clan restriction! Best DB   --- On Sun, 27/3/11, Anilkumar Veppatangudi <veppat...@gmail.com> wrote:

-- अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।। तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[Madhav M. Deshpande]

Dear Anilkumar,

I have a forthcoming article on the contested relations between some
Vedaśākhās. But here is an interesting discussion on this issue from
the Saṃskāragaṇapati of Rāmakṛṣṇa:

Rāmakṛṣṇa cites a number of traditional authorities (Saṃskāragaṇapati,
pp. 9-10):

tathā cāṅgirāḥ -

sve sve gṛhye yathā proktās tathā saṃskṛtayo 'khilāḥ /
kartavyā bhūtikāmena nānyathā bhūtim ṛcchati //

gṛhyakārikāyām api -

pāramparyagato yeṣāṃ vedaḥ saparibṛṃhaṇaḥ /
tacchākhaṃ karma kartavyaṃ tacchākhādhyayanaṃ tathā //
adhītya śākhām ātmīyāṃ paraśākhāṃ tataḥ paṭhet /
svaśākhāṃ tu parityajya śākhāraṇḍaḥ sa ucyate //

tathā ca vīramitrodaye vasiṣṭhaḥ -

yacchākhīyais tu saṃskāraiḥ saṃskṛto brāhmaṇo bhavet /
tacchākhādhyayanaṃ kāryam anyathā patito bhavet //

Śākhāntarīyakarmakaraṇe doṣam āha vasiṣṭhaḥ -

na jātu paraśākhoktaṃ budhaḥ karma samācaret /
ācaran paraśākhoktaṃ śākhāraṇḍaḥ sa ucyate //
ya˛ svaśākhoktam utsṛjya paraśākhoktam ācaret /
apramāṇam ṛṣiṃ kṛtvā so 'ndhe tamasi majjati //

The only concession Rāmakṛṣṇa offers is that a person can accept rites
prescribed in another śākhā if they are not described in one's own
śākhā, and do not contradict one's own śākhā. This, he supports with
a quotation from Kātyāyana :

yannāmnātaṃ svaśākhāyāṃ paroktam avirodhi ca /
vidvadbhis tad anuṣṭheyam agnihotrādikarmavat //

With such strictures, the various śākhās of the Vedas gradually
evolved into Jātis, sub-caste communities with distinct social
identities, and the relations between them became ever so complex.
There are lots of historical accounts detailing the actual instances
of conflicts between śākhā-communities, some of which are covered by
scholars like the Late Professor C.G. Kashikar of Pune. Others are
detailed in a Sanskrit work titled Vedavicāra attributed to a
Śāmaśāstrī Draviḍa Dvivedī going back to around 1880s. An edition of
this work with a Marathi translation was published from Vai,
Maharashtra, in 1912, by Kashinath Shastri Lele, because there were
some śākhā-disputes that were raging in Maharashtra around that time,
especially relating to the status of the Maitrāyaṇī community in the
region of Nasik, as well as a dispute among the Śukla Yajurvedins of
Maharashtra. I have collected four manuscripts of this text and
completed a critical edition. Currently working on translation and
annotation of this text. Interesting evidence about such conflicts
comes from the documents of the Peshwa court, as well as the histories
of various Brahmin communities published by the various caste
associations. I have mostly looked at the documentation from the
region of Maharashtra, but I am sure such documentation can be found
from other regions.

With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA


On 26 Mar, 20:24, Anilkumar Veppatangudi <veppatang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Ram Sharma]

We may request Rashtriya SanskRtasaMsthaanam whose campuses are scattered all around the country to organise a national workshop on this burning issue of cultural interest and to authorise a committee representing  the various regions concerned to write out a modern GRhyasuutra on  this burning issue(a sort of Paramalaghusiddhaantakaumudii)

 A similar modern Dharmashaastra has also to be attempted .While I was in SampurNananda SKT Univ ,a committee was formed under the leadership of PaTTabhiramashastri.But nothing concrete could be achieved.But no harm in making fresh efforts.

     

ityaashaaste kashcit

   Sanaatanaaryadharmaa viniitaH

---

From: Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu>
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 9:44:03 AM
Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaskar Prof Deshpande: During your research and examination of documents from Peshawa court, did you come across any evidence which documents performance of "satyanaaraayaNa puujaa" during that period.  Accountants of Peshwa court were known for their meticulous accounting of funds, donations ... etc. Thanks Best regards, Yadu

--- On Sun, 3/27/11, Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu> wrote:

From: Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu> Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas To: "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

The problem is the determination of the age when these strictures came into effect. There are inscriptional evidences to show that some Atharvavedins had become Yajurvedins in the early centuries of the current era. The Atharvaveda is known as the Bhṛgvaṅgiroveda. The Śunakas are Bhṛgus but just look into how many Ṛgvedic ancillary works they composed. I myself am a Kevala-Bhṛgu Śunaka but traditionally Ṛgvedin. It is the same case with the Āṅgirasas.  The imposition of the family limitations, their developing into śiṣṭācāras are interesting but definitely medieval developments. Many many such inhibitions grew in the middle ages. I can say with evidence that even the prohibition of Śūdrayajana is not Vedic. Best DB --- On Sun, 27/3/11, Ram Sharma <ramkara...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ram Sharma <ramkara...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

[Madhav M. Deshpande]

Dear Dr. Moharir,

I have only consulted the published volumes of the Peshwa Daftar,
and I have not seen any reference to the Satyanarayana Puja. Will
look again and let you know if I find anything. The published
documents are a miniscule fraction of the unpublished documents.
There are 56000 bundles of documents preserved in the Peshwa Daftar
office in Pune, and most have not even been catalogued. I went there
a few times, but it is very hard to access anything unless you already
know the location of a document.
Another source for this kind of puja is to look up the
Vratakhanda of the Caturvargacintāmaṇi of Hemādri. Will see if I find
anything there. Best,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[Madhav M. Deshpande]

Dear Dr. Moharir,

Here is what I find about the Satyanarayanavrata in
Mahamahopadhyaya P.V. Kane's History of Dharmashastra:

P. V. Kane, History of Dharmaśāstra, Vol. V, Pt. 1, p. 437, Government
Oriental Series, Class B, No. 6, Bhandarkar Oriental Research
Institute, Pune, 1958"

"Satya-Nārāyaṇapūjā-Vrata-Very popular in Bengal and Maharashtra:
described in Bhaviṣya. (Pratisargaparva) chap. 24-29 ; M. M. Hara
Prasad Shastri in cat. of mss in the Asiatic Society's Library,
Calcatta, vol. V. preface p. LXV says that the worship of
Satyanarayana (ms. No. S570) has a Mahomedan origin. It was originally
(and even now in many places) called 'Satyapirer puja.' It occurs in
the Revakhanda of the Skandapurāṇa (Vangavasi ed ) but does not ocour
in the Venk. Press edition. Vide also JBORS vol XVI. at p. 328 where
the same scholar says that the Mahomedan custom of offering 'Sirni' to
Satyapir was adopted by Bengal Hindus as worship of Satyanarayana.
This is a vrata very popular among lower middle-class people and
women. Vide I. A. vol 3 pp. 83-85 for stories current in Bengal about
this Vrata. It is said that Narada was told about this Vrata by Visnu
himself. On any day a man worships Satyanarayana and offers
naivedya of 1 1/4' quantity (such as 11/4 śer or maund) of plantains,
ghee, milk and wheat flour (or rice flour), jaggery or sugar; all
these to be mixed up for naivedya; performer should listen to the
stories and partake of the prasada, jāgara with songs, music, dance;
then people go to their houses; this yields all desired objects;
stories about a brāhmaṇa who performed this vrata every month, of a
vendor of wood, of a trader named Sādhu with a ship full of
merchandise and costly things and his daughter Kalāvatī. In these
stories Satyanārāyaṇa. is represented as very jealous and vindictive.
The stories are said to have been taken from Skandapurāṇa, Revā-
khaṇḍa."

There may be other publications relating to the history of this Vrata,
but here is what Kane says.

Best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

[Anilkumar Veppatangudi]

Thanks for the responses.Any references to how groups became Rg Vedins, Yajur Vedins etc. apart from the Shakhas?
Anil Kumar

2011/3/27 Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu>

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

--

V.R.Anil Kumar

http://www.kalpaheritage.com

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

Esteemed Scholars,
Regarding the SatyanAraAyaNaVrataKathA,this is said to be in the Skanda PurANa as has also been said by P V Kane,but no portion of this episode is there in the same purANa.One can trace this in the last part of the BhavishyaPurANa with certain difference.This view i quote from the introduction of a recently published book on SatyanArAyaNavratakathA which is in Hindi poetry (mAtrika Chandas) by Pandit ShivnarayanShastri of Bhiwani,Haryana.It seems some version of SkandapurANa might have been their earlier which contained this episode and might have entered the Bhavishya in a slightly altered form.During the Moghuls and influence of Sufism it seems to have taken the form of Satya PIra KathA in Odisha and Bengal etc.areas.
Regards,
SMMishra

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

--

*****
Surendramohan Mishra
Dept of Sanskrit,Pali & Prakrit
Faculty of Indic Studies,Kurukshetra University
KURUKSHETRA-136 119,Haryana,INDIA
Tel : (Off.)01744 238410(extn.)2504
(Mob.)098960 86579;(Res.)01744-238567
Blogs : http://surendrashastram.blogspot.com
            http://surendra-shaastram.blogspot.com

[Sivasenani Nori]

I have a friend - Raghavendra (speaks Kannada at home) - who is an Yajurvedi by birth but due to various circumstances has learnt Rigveda (about 10% remaining to be learnt) and works as a purohita amongst the followers of Rigveda - mostly speakers of Marathi. When reciting mantras which occur in both Vedas (say Purusha Suktam or gaNAnAm tvA...) he slips into the Rigvedic mode (the anusvAra is a big difference) but then quickly adjusts to the Yajurvedic way of chanting when others present (who know only the Yajurvedic way of chanting) chant in the Yajurvedic way. I guess by the time he begets children, they might become Rigvedins.

 

Regards

N. Siva Senani

2011/3/27 Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattach...@yahoo.com>

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

Such as this that Shri Senani has related,are peculiar though quite normal cases in the context of olden times.The knowledge of the same s'AkhA was handed down from generation to generation in the same lineage,but many times there were deviations.It's a belief that mantra-s uttered according to the family s'AkhA are loved by the departed forefathers and a purohita was always appointed who knew the yajamAna's s'AkhA.I remember how difficult was it to find a SAmavedin for performance of a wedding or thread ceremony as the only SAmavedin family in my village had no knowledge of SAmaveda karmakANDa since the last few generations and the only SAmavedin priest in our area had passed away and his son was a mere cook.
In this connection one thing i remember as i was told in my boyhood that KaNva,the seer,lived in the house of a Rigvedin and developed a habit of chanting of Yajus mantra-s in a Rigvedic style.Hence we have a Rigveda-like pronunciation in the KANva recension of the S'ukla Yajurveda.AbhiyuktAs tatra pramANam.
Regards,SMMishra

2011/3/28 Sivasenani Nori <sivas...@gmail.com>

--

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

I greatly appreciate the spirits with which Prof.R. K. Sharma ji has endorsed the need of having a modern g.rhyasUtra and a dharmas'Astra.It's again gratifying to note that a Vaidika and MImA.msaka of the order of Pt PaTTAbhirAma S'AstrI ji also approved of this.In fact so much time has passed since the last g.rhyasUtra or dharmas'Astra was composed.It's never too late resume it again.This g.rhyas'Astra or dharmas'Astra ought to be in accordance of some s'AkhA.Thus we need many such works to come up in different areas in India and abroad where people of Indian origin are there.But the author must be one that commands the highest honor in the aspects of knowledge and conduct !
I very well remember,before a few years while in Sagar University during a seminar in the Univ. Guest house,in the night after dinner a discussion was somehow initiated and Prof. Navjivan Rastogi of Lucknow was emphatic that a new dharmas'Astra was long overdue to be written.I tried to comprehend his argument with all respect for the tradition but asked as to who would do this.
A PaTTAbhirAma could do this,but certainly there is someone or are there many who in good time would come out to take the lead in this direction ! sa sampradAya.h parivardhatA.m na.h /Om .
Regards,SMMishra

--
अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।
ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः।
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Dear Prof Deshpande: Thanks for taking trouble to reproduce the entire passage. I do have Dr Kane's Book on Dharmashastra and had seen this specific commentary. That was one of the reason why I was trying to see if there is any documented evidence for migration of this ritual from Bengal to the South (via - Maharashtra !!) and meticulous documentation from Peshwa accounting could possibly furnish such evidence. There are many Sanskrit scholars from Southern India on this list who may be able to shed some additional light on this ritual and why it may have gained popularity in the South? If the origin of this vrata is Muslim then does this not mean that Hindu's should be grateful to them for this contribution to the and why have not Sanskrit scholars belonging to RSS or Political Muslim organizations have not taken any issues with this has always puzzled me. IMO - Popularity of this ritual probably lies in the fact that Women and lower caste members of society are not barred from performing it and did not have to depend on a Brahmin priest for performing it. Bhaagavata expresses this explicitly striishuudradvijabandhuunaa.m trayii na shrutigocaraa | iti bhaaratamaakhyaana.m kR^iopayaa muninaa kR^itam || bhaagavata (1.4.25.), So the culprit for limiting the rituals to Brahmin class needs to shoulder the blame as well. Could the later additions of various thing in many puraaNaa's may have been an easy solution to create acceptability under the the favorite "samanvaya & parishikaara" mode of operation for Hindu's scholars !? Now a days, looks like Lakshmi has also accepted "dollars" as a the currency of choice.  Even most famous temples from India conducts SatyanaaraayaNa puujaa over phone by a remote control control, dakshiNaa is naturally charged to a credit card in Dollars. Again. thank you for your prompt response. Best regards, Yadu

[subrahmanyam korada]

namo vidvadbhyah

SatyanArAyan.avratam

Origin - PurAn.as .

Patan~jali in Paspas'Ahnika , under the R.k - sudevo asi varun.a .. , comments 'satyadevo'si' .

 Eligibility - generally  people belonging to all castes perform  and it is stated in the VratakathA .

 For that matter even S'Udras etc should pray to  sandhyA(amantraka)-'rAjan apriyasya ca  pathyasya vaktA  s'rotA ca durlabha.h' - MahAbhAratam  - aharaha.h sandhyAm upAsIta - Veda .

Here in Andhra women or  men  do not perform this Vratam alone  although it wo'nt be amiss to do so .

Why so popular ? because there are the results to see individually .

We do not believe that  the Vratam is learnt from Mlecchas (Muslims) for obvious reasons .

BrAhman.a Purohita is a must for the Vratam . A Vedic Scholar may perform on his own . In Andhra,  YAjn~ikas are those Purohitas who go  to the houses of BrAhmanas only and others are called Purohitas .

Telephone Vratam etc do not yield the expected result .

Kalpa.h --

It is a KAmyakarma , i.e. neither Nitya (SandhyAvandanAdi) nor Naimittika (Abdika/ Gr.hapraves'a etc)

PAn.ini - maskaramaskarin.au ven.uparivrAjakayo.h (6-1-149) , maskarI = parivrAjaka.h (sannyAsI)

Patan~jali on the above - mA kuruta karmAn.i mA kuruta karmAn.i iti ya Aha sa.h maskarI .

BagavadgItA - kAmyAnAm karman.Am tyAgam sannyAsam kavayo vidu.h (18-2) .

S'AmkarabhAs.yam etc - for 'cittas'uddhi ' one may perform kAmyakarmas also ( i.e. a sannyAsI also and say 's'reekr.s.n.Arpan.am)).

Userful Mantras from Veda - Gan.apatipUjA, Naks.atrayas.t.i , Navagrahamantras  etc.followed by VratakathA in verses (also prose).

Duration - 1.5 to 2 hours roughly .

Occasion - - After -VivAha ( done by vara and vadhU ), Gr.hapraves'a , Aparakarma (after performing SAmvatsarika of a dead person, for S'uddhi ) , returning from TIrthayAtras, completing daughter's/son's marriage .

In villages across Andhra,  RMP (Registered Medical Practitioner) Doctors  send invitations and perform this Vratam during Festive Season (i.e. when the crop arrives at home ) so that the farmers , who received medical services , pay a lump sum   amount to the Doctor .
 Some families perform this every year due to devotion .

Special Occasion -
There is a popular temple of SatyanArAyan.asvAmy  at 'Annavaram'  , roughly 200 km from Vis'Akhapatnam on East Coast (Bay of Bengal) / on National High Way 5 ( from Chennai to Kolkata) , East GodAvari Distrist, Andhra Pradesh, may be the only one of its kind .
It is a very ancient temple and people throng to perform Vratam as well as Marriage . SAmUhikavratam(group performance) is also done .
'SaatyanArAyan.a' - is a common name in Andhra ( rarely in BIhAr) .

dhanyo'smi

2011/3/29 Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com>

--
Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)

[subrahmanyam korada]

namo vidvadbhyah

Gotras - Vedas  & SAkhas

 During ancient times all the four Vedas were being learnt --

Manusmr.ti (3-1,2)-

s.t.trims'adAbdikam caryam gurau traivedike vratam I
tadardhikam pAdikam vA grahan.Antikameva vA i ( Brahmacaryam for 36/18/9 years) .

vedAnadhItya vedau vA vedam vApi yathAkramam I
aviplutabrahmacaryo gr.hasthAs'ramamAvaset II

(They used to learn S'Iks.A , VyAkaran.am etc. during AnadhyAyas -

TaittirIyAran.yaka prescribes - during rain , lightening , thundering , AmAvAsyA  one should not recite Veda . Manusmr.ti added some more AnadhyAyas . So among Tithis, As.t.amIs, Caturdas'is, PUrn.imA, AmAvAsyA,and Pratipats are AnadhyAyas .

AnadhyAyes.van'gAnyadhIyIta  - Dharmas'Astram )

Nowadays , most of the Vedic  scholars do know only one Veda .

So , there are S'Akhas - at the end of  SandhyAvandana(also while doing 'abhivAda'  to an elderly person) a TaittirIya says - .....'yajus's'AkhAdhyAyI subrahman.yas'armA aham bho abhivAdaye' .

One should follow his Vedas'akha and the Gr.hya thereupon strictly . If something is missing then he may borrow from other S'Akha.

In Andhra the marriage , Upanayanam , Abdikam etc is performed as per the Vedas'Akha .

Of late, people here started giv9ng  more importance to the Laukikas'Akha , such as - VeginAd.u, VelanAd.u, DrAvid.a, TelagAn.ya etc and forgot the Vedas'Akhas .

Again there are differences among  SmArta (AdvaitI) , Vais.n.ava , MAdhva etc in terms of Marriages etc. The problem becomes serious when there is a cross-marriage . The general rule is that the bridegroom's tradition prevails .

There are books in Telugu which are useful in identifying the S'Akha(Laukika) , Gotra, R.s.is of a Housename .

dhanyo'smi

2011/4/1 subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Professor Korada: Thank you for additional information.  You are detailed notes are always a treat. The question I have are the following: 1.  satya - naaraayaNa is a compound name that we commonly associate with the kaamyavrata.  However, it does not appear in the viShBusahasranaama.  Would that not suggest that this was a formulated (compounded) at a later date? For this reason I was seeking possible historical evidence from the Peshwa period in Maharashtra. 2.  In Orissa there are folk stories which suggest that "satyapiira" appears in the form of  an "Old Brahmin" at the time of need. 3.  The objectionable part fro this vrta that has always nagged me is the "vindective nature" of this deity.  Is there any place in our vedika or pauraaNIaka literature where Vishnu is depicted as being vindictive? 4. As per puujaa kathaa, this vrta was performed by a women (Kalavati & Lilavati).  Could this have been a simplistic way for the society to create a non-prohibitive platform for performing the ritual for all by eliminating the absolute necessity and dependence on a priest ! 5.  Could please elaborate of the svaadhyaaya and the recitation of sulabhAH puruShA rAjan satataM priyavAdinaH | apriyasya tu pathyasya vaktA shrotA cha durlabhaH || ma bhaa udyogaparva 37.14 || Any additional comments will be appreciated. Best regards, Yadu --- On Fri, 4/1/11, subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ram Sharma]

Better we  do not attack the world of Shraddhaa ,Bhakti and Vishvaasa represented by SatyaNarayaNa

with such pedantic elaborations of all types.

    " AcintyaaH khalu ye  bhaavaa na taaMs tarkeNa yojayet"

 The very fact that this SatyaNarayaNavrata is a panIndian Vrata should be enough to convince us about the universal nature of this vrata.Myths like DraupadiiciiraharaNa cannot be dismissed as unreal simply because they donot appear in the printed critical edition of MBH.CF Gita 3.26

 Na buddhibhedaM janayed ajNaanaaM karmasaNginaam/

---

From: Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com>
To: bvparishat Group <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:34:12 AM

[Nabanarayan Bandyopadhyay]

Dear Prof. Mishra, I would like to draw attention to the scholars that Swami Vivekananda once expressed his desire to his disciple Sharat Chadra Chakrabarti to write a new Smriti text suitable to the then society and religion. Unfortunatenly, because of his untimely death, it could not see the light of the day. Best wishes, Nabanarayan Bandyopadhyay --- On Mon, 28/3/11, Surendra Mohan Mishra <dr.surendramo...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Surendra Mohan Mishra <dr.surendramo...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

[Shrinivasa Varakhedi]

Dear Professor Mishra ji and other scholars, 

A Dharmashstra smriti text is written and published by prof. P. Sriramachandrudu Hyd. The name of the smriti is koundinya smriti. This is published along with eng translation by the author himself. 

This deals with the codes n conducts on the basis of spirits of sanatana dharma, keeping modern life and it's changes.

Regards, shrivara

Sent from my iPhone 9849030580

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

श्रीमन्तो वंद्योपाध्यायवर्याः,
कश्चिन्ममाष्टमपुमान्पुरुषोत्तमस्य पुर्याम बभूव महतां खलु माननीयः /
विद्वान्गदाधर इति स्मृतिकाररत्नं स्वाभिख्यया स्मृतिमियेष स लोकहेतो: //
नानामतान्युपदधंश्च  विचार्य कालं यत्नाद्दिदेश स समाजहितं वरेण्यम /
कर्माणि येन सकलानि जनश्चरेत नित्यादिकानि विधिपूर्वकमार्यचित्तः //
सो'यं प्रयोगस्य निदर्शनाय ग्रन्थः प्रणीतो विषयो नवीनः /
क्वचित्स कालं च परीक्ष्य शास्त्रं तेने श्रुतिस्मृत्युपलक्षितम नः //
'पुराणमित्येव न साधु सर्वं न चापि काव्यं नवमित्यवद्यम /'
गुणैकचक्षु: समयं परीक्ष्य नवं विदध्याच्छ्रुतिदृष्टवर्त्म //
पाराशरी या स्मृतिरुच्यते ह तस्मात्परं प्राय इहास्ति नैव /
काचित्स्मृतिर्या परिभाषणाय कालोचिता स्यादिति सन्मतिर्नः //
'तातस्य कूपो'यमिति ब्रूवाणाः क्षारं जलं कापुरुषा: पिबन्ति' /
तातो व कूपं समये स्वहेतो: परार्थमप्यत्र तनोति विद्वान //
एतन्न जाने न हि तद्विजाने किमत्र कार्यं वत तद्व्रतेद्धा: /
जानीयुरित्येव त एव तत्र प्रमाणभूता: किल सन्तु सन्तः //
विदुषां विधेयः
सुरेन्द्रमोहनमिश्र:

2011/4/1  Nabanarayan Bandyopadhyay <naba_n...@yahoo.com>

[Ram Sharma]

SaanugrahaM vadatu , kiM  sulabhaa smRtiH saa

Gaadaadharii navayuge'py anupaalaniiyaa ?

---

From: Surendra Mohan Mishra <dr.surendramo...@gmail.com>

To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:31:41 PM

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

Dear Anilkumar

there are instances that some saamavedins of korlahalli (near gadag in karnataka) became rgvedins due to difficulty in performing duties  of saamaveda becasue of non-availability of purohits. this is the most prominent difficulty faced by these minorities.

स्ववेदव्रतयुक्तस्य सर्ववेदगतास्वपि।

अधिकारोस्ति विद्यासु नावेदव्रतिनः क्वचित्।। इति व्यासस्स्मृतौ (मध्वाचार्याणाम् आथर्वणोपनिषद्भाष्ये उदाहृतम्)

2011/3/28 Anilkumar Veppatangudi <veppat...@gmail.com>

--

Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Head, Dept of Darshanas,
Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि।

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

2011/4/2 Ram Sharma <ramkara...@yahoo.com>

[Surendra Mohan Mishra]

AcArya-satpraNati-pUrvakam e.sa vacmi
GAdAdhrIti khalu Paddhatir eva sA na.h /
yat tat prayoga iti me kathita.m purA nu
tadvad yathA bhavati nirNaya-sindhur addhA //
dvis'ata-var.s-purAtano granto'ya.m samAs'rIyate samprati /
sarvathA tu sAmprata iti navayuge na vaktum Ihe 'ham //
sAk.sAt smritir nAsti yathA vadanti grAme kuliinA.h vata paddhati.h sA /
bheda.h sa kas'cit khalu nirNaye ca prayoga-puste 'tha ca paddhatau ca //

vinIto vidvatsu
s'rIsurendramohanamis'ra.h

2011/4/2 Ram Sharma <ramkara...@yahoo.com>

[Bhagwan Singh]

Respected scholars, With reduced mobility and almost perfect isolation in which I work, I have my obvious limitations. But I feel Satyanarayana Vratakatha in in line with much older stories in which the merchants failing in observance of triratna (truthfulness, nonviolence and celibacy) had to suffer as sadly as far as I recall. Bengal and Orissa both coastal provinces appear to have developed a Brahmanic version of the Buddhist stories. Hindu converts to Islam appear to have made their own modification, not the vice-versa, whatever be the opinion of our adorable scholars. BS

--- On Fri, 1/4/11, Ram Sharma <ramkara...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[subrahmanyam korada]

Namo vidvadbhyah

Dr Yadu's questions --

1.'Satyanarayana' is a compound not found in SahasranAma and as such the Vratam was formulated later - Historical evidence ..
Yes , Satyanarayana is a Karmadharayasamasa .
Just like Vemkateswara , Daksinamurti etc. it must have come into existence . In sagunopasana it is possible - ekam sat viprA bahudhA vadanti .

2.In Orissa - satyapeera appears in the form of an Old Brahmin at the time of need --

But as the other scholar sugested it might have come thru Hindus who got converted into Muslims . On the other hand , there are other such stories and it is difficult to account for such non-Vedic and non-Puranic stories . You know there are a number of  Ramayanas in folk lore .

3.Vindictive nature of the deity - any evidence in Vedic/Puranic Literature to show Vis.n.u was vindictive--

We know  that S'rIkr.s.n.a  maintained patience for 100 mistakes of S'is'upAla .

 He vowed - dharmasamsthApanArthAya sambhavAmi yuge yuge .

 In S'AmkarabhAs.yam (VedAnta)  there is 'Vais.amyanairghr.n.yAdhikaran.am' , which says that it is unfair to attribute 'hatred' or 'cruelty' to Is'vara .
Many such examples . No deity is vindictive , much less Vis.n.u . Then why such narration ? --

MImAmsAdars'ana (2nd adhyAya) discusses the concept of 'ArthavAda' , i.e. the sentences of 'stuti'
(commendation) and 'Ninda' (condemnation) , Such sentences are not ot be taken seriously and are meant to generate an urge in the mind of the reader to perform  the  rite . The sentences you came across may fall under this category .
In YogAnus'Asana 'titiks.A' ( ks.amA) is taught as a quality .
'ativAdAn titiks.teta' (one should have patience towards bad criticism)- says Dharmas'Astra ..
No diety is depicted as vindictive .
One's  foul language would punish him if not retaliated .

4. As per VratakathA,  KalAvatI and LIlAvatI performed the Vratam - a simplified way created to do without a priest --
Strictly speaking , one should learn the PUjAvidhAnam and should not depend upon a Priest . Without AdhikAra in Veda , one can do with S'lokas . For example Navagrahas'lokas .

Women also had had AdhikAra in Veda long ago --

purA kalpes.u nArIn.Am maunjIbandhanamis.yate I
adhyApanam ca vedAnAm sAvitrIvacanam tathA II

 But as the time went on there were the problems of 'mAsikadharma' etc . Even today women in families such as ours take rest and be separate from household duties --

pan~came'hani s'uddhissyAt daive pitre ca karman.i (Dharmas'Astram)- s'uddhi is on fifth day . So VedAdhikAra for women is curtailed .

5.1. SvAdhyAya
It means 'svas'AkhAdhyAya' - the recitation of R.ks'AkhA/ Yajus's'AkhA etc regularly .

MImAmsA quotes - svAdhyAyo'dhyetavya.h - this is from the second AdhyAya of TaittirIyAran.yakam , popularly known as 'SvAdhyAyabrahman.am' .
The  text that follows - yam yam kratum adhIte tena tenAsyes.t.am bhavati .
The Niyamas mentioned there --
during day or night ,one may  stand,on the move , sit, lay down , in grAma or aran.ya should do SvAdhyAya .
AnadhyAyas (when one should not recite) - while it is raining , there is lightening , thundering , gale
and AmAvAsyA ( if done the Tapas will get burnt) . If one is 'As'uci' he is not eligible .

5.2. sulabhA.h purus.A rAjan satatam priyavAdina.h I apriyasya ca pathyasya vaktA s'otA ca durlabha.h II(udyoga - BhAratam)

Here  the word 'purus.a'(person)  is used to refer to both men and women (i.e. Lin'ga is avivaks.ita) .

O! king ! there are people who always say good things (things that you certainly like )only . But it is difficult to get a vaktA or s'rotA who pays attention to  a thing that is not liked but is good ( in the right path)

There are people who always praise yourself and your hundred sons . But it may not be to your taste if one says - give five villages , after all , to Pan.d.avas ( and avoid a war).

'pathye sati gadArtasya kim aus.adhanis.evan.am' ( if one takes food that is suitable to his constitution why medicine even if he got some disease ?
'pathye'sati gadArtasya kim aus.adhanis.evan.am' ( why medicine if one takes unsuitable food and got some disease ?)

2011/4/3 Bhagwan Singh <bhagw...@yahoo.co.in>

[Madhav M. Deshpande]

Dear Anil Kumar,

To give you a few more sources regarding the disputes concerning
switching the Śākhās and Sūtras, you may want to consult the important
treatise by the Late Mahamahopadhyaya Vasudeva Shastri Abhyankar:
Sūtrāntara-parigraha-vicāra. This small work was published by the
Anandashrama in Pune in 1922. This work tries to answer some of the
then boiling disputes. The other work is a small treatise composed by
Kashinatha Vishvanatha Sathe: Sarvārtvijyaprayogasāra, published from
Wai in Maharashtra in Śake 1837, (publisher: Damodar Lakshman Lele,
Modavṛtta Mudrālaya). This work also deals with related issues,
especially the question of whether the Upanayana in one Śākhā entitles
one to study other Vedas and other ŚĀkhās, or whether one needs a
separate Upanayana to study each different Veda and Śākhā. The third
source is an unpublished work by Vasudeva Shastri Abhyankar, found in
manuscripts in Pune, titled: Yājuṣa-hautra-vicāra. This work deals
with a dispute among Maharashtrian brahmins raging around 1900
concerning whether a Taittirīya Yajurvedi yajamāna needs to hire a
Ṛgvedin priest to conduct the hautra portion during a sacrifice, or
can he hire a Taittirīya Yajurvedi priest to do the hautra function.
I have an unpublished article dealing with the details of this last
dispute. If you don't have access to some of these materials, write a
personal email to me. Perhaps I can give them to you during your next
visit to Ann Arbor. Best,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On 26 Mar, 20:24, Anilkumar Veppatangudi <veppatang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[sadasivamurty rani]

About separate Upanayana for studying each new sakha I would like to give an example from my known Circle. Brahmashri Kapilavayi Agnihotra Sastri was our Family Guru in the Vedic Studies. He is no more now. But he was a Chaturvedi. For studying all the Four Vedas he had Upanayana Samskara for four times in his life time. Fifth time also he had Upanayana for studying Dravida Veda. Such a dedicated Vedic scholar he was. He was a great authority of his times in the Vedic studies and all Yajnic performances too.   I have some collected material about the Gotras and Sakhas which may be useful to the prusuing members. At present my scanner is not working. Soon I get it back in good condition I shall scan the pages that I have with me and upload here. Warm Regards, Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

--- On Tue, 5/4/11, Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu> wrote:

From: Madhav M. Deshpande <mmd...@umich.edu> Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gothras,Vedas & Shakhas To: "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>