गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः

[Mahesh Kakathkar]

सर्वेषु विद्वद्वरॆण्यॆषु विज्ञप्तिः-

’गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः’ 

अस्य विवरणं कृपया कुर्वन्तु।

इति 

विद्वज्जनविधेयः

Mahesh kakathkar

[V Subrahmanian]

2013/3/28 Mahesh Kakathkar <mahesh.k...@gmail.com>

सर्वेषु विद्वद्वरॆण्यॆषु विज्ञप्तिः-

’गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः’ 

अस्य विवरणं कृपया कुर्वन्तु।

There is a belief that when the elephant eats the बेल fruit (called 'viLAm pazham in Tamil, used to make many delicacies, like sherbet, even payasam), the hard shell of the fruit comes out unbroken but without the contents, along with the elephant's excreta.  The fruit part of it is mysteriously consumed by the elephant.  I think this is the meaning of the nyAya.  Its applications in daily human life can be imagined variously.

Scholars may kindly give their opinions.

regards
subrahmanian.v    

इति 

विद्वज्जनविधेयः

Mahesh kakathkar

--
निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)
to subscribe go to the link below and put a request
https://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat/subscribe
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Subbu-ji,

This is not the  "बेल fruit (called 'viLAm pazham in Tamil,"

Scientific Name -  Feronia elephumtum also known as  Limonia acidissima L.

Seeds from this tree do not sprout unless they they pass through an Elephant's stomach.

Often this is used for tracking elephant's movement in the jungle.  Thus the association with GaNesha as (kapitya priyaaya)

Other names are :

Bengali	কয়েতবেল Kayetabela, কপিত্থ Kapittha
English	Elephant apple, Wood apple, Indian Wood Apple, Curd fruit, Monkey fruit
Gujarati	કોઠી Kothi, કોઠા Kotha
Hindi	कठबेल Katabel, दधिफल Dadhiphal, कावित Kavit, दन्तसठ Dantasath, मन्मथ Manamath, पुष्पफल Pushpaphal, कपित्थ Kapitth, कैथ Or कैथा Kaith
Kannada	ದಧಿಫಲ Dadhiphala, ಮನಮಥ ಮರ Manmatha Mara, ಕಪಿಠಾ Kapithha, ಬೇಲದ ಮರ Baelada Mara, ಬೇಲದ ಹಣ್ಣಿನ ಮರ Baelada Hannina Mara, ದಮ್ತಸಟ Damtasata, ನಾಯಿಬೆಲ Nayibel
Malayalam	നായ് വേലം Naay Veelam, Vilavu, Vilarmaram, വിളങ്കായ് Vilankaay, Vilankai
Marathi	कवंठी Kavanti, कवंठ Kavant, कवठ Kavat, कपित्थ Kapith
Oriya	Koyito
Others	Monkey Fruit, Curd Fruit, Nal Vela, कइत्थं Kaittham, Wood Apple, कइत्थो Kaittho, Elephant Apple
Sanskrit	दन्तशठ Danthashatha, दधिफल Dadhiphala, पुष्पफल Pushpaphala, कपित्थं Kapithama, कपित्यं Kapityama, कपित्य Kapitya, दधित्थ Dadhittha
Tamil	விளா மரம் Vilamaram, விளாம்பழம் Vilampazam, கவித்தம் Kavittam, கபித்தம் Kapittam, விளா Vila, Vila, தந்தசடம் Tantacatam
Telugu	వెలగ Velaga, వెలగపండు Velagapandu, కపిత్థము Kapitthhamu

---

From: V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com>
To: mahesh.k...@gmail.com
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः

[V Subrahmanian]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: vaithi subramanian <vyakaran...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः
To: v.subra...@gmail.com

सारभूतं गृहीत्वा  निस्सारं त्याज्यमित्यर्थ:

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Ganesh,

IMO - The real significance of Kapithya fruit is that it reduces "pitta".  The Tannin contents also increase Bile acid secretion.  Thus the fat can get metabolized there by reducing the excessive stress on the liver function.  Studies have confirmed the lowering of Liver enzymes.

All patients who under go transplant often develop Jaundice and have elevated liver enzymes. Majority of them also develop Diabetes.  GaNesha is also associated with "Jambuphala" (jaamuna).  Seeds (not the sweet Fruit) also a well known treatment for managing Diabetes.

All this start making sense when one looks at GaNesha as a case of "Head Transplant".  I hope to publish some of theses in my next book "Significance of Herbs used/recommended by  our ancestors" in the near future.

Best rgds

Dr Yadu

---

From: Ganesh R <avadhan...@gmail.com>
To: ymoh...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:33 PM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः

Gaja also means a kind of small insect that enters in to the fruit kapittha by making way near the tip of it (This phenomenon is seen in fruits like mango too where such insects enter in to their bony seed, known as asthi in Sanskrit). Later the insect gaja, having abundant food in the form of flesh of the said fruit, gets multiplied too. Thus at last the whole fruit, while keeping its shell intact gets corroded completely. Many people mistaking the insect gaja for  elephant have loomed this myth of this mighty animal's mythical capability.:-)

[V Subrahmanian]

This seems to be a reasonable explanation.

subrahmanian.v

[subrahmanyam korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

कपित्थम् (कवित्थम्/ दधित्थः/ग्राही/मन्मथः/दधिफलः/पुष्पफलः/दन्तशठः)

कपित्थस्य फलम् कपित्थः (फले लुक् , पा 4-3-163 - विकारावयवप्रत्ययस्य मयटो लोपः)

अभुक्त्वामलकं पथ्यं भुक्त्वा तु बदरीफलम्।

कपित्थं सर्वदा पथ्यम् कदळी न कदाचन ॥ (आयुर्वेदः)

आमकपित्थम् अकण्ठ्यानाम् (चरकसूत्रम्) -  a raw kapittha spoils the स्वरपेटिका - will cause laryngitis .

आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् ।

निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्)

Here कपित्थ means कपित्थफलसार (लक्षणा)

This fruit is not good for teeth - दन्तशठः ( द्न्तानां शठः)

धन्यो’स्मि

Prof.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit,
CALTS,
University of Hyderabad 500046
Ph:09866110741(R),91-40-23010741,040-23133660(O)

[shankara]

Namaste!

This nyaya is explained in "Laukikanyayasahasri" edited by VK Dalai. Attaching relevant page from the book.

 

regards
shankara

---

From: subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>
To: v.subra...@gmail.com
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013 8:51 PM

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Prof  Korada

You are absolutely correct that this fruit is not good for the TEETH.

It contains Oxalic Acid and it should not be consumed who have a family history for  "Kidney Stones" that poses an increased risk for the formation of Calcium Oxalate.

Could you further elaborate on the following:

आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् ।

निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्)

Thanks

With Best Rgds

Dr Yadu

---

From: subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>
To: v.subra...@gmail.com
Cc: bvpar...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 8:21 AM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

कपित्थम् (कवित्थम्/ दधित्थः/ग्राही/मन्मथः/दधिफलः/पुष्पफलः/दन्तशठः)

कपित्थस्य फलम् कपित्थः (फले लुक् , पा 4-3-163 - विकारावयवप्रत्ययस्य मयटो लोपः)

अभुक्त्वामलकं पथ्यं भुक्त्वा तु बदरीफलम्।

कपित्थं सर्वदा पथ्यम् कदळी न कदाचन ॥ (आयुर्वेदः)

आमकपित्थम् अकण्ठ्यानाम् (चरकसूत्रम्) -  a raw kapittha spoils the स्वरपेटिका - will cause laryngitis .

आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् ।

निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्)

Here कपित्थ means कपित्थफलसार (लक्षणा)

This fruit is not good for teeth - दन्तशठः ( द्न्तानां शठः)

धन्यो’स्मि

[sadasivamurty rani]

The statement "this fruit is not good for the TEETH" is partly acceptable. 1. This statement has validity only when it is half ripen or unripen. If it is sufficiently ripen this fruit is good for health and doesn't cause any harm to the teeth. 2. Even for those who have a family history of "Stones in Kidneys" is also it doesn't have any adverse effect provided it is eaten in its season and in a well ripen state. The same is the case with Tomatos and Lemons also. The unripen lemon causes caugh and well ripen lemon is a good medicine for caugh. As a qualified Ayurvedic Doctor and as a person hailed from a family known for Ayurvedic Practitioners and Pharmacists  for the last 6 generations I attest the fact that Kapittha doesn't harm to our teeth provided it is well ripen and eaten in its season.   Regarding the Elaboration for the sloka

आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् । निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्)

the attachment of the posting of scholar Shri Sankara on this topic has a very interesting and supplementing information. Warm regards, Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty --- On Sat, 30/3/13, Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

--

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:42 AM, sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Regarding the Elaboration for the sloka आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् । निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्) the attachment of the posting of scholar Shri Sankara on this topic has a very interesting and supplementing information.

The verse means:  When Lakshmi, wealth/prosperity comes/arrives, we know not how, just like the sweet water inside the ripe coconut formed (without anybody putting it inside).  (From the explanation given in Shri Shankara's cited page, the following is known:) Also, when Lakshmi, wealth/prosperity disappears, we know not how it goes. It is just like the fleshy content of the kapittha fruit disappears when the empty shell alone comes out of the elephant (after it has consumed it).  The gist of the verse is: The arrival and departure of prosperity is inexplicable/unaccountable:  न तर्कगोचरतामेति (as per the cited page).

regards
subrahmanian.v

 

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Dear Respected Dr Rani and Scholars,

The only point I was trying to make was to become and/or remain aware of "Side Effects" of kapitya.

Properties of Chemicals (गुणधर्म) does not change.  Thus the property of Oxalic Acid is not going to change whether the fruit is ripe or not.  Actual amount may vary but not that significantly.  Most Ayurvedic practitioner's hang their hat on the conventional "Peg" of tradition rather than accepting the the facts of chemical entities present in the ingredients.

It is our silly perception that we think that all that is natural is safe. As an extreme example, should we recommend the in-discriminate use of Arsenic trioxide! absolutely not.

IMO -  It is up to the individual whether some one ignores them due to ignorance or purposely by design.  Not knowing or not sharing the information should not be a matter of pride but needs to remain classified under the column of ignorance.  This is like, intentionally asking for for trouble ( ā baila muzhe māra) or trying to speed through the traffic light when it is orange, with only assurance that "We have been doing so for so many generations".

Big Pharma companies have settled big milti-million dollar law suits in US for not having shared the information pertaining to the side-effects of their drugs. (Celebrex Vioxx) or even a McDoinaalds Hot Coffee (Hot Coffee) for that matter.

Our tradition strongly recommends to practice Yoga  हेयं दुःखमनागतम् ..२.१६.
Vyasa in the m~nagalam recommends the recitation of 12 names of GaNasha  that conclude with a statement  "विघ्नस्तस्य न जायते"

I have lot of respect for our traditions but we need to continue to evaluate them in the background of scientific facts.  Our ancestors established GaNesha as a dynamic deity - त्वं ज्ञानमयो विज्ञानमयोऽसि

I firmly believe that our ancestors us to practice the rituals for out benefit and to avoid pitfalls.  It is up to us to understand and practice them with sharpened thought process.

Some the concepts discussed above are from my Book -  "GaNesha 360 - The Science of Smart Living".

I thank all the scholars on this list for my continued education in our tradition and SanskritI

With best rgds,

Dr Yadu

---

From: sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com>
To: "kora...@gmail.com" <kora...@gmail.com>; "v.subra...@gmail.com" <v.subra...@gmail.com>; ymoh...@yahoo.com
Cc: "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:12 PM

[subrahmanyam korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

On one hand you say ’ कपित्थं सर्वदा पथ्यम्’  and on the other ' दन्तशठः’ - not good for teeth ?

'अति सर्वत्र वर्जयेत्’ - is applicable everywhere .

सर्वदा पथ्यम् - because it kills all defects of the three humors - viz वात , पित्त and कफ । Balance of the three is health .

But , if consumed in excess it ( for that matter any 'thing') would cause  disease .

By nature 'कपित्थफलम्’  causes शैत्यम् । So add something that will cause 'उष्णम्" - we add 'हरिद्रा’ / turmeric . वस्तुगुणदीपिका  prescribes 'मधु’ / honey etc.

If taken in excess it may cause 'अश्मरी’ (stones in gall bladder) or may damage 'कालेय’ / Lever , due to its acids . Same is the case with teeth also.

हितं भुंज्यात्  मितं भुंज्यात् न भुंज्याद् अमितं हितम् - is the norm .

हितम् = good / suitable to your constitution .

पथ्ये सति गदार्तस्य  किमौषधनिषेवणम् ? पथ्ये ’ सति गदार्तस्य किमौषधनिषेवणम् ?

पथ्यम् = (आरोग्य-) पथः अनपेतम् -- ’ धर्मपथ्यर्थन्यायादनपेते’ -पा सू - यत्)

गदः = रोगः -- ’रोगव्याधिगदामयाः’ - कोशः।

No medicine is required if one takes or does not take the food that is suitable to his constitution .

’कदळी न कदाचन’ - means it is hard to digest . That does not mean one should not consume it . Throw a banana into flames ans see how much heat it takes to burn.

Dr Yadu --

Could you further elaborate on the following:

आजगाम यदा लक्ष्मीः नारिकेळफलांबुवत् ।

निर्जगाम यदा लक्ष्मी गजभुक्तकपित्थवत् ॥ (पञ्चतन्त्रम्)

-- the verse is pregnant with meaning  - वेदान्तसारः --

Samkaracarya prescribes a single prerequisite consisting of four qualifications (साधनचतुष्टयसंपत्तिः) to start ’ब्रह्मजिज्ञासा’ (1-1-1) --

नित्यानित्यवस्तुविवेकः ,  इहामुत्रार्थभोगविरागः , शमदमादिसाधनसंपत् , मुमुक्षुत्वं च ।

लक्ष्मीः (or लक्ष्मी -- लक्ष् = दर्शनाङ्कनयोः - चुरादि ’ लक्षेर्मुट् च’)) refers to any kind of wealth .

The wealth has come and gone - you did / could not notice .

In other words , wealth , in general , is not immutable , rather it is temporary . One thinks that he earned so much of wealth and enjoying the same .But the fact is that due to  ’कर्म’ , one gets wealth and loses too .

मा कुरु धनजनयौवनगर्वं हरति निमेषात् कालस्सर्वम् ; अर्थम् अनर्थम् भावय नित्यम् ।

So in order to develop तितिक्षा (= द्वन्द्वसहनम् - योगः) one should ponder over as which is नित्य and which is अनित्य ।

So kill the lust for wealth .

The  Telugu version of the same is available in सुमतिशतकम् , which used to be a prescribed book for children -

siri tA vaccina vaccunu

salalitamuga nArikeLasalilamubhaMgin|

siri tA poyina povunu

kari miMgina velagapaNDukaraNini sumatI!!

धन्योस्मि

--

[sadasivamurty rani]

Dear Dr. Yadu Mharir ji! I thought that even if it is said briefly it could be understood by scholarly scientists like you. I couldn't expect that I need to take lot of exercise even to convince people like you. Any how as I am busy with writing some urgent articles and a book I could not find much time at my disposal to explain you all the things. "Most Ayurvedic practitioner's hang their hat on the conventional "Peg" of tradition rather than accepting the the facts of chemical entities present in the ingredients." Just this statement is offending and a bit inconvenient to see from a senior member like you. I can write volumes on the difference between the chemical properties of a same thing at two different times. 1. If we take curd its properties are different. When it is churned with a churning instrument its properties are different and when it is just diluted by adding water and shaking in a tin without churning it with churning stick its properties are different. 2. The same curd if taken in its first hours its effects are different, if taken after 6 hours the effect is different and after 24 hours if taken the effects are different. (There are five types of curds spoken of in the Ayurvedic texts and also with their different effects). 3. Mine is not merely theoretical knowledge. I have more than 30 years practical experience also. I can cause cough for a person by giving some ingredients and with the same ingredients stored for many weeks I can cure the same cough with in hours. 4. While telling that Ayurveda is in our family through generations I didn't mean that those secrets are with us only. For your kindest information My grand father who lived for 105 years was the founder principal of the Vijayawada Government Ayurvedic College for 35 years. My father also was a faculty member there. That college produced and has been producing some thousands of Ayurvedic Practitioners through several decades since 1926. My Great grand father was an author of more than 100 books on Ayurveda and my Grand father wrote nearly 250 Treatises on Ayurveda. Some of them were translations of rare texts on Rasa Tantra Treatises. 5. I am proud of saying that our family rendered lot of service for the spread of Ayurveda in Andhra pradesh. We have our own pharmacy too which served our region on non profitable and non commercial lines for 7 decades where we played with different chemicals since our child hood. 6. According to Ayurveda Every Dravya has GUNA, VIRYA, VIPAKA and PRABHAVA. All these four Guna, Virya, Vipaka and Prabhava are not the same in all the states of a Dravya. They vary from time to time. The modern chemistry, I am sure, cannot give reason for every such effect. 7. Take equal amounts of honey and ghee. mix honey thoroughly pouring it in ghee. That solution gives one effect. Again Take take equal amounts of honey and ghee (in same units) and mix ghee thoroughly pouring it in honey. That solution gives another and opposite effect. Chemistry is surely dumb in giving the reason for this. But Ayurveda has wonderful explanation for this. 8. Take equal amounts of water and sulphuric acid. Pour the acid in water and see the effect. Pour the water in the acid and see the difference. It is stunning to see that your posting shows lot of respect for the traditions and not even an iota of it to the practitioners? What a wonder? I am sorry for not finding enough time to extend this letter more than this. With warm regards, Dr. Rani Sadasiva Murty

[subrahmanyam korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Dear Dr Yadu

'raw or ripe , properties do not change' - import of your posting .

A raw banana (flower too) arrests dehydration / dysentery whereas a ripe banana is a laxative .

In my first posting here I have quoted Carakasutram - आमकपित्थम् अकण्ठ्यानाम् ( raw wood-apple spoils the larynx ) and कपित्थं सर्वदा पथ्यम् ।

Raw pepper causes कफ / phlegm whereas dry pepper kills कफ . Decoction 

of black pepper and शुण्ठी ( dry ginger) is administered to a patient suffering from fever .

काल / Time , certainly brings change in properties .

In the case of अन्नम् ( अद्=भक्षणे , ’नपुंसके भावे क्तः’ ’रदाभ्यां निष्ठातो नः पूर्वस्य च  दः’) it causes quite opposite results - says तैत्तिरीयोपनिषद् --

अद्यते’त्ति च भूतानि । तस्मादन्नं तदुच्यत इति ।

The one that is consumed and also consumes the consumer is called अन्नम्।

Up to certain age a person grows due to अन्नम् । The same person consumes the same अन्नम्  but decays and dies .

Things have different properties during different stages and thousands of examples can be seen across Ayurveda .

The उपवेद was given by हिरण्यगर्भ and Yogis like चरक , सुश्रुत , वाग्भट etc. had expounded the same  for सुखदुःखे हिताहिते (सुश्रुत) ।

They see things with दिव्यदृष्टि ( clairvoyance) and if one finds fault with them we have to check his credentials .

How can one find fault with such a शास्त्रम् ?

Already discussed earlier --

बाला प्राणप्रदा प्रोक्ता युवती प्राणधारिणी ।

प्रौढा करोति वृद्धत्वं वृद्धा मरणमादिशेत् ॥ (आयुर्वेदः)

If the girl (bride) is too young she would cause prolonged longevity , a girl who attained youth would help maintain the longevity , if she is प्रौढा / older in age (वरहीनम्) properties of old age dawn early on the husband and if the wife is too elder , the husband would die an early death .

धन्यो’स्मि

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Shrivathsa B <shrivath...@gmail.com> wrote:

hariH OM,
Dr. Moharir,

   I apologize to you in particular and to the group in general for having overshot the scope of a reply to your mail, but your insensitivity towards a proven system had to be addressed.

"Properties of Chemicals (गुणधर्म) does not change.  Thus the property of Oxalic Acid is not going to change whether the fruit is ripe or not.  Actual amount may vary but not that significantly.  Most Ayurvedic practitioner's hang their hat on the conventional "Peg" of tradition rather than accepting the the facts of chemical entities present in the ingredients."

   The above stems from a bad mixing up of two epistemologies: that of chemistry / pharmaceutical science and that of shAstra. Your view goes against shAstra. In case you meant something else by guNa dharma, we wish to know the same. Water has the same chemical composition anywhere, but shAstra differentiates between cold water and hot water and their effects. When one says "shAstra", it means a long history of trial-error / empiricism / common sense etc. No person who is in his sane senses will ever drink cold water from a fridge when he has a cold and much less, justify it saying that the chemical composition is the same. Leave alone the difference between cold and hot water, water from different sources have different effects.

   If one were to go by the chemistry / allopathic / pharmaceutical ayatollahs (CAPAs), no one should ever in his dreams think of taking mercury based medicines. But the mercury based medicines (e.g. sUtashekhara rasa) cure people of conditions which have no "cure" as per the CAPAs. If you bring up the question of evidence (as all such pharmaceutical ayatollahs do), the evidence in favour of Ayurveda cannot simply be wished away. This had been the primary bedrock of health management in our country since ages, whereas allopathic medicine's evidence base is so tottering that they need to recall approved drugs every now and then because of their long term adverse effects. Allopathic medicine seems to be scouring the surface of "what constitutes evidence" only lately. This is after the great hurry to force upon us certain kinds of evidence (the prohibitively costly triple blind randomised control trials or RCTs where those who get placebos are cheated by those whom they trust to cure them!!!). The above has been revealed by Sir Michael Rawlins in his Harveian Oration of 2008. You may find the same here:
http://bookshop.rcplondon.ac.uk/contents/pub262-9bc950aa-00e6-4266-8e80-e4bc63a25262.pdf

   Of particular interest in the above oration: a randomized control trial (RCT) having cost a pharma company 189 million pounds. Just a back of envelope calculation will suggest that it is about:
13,797,000,000 = 13 billion or 1300 crore Rupees. If that be the cost of a trial, what will be the cost of the drug? If one were to go by your line of thought, Ayurvedic drugs which have been curing people since ages will cost 1000 times higher than what they do now.

   Secondly in the same oration: Certain governments demanded that there be a placebo controlled trial of Ganciclovir. This was an anti-retroviral drug which was known to be effective. Some HIV patients are prone to a condition where they may lose their eyesight if not treated with this drug. There were certain Pharmaceutical Ayatollahs who forced the governments to do an RCT.
The result was that those who got the placebo went blind. The intervention was proven effective at the cost of people going blind. Secondly, those people who were not in the trial group went blind too (because the governments had taken a decision to discontinue the drug until the results came)!!! One shudders at the thought as to what would happen if some CAPAs were to convince the government to discontinue / ban the use of Ayurveda until each and every formulation in the Ayurvedic granthas were proven.

   In sum, please don't expect Ayurveda to answer the questions which are loaded / have been wrongly formulated.

svasti,

            JAYA BHAVAANII BHAARATII,

                                                             shrivathsa.

2013/3/31 sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com>

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste Prof Korada

Thanks for for your response. All your posts are always educational for me.

All all I am saying is that remaining alert about the potential dangers shpould be every one's objective to avert dangers that have not yet manifested.हेयं दुःखमनागतम् ..२.१६.  and practicing  "विघ्नस्तस्य न जायते"

Here "raw or ripe , properties do not change" that I mentioned was only pertaining to  the properties of Oxalic Acid Contents (in raw or the ripe fruit) and nothing more.

If the contents are less then thare would be less damage to "TEETH" or leading to the formation of Kidney Stones.  If Physicians refuse to acknowledge this then do you think they are really helping the patient?  Would that not be a dis-service to the patients who may have the family history for Kidney Stones?

My observations and  remarks are not intended for any disrespect to the tradition but specifically directed towards who refuse to change under the banner of Tradition.

I will be publishing my commentary on "aShTanga hR^idaya" from a pharmacological perspective.  This will be the first book in this category because pharmacokinetics that was cleverly incorporated by VagbhaTTaa is totally missed by the current manufacturers of Ayurvedic Formulations.  I have included several examples of such formulations where manufacturers have deviated from the recommended tradition for manufacturing the specific formulation which. Release of book depends on the approval of may US Patent Application that incorporates the correct and profound formulation technique implemented by the the greatest formulator ( at least in my opinion). It is unfortunate that many big Aydurvedic companies have totally missed the boat.

I therefore do agree with shaastra but have disagreement with it's practice today.  from the originally recommended procedures in the text.  I therefore follow "puraana mityeva na saadhu sarnam ......"  and rely on my daily sandhyaa vandanam  "sulabhaa puruShaa rajanm satata priya vaadina  ......".

I personally know number of Ayurvedic practitioners who only recommend specific brands just out of personal vested interests in the medications.

It is the Sanskrit Scholars and scientists for other disciplines who need to get together and correct the errors in manufacturing.  Physicians have to take the responsibility for considering side effects and informing theses to their patients.

If all the Ayurvedic practitioner's think that there are no issue with respect to quality and or other wise then let it it be so, however, to make changes for the overall good for all patients they have to decide for them-self and live with their conscious.  I firmly believe that "one cannot change if one can not or will not acknowledge the problem".

So my issue is not specific but generic and systemic practice that does focus around quality heavy metal contents in many formulations that I have personally tested  in US.

My apologies for the long post and hope that list members do not take my post personally but in the spirit that knowledge is always evolving either we take it it and adopt to it or remain locked in the ivory towers of past glory.

A vision without execution is nothing more than a hallucination.

With best rgds

Dr Yadu

---

From: subrahmanyam korada <kora...@gmail.com>

To: Shrivathsa B <shrivath...@gmail.com>
Cc: sadasivamurty rani <ranisada...@yahoo.com>; "v.subra...@gmail.com" <v.subra...@gmail.com>; Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoh...@yahoo.com>; "bvpar...@googlegroups.com" <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 10:32 AM

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} गजकपित्थभक्षणन्यायः

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः