only Sanskrit remains... (SOAS)

[Mārcis Gasūns]

And some Pali.

The end of Assyriology at SOAS University of London

In June 2020 SOAS closed at short notice many low-recruiting
undergraduate and postgraduate programmes. The closures were a
preliminary to a brutal downsizing of the university’s staff, which
came later in the summer. The measures followed several successive
years of financial deficit and the prediction of a large shortfall in
student-fee income consequent upon the impact of Covid-19 on student
recruitment. Deep and immediate cuts in expenditure were required
across the whole range of the School’s activities to safeguard its
future.

The cuts hit language study hard. Most Asian and African languages
survive only in much reduced form, as minor options of one or, at
most, two years’ duration. The outcome for Ancient Near Eastern
Studies could not have been worse. Both undergraduate and postgraduate
programmes were closed to new students. After the current students
graduate in 2022, teaching in Sumerian and Hittite will cease
altogether. Akkadian, if it survives at all, will become a minor
option of one year’s duration only. Other dead Asian languages have
also closed, notably Syriac, Avestan and Pahlavi; only Sanskrit
remains.

The closing of the Ancient Near Eastern Studies programmes made their
teachers effectively redundant. As a consequence Andrew George,
Professor of Babylonian, was obliged to volunteer for severance and
left SOAS in August. Mark Weeden, Senior Lecturer in Ancient Near
Eastern Studies, remains in post but will soon be unable to teach the
subjects for which he was appointed. Jana Matuszak, midway through a
fixed-term lectureship funded by the Leverhulme Trust, will not
continue in post beyond the end of that term. Two postdoctoral
fellows, Sam Mirelman and Nadia Ait Said-Ghanem, both funded by the
British Academy, remain to see out their fixed terms. When the last of
these four colleagues departs, a research cluster which has had an
unusually prominent international impact over many decades will exist
no more. Assyriology at SOAS will then follow the teaching of Ancient
Near Eastern Studies into extinction.

The demise of Assyriology at SOAS comes seventy-two years after its
initiation, which was marked by the appointment of Sidney Smith to a
professorship in Semitic languages in 1948. Smith was followed by C.
J. Gadd, H. W. F. Saggs, D. J. Wiseman and David Hawkins, all of them
Fellows of the British Academy. Others who helped with the teaching of
Ancient Near Eastern Studies at SOAS during the last half century were
Alan Millard, Nicholas Postgate, Martin J. Selman, Johanna Firbank,
Daniel Schwemer, Cornelia Wunsch, Fran Reynolds, Frans van Koppen,
Marie-Christine Ludwig, Martin Worthington, Luis Siddall and
Christopher Metcalf. Other Assyriologists whose research has been
hosted at SOAS in the last two decades include Stefan Maul, Farouk
Al-Rawi, Yasuyuki Mitsuma, Jeanette Fincke, Annunziata Rositani, Amir
Gilan and Abather Saadoon.

The destruction of Ancient Near Eastern Studies at SOAS has more than
local ramifications. It reduces national teaching provision by one
third. It places British research capacity in Assyriology at similar
risk. It is one more indication that unendowed posts in small subjects
are now extremely vulnerable in British universities, especially when
they are exposed to the full force of market economics.

Andrew George
Nadia Ait Said-Ghanem
Jana Matuszak
Sam Mirelman
Mark Weeden

[Madhav Deshpande]

Very sad to read this.  However, this is the story of many universities in the western countries facing financial hardship.  There are frequent suggestions from many quarters to shut down all humanities, and focus only on "essential" fields like math, science etc.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Kushagra Aniket]

"Other dead Asian languages have also closed, notably Syriac, Avestan and Pahlavi; only Sanskrit remains."

I do not know about the other three languages but I hope that Sanskrit has not been labeled as a "dead language" by the authors of this pamphlet. If it has been, then one cannot sympathize with the authors.

Kushagra Aniket

Cornell University'15

ka...@cornell.edu

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Dr. Aniket, +1 👍. 

Megh

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[Venkatakrishna Sastry]

Namaste

 

 

Thinking aloud:

 

In the course of History:

 

Langauges in social usage change to adapt to the  practical needs of users.  Like the dress, food, weapons, money , jewellery  ……  They have a social purpose.

 

Samskrutham  seems to  stands out of  such  league of langauges( mainly social  and  historical) and yet serve the social and spiritual  purpose  in a unified mode. 

 

What   could be the reason for this ' amaratva' ( changeless ness/ minimal change) of this one langauge ' brahmi- bhaarati'    from this land of Yoga ?  Is it a merit or defect ? Kepeing this 'feature', what has Samskrutham achieved - delviered ? can deliver to the 21st century audience ? beyond conversation ?

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[Kushagra Aniket]

Thank you, Sri Megh Ji. However, I am not a PhD. I am just a Sanskrit enthusiast.

Regarding Dr. Sastry's question,

I am not knowledgeable enough to answer it in entirety but wanted to make just two remarks:

1. "अमृतत्वस्य तु नाशास्ति वित्तेन": It seems that the language that is relatively insulated from the material conditions of mundane life has a better chance at immortality. A language that rises with an improvement in the socio-economic status of its speakers will also fall when said status deteriorates. The name गीर्वाण-वाणी implies that Sanskrit is the language of the devas, who are indeed amara-s. If for nothing else, we need it to communicate with the devas. Without communion with the divine, how can there be immortality? I believe that the knowledge of Sanskrit is possible only through the meritorious karmas of past lives and the grace of the devas, who speak it. Therefore, the enormous Adṛṣṭa of using Sanskrit will likely be realized across many lives.

2. Base for Innovation: When I encounter English speakers, it appears that their speaking and writing are based almost entirely on habit and custom. Everything, from words to phrases, seems pre-determined. For any innovation, English speakers must seek refuge in their classical roots: Latin or Greek. Similarly, we need the stable anchoring of Sanskrit to ensure that other Indian languages keep growing. As we have previously discussed in this forum, many Indo-European languages can be viewed as Prakrita-s with respect to Sanskrit. Without the amṛta of Sanskrit, other Indian languages are sure to die a slow death.

There are many other benefits that scholars would want to highlight. But I wanted to mention the above two points based on my observation.

Kushagra Aniket

Cornell University'15

ka...@cornell.edu

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[Aravinda Rao]

What   could be the reason for this ' amaratva' ( changeless ness/ minimal change) of this one langauge ' brahmi- bhaarati'    from this land of Yoga ? 

I think that an important reason is that it is the medium of all rituals. Anywhere in the world if you go to a Hindu temple, 

the priest would chant purusha suktam, or rudram or some such set of mantras. Hindu families anywhere in the world would

read Lakshmi stotram, Ganesha stotram, or Saraswati stotram. People who tell pravachanams, read out passages from the

Sanskrit texts and explain them. 

In short, Sanskrit is linked to our punyam, heaven or moksham. We chant the sahasra namas whether we know the meaning

or not. I do not know whether Latin is similarly linked to punyam in the same way.   

Aravinda Rao

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[Venkatakrishna Sastry]

Namaste

 

Thanks to Prof. Aravinda Rao  and Aniket for brooding over the question : ' amaratva of  deva-bhashaa' aka  Samskrutham/ Sanskrit .  Here are my extended thoughts, submitted for further deliberation and reitrating the need for a better reasoning to defend ' amaratva of Samskrutham'.

 

1.  Sanskrit studies at University and Gurukul :   The perspectives provided for 'Samskruth -  Langauge Study :   Conceptualization by  Purpose and  support for  implementation differs  at Guru-Kul and

      University.  

     The downfall of Langauge:Samskruth  is greatly linked to the  5-D's ( decline, destruction, dilution, distortion and deceptions) affecting  Guru-Kul, Guru's and Communities and social economics.

      Net out come:  Samskruti related to Samskruth is distorted. The hue and cry for loss of tradition and langauge of tradition raises. Where are we seeing the strategy for revivial action ?

 

      The motive to ' keep alive a langauge -teaching department in a University ( and support an  employed Instructor), lead by a state (  or a charity institution/  corporate)   ' is aligned to the  goal of

       outputting  a 'socially useful person, who can be sustained in   a society,   economically [ employment -skill -profession oriented language education] .  The social need met is skilled professional service.  

       The design of system builds to  graduate a skill-mechanic and  function as a  system maintainer. Grooming a Visionary is not a part of design or goal of such a  school and  system.

        The technical  traditional name for this category is ' उपाध्याय - शिक्षक ( -The equivalent of  Mason Skills trainers ;    वृत्ति-कुशल-कर्माचार्य  ' .  

 

      The motive to ' keep alive a langauge -teaching institution lead by  Master ' through a Guru-Kul institution ( and support an  Guru-Community  आचार्य-कुल), lead by a state (  or a charity institution/  

       corporate)    is aligned to the  goal of  guarding the knowledge-wealth (रक्षा - असन्देह  :: Protection,Preservation, Propagation, Application Customization and practical Improvisation without any shread of doubt) 

        The goal is to output  a ' visionary executive' (पुरोहित :   - वयं राष्ट्रे  जागृयाम  पुरोहिताः -  ) who guide the use of that  knowledge for total social wellness- wealth -welfare '  a ' socially -spiritually elite leader, an

       icon of  tradition, who  sustains the society.   The technical name for this category is '   (पुरोहित- गुरु   आचार्य  ऋषि  ). The model is  ब्रह्मर्षि  -  राजर्षि- :: ब्रह्म-क्षत्रं पान्तु .  

 

       The Guru-Kul  school alone can decode the 'amaratva' aspect of Samskrutham.  This needs connecting Samskrutham to Yoga in Vedas, Gita and  Patanjali.

       The 'amaratva' model' of Samskrutham is connected to the axiom:   Learn and Use Languages like Yoga for Yoga benefits.      

 

      Jaina / Buddha equivalent :  अर्हन्त-  सिद्धdirectives for Prakruth and social langauges. These are Value trainers ;   कुशल- पुरुषार्थ - परमर्थ -  धर्म - श्रेयस् - निःश्रेयस्-   बोधक / प्रेरक / चर्यावर्यजनाः   , धर्म - कर्म-योगाचार्याः)' .  

 

2.  The quest of   Samskruth Langauge-grammar study  under  'Vedanga'  model has provided  system and methods to safeguard 'Vedas' and ensure social utility of ' Application of Vedas in the form of Upa-Vedas'. This is clearly articulated in almost all disciplines, more clearly in Niruka:   <    कोऽन्वस्माकं ऋषिर्भवतीति    > Who amongst us will be the 'Succeeding Rushi,  a Successor of this great heritage, a defender and propagator, meeting that standard of excellence?.  The training and audit is aimed for this goal. This Guru-Kul  school has responsibility  to defend the  'amaratva'  propositional axiom  of Samskrutham.   When Samskruth studies in post colonial period took an exit from the ' Vedanga' model losing the direction and directive , the inhouse-breakdown for Samskrutha/ Panini  studies began  at India.  Rest is history and lamenting.

 

3. Latin as a liturgical prayer langauge has not gone out of  ' Christian Religion society/ community !  Neither the language of the jewish or Islamic community. 

    Explore  https://theconversation.com/why-pope-francis-is-reviving-a-long-tradition-of-local-variations-in-catholic-services-83942 ;

 

      With approximately 1.311 billion members (2018), the Latin Church remains by far the largest particular church not only in the Catholic Church or Western Christianity, but in all Christianity. 

     [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Church   ]

 

  None of these religions have given up on 'their sacred language of gods and scriptures; they have not altered the language model to study-teach-practice' the sacred langauge;  they have not alowed academic freedom to meddle with the texts and langauge of the sacred heritage.  The language-scholars  of sacred texts  keep  connecting 'Source langage  to Society, through the mechanism of  social langauge discourses , including  english. Using social language bridge is not a substitution or reconstruction of source langauge -texts .

Compare  this to  in house  models demands on  'Samskruth in liturgy, rituals '! This  beneficiaries of ' samskruth- amaratva / deva bhashaa'  has responsibility  to defend the  'amaratva'  propositional axiom  of Samskrutham in this context, beyond faith, without leaving a shread of doubt.   

 

4.   The action at SOAS, University of London  and related exchange of observations  opens up a flood of  questions on how and why  of ' Human relation to Language'. There are several dimensions of this relation explored  and articulated cryptically in  several  Samskruth expressions. One such  expression in Subhashita reads  < वाग्भूषणं भूषणम्   , विद्या-विहीनः पशुः   >  This brings out the 'Human Culturing relevance to ' transform and elevate 'animal' in human to become a person of excellence.

 

The  language model and key concept of a 'Sacred universal langauge, for human communion and communication with Universe-Sacred Divine, for ' Punya and Purushartha through yajna- yoga- poojaa'  is reflected in the design of  Yaskas Nirukta and  Panini's ashtaadhyayi  < छन्दस् - भाषा  pairing in Panini  as 'Veda-Bhashaa -anga' ,  the traditional langauge model for Samskruth ;   The native linguistics grouping  connects languages in three  connected streams and segments  : लोक-भाषा (प्राकृतम्) - देवभाषा (-अमरभाषा) - दर्शन भाषा (श्रुति) .

This model is not constricted  to the IE linguistic carrying  root anchor to ' Tower of Babel story and language branching -movements, the key stone of western linguistic analytics  used for  Samskrutham-Langauge studies. 

 

The  social relevance of Samskruth, under a colonial lens challenged the very relevance of  'sanskrit studies'  at every level of education at India;  rated using this underpinning of 'essential language skill to eke out a livelihood in a 'religious society', to keep people together under control by fear or favor related to ' gods' ?!  .  The popular opinion standing  out   justifies this  statement : If one has some knowledge of Sanskrit, the only job they are fit for is a ' ritual, temple, school teaching related work, where high status and low socio-economic power, a life style of stretched hands to bless and receive charity is  forced  imminent mind set.   ((भू-देव , दरिद्र-विप्र).

 

Again coming back, What would be the consequences for samskruth Langauge user communities if ' Amaratva' of Samskruth is taken out and substituted by ' historic ancient classic feature'?  Would ' Samskruth based scripture using religion called Hinduism would still be a  part of world- Religion' ??

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Vidwans,

The main reason for the survival of Sanskrit are :

1)  The shisthas of Sanskrit did not live in isolation and mingled with the masses.  This might have helped in enriching local or regional languages. Of course these shishtas engaged in  performing rituals which brought the language they spoke social recognition.  There is a reference to this in the Mahabhashya - the brothers यर्वन तर्वन used to corrupt words which speaking with commoners but would not do so in Yadnya. This brought status to the Sanskrit Language. 

2)  Sanskrit is not a foreign language to this land.  One cannot overlook the fact that though as languages each Indian language is different from the other and so also different from Sanskrit yet at the letter level they share a common pool of letters.  This has helped Sanskrit from not becoming a dead language.  Do we see this vis-a-vis Latin or Greek.  Is the morpheme pool of all European Languages the same?  The more unfortunate part of European Languages is that instead of sharing a common morpheme pool they share a common script. It is exactly the opposite with India.  Indian Languages share a common letter pool with different scripts.

With regards, 

Achyut Karve. 

2)  

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[उ॒ज्ज्व॒लः]

Do we see this vis-a-vis Latin or Greek.  Is the morpheme pool of all European Languages the same?

ग्री॒ग्भा॒षाया॒ अप्यु॒च्चार॑णे म॒हान्तो॑ भे॒दा दृ॑श्यन्ते दे॒शे दे॑शे यु॒गे यु॑गे।

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_Ancient_Greek_in_teaching 

[L Srinivas]

In Latin, there's been a steady battle between the old and new pronunciation. One of the differences between these two have been the pronunciation of the 'c' sound. The new pronunciation would restore it to its classical hard sound whereas the old pronunciation was the soft one. Thus for Cicero, it was 'sisero' vs 'kikero'. This is even captured in a famous English movie, 'Goodbye Mr Chips' where a Latin teacher Mr Chipping is pulled up for teaching the old pronunciation.

See: https://youtu.be/WkRTkj2mC1k

Among various experts, the contribution of one i.e., W Sydney Allen thru his work, Vox Latina, in restoring the correct Latin pronunciation is acknowledged by most Latin textbooks these days. Allen's also the author of the rather influential Phonetics in Ancient India.

Hope this helps,

Srini

[Radhakrishna Warrier]

Yes, "देशे देशे युगे युगे" there is much more variation in Greek pronunciation than in the case of Sanskrit. This could be because of the more logical and scientific arrangement of the varṇamālā of Sanskrit (and other Indic languages), the more scientific ancient inquiry into phonemes (dhvani) and the increased focus on correct pronunciation, especially of the Vedas and mantras (incorrect pronunciation of mantras was believed to bring very bad consequences to the utterer.) 

"However, there is often no mention of the ancient aspirate pronunciation of θ, φ and χ, which are different from the modern fricative pronunciation."​ 

I don't remember where I read this, but what I read was that the change of aspirated pronunciation of Greek θ, φ and χ to the current fricative pronunciation began happening before two millennia.  Originally, they were pronounced like Indic थ, फ, and ख   but later changed to the fricative th as in English "think", f (फ़, ف ) and k͟h (ख़, خ).  

The transliteration of the name of the Indo-Greek king Agathocles as Agathukleyesa (अगथुक्लेयेस) in Brahmi shows that the pronunciation of θ at that time was like Indic थ.  Below is the picture of the coin of Agathocles reproduced from Wikipedia article   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathocles_of_Bactria.

Regards,

Radhakrishna Warrier

In Brahmi, the "Rajane" is not very clear. We can see Ra and ne, but the ja is obscured by what appears to be Krishna's Sudarshana Chakra.

""

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Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:58 PM
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Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} only Sanskrit remains... (SOAS)

 

Do we see this vis-a-vis Latin or Greek.  Is the morpheme pool of all European Languages the same?

ग्री॒ग्भा॒षाया॒ अप्यु॒च्चार॑णे म॒हान्तो॑ भे॒दा दृ॑श्यन्ते दे॒शे दे॑शे यु॒गे यु॑गे।

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_Ancient_Greek_in_teaching 

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[Madhav Deshpande]

As I remember, all this discussion began with a report that the School of Oriental and African Studies at London is closing down the teaching of many low-enrollment languages due to financial hardship, and Sanskrit is one of the few languages that have survived this massive budget cut for the time being.   Our discussions here are focused on how Sanskrit is clearly not dead for us and how important in Indian culture. Such appropriate justifications in India make it possible for the Government of India to allocate a significant amount of money for the teaching and promotion of Sanskrit. But such government funds are not available for languages like Sanskrit in the west. There is nothing like the Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan in any other country. With all our justified admiration for Sanskrit in India, the financial crises in European and American universities are so overwhelming that often the decision to maintain or shut down a particular subject ultimately comes down to enrollments in that subject. The teaching of modern foreign languages in the US universities is supported to some extent by the National Defense Language Fellowships offered by the Federal Government. However, such funds are not available for the teaching of ancient languages like Sanskrit, Avestan, Sumerian or Assyrian. The questions for the universities then become primarily financial.  Do the enrollments in a given subject provide sufficient revenue to justify the expenditure on that subject?  We had similar situations and discussions at the University of Michigan a few times in the past. In my own department, an instructor who wanted to teach some low-enrollment classes had to teach a few other high enrollment classes to justify the cost of the salary for that instructor.  Some governments like China, Korea and Japan have poured money into foreign countries to promote the teaching of their languages and cultures. The government of India is evidently doing some such efforts, but they are not enough to alleviate the financial crises in western universities. I am glad to hear that Sanskrit has not faced the same fate as some other languages in London at this time, but this is no guarantee of the future. The Covid-19 situation has significantly added to the woes of the universities and the teaching of not only Sanskrit, but all humanities, is in some serious trouble.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

namo vidvadbhyaH

While as a person who appreciates languages, I feel a little bad about this, I don't know if I really feel too bad about these happenings quite frankly speaking. All these institutions were founded by imperialist powers to further their ambitions. Let's study the languages, new and old of a country, so that we can loot them in the most efficient way possible, that was indeed the purpose of all these Western institutions. That's why these departments were financed to begin with. Entire Western museums are but a small testament to these people proudly displaying their loot and many times used to educate in a "scientific" way, the rude natives of their own culture, even to this date. Even the Sanskritist Ingalls was originally employed by the OSS (the precursor to the CIA). While a good percentage of these people may have been personally good (I have no idea either way), they were but cogs in the wheel for efficient looting or furthering the foreign policies of their countries. There was/is also the nexus between these people and the conversion mafia. The conversion mafia, at least in the USA, is hardly educated (and that's an understatement) and really don't need any knowledge to promote their agenda. They peddle miracles and cures, not texts and exegesis. Perhaps the people in many of these institutions were very conveniently blind to the fact about how their "studies" were being used, or where/why their funding was coming from, but those are the facts. Now that this kind of wholescale direct looting cannot happen any more, and conversion can happen more directly, the money to these kinds of language and religious studies have evaporated. Now more money is going into areas where there is more money to be made. You can see these in so-called ivy league humanities schools in the US where many centers of "studies" are set up with money from dictatorial regimes and lectures will be given on democracy to actual democracies like India. Typically these will have fancy names like laboratory for democracy, smart government and other such neo-liberal (*) garbage.You will see many top government officials spending a year or two to boost their resume and then go out and further the cause via working in "think tanks", consulting firms etc., - no need for complicated language studies. They will also invite compliant natives and use them as props at convenient times. Entire new humanities disciplines have sprung up to give respect to what is but enabling of whole-scale looting, that's the bottomline.

I agree with Kushagra-ji on how Indians should approach Sanskrit.

Ramakrishnan

*neo-liberal = new fancy term for looter/intellectual garb of the process of looting as exemplified by "The Economist" and such, and has nothing to do with twitterati consider to be "left wing" and "right wing". Both left and right economists in the US and elsewhere are mostly neo-liberal, their only fight is whether the loot obtained from poorer countries should be more or less equitably shared among the citizens of their own countries. 

[L Srinivas]

I concur with the sentiments expressed in this thread. It's clearly sad when classical/ancient languages are neglected for want of funds.

Regardless, I find it odd that  Indian public money is sometimes pledged to foreign universities for language studies or for special chairs. Government of Tamilnadu pledged Rs 10 Cr - not a trivial sum by any means -  towards establishing a Tamil Chair at Harvard University. I never understood what ordinary public in TN would get out of this chair.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/tn-announces-10-crore-for-tamil-chair-in-harvard/article19931803.ece#!

Thanks,

Srini

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

namo vidvadbhyaH

Regarding financing foreign chairs, the mentality is similar to a VP I once observed at a company. He would promote exclusively people who had wanted to quit for another job. As a matter of fact if a good engineer tried to quit, he would pull all stops to retain him and it seemed you were on a fast track in the promotion ladder immediately. It puzzled me till I interacted a bit with him. He had a deep seated inferiority complex (he was in fact quite useless, so that complex had a basis in fact :-)).  and was convinced the company he worked for was useless as well, and if people just stayed there, they were useless too since he assumed that they stayed back only because they didn't get anything better. Regardless of all posturing most of the kazhagam thoNDars (starting with D or A) are completely convinced that people working on Tamil language are essentially worthless, and of course if a foreigner spouts some stuff on it, he must be doing some great since he obviously has other options. So much for my theories. But here's what I read a while back:

https://shiva4senate.com/dr-shiva-ayyadurai-stops-harvard-tamil-professorship-scam/

Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai claims to have single handedly put the kibosh on the Tamil chair, I don't know how true this is. While the latter part of the article is somewhat  "Cuckoo for cocoa puffs" as they say in the USA (at least IMO), the beginning part is actually spot on: 

According to Dr. Ayyadurai, “The fundraising effort in the name of setting up a Tamil Chair is a ruse that exemplifies Harvard’s habitual exploitation of indigenous people. This is an egregious example akin to a burglar asking you to pay money to buy a rickety ladder to rob your own home. Harvard is asking Tamilians to pay $6 million for a professorship that will be used to rob their own historic artifacts worth trillions of dollars representing the ‘Holy Grail’ of the world’s most highly-prized indigenous knowledge.” Harvard will then proceed to use access to those artifacts to rewrite and hegemonize Tamil history, an unfortunate and recurrent process that Harvard has done for far too long to many indigenous cultures.

A Hedge Fund Masquerading as a University
Harvard’s financial statements reveal that the university is fundamentally a tax-exempt Wall Street hedge fund with cash and investments of nearly $35 Billion. In 2016 alone, Harvard’s capital marketing campaign raised $7 Billion, with its hedge fund in 2017 yielding $2 billion in gross profits. The operating budget further reveals that professors and administrators effectively serve as business development staff to attract wealthy donors to fund Chairs and professorships that finance their lucrative hedge fund. In 2017, as the Boston Globe reported, Harvard’s seven top hedge fund managers earned a total of nearly $58 million in compensation.

Dr. Ayyadurai said, “As these numbers indicate, Harvard is a hedge fund masquerading as a University, which perpetuates this facade by reinvesting large portions of its hedge fund proceeds to unleash propaganda that it is a ‘world-renowned’ institution of higher learning and scholarliness dedicated to advancing humankind. This branding attracts financing from well-meaning folks, compelled to ‘join the club’ so their children get preferential treatment when applying to Harvard and access to Harvard’s insider network. This dynamic is rarely discussed in the mainstream media.” Nearly one-third of the students admitted to Harvard are beneficiaries of a well-documented legacy and preferential admission system that is not merit-based but on “who you know” or who donated money.

Dr. Ayyadurai’s leadership in opposing the “Harvard Tamil Chair” has led to significant discussions on social media. Questions are being raised about why Harvard exists. Does Harvard exist as a center of research and learning? Or, does Harvard exist to enrich itself through its hedge fund activities? Given the historic value of Tamil, why didn’t Harvard fund Tamil studies with its own $6 million, particularly given that the amount would be a paltry sum (which would be less than one-tenth of one-percent of the $7 billion Harvard raised from its recent 2016 capital campaign)?

[ ...]

Harvard has a track record of destroying indigenous people’s heritage and culture by seizing control of their property, intellectual and otherwise. In 2011, an exposé revealed that Harvard used its hedge fund cash to take over land in Africa leading to forcible displacement of indigenous farmers. The Harvard Tamil Chair would have offered a gateway for Harvard to exercise control over the rare and ancient palm leaf manuscripts — the intellectual property of the indigenous people of Tamil Nadu.

Ramakrishnan

PS: BTW, the cash-and-carry business, namely give me your cash and carry your degree, in Harvard is actually not 1/3rd of admissions as Appadurai says, but is estimated to be more in the 45% - 50% range by many other people.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Llet us note Prof. Deshpande's words in yhe present thread:

The teaching of modern foreign languages in the US universities is supported to some extent by the National Defense Language Fellowships offered by the Federal Government.  

https://www.clscholarship.org/

Each summer, CLS provides rigorous academic instruction in fifteen languages that are critical to America's national security and economic prosperity. CLS participants are citizen ambassadors, sharing American values and promoting American influence abroad.  

What is 'Critical' in this 'Critical Language Scholarship' ? 

 in a chosen language critical to U.S. security and competitiveness. 

 (see under Language Flagship at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Education_Program#Initiatives)

All these initiatives are part of NSEP. Official website here :

https://www.nsep.gov/

At NSEP, our primary mission is to develop a pipeline of foreign language and culture expertise for the U.S. federal government workforce.T  

"NSEP award recipients bring unique and highly needed skills: academic excellence coupled with international exposure, varied experience and strong language capability... such hallmarks are valuable for ONI and the greater Intelligence Community. "

-Office of Naval Intelligence

"NSEP scholars acquire skills that prepare them to grow into exemplary analysts and have demonstrated the ability to effectively apply cultural knowledge, analytical thinking and linguistic skills to intelligence issues."

-National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Madhav Deshpande]

Good points brought up by Nagaraj Ji.  These are clearly the interests of the US Federal Government in financially supporting the study of modern foreign languages that are deemed critical for US national defense.  I don't see anything wrong with the American government being concerned about its own national defense interests. Sanskrit does not fit that bill and hence does not get any support in this category.  Insidently, this reminds me of an account of the 1962 India-China war written by a Marathi captain who was taken captive by the Chinese.  He writes that the Chinese army had officers trained in all major Indian languages and one officer spoke to this Marathi captain in fluent Marathi.  On the other hand, the captain writes that the Indian army had a total of three people who could understand and interpret Chinese, and two of them were stationed in Delhi and only one was on hand on the eastern frontier.  The Russians, Germans, French and others also have robust foreign language programs, in part for their national defense interests.  I hope the situation has improved by now in India, and more attention is being paid to the study of foreign languages for the sake of national defense and other interests. There was, in the US, no defense related funding for the study and teaching of Sanskrit, and yet the American universities started teaching Sanskrit around the 1850s. There was Sanskrit teaching at the University of Michigan from the 1890s.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

tUniversity of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Bijoy Misra]

Madhavji,

There was, in the US, no defense related funding for the study and teaching of Sanskrit, and yet the American universities started teaching Sanskrit around the 1850s.

This statement may be true, but I have reason to believe that sanskrit teaching was done to translate the scriptures for evangelical work which continued for a century

or longer.  It was most likely connected to the Jesuits interest to "teach" in the local languages in the "colonies."

Best regards,

Bijoy

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Bijoy Ji,

     Certainly, there were some in the US who studied Sanskrit with missionary interests, but more studied it in order to further their understanding of the Indo-European linguistics.  The earliest was W.D. Whitney [February 9, 1827 – June 7, 1894] whose inspiration came from the German scholar Roth with whom he spent a few years in Germany, and I see no connection of a missionary zeal in his edition and translation of the Śaunakīya Atharvaveda and the phonetic treatise Śaunakīya Caturādhyāyikā, and his wide contributions to linguistics. There was serious engagement by Whitney with Indo-European linguistics, and Sanskrit was an important part of it. More general info on Whitney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dwight_Whitney

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

Here are some thoughts on this subject:

1. It is certainly true that Whitney was an outstanding scholar. In a few decades it will be 200 years since he published his studies and they are still very worthwhile consulting even if not accepted wholeheartedly. That's a testament to his scholarship. While it's certainly true that he may have studied it only as an intellectual pursuit, the same cannot be said of European scholars of that age and their successors later. Many of them were evangelists and in later decades Nazis as well. It's just that India and proselytization were not in the radar of the white Americans those days, they were more directly interested in mass genocide of Native Americans and subjugation of African Americans. 

2. Coming to the last century and more recent times, we have an example of an ivy league professor from UPenn using prestigious publishing venues such as the SUNY press to defend the writings of a Nazi evangelist. Why should the writings of a Nazi evangelist, who got kudos from the Nazi pope Ratzinger, on non-christian cultures have any validity at all? Best relegated to the dustbin. Would anyone other than an idiot defend the writings of a KKK grand wizard in African American studies? The sad state of affairs is that these people are quoted to this day as "experts" on Hinduism, as I saw in the last WSC. This is current USA South Asian/Sanskrit studies.

3. How about all the religious studies departments aligned with theological schools? The biggest con job is what they call "interfaith dialogs". Has any Muslim or Christian person changed their mind based on this? The Indic religions have no issue here. Based on a common principle of vAda, not only have there been conversions within Vedic schools but also between that not non-vedic schools such as Buddhism and Jainism. Judaism is a bit different, there are more "broad-minded" trends within that religion. The fact that many of these folks study Sanskrit and claim to provide "unbiased" views of Hinduism is just hogwash. Again this is the state in the US as of today.

4. Other than very small domains like vyAkaraNa, most of the US academics have no problems commenting on politics in India, issues in India etc. So what is it to say that their views are not coloring their study of Sanskrit, especially when it comes to issues like what Hindu texts say about tolerance or the history of a particular temple etc.?

5. Given the fact that you agree with Prof. Paturi, would you agree in general Hindi, Persian, Bangla, Urdu and Arabic studies in the US universities are merely an adjunct of the US government and primarily to assert American hegemony? Do professors in these departments project themselves as unbiased scholars or merely adjuncts of the CIA or state department or whatever? I am afraid they project themselves as unbiased scholars. What would you or Western academia say if let's say Sri Narendra Modi set up 10 chairs for studying these languages in JNU to promote the views of the Indian government? Honest question here.

Ramakrishnan

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Shri Ramakrishnan Ji,

     I don't know why I am made to answer all these questions, as if I am defending something or other.  It is clear to me that every government in the world has its national interests as part of their educational policies, and neither India nor US are exceptions to this.  Clearly, the American government's support for the teaching of critical foreign languages is motivated by their defence concerns.  However, while the US government supports the study of these modern languages, no such support is available for the study of classical languages.  Secondly, while the US government supports the teaching of languages, the advanced study of literature, philosophies, ancient histories etc. does not have any such government support.  If you know anything about the US universities, the basic teaching of modern languages is done by the lecturers who are not expected to do research work, while the professorial rank faculty is evaluated on their research contributions.  When it comes to languages, religions, philosophies etc., in most of the cases the research areas have hardly anything to do with concerns of the US government.  Are there some individual scholars who may have pro-Nazi, or pro some religious interests? Indeed, such individuals exist, but you can also read critiques of such individuals and their work coming from other western scholars.  I have not noticed any topic where all western scholars are in complete agreement. You can read the vocal disagreements between Cardona, Rocher, Staal and Kiparsky. In this respect, I see a similar diversity of opinions about everything within India.  It is not the case that all Indian scholars agree on all subjects, because they are all Indians.  Traditional scholars also have their sectarian affiliations. The Dvaitins don't accept the views of the Advaitins. I personally believe that one is not obligated to accept the conclusions of any scholar, western or Indian, just because they are western or Indian, but one has the obligation of rationally judging their research and developing an opinion of those conclusions for oneself.  That is what I have done personally in my own research work. Being western or Indian by itself is not a deciding factor for me. I have agreed and disagreed with scholars irrespective of whether they are western or Indian.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Narayan Prasad]

>  an account of the 1962 India-China war written by a Marathi captain who was taken captive by the Chinese.  

>He writes that the Chinese army had officers trained in all major Indian languages 

>and one officer spoke to this Marathi captain in fluent Marathi.  

>On the other hand, the captain writes that the Indian army had a total of three people 

>who could understand and interpret Chinese, and two of them were stationed in Delhi 

>and only one was on hand on the eastern frontier.  

>The Russians, Germans, French and others also have robust foreign language programs, in part for their national defense interests.  

Could you please give the reference which has the above account?

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

[Madhav Deshpande]

Will try to find this Marathi book.  My memory is that the name of the author is Captain Belvalkar, who was the son of the great Pune Sanskritist Professor S.K. Belvalkar.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Madhav Deshpande]

I cannot locate the Marathi book by Captain Vasudev Belvalkar in my personal library, but came across this interesting article referring to the language training of the Chinese military officers: 

https://theprint.in/opinion/what-plas-india-specialist-officer-said-in-1962-gives-us-a-clue-to-how-china-thinks/475890/

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

[Narayan Prasad]

BTW, what is the title of the book  by Captain Vasudev Belvalkar? Could it be अरुणाचलाच्या सीमेवरून?

https://www.rasik.com/cgi_bin/display_author.cgi?authorId=a1335&lang=marathi

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

The information that there are defense related National(ist)/ Governmental interests behind the studies of Indian languages abroad may come as a surprise to those who might have been thinking that the studies are based on the 'greatness' , 'beauty' etc. of their languages and the appreciation/acknowledgement of those qualities and love for their languages based on such appreciation on the part of funding agency and the scholars and students studying them, not to people like you who have always been in the know of such things. 

BTW, can you share information, if you have, about similar/ comparable programs by Government of India on non-Indian /foreign languages ?

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Nagaraj Ji,

     You need to separate the interests of the government and the interests of the students and professors.  The US government supports only the basic language teaching, but anything beyond that is done by students and professors because of their deeper interests in those languages and cultures.  Lumping all latnguage and culture study in the US or Europe as related to and motivated by political considerations makes no sense to me. I have not studied the policies of the Govt of India, and cannot say anything about them with any authority. I was mentioning my impressions from reading an account of the 1962 war written by Captain Vasudev Belvalkar where he reported that the Chinese army had officers trained in all major Indian languages, while the Indian army had very few officers who understood Chinese.  I hope things have changed by now.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Narayan Prasad Ji,

     I think that is the book by Captain Belvalkar that I had read some years ago, but I don't have a copy of that book now in my possession. That book, based on the first hand experience of Captain Belvalkar is an eye-opener.

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Narayan Prasad]

OK, Sir. Thanks for confirming the title.

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

I asked you about comparable programs from Government of India because you said "It is clear to me that every government in the world has its national interests as part of their educational policies, and neither India nor US are exceptions to this. " 

But you saying twice in the thread that the article on 1962 Indo-China war mentioning about a lack of such program on the Indian side and you expressing hope that situation could have improved on the Indian side shows that you are fort similar / comparable programs on the Indian side. 

This also shows that you are against those who talk and campaign against Indian government's policies on Yoga, Ayurveda etc., serving Indian national interests. 

-----

I agree with you also with regard to the need to separate the motivations on the part of the students and scholars and the funding governmental and non governmental bodies. I always think that sometimes the funded researcher may not even be aware of the strategy/motivations of the funding agency behind funding. 

But it can not be generalised that the motives of all the students and scholars studying languages foreign to them are not political. 'Political' does not always mean the ideas of the governments or political parties running for the governments in their countries. In Social Sciences and Humanities in those countries, it is very much common for studies being oriented towards political and social ideologies centered around their own ideas of social justice and human rights etc. Most of these philosophies /ideologies oppose the ideas of nations, national, nationalism etc. This is what makes them view the love of the mother tongue speakers towards their language as 'nationalistic' 'chauvenistic' etc. and talk against the mother tongue speaker's love towards that mother tongue. Not just mother tongue, there are heritage classical  languages loved by different nations as their common classical heritage. Greek and Latin are such common classical heritage for all the European nations. Sanskrit is such common classical heritage for the speakers of all the Indic languages. Calling Sanskrit 'toxic' 'dead' etc. is also motivated by such clearly political ideologies only. Indians who have been thinking that foreign scholars studying Sanskrit and Indian languages do so out of love and admiration for these languages are shocked to know such views of these scholars towards their mother tongue and heritage languages. They may wrongly conflate the national motivations of the foreign governments and these political motivations of these scholars. But nevertheless what is common is their shock to know that the love and admiration that they think as the motivations for the study of their languages is not true. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

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[उ॒ज्ज्व॒लः]

 

Indians who have been thinking that foreign scholars studying Sanskrit and Indian languages do so out of love and admiration for these languages are shocked to know such views of these scholars towards their mother tongue and heritage languages.

स॒त्यम्। ब॒हवः॑ स्वाभिमा॒निनो॑ हि॒तबु॑द्धयो॒ जना॒स्तान् वैदे॑शिका॒न् प्रशं॑सन्ति॒ तेषा॑म् अभिप्रा॒यम् अजा॑नन्तः। अथा॒त्मनः॑ सम॒येन॑ वि॒त्तेन॑ च पोषय॒न्त्यपि॑। तन् म॒हद् अब्र॑ह्मण्यम् भवति। तस्मा॒त् केनाप्य॒न्यस्यो॑पका॒रं गृ॑ह्ण॒ता स्वा॑भिप्रा॒यो नि॑वेदित॒व्य॑ ए॒व। यदि॑ वा॒ स स्व॑मतप्रचा॒रः स्याद् अथ॑ स्वराष्ट्ररक्षोपा॒यो वा॒ स्याद् अथे॑तिहासज्ञा॒नार्ज॑नं वा॒ स्याद् अथ॑ भाषाज्ञा॒नार्ज॑नं वा॒ स्याद् अथ॑ तत्त्वज्ञा॒नार्ज॑नं वा॒ स्यात् सर्वं॑ प्रकाशयित॒व्य॑म्। तज् जा॑न॒ता येन॒ या स॑हा॒यता॑ क्रि॒यते॒ सा ग्र॑हीत॒व्या॑। वञ्च॑नं॒ न का॒र्य॑म्। अ॒न्यथा॑ दु॒ष्टाश॑यानां॒ कार॑णाच् छ्र॑द्धाविना॒शाज् ज्ञा॒नार्ज॑नादीनां शुभाश॒याना॒म् अपि॑ ही॒नता॑ भविष्यति।

True, many innocent Indians praise these foreign scholars, not knowing their intent. And devote them time and money. This is wrong that's happening. Anyone using another person must make clear their intent and reason, whether it be propagation of one's political or religious views, or national security, or historical studies, or linguistic studies, or true spiritual interest. They should be content with whatever individual Indians offer after knowing about it. Trickery must be avoided. Else, due to lack of trust caused by the activities of those with bad intent, there will be loss to good intents like knowledge-oriented interests, too.

[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Nagaraj Ji,

When I read your comment "This also shows that you are against those who talk and campaign against Indian government's policies on Yoga, Ayurveda etc., serving Indian national interests." I see that you are reading something far deeper into my words. I am not for or against any policies of the government of India, and I have not participated in any political movements in India.  I am more closely familiar with the policies of the American government, as I have lived here in the US for 53 years and served at the University of Michigan, than I am with the policies of the Indian government. I know that from time to time, US government officers used to visit university campuses to interview students for government jobs, and I didn't think there was anything strange about that. I also know that the governments of China, Korea and Japan were financially supporting the study of their languages and cultures at the University of Michigan and at many other universities, and they obviously had their own national interests.  My account of the 1962 India-China war is entirely based on the reports of Captain Belvalkar, and I cannot say much more than that. I don't know if the Indian government today does or does not support foreign language teaching from the point of defence concerns.  I hope it does. That is just about what I have to add to this discussion. With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

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[Bijoy Misra]

Friends,

Besides Government funding for national interests (as advocated), there does exist an allergy to Indian scholarship

abroad. (Books and papers on Sanskrit grammar may not cite Panini even though some may mention in passing!,

Anyone hardly knows Valmiki, but they know Goldman.)  This is a blatant violation of scholarship, mostly because

of cultural ignorance as I can estimate. or could be deliberate.(national interest!)  It is more distorted in cultural texts

like Ramayana, Mahabharat or Devi. It is not easy to understand Indian culture unless one grows up in it.  The

perception and habits are different.  "yoga" as a word can mean different in India and in the west.  Though good funding

the west does create a breed of scholars who remain semi-educated but that does not prevent them in producing books

and compilations and these get market in India.  Most are possibly sincere, but do lack depth.  "vak" is not language,

"brahman" is not god.  Unfortunately such stuff proliferates in India because of general facility in English.  The schools

in the US portray India very differently than most parents' knowledge.  Immigration itself is a difficult enterprise. 

Unfortunately many working Indians participate in endorsing the bias for personal survival and safety. There should arise

a groundswell in India to readjust Middle and high school education, which must not be driven by political or religious

pressures.  India's contribution to the world is her literature.

So is my opinion on the subject.

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

https://political-science.uchicago.edu/directory/john-mearsheimer

https://twitter.com/meghkalyan/status/1229259778406244352?s=20

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[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Oct 12, 2020 Remarks by Deputy Secretary Stephen E. Biegun 

" We do not seek to change India’s traditions. Rather we want to explore how to empower them and India’s ability to defend its own sovereignty..." [Emphasis mine]

Atleast at the level of rhetoric, could it just be that Dr. Mearsheimer, amongst a few others, has been heard? 

https://twitter.com/meghkalyan/status/1246783674445467648?s=20

Time might tell us and Kashmir may be one litmus test. 

Best,

Megh

[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Megh Ji,

     Speaking for myself as an American citizen, I don't trust what the Trump administration says about anything, let alone about India. Trump's love for Modi and India, like all his policies, is purely transactional.  What is in it for him. He hopes to get money and votes from the Indian American community, which generally votes democratic. Among my own acquaintances, I don't know anyone who is supporting Trump. Right now filling my mail-in-ballot for the election. Best,

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJypMHf0Fxirx7moJTJ7V0Pkrkt2PJE1z87jwb1Z68g59ujGMg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

Namaste Dr. Deshpande, 

An election in America is, frankly, and speaking as an Indian citizen, none of my business (generally speaking), other than when it begins to affect 1) the interests of my nation (including but not limited to its legitimate territorial sovereignty) and hence mine 2) global peaceful non-interfering co-existence (more generally speaking) [not listing all reasons here].

Yet, since you have invoked the impending American elections, allow me to chime in by saying that while I am no fan of Trump (and have been publicly critical about some of his decisions), I would definitely not like to be an Indian-American (who still feels any sense of loyalty towards India's sovereignty) at a polling booth this year, when the choices are what they are, especially given my reading (which I actually hope is wrong but worry it might not be wrong enough) of the position taken by Democrats on some aspects including the developments in Kashmir post the deoperationalization of  Article 370. Anyway, wishing all American citizens, including yourself, a peaceful future. 

https://twitter.com/meghkalyan/status/1229275400603197440?s=20

Best,

Megh

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[Venkatakrishna Sastry]

Namaste

 

1. The discussion on this thread is probing deeper and deeper in to the past  of 'South East Asian studies ' covering 'Indian languages/ in particular Sanskrit ,( Hindi …)  and Tamil'.

      Post Colonial scholars have taught current generation Indians  on how to study their own native tradition, differently.  The  wisdom of Master Kuan invoked at the Berkely University is worth deep 

      contemplation.

 

"If you plan for a year, plant a seed.

If for ten years, plant a tree.

If for a hundred years, teach the people.

When you sow a seed once, you will reap a single harvest.

When you teach the people, you will reap a hundred harvests"

-The Book of Master Kuan

Please explore the  following Links for more. :

 

https://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/hundredharvests/introduction ( Each sub section needs focused reading.].  

 

Introduction

by Richard M. Buxbaum, Dean of International and Area Studies

 

In the words of the 12th century Buddhist hermit, Kamo No Chomei: "The flow of the river is ceaseless and its water is never the same." For well over one hundred years Asian studies have been central to the teaching, research, and service missions of the Berkeley campus. Because of the foresight of University founders, Asian studies courses were offered soon after the University's inauguration.

 

Early programs concentrated on the languages, literatures, and histories of the region. They laid the foundation for the development, after World War II, of fullblown academic programs encompassing the humanities and social sciences, the natural and physical sciences, and the professional disciplines. In the last two decades the burgeoning economies of Asia have catapulted a once esoteric branch of knowledge to prominence throughout the University.

 

Berkeley's Asian programs consistently rate among the very best in the country and attract scholars and students from all over the world. Because of its location on the Pacific Rim, the campus shares a special kinship and lively interaction with the countries of Asia. The Asian community, desiring to preserve an ancient heritage and to promote a deeper understanding of the region's modern societies and cultures, has provided scholarly and professional expertise and an unprecedented measure of generous support for Berkeley's many Asian programs, which we are proud to represent through this splendid exhibit.

 

A Hundred Harvests: the History of Asian Studies at Berkeley pays tribute to the scholars and philanthropists who founded and continue to nurture the programs that enrich the University of California, Berkeley. Through the archival holdings and matchless library collections showcased in the exhibit the ceaseless flow of the river unfolds.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326009566_Completing_the_Circle_Southeast_Asian_Studies_in_Southeast_Asia

[ Reid, Anthony & Diokno, Maria. (2018). Completing the Circle: Southeast Asian Studies in Southeast Asia. ]

 

2.  On  <  comparable programs from Government of India >  the researchers  may have to be look at the history and education  policies framed by  GOI .

     The wisdom of GOI is what seems to work  at India. 

 

Suffice it to say that  present     'Sanskrit'   remains…..at India in 2020,  is  a direct  outcome of  free and conscious choices opted and exectured  by GOI.   

On same count,  the  likely remains of  'Sanskrit'   ..at India in 2040,  will  be   a direct  outcome of  free and conscious choices opted and exectured  by GOI in 2021.

 

What would this be is any body's guess. It could be a get back to 14th century model of Sanskrit studies;  it could be a new and hybrid avatar of ' Colonial + Oriental + South East Asian'  Classical langauge studies.   OR, it could be a ' hybrid of human languges non-english like in the Technology Institutes  used for computational linguistics research under the tag and company of classical languages'.

 

The Samskruth loving teams need to make  their wish and choice  to ensure Paninian ( and Patanjali-Yaska)alignemnt and  steer government action. I use the term 'Yoga-Samskrutham ' for this standards.

 

3.  The following links provide material of interest to read in this regard.  Please  Don’t push the langauge scholar to explain the 'beyond language- political and other strategies' in supporting  language studies and research-chairs.

  

On a comparable period of time, the work done for 'Sanskrit' outside of India  with the support of Indian scholars has yielded greater quality and quantum of  'primary and dependable original material'  on which much of  current Indian studies and claims are resting.  

 

4.    Suffice it to say: (i)   The interest in India and Indian languages, specifically  for Sanskrit and its applications in Ayurveda and ' Yajna- Mantra- Mystic Weapons' has a  long history with foreign connections.  Studying this interest  in a narrow window  will not reveal the   deep and true roots.  The history needs to be seen in various segments of pre-colonial, post colonial to World war-2, Shift of focus from UK to Germany, France  and then to USA, US interest in rest of world and Ford Foundation support for Oriental studies, Post India Independnece actions,  21st century trends.   This will only reveal the 'past Karma- Trajectory'  for ' blame game'   rather than ' Future Action plan' for  leadership and atmanirbharataa.  If we don’t understand in home land the source material, If our own native understanding of tradition is at   cross roads and cross purpose, why  blame others ?    (ii) Pegging Nations interest in its own heritage languages  is as important as its policy on 'foreign language related  education openings'. (ii) More than Government action, the language communities should have been  proactive  in safeguarding and nurturing with  investments   the native heritage languages and groom the 'next generation' to be sensitive to the heritage language. 

 

In short : The  motive for  Language studies in the west seems to have a clear  alignment to  national and religion interests.  At India, the alignment is for spiritual or business interests.  

                    The motive for Language studies in the Panini-Patanjali- Yaska vedic tradition, in the lane of  ' Vedanga'   is clearly for balanced  alignment of 'Purushartha and Paramartha'. achievement.

                    Sri sukta is clear on this point:    ' Praadubhotosmi Rashtresmin, keetim,Vruddhim dadatu me, …. alkshmim  naashayaamyaham.

 

Select excerpts from the link above:

 

South Asian studies has a long and distinguished history at Berkeley. Benjamin Ide Wheeler was himself a student of Sanskrit. Sanskrit was taught at Berkeley beginning in 1897 and in 1906 the first professorship in Sanskrit was created when celebrated scholar and translator, Arthur Ryder, joined the Berkeley faculty. South Asia related programs were gradually expanded in succeeding decades, but began in earnest in 1940 when Murray Barnson Emeneau came to Berkeley. He taught and conducted research in Sanskrit and Dravidian linguistics, and Indian ethnography and folklore. He was joined after the war by the great anthropologist David Mandelbaum and subsequently by a broad array of scholars working on the languages, literatures, history, art, music, politics, economy, peoples, and societies of the South Asian region, one of the most populous and diverse in the world.

 

Historical development after World War II provided an impetus to the introduction of teaching and research programs focusing on the Southeast Asia region in American higher education. Funded by the Ford Foundation, the Southeast Asian studies program was inaugurated in 1954 to meet a national need and the extensive interest in Southeast Asia at the University of California, Berkeley. (  https://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/hundredharvests/southeast-asian-studies )

 

Showing great foresight, the Center for South Asia Studies began an effort in 1990 to establish endowed chairs to insure the future of South Asian studies at Berkeley. The success of their efforts can be seen in three new endowed chairs established through tremendous outpouring of support from the South Asian-American community, not only in the Bay Area, but across the country.

 

The Sarah Kailath Chair in India Studies was established by Thomas Kailath, and Vinita and Narendra Gupta in honor of Dr. Kailath's wife, Sarah Kailath, to enhance awareness and knowledge of issues relating to the Indian subcontinent. The current chairholder is Robert P. Goldman, Professor of Sanscrit in the Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies.

 

With assistance from the Consulate General of India, San Francisco, the Center also conducted a campaign to raise endowment funds from the Indo-American community resulting in the Indo-American Community Chair in India Studies. Inaugural lectures for both the Sarah Kailath Chair in India Studies and the Indo-American Community Chair in India Studies were delivered by former Ambassador to India, John Kenneth Galbraith, and Nobel Laureate physicist, Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar. (https://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/hundredharvests/south-asian-studies )

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Madhav Deshpande
Sent: Tuesday, 13 October, 2020 6:29 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} only Sanskrit remains... (SOAS)

 

Dear Nagaraj Ji,

 

When I read your comment "This also shows that you are against those who talk and campaign against Indian government's policies on Yoga, Ayurveda etc., serving Indian national interests." I see that you are reading something far deeper into my words. I am not for or against any policies of the government of India, and I have not participated in any political movements in India.  I am more closely familiar with the policies of the American government, as I have lived here in the US for 53 years and served at the University of Michigan, than I am with the policies of the Indian government. I know that from time to time, US government officers used to visit university campuses to interview students for government jobs, and I didn't think there was anything strange about that. I also know that the governments of China, Korea and Japan were financially supporting the study of their languages and cultures at the University of Michigan and at many other universities, and they obviously had their own national interests.  My account of the 1962 India-China war is entirely based on the reports of Captain Belvalkar, and I cannot say much more than that. I don't know if the Indian government today does or does not support foreign language teaching from the point of defence concerns.  I hope it does. That is just about what I have to add to this discussion. With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

 

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

 

 

On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 2:18 AM Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

 

I asked you about comparable programs from Government of India because you said "It is clear to me that every government in the world has its national interests as part of their educational policies, and neither India nor US are exceptions to this. " 

 

But you saying twice in the thread that the article on 1962 Indo-China war mentioning about a lack of such program on the Indian side and you expressing hope that situation could have improved on the Indian side shows that you are fort similar / comparable programs on the Indian side. 

 

This also shows that you are against those who talk and campaign against Indian government's policies on Yoga, Ayurveda etc., serving Indian national interests. 

 

-----

 

I agree with you also with regard to the need to separate the motivations on the part of the students and scholars and the funding governmental and non governmental bodies. I always think that sometimes the funded researcher may not even be aware of the strategy/motivations of the funding agency behind funding. 

 

But it can not be generalised that the motives of all the students and scholars studying languages foreign to them are not political. 'Political' does not always mean the ideas of the governments or political parties running for the governments in their countries. In Social Sciences and Humanities in those countries, it is very much common for studies being oriented towards political and social ideologies centered around their own ideas of social justice and human rights etc. Most of these philosophies /ideologies oppose the ideas of nations, national, nationalism etc. This is what makes them view the love of the mother tongue speakers towards their language as 'nationalistic' 'chauvenistic' etc. and talk against the mother tongue speaker's love towards that mother tongue. Not just mother tongue, there are heritage classical  languages loved by different nations as their common classical heritage. Greek and Latin are such common classical heritage for all the European nations. Sanskrit is such common classical heritage for the speakers of all the Indic languages. Calling Sanskrit 'toxic' 'dead' etc. is also motivated by such clearly political ideologies only. Indians who have been thinking that foreign scholars studying Sanskrit and Indian languages do so out of love and admiration for these languages are shocked to know such views of these scholars towards their mother tongue and heritage languages. They may wrongly conflate the national motivations of the foreign governments and these political motivations of these scholars. But nevertheless what is common is their shock to know that the love and admiration that they think as the motivations for the study of their languages is not true. 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Megh Ji,

Unfortunately, "peaceful future" is what we in the US are worried about whether Trump wins or not.  You have probably heard/read about the white supremacist supporters of Trump plotting to kidnap the democratic governor of Michigan. The future looks very grim at the moment, especially for all those of us who are now labeled as "people of color".  The situation will get especially bad if Trump loses the election, because white supremacist rioting is expected to be unleashed on the streets.  I have never been worried like this in my 53 years of life in the US.  The election of Obama to presidency lead to the rise of fear among the white supremacist groups that the whites in the US are going to become a minority and lose their previleged position.  I hope things are not going to get that bad, but certainly there is a possibility of violent reactions in many places in the US. 

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USAt

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJypMHdavGK5-qfuhzSgcrBr%2BGAC32YdptP%2B_jVubuaDRV1x7Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

> When I read your comment "This also shows that you are against those who talk and campaign against Indian government's policies on Yoga, Ayurveda etc., serving Indian national interests." I see that you are reading something far deeper into my words. I am not for or against any policies of the government of India, and I have not participated in any political movements in India. 

------ In fact, you are trying to find some deeper meanings from my post. I did not say YOU  are for or against any policies of the government of India, or YOU participated in any political movements in India. I was pointing my finger at certain western scholars who made open remarks against the work of Government of India to promote Yoga and Ayurveda. When you said that governments having their national interests in mind is natural and justified, I said that such a view implies that the work of scholars who made open remarks against the work of Government of India to promote Yoga and Ayurveda is not justifiable. So I was plainly and directly saying that in consonance with your view  that governments having their national interests in mind is natural and justified, you must be taking the position that the work of scholars who made open remarks against the work of Government of India to promote Yoga and Ayurveda is not justifiable. 

>I also know that the governments of China, Korea and Japan were financially supporting the study of their languages and cultures at the University of Michigan and at many other universities, and they obviously had their own national interests.

--- These are not at all comparable to the programs of funding  studying /teaching foreign languages in one's own country for defense/security/intelligense purposes. A program in  China, Korea or Japan to study languages foreign to those countries being funded by the governments of their countries would have been comparable. A program in India to study languages foreign to India being funded by the government of India also would have been comparable. 

>My account of the 1962 India-China war is entirely based on the reports of Captain Belvalkar, and I cannot say much more than that. I don't know if the Indian government today does or does not support foreign language teaching from the point of defence concerns.  I hope it does. 

--- This shows that you are not against, moreover you are in favour of  A program in India to study languages foreign to India being funded by the government of India for defense/security/intelligence purposes. 

But I do not know of such programs. 

But here in this thread, the focus is on the actual motives of funding the study of Indian languages being other than love and admiration for these languages.  

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[Madhav Deshpande]

Dear Nagaraj Ji,

Thanks for your clarifications. I don't have much more to contribute to this discussion.  More worried about the US elections and their outcomes for those of us living here in the US. With best regards,

     

Madhav M. Deshpande

Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJGj9eZoT-vUBn%3DJor8Z8BkvyNcV3B4-xvqAx-qz1PEJkHyPyg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Megh Kalyanasundaram]

"...on some aspects including the developments in Kashmir..." in the Oct 13, 2020 at 10:17 PM note in trail below. 

https://twitter.com/rkkaulsr/status/1358194799329869824?s=20