Dipesh Katira
Dear Group Members,
dhaval patel
Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
dhaval patel
On a related issue - In Ubuntu, what input-method-editor do you use for typing devanagari and other indian scripts?thanks.
उज्ज्वल राजपूत
This is a question which has kept me from shifting to ubuntu full fledgedly. Looking forward to hear from others.
Also, there are keyboards using which one can type क by pressing 'k' and ल by 'l', प by 'p', etc. But I won't recommend these "phonetic" layouts if you want to type devanagari for long time. The default Gedit text editor also works.
Praveen R. Bhat
--Praveen R. Bhat
/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
You can create own keyboard layout and use it.
I first created one for Windows. Then I created a layout almost similar to that for Linux.
You just need to do some Google search.
Even on Mac I'm using similar layout.
--
Dr BVK Sastry
Namaste
On the observations, I have a lingering issue and desire to share it on the forum. Do we have a home team really desiring and willing to do what it takes to develop a ‘Samskruth Language Appropriate Technology’ ?
My observations ( -personal opinion with the simple question: What is the action plan to achieve the goal covered by the statement : Sanskrit is best suited language for computers’.)
:
1. < I prefer the Ubuntu's native keyboard support such as ibus with Harvard-Kyoto/ itrans. > Here the Non-English USER ( and in the context, the Devanagari Sanskrit script character in-putter to the document), is re-adjusting the ‘Language Related Mindset’ to the ‘Techno-Linguist Provided layout and conveniences’.
2. On < Moreover, being used to qwerty keyboard, my fingers don't have to learn the new keyboard layout. >
First one is Sellers offer to make ‘Devanagari run on given Anglicized Keyboard layout’.
Second one is Native Language users reluctance to change from the addictive convenience of typing ‘Devanagari through English’.
The Font setting, Browser issues are related further down the line which are band-aid patches, and the like are the price being paid for not addressing the primary issue hidden in the 80’s statement: Sanskrit is best suited language for computers’.
Till the ‘ native language community users mindset related to ‘Devanagari Language working on the ‘ lent comforts by roman script based technology’, the Samskruth Language Appropriate Technology will not find an opportunity to evolve and develop, beyond these ‘ patch-solutions’.
Look forward for those members who have a passion for Samskruth- Technology.
Regards
BVK Sastry
--
Praveen R. Bhat
--Praveen R. Bhat
/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
विश्वासो वासुकेयः
| iBus-m17n |
| ibus-qt4 |
| m17n-db |
| m17n-contrib |
| ttf-indic-fonts |
शनिवार, 11 फ़रवरी 2017 को 11:00:33 अपर UTC-8 को, dhaval ने लिखा:
Dr BVK Sastry
Namaste Praveen
1. I appreciate your reasoning justified < in a context> to display <Roman and Devanagari in the same document, given the limitation and frame work of Technologies of Character : Keying in, Display, Transmission and Word- Processing needs.>. This issue is one way connected to the discussions on another thread related to ‘Aryaa –Geetikaa : singing of Arya composition, and the History –evidence for the name of Aryabhatta /Aryabhata.
I hope you will read through this post till the end, contemplate on the references provided and their implication for finding ‘Rightful place of Samskrutham in Digital Technology with a Language Appropriateness, without surrendering the Sovereign nature of Vedanga Language (rules used by Panini) to the Self-declared IPA Standards based on English like Language standards for scripting and voice.
If I may restate your signature line reading < Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known >, I would say < Through what should one know as SAMSKRUTHAM LANGUAGE STANDARDS, That owing to which all this SAID TO BE STATED AND CONTAINED IN SAMSKRTHAM is known >.
Living like a ‘Roman in Rome’ is NOT the same as ‘ Living by Native Identity in < Home Language Context’ >. ‘ Font rendering, browser tweaking , App’s running on a given system are no different than what Sri La Prabhupada has already pointed to. This approach needs a further fundamental augmentation and review.
2. I do not know how much Swadeshi Indology and Battle:Sanskrit teams understand or care for these ‘ root cutting digestions in operation over the last four decades or more ! from the ‘ mostly misunderstood and less cognized threats from Techno-Linguistics and living in the sphere of Anglo- Amor and Anglo-phobia. I do understand they have their ‘directive and priorities’.
3. Living by hype of ‘ historic heritage pride’ is not the same as administering the right medicine for health. So is the solution to hype up animosity on ‘Whos wrong it is?
This is what I am highlighting :Do we have a TEAM who would address the claim: Samskruth is best suited language for Computers, from abinitio phase ? Support it appropriately beyond asking for ‘Free Voluntarism’! I am yet to come across even a finger count number of persons on this issue, in case this is as real and critical as I perceive. If anyone interested, please contact me off the forum.
2. The < lingering issue> that I am pointing to, is on HOW TO OVERCOME the < mindset and the directives to which these challenges are anchored >, and are making it difficult to propose a plausible system and method to :
2a) < (i)retrain the mind-map for Keyboard Character layout by Language appropriate characters >: The HMI Solution approach
and
2b) < (ii) overcome the slightest discomfort experience for a change and preference for continued use of inappropriate solutions, even when it means the ‘ life and death of a language’! >. : Retraining of user-fingers for Native Language Usage.
3. I share below some points, to show how deep this disability feature of ‘ Devanagari script display rendering on systems, is walking on the borrowed feet and presentation through the veil of ‘Roman Alphabet Character set’ ; How long this model has been present and been promoted.
This is an important issue and a paradigm shift needed in Samskruth Studies, the modeling of Language Learning –Teaching-Surviving issue.
Today we have on a scale of one to a million, people who love to talk about Sanskrit and what is said in it, who can talk about everything in Sanskrit and ‘ who do not speak Samskrutham’, turning a blind eye to the ‘ Language Standard Retention’ on native standards and terms. Because , one of the American University standards suggested and set a guideline that a Sanskrit learner need not speak a single word of Samskruth ! It is a ‘Classical Language’.
4. After perusing the points below, may I request you to ‘ meditate on the methods that have been in use to spread the ‘ thoughts in Samskrutham’ (= the primary fruit) for the benefit of larger users as Juice (= technology solutions for Brahmi-Devanagari Samskruth language character display under the constrictions of ‘ Roman Alphabet Character set, sequence and systems’. And why is it a < lingering issue> for a language- traditionalist.
5. Here below are the points to explore:
5a) In the past, the scripting convention of several languages of India were derived from a discipline called ‘Lipi-Shaastra’, which now seems to be an extant name and tradition. The design of Tibetan script, the Japanese script are said to have been from the frame work of Devanagari Sanskrit. A similar view is presented about the Greek and Latin; but it is a slippery zone and I am not pushing this debate any further here; it is not relevant.
5b) How Tibetan script got its design from Devanagari : (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari#cite_note-21 ; see foot note reference ) The 7th-century Tibetan king Srong-tsan-gambo ordered that all foreign books be transcribed into the Tibetan language. He sent his ambassador Tonmi Sambota to India to acquire alphabet and writing methods; returning with Sanskrit Nagari script from Kashmir corresponding to 24 Tibetan sounds and innovating new symbols for 6 local sounds.[21] Other closely related scripts such as Siddham Matrka was in use in Indonesia, Vietnam, Japan and other parts of East Asia by between 7th- to 10th-century.[22][23] Sharada remained in parallel use in Kashmir. An early version of Devanagari is visible in the Kutila inscription of Bareilly dated to Vikram Samvat 1049 (i.e. 992 CE), which demonstrates the emergence of the horizontal bar to group letters belonging to a word.[2] One of the oldest surviving Sanskrit text from early post-Maurya period available consists of 1,413 Nagari pages of a commentary by Patanjali, with a composition date of about 150 BCE, the surviving copy transcribed about 14th century CE.[24]
5c) Limitations of IPA: ( https://linguischtick.wordpress.com/2015/03/06/the-ipa-the-vowel-chart/) The IPA is supposed to be a one-to-one system: one sound = one symbol. Writing /ae/ risks confusing the reader into thinking that there are two vowel sounds, not one. You can draw it as one character by starting with the top-left of the hook in the ‘a’, looping around into the ‘e’, then looping around back without taking your pencil off the paper.... Diacritics are used in cases where it would be confusing or unnecessary if completely new symbols were introduced. There’s no need for special nasal vowel symbols, since it would obscure an articulatory relationship between vowels. We can tell from looking at /i/ and /ĩ/ that they are similar vowels, and that’s very useful. There are dozens of diacritics in the IPA, used for both consonants and vowels.
5d) Recommendations in the letter dated 31 Dec 1971, by Sri La Prabhupada for preferred use of diacritics for ‘ outreach’ of Gita text and message : (http://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/bombay/december/31/1971/jadurani?d=1 and http://rtvik.com/ ) :
1. What was Śrīla Prabhupāda’s definition of the word, “henceforward?”:
The following is Śrīla Prabhupāda’s final, written, signed order on Sanskrit diacritics. As usual, it’s crystal-clear and doesn’t leave any room for speculation and/or interpretation by the “intellectual class.”
Prabhupāda: In reply to Jayādvaita’s questions, henceforward the policy for using diacritic markings is that I want them used everywhere, on large books, small books and also BTG. If there is any difficulty with the pronunciation, then after the correct diacritic spelling, in brackets the words “pronounced as _,” may be written. So even on covers the diacritic markings should be used. We should not have to reduce our standard on account of the ignorant masses. Diacritic spelling is accepted internationally, and no learned person will even care to read our books unless this system is maintained. (Letter to Jadurāṇī, 31 December, 1971)
Here, it’s obvious that Śrīla Prabhupāda’s definition of the word “henceforward” is the same as the dictionary definition: henceforward - from this time forth; from now on.
Obviously, the GBC and the BBT Trustees understood this directive to mean the dictionary definition, because they didn’t suddenly stop using Sanskrit diacritics in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books and in BTG magazine after Śrīla Prabhupāda’s physical departure!
I hope this helps to understand why I called this as < lingering issue> , a residual smell in the vessel long after the contents have been emptied out.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Praveen R. Bhat
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:40 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Devanagari not
displaying correctly on ubuntu 14.04 LTS
Namaste Sastry ji,
Praveen R. Bhat
1. I appreciate your reasoning justified < in a context> to display <Roman and Devanagari in the same document, given the limitation and frame work of Technologies of Character : Keying in, Display, Transmission and Word- Processing needs.>.
I hope you will read through this post till the end, contemplate on the references provided and their implication for finding ‘Rightful place of Samskrutham in Digital Technology with a Language Appropriateness, without surrendering the Sovereign nature of Vedanga Language (rules used by Panini) to the Self-declared IPA Standards based on English like Language standards for scripting and voice.
Durga Prasada Rao Chilakamarthi
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bvpar...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Durga Prasada Rao Chilakamarthi
Dipesh Katira
मम क्लेशः अपगतः! धन्यो़ऽस्मि!