Clarification about cooking in the home on the day of death after the cremation

[Padmashree Anand]

Namaste

I humbly request the esteemed scholars in this group to kindly clarify the doubt. 

If cremation is over by  1 pm, can food be cooked on that day in the house? Is this applicable even today? Is this just a sampradaaya or shaastra evidence is available? What should one do if there is no one else to bring and give food?

Thanks and regards

Padmashree Anand

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Interesting question and very pertinent in these times.

My limited understanding is as follows: agni karya/lamps of any sort/ cooking fire etc. are avoided during the period of asoucha because it is believed that the astral body of the diseased is attracted to the flame and this prevents the onward progress of the soul encased in the astral sheath.

In olden days the cooking fire was lit from the tretaagni, but with gas and convection stoves being used nowadays, I am not sure how this translates in application.

As usual there is likely to be some aapad-dharma for times like these.

Venkat

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

One has the option of surviving on fruits ofcourse.

In these times try using an electric cooker and/or convection stove if you have one.

With fruits and these options one should be able to manage.

I am no scholar or expert in this but  based on previous experience in my household, depending on the diseased's relationship to oneself asoucha kala (1 day 3 days ....etc) is determined.

So firstly you will have to clarify the relationship of the diseased to determine how long and for whom the asoucha holds. The other issues can be decided downstream from there.

Sincere advise go by whatever your kula-pandit/purohita advises.

[Padmashree Anand]

धन्यवादाः महोदय 🙏

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

If cremation is over by  1 pm, can food be cooked on that day in the house? Is this applicable even today? Is this just a sampradaaya or shaastra evidence is available? What should one do if there is no one else to bring and give food?

                                                                            --- Vid Padmashtee Anand

If no one else is there -- after cremation by  अपराह्ण ,  the कर्ता  would return , light a lamp , cook the food and consume ( if anyone is there he/she would light the lamp and the कर्ता would look at the दीप and then only would have the food) . This  क्रिया , lighting the lamp (looking at it ) and having the food  to be performed everyday for twelve days (ब्राह्मणाः ) .

The same is the case -- whether it is own house / rented house ( if allowed ) / आब्दिकनिलयम्  (in cities ) .

 Applicable even today .

प्रमाणम् --

शिष्टाचार  is a प्रमाणम्  in this . Every small detail is not mentioned in शास्त्राणि  nor is it possible  for temporal and spacial considerations .

प्रमाणम्  --

तैत्तिरीयोपनिषत् - शीक्षावल्ली , 3,4 ----

( वेदमनूच्य आचार्यो’न्तेवासिनम् अनुशास्ति ...) अथ   यदि ते  कर्मविचिकित्सा वा वृत्तविचिकित्सा वा स्यात् । ये तत्र ब्राह्मणाः संमर्शिनः । युक्ता आयुक्ताः । अलूक्षा धर्मकामाः स्युः । यथा ते तत्र वर्तेरन् । तथा तत्र वर्तेथाः । .... एष आदेशः । एष उपदेशः । एषा वेदोपनिषत् ।

एतदनुशासनम् । एवमुपासितव्यम् । एवमु चैतदुपास्यम् ॥

विचिकित्सा = संशयः । वृत्त्तम् = प्रवर्तनम् (नपुंसके भावे क्तः ) । संमर्शिनः = विचारक्षमाः । युक्ताः = अभियुक्ताः (विद्वांसः) । आयुक्ताः = अपरप्रयुक्ताः । अलूक्षाः = अरूक्षाः - अक्रूरमतयः । आदेशः = विधिः । उपदेशः = पुत्रादिभ्यः पित्रादीनामपि । वेदोपनिषत् = वेदरहस्यम् । अनुशासनम् = ईश्वरवचनम् । (एवम् ) उ = एव (निरुक्तम् ) -- शांकरभाष्यम् ।

मनुस्मृतिः , 2-6 ---

वेदो’खिलो धर्ममूलं स्मृतिशीले च तद्विदाम् ।

आचारश्चैव साधूनाम् आत्मनस्तुष्टिरेव च ॥

Do not approach too many people - if you are satisfied with a क्रिया that itself is धर्म ( सतां  हि सन्देहपदेषु वस्तुषु  प्रमाणमन्तःकरणप्रवृत्तयः -- दुष्यन्तः शाकुन्तले ) ।

धन्यो;स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit (Retd)

299 Doyen , Serilingampally, Hyderabad 500 019
Ph:09866110741

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

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[Krishna Kashyap]

namaste Sri Subrahmanyam Ji,

what is the meaning of this: आयुक्ताः = अपरप्रयुक्ताः

I did not understand.

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

what is the meaning of this: आयुक्ताः = अपरप्रयुक्ताः

I did not understand.                --- Vid Krishna Kashyap

' कर्मणि वृत्ते वा अपरप्रयुक्ताः आयुक्ताः ’ -- शांकरभाष्यम् ।

Someone is guided by a शिष्ट - such a person can be taken as प्रमाणम् -- because  there is  अविच्छिन्नसंप्रदायपरंपरा । अपरः = another person ..

श्रीविद्यारण्य comments --- 

नित्यनैमित्तिकानुष्ठाने स्वयं प्रवृत्ताः युक्ताः । तत्रापि आसमन्तात् युक्ताः आयुक्ताः अवैकल्येन सम्यगनुष्ठास्यामः इत्येवमभियुक्ताः इत्यर्थः ।

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[Krishna Kashyap]

thanks Sri Subrahmanyam Ji

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Ananthanarayanan Vaidyanathan]

Sir it must be noted that shishtacharams vary from sect to sect, region to region and in some cases from family to family. 

So it can be pramanam only in that context. 

Perhaps it is the practice in your sect region or community. 

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[venkat veeraraghavan]

Dear Shri Korada Garu,

  If no one else is there -- after cremation by  अपराह्ण ,  the कर्ता  would return , light a lamp , cook the food and consume ( if anyone is there he/she would light the lamp and the कर्ता would look at the दीप and then only would have the food) . This  क्रिया , lighting the lamp (looking at it ) and having the food  to be performed everyday for twelve days (ब्राह्मणाः ) .  

>>Am I right in assuming that this is the aapad-dharma you suggest for this context and not a general rule?

Many thanks for your explicit instructions.

Regards,

Venkat

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 11:46 AM Subrahmanyam Korada <kora...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Perhaps it is the practice in your sect region or community. 

                                                                                       ---- Vid Ananthanarayanan

Please note -- precisely  the question is about having food (it may be prepared at home or elsewhere ) by a person who is असहाय ।

It is a universal norm -- any sentence would  denote either विधि or प्रतिषेध  (अर्थवादाः included as per मीमांसा ) ।

In the present context I supported भोजनविधि and you say it may vary from sect to sect etc as शिष्टाचार ।

 It insinuates that in some sects/regions / families the कर्ता ,  who returned from cremation in अपराह्ण should not have food , i e  प्रतिषेध ।

Can you give me any single शास्त्रप्रमाणम् / लोकाचार / शिष्टाचार  to this effect ?

पूर्वमीमांसा ( 1-4-30 ) --

शबरस्वामी  says -- आख्यातशब्दानाम् अर्थं ब्रुवतां शक्तिः सहकारिणी ।

ज्योतिष्टोमेन स्वर्गकामो यजेत  -  this sentence  means anybody who is desirous of स्वर्ग may perform ज्योतिष्टोमयाग । भाष्यकार  explains -- take शक्ति  into consideration - the one should have मानसिकशक्ति , शारीरकशक्ति and 

आर्थिकशक्ति ।

The above न्याय is applicable to all कर्म-s .

गौतमधर्मसूत्रम् ( 1प्रश्नः  8 अध्यायः  23, 24 सूत्रे ) आत्मगुणाः --

अथाष्टावात्मगुणाः

 

दया सर्वभूतेषु क्षान्तिः अनसूया शौचम् अनायासः मङ्गलम् अकार्पंण्यम् अस्पृहा इति ।

Here अनायास is explained (quoted) by हरदत्तमिश्र in मिताक्षरा --

यदारंभे भवेत् पीडा नित्यमत्यन्तमात्मनः ।

तद्वर्जयेत् धर्म्यमपि सो’नायासः प्रकीर्तितः ॥

धर्म्यम् = धर्मादनपेतम् ’ धर्मपथ्यर्थन्यायादनपेते ’ पा सू 4-4-92 

Even if  the  कर्म  is  धर्म्य  , if it causes pain , one should not go for it - this is अनायास ।

कुमारसंभवम् (5-33 ) --

अपि क्रियार्थं सुलभं समित्कुशं जलान्यपि स्नानविधिक्षमाणि ते ?

अपि स्वशक्त्या तपसि प्रवर्तसे शरीरमाद्यं खलु धर्मसाधनम् !

’ सततम् आत्मानमेव गोपायीत ’ -- श्रुतिः (गुपू = रक्षणे )

’ सुखदुःखे हिताहिते ’ -- सुश्रुतसंहिता --1

कालभोजनम् -- चरकसूत्रम् ।

याममध्ये न भोक्तव्यं द्वियामं न तु लङ्घयेत् -- चरकम् ।

A person should have  शक्ति to perfom any  कर्म even for a day -- here it is नैमित्तिककर्म -- prascribed even for a संन्यासी ( save परमहंस )

The importance of दीप is detailed in उपनिषदः ।

I touched these two aspects only .

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

>>Am I right in assuming that this is the aapad-dharma you suggest for this context and not a general rule?

                                                           ----- Vid Venkat

You are absolutely right - the context  itself is आपद्धर्म ---

 ' What should one do if there is no one else to bring and give food?

[P V S Kumar]

For pramanam /  shaastra evidence, you may refer to धर्मसिन्धुः (available in Archive.org). There various conditions -  based on the relationship with the deceased, age of the deceased, varna of the family, etc. have been dealt with in detail. 

In towns and villages, relatives or people in the neighborhood provide food during the अशौच days. But in cities it may not be happening. Vid Korada ji has already provided the workarounds that are being followed where other options are not available. We can consider them as local sampradayas in the current days.

Regards

P V S Kumar

[Ananthanarayanan Vaidyanathan]

You are asking for pramanams etc for shistacharam. The question was regarding cooking food at the deceased premise  and not about taking food. 

I know there is a practice in my own sect that cooking is not done in the house in the day when the body lies or is taken for cremation and either relatives who are not covered by ashaucham or not close mourners supply cooked food. 

There is no rule that the relative should fast or starve even in the presence of the dead body. 

And I know it is just meaningless tointeract with vidvans especially who are too sure about themselves and think what they state amount to pramanam. 

You stated yourself that one cannot ask for texts for local practices and now you ask for pramanam on this. 

This seems to be group where you can assert anything and others have to accept it as pramanam. This world is too big, far bigger than this Google group. 

I rest my argument here. 

I regret that I tried to clarify. 

 तत्र एव वकव्यं यत्रोक्तं सफलं  भवेत्

Anyway I am not a scholar and I just stated from my lifelong experience and observation. 

My arena is law and taxation.  Not religious practices

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Ananthanarayanan Vaidyanathan,

On an earlier occasion also you sent a message accusing the entire group. 

I rejected the message for that reason. 

Again , you are doing the same in this message. 

I allowed to show your attitude to the group while holding mirror to you. 

You are not forced to continue in the group against which you make such accusations. You are free to unsubscribe. 

If your attitude continues to be the same and are not able to unsubscribe, I will help you by removing you from the group. 

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--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[venkat veeraraghavan]

Anyway I am not a scholar and I just stated from my lifelong experience and observation. 

My arena is law and taxation.  Not religious practices

>>>Dear Shri Ananthanarayanan 

Thank you for your clarification which should have been the first and only sentence in your reply.

The gentleman you are arguing with is a subject matter expert in these areas apart from having done full adhyayana.

He has clearly written that what he has said is APADH-DHARMA.

Which part of this is hard to understand?

What you or I have been doing ALL THESE  YEARS is irrelevant given the current context of corona lockdowns and social segregation.

Please understand that what is happening now has not happened in either of our lifetimes and needs to be treated as such - AN EXCEPTION.

Regards,

V

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[Dr. Hrushikesh Dalai]

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[Padmashree Anand]

धन्यवादाः सर्वेभ्यः विद्वद्भ्यः

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