Dashaangulam

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

Dear sarve
I am terribly intrigued by the enigma of Dashaangulam found in purushasukta RV. 10.90.1. I find no interpretation is satisfactory. I request to be enlightened by 1600 scholars of this forum.

[Venkata Sriram]

Pujya Pandurangiji,

You are good scholar and hope you can understand the following commentaries of Sayana and Sudarshana Suri:

Sayana Bhashya

//

https://ia801704.us.archive.org/2/items/Anandashram_Samskrita_Granthavali_Anandashram_Sanskrit_Series/ASS_003_Purushasukta_with_Sayanabhashya_-_GB_Kale_1952.pdf

//

Sri.Sudarshana Suri Vyakhya (vide page no. 769)

//

https://ia601502.us.archive.org/21/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.312258/2015.312258.Kenadyupanishat-Purusha.pdf

//

Hope you found the interpretation satisfactory.  It is upa-lakshaNa to denote the finite aspect as angula is used for counting purpose. Since the puruSa is 

infinite, He is described to be beyond the count of 10 anuguLas which denotes His omnipresence.

regs,

sriram

[Nagaraj Paturi]

ब्रह्माण्डाद्बहिरपि ब्रह्माण्डाद्बहिरपि सर्वतो व्याप्यावस्थित इत्यर्थः ।

How much / far beyond Brahmanda? 

10 inches beyond Brahmanda.

To say 'a little more', the word '10 inches' is used as upalakshaNam. 

   

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

I have seen all these commentaries. They fail to give correct understanding.
My problem is why only Dasha? Why not one to nine? What is the significance
Why should he get up?

[Venkata Sriram]

Because we count using 10 fingers only. Even the count of gAyatri in sandhyavandana should be done using 10 fingers पर्वभिस्तु जपेद्देवीं....

So, maintenance of count / sequence etc. is done with 10 fingers.  That which is finite / measurable, is denoted with count of 10 fingers and it's multiples.  

regs,

sriram

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen all these commentaries. They fail to give correct understanding.
My problem is why only Dasha? Why not one to nine? What is the significance

 

Why should he get up?

To this question we seem to get the answer in the upcoming lines of the pu.su.:

त्रिपादूर्ध्व उदैत्पुरुष: ।  For this the sāyaṇa bhāṣya is: योऽयम् त्रिपात्पुरुषः संसारस्पर्शरहितब्रह्मस्वरूपः तोऽयमूर्ध्व उदैदस्मादज्ञानकार्यात्संसाराद्बहिर्भूतः सन्नत्रत्यैर्गुणदोषैरस्पृष्ट उत्कर्षॆण स्थितवान् । 

I think here the reason for the Puruṣa's being untouched by the samsāra attributes is conveyed through this metaphor: he is 'above' this created world, as though physically above. 

A similar expression is available in the BG 9th chapter:

मया ततमिदं सर्वं जगतदव्यक्तमूर्तिना । 

मत्स्थानि सर्वभूतानि न चाहं तेष्ववस्थितः ॥ ४ ॥ 

The entire creation is within Me but I am not in them. 

Shankara's commentary for the relevant parts of the verse is: मया मम यः परो भावः तेन ततं व्याप्तं सर्वम् इदं जगत् अव्यक्तमूर्तिना ............तेषां भूतानाम् अहमेव आत्मा इत्यतः तेषु स्थितः इति मूढबुद्धीनां अवभासते ; अतः ब्रवीमि — न च अहं तेषु भूतेषु अवस्थितः, मूर्तवत् संश्लेषाभावेन आकाशस्यापि अन्तरतमो हि अहम् । न हि असंसर्गि वस्तु क्वचित् आधेयभावेन अवस्थितं भवति ॥ ४ ॥

[shankara]

Sir,

The following article by Ananda Coomaraswamy might be useful to you.

Ananda K. Coomaraswamy, Rgveda 10. 90. 1 aty atisthad dasangulam, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 66, No. 2. (Apr. - Jun., 1946), pp. 145-161.

regards
shankara

---

From: Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com>
To: bvparishat <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 23 February 2017 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Dashaangulam

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[Dipak Bhattacharya]

<veerankp@gmail.com>

Dear Professor Pandurangi,

According to some authorities there are certain mythological numbers that do not literally conform to reality but symbolically express general themes -- here the idea of totality or sufficiency by da¿¡ṅgulam. As far as I know it was the French scholar Abel Bergaigne who initially stated the idea in the nineteenth century. Later, Karl Gustav Jung, Psychology and Religion, West and East, 1958:167 clearly enunciated the theory. According to that ten is a convenient number of that type in India and elsewhere. So the da¿a in da¿¡ṅgulam, expresses a theme, that of largeness here, and should not be taken literally.

This is presented with all humility and no intention of sermonizing. Please do not hesitate to give your own ideas on this and criticize, if you feel so. .  

There might be opponents of this theory and you are free to criticise it.

Best wishes

Dipak Bhattacharya

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sarve
I am terribly intrigued by the enigma of Dashaangulam found in purushasukta RV. 10.90.1. I find no interpretation is satisfactory. I request to be enlightened by 1600 scholars of this forum.

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[Dipak Bhattacharya]

<veerankp@gmail.com>

Dear Professor Pandurangi,

According to some authorities there are certain mythological numbers that do not literally conform to reality but symbolically express general themes -- here the idea of totality or sufficiency by da¿¡ṅgulam. As far as I know it was the French scholar Abel Bergaigne who initially stated the idea in the nineteenth century. Later, Karl Gustav Jung, Psychology and Religion, West and East, 1958:167 clearly enunciated the theory. According to that ten is a convenient number of that type in India and elsewhere. So the da¿a in da¿¡ṅgulam, expresses a theme, that of largeness here, and should not be taken literally.

This is presented with all humility and no intention of sermonizing. Please do not hesitate to give your own ideas on this and criticize, if you feel so. .  

There might be opponents of this theory in the list which I have bypassed. But you are free to utilize it.

Best wishes

Dipak Bhattacharya

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Venkata Sriram <srira...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

I express unqulaified apology for posting a private mail to the List. But anyopne can read and criticise my views.

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen all these commentaries. They fail to give correct understanding.
My problem is why only Dasha? Why not one to nine? What is the significance
Why should he get up?

The word ‘ten’ is also said to mean ‘infinity’, as numbers are only up to nine and what is above is regarded as numberless. Dasangula is taken as upalakshaNam of Pursusha He is described to be beyond the count of 10 anugulas. This describes his immeasurable size. Another possible interpretation would be extends beyond in the Ten Directions ( represented by Ten Fingers )
Enveloping the earth from all sides and transcending it by ten fingers length ( As when one counts with fingers we have only ten fingers to count) or transcending  all ten directions. Or He has enveloped this world from all sides and has (even) transcended it by ten angulas or inches (Angula also mean an inch)

'Gets up' is used in the sense He arose from the yajna that was performed.

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Hari Parshad Das]

dear vidvaj-janas,

my pranams. please find attached Srimad-bhagavatam 2.6.12 - 15 with commentaries from the Madhva-sampradaya. The Bhāgavata-prakāśikā commentary on the 15th verse by Sri Yadupati Acharya explains the term vitastim according to the term 'daśāṅgulam' given in the puruṣa-sūkta. This edition was published by Shri K.T. Pandurangi.

Alternatively, you can also refer to the commentary of Srila Sridhar Swami on this verse of the Bhagavatam.

sādhu-caraṇa-rajo 'bhilāṣī,

hari parshad das.
------------------------------------------------

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 11:34:36 AM UTC+5:30, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote:

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Now I have a supplementary question why did the Purusha have a thousand heads and not ten thousand. I don't know the answer to this question

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Hari Parshad Das]

Another extract from the Book — "Pinnacles of India's Past: Selections from the Ṛg-veda" by Walter H. Maurer which explains the term daśāṅgulam on similar lines as the Madhva-commentaries:

​

The basic idea is that the Puruṣa is simultaneously all pervasive as well as he appears limited in form due to his divine māyā. This happens by his own will and he is never under the control of māyā.

Some more pramanas for simultaneous all-pervasiveness and limitedness:

asthūlo’naṇur amadhyamo madhyamo’vyāpako vyāpako harir ādir anādir aviśvo viśvaḥ saguṇo nirguṇaḥ (Madhva-bhāṣya on Brahma-sūtras)

turīyam aturīyam, ātmānam anātmānam, ugram anugram, vīram avīraṁ, mahāntam amahāntaṁ, viṣṇum aviṣṇuṁ, jvalantam ajvalantaṁ, sarvato-mukham asarvato-mukham (Nṛsiṁha-tāpanī Upaniṣat, 2.3)

There are more pramanas too in this regard.

sādhu-caraṇa-rajo 'bhilāṣī,

hari parshad das.

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen all these commentaries. They fail to give correct understanding.
My problem is why only Dasha? Why not one to nine? What is the significance
Why should he get up?

Many have have explained this in their own way. 

I just noted the use of   दशाङ्गुल according to Sayana is not the exact 10 angula, but it is used as उपलक्षण. In the others alsp सहस्राक्ष etc. also it is not used in the sense of 1000, but to plurality  अनन्तसङ्ख्याक. This is the intention of सहस्र' How do you take उपलक्षण is left to your Nyayatheory. This is taken to concord ईश्वतश्चक्षक्षुरुत विश्वतस्पात्, संबाहुभ्यां संपतत्रै etc.

The others take it exactly ten angula extent of ह्त्पद्म as posted in earliter replies. In that case also the extent of Purusha is not limited Ten Angula only, but over and above pervading it to ब्रह्माण्ड or more. अत्यतिष्ठत् explains this pervading over and above.  

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

i dont think this is something understandable. why not 123456789?21 24 

see here some vedic passages of Shatapatha

तां वा अनुष्टुभा जुहोति । सैषानुष्टुप्सत्येकत्रिंशदक्षरा भवति दश पाण्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्या दश प्राणा आत्मैकत्रिंशो यस्मिन्नेते प्राणाः प्रतिष्ठिता

एतावान्वै पुरुषः पुरुषो यज्ञः पुरुषसम्मितो यज्ञः स यावानेव यज्ञो यावत्यस्य मात्रा तावन्तमेवैनयैतदाप्नोति यदनुष्टुभैकत्रिंशदक्षरया जुहोति (श.प.ब्रा. ३.१.४.[२३])

स वै पञ्च प्रायणीये देवता यजति । पञ्चोदयनीये तस्मात्पञ्चेत्थादङ्गुलयः पञ्चेत्थात्तचम्य्वन्तं भवति न पत्नीः संयाजयन्ति पूर्वार्धं वा अन्वात्मनो

बाहू पूर्वार्धमेवैतद्यज्ञस्याभिसंस्करोति तस्माचम्य्वन्तं भवति न पत्नीः संयाजयन्ति (३.२.३.[२३])

त्रीणि ह वै पशोरेकादशानि । एकादश प्रयाजा एकादशानुयाजा एकादशोपयजो दश पाण्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्या दश प्राणाः प्राण उदानो व्यान इत्येतावान्वै पुरुषो यः

परार्ध्यः पशूनां यं सर्वेऽनु पशवः (३.८.४.[१])

तान्वा एतान् । पञ्च ग्रहान्गृह्णात्येष वै वज्रो यन्माध्यन्दिनः पवमानस्तस्मात्पञ्चदशः पञ्चसामा भवति पञ्चदशो हि वज्रः स एतैः पञ्चभिर्ग्रहैः पञ्च वा इमा अङ्गुलयोऽङ्गुलिभिर्वै प्रहरति (४.३.३.[४])

 यद्वेव चतुर्विंशतिः । चतुर्विंशो वै पुरुशो दश हस्त्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्याश्चत्वार्यङ्गानि पुरुषः प्रजापतिः प्रजापतिरग्निर्यावानग्निर्यावत्यस्य मात्रा

तावतैवैनमेतत्समिन्द्धे (६.२.१.[२३])

ता एता अङ्गुलयः । ताः । सर्वत उपदधाति सर्वतो हीमा अङ्गुलयोऽन्तेषूपदधात्यन्तेषु हीमा अङ्गुलयश्चतुर्धोपदधाति चतुर्धा हीमा अङ्गुलयः

पञ्चपञ्चोपदधाति पञ्चपञ्च हीमा अङ्गुलयो नानोपदधाति नाना हीमा अङ्गुलयः सकृत्सकृत्सादयति समानं तत्करोति तस्मात्समानसम्बन्धनाः७.५.२.[६२]

तं वा अङ्गुलिभिर्मिमीते  पुरुषो वै यज्ञस्तेनेदं सर्वं मितं तस्यैषावमा मात्रा यदङ्गुलयस्तद्यास्यावमा मात्रा तामस्य तदाप्नोति तयैनं तन्मिमीते(१०.२.१.[२])

चतुर्विंशत्याङ्गुलिभिर्मिमीते  चतुर्विंशत्यक्षरा वै गायत्री गायत्रोऽग्निर्यावानग्निर्यावत्यस्य मात्रा तावतैवैनं तन्मिमीते १०.२.१.[३]

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Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Director of Academics
Dean, Faculty of Vedantas

Karnakata Samskrita University, 

Pampa Mahakavi Road,
Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

http://www.ksu.ac.in

http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/
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[Ajit Gargeshwari]

The context in which Anguli used in Shatapatha may be or is different from the context it is used in Pursha Sukat. Purusakta is more mystical Similar to various highly mystical and philosophical hymns that one finds in the Rig veda

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Dr. P. Ramanujan]

प्राचीनव्याख्यासु भवत्पर्श्नस्य द्वेधा समाधानं दृश्यते ।

१. दशशब्दः अनन्तवाची, अङ्गुलशब्दः योजनवाची । अतः दशाङ्गुलमित्यस्य अनन्तयोजनत्वमर्थः ।

२. विश्वतो वृत्वा अत्यतिष्ठदित्युक्तेः विश्वशब्देन व्यष्टिसृष्टिगताः पदार्थाः गृह्यन्ते । दशाङ्गुलमित्यत्र

समष्टिभूतानि पञ्च स्थूलानि पञ्च सूक्ष्माणि च गृह्यन्ते । अतः दशत्वसंख्यावाचित्वमेवापेक्षितम् ।

अस्य पुष्टिः - अथ यदतः परो दिवो ज्योतिर्दीप्यते विश्वतः पृष्ठेषु सर्वतः पृष्ठेषु .. इत्यादिवाक्ये

विश्वशब्दस्य व्यष्टितत्त्ववाचकत्वं,  सर्वशब्दस्य च समष्टितत्त्ववाचकत्वं च स्वीकृत्य व्याख्यातव्यत्वेन सिध्यति ।

सर्वनाम्नां सर्वादिगणे च -  सर्व विश्व इति क्रमः अस्य ज्ञापकः ।

 

रामानुजः

On February 23, 2017 at 6:27 PM Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

i dont think this is something understandable. why not 123456789?21 24 

 

see here some vedic passages of Shatapatha

 

तां वा अनुष्टुभा जुहोति । सैषानुष्टुप्सत्येकत्रिंशदक्षरा भवति दश पाण्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्या दश प्राणा आत्मैकत्रिंशो यस्मिन्नेते प्राणाः प्रतिष्ठिता

एतावान्वै पुरुषः पुरुषो यज्ञः पुरुषसम्मितो यज्ञः स यावानेव यज्ञो यावत्यस्य मात्रा तावन्तमेवैनयैतदाप्नोति यदनुष्टुभैकत्रिंशदक्षरया जुहोति (श.प.ब्रा. ३.१.४.[२३])

 

 

स वै पञ्च प्रायणीये देवता यजति । पञ्चोदयनीये तस्मात्पञ्चेत्थादङ्गुलयः पञ्चेत्थात्तचम्य्वन्तं भवति न पत्नीः संयाजयन्ति पूर्वार्धं वा अन्वात्मनो

बाहू पूर्वार्धमेवैतद्यज्ञस्याभिसंस्करोति तस्माचम्य्वन्तं भवति न पत्नीः संयाजयन्ति (३.२.३.[२३])

 

 

त्रीणि ह वै पशोरेकादशानि । एकादश प्रयाजा एकादशानुयाजा एकादशोपयजो दश पाण्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्या दश प्राणाः प्राण उदानो व्यान इत्येतावान्वै पुरुषो यः

परार्ध्यः पशूनां यं सर्वेऽनु पशवः (३.८.४.[१])

 

 

तान्वा एतान् । पञ्च ग्रहान्गृह्णात्येष वै वज्रो यन्माध्यन्दिनः पवमानस्तस्मात्पञ्चदशः पञ्चसामा भवति पञ्चदशो हि वज्रः स एतैः पञ्चभिर्ग्रहैः पञ्च वा इमा अङ्गुलयोऽङ्गुलिभिर्वै प्रहरति (४.३.३.[४])

 

 यद्वेव चतुर्विंशतिः । चतुर्विंशो वै पुरुशो दश हस्त्या अङ्गुलयो दश पाद्याश्चत्वार्यङ्गानि पुरुषः प्रजापतिः प्रजापतिरग्निर्यावानग्निर्यावत्यस्य मात्रा

तावतैवैनमेतत्समिन्द्धे (६.२.१.[२३])

 

 

ता एता अङ्गुलयः । ताः । सर्वत उपदधाति सर्वतो हीमा अङ्गुलयोऽन्तेषूपदधात्यन्तेषु हीमा अङ्गुलय श्चतुर्धोपदधाति चतुर्धा हीमा अङ्गुलयः

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Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
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Karnakata Samskrita University, 

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Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.

 

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

 

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[Shrikant Jamadagni]

Dear all

Prof R L Kashyap interprets dashaaangulam as "ten directions". The mantra says that the Purusha is ALL but also beyond ALL i.e. 10 directions. He says angula being measure of space or direction etc.

English word angle can have sense of direction. Here is an extract from etymology.com just for consideration that angula may mean direction also (though sanskrit dictionaries have not attested so) Sometimes a word loses its meaning in a language but retain it ij its cognates in other languages:

angle (n.)

"space or difference in direction between intersecting lines," late 14c., from Old French angle "an angle, a corner" (12c.) and directly from Latin angulus "an angle, a corner," a diminutive form from PIE root *ang-/*ank- "to bend" (source also of Greek ankylos "bent, crooked," Latin ang(u)ere "to compress in a bend, fold, strangle;" Old Church Slavonic aglu "corner;" Lithuanian anka "loop;" Sanskrit ankah "hook, bent," angam "limb;" Old English ancleo "ankle;" Old High German ango "hook").

Figurative sense "point or direction from which one approaches something" is from 1872. Angle-bracket is 1781 in carpentry; 1956 in typography.

thanks.

 

Shrikant Jamadagni
Bengaluru

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[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

But nowhere in koshas angula is found in the sense of yojana.
People both modern and old will put into vedas whatever they think. That has happened in this case too.

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Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
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Dean, Faculty of Vedantas

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Pampa Mahakavi Road,
Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.

 

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

 

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[K S Kannan]

It is Carl Gustav Jung, 

not Karl....

[Dr. P. Ramanujan]

But nowhere in koshas angula is found in the sense of yojana.
People both modern and old will put into vedas whatever they think. That has happened in this case too.

यदि कोशादेव केवलं अर्थज्ञानमिष्टं तर्हि कृतं शक्तिग्रहं व्याकरणोपमानेत्यादि प्रमाणैः ।

आप्तवाक्य, वाक्यशेष, सिद्धपदसान्निध्यादीनां, प्रकरण, लिङ्ग, औचित्य, देशकालादीनां 

उपलक्षणशास्त्रार्थस्य च निष्प्रमाणकत्वप्रसङ्गः।

भगवतः पुरुषस्य नारायणस्य सर्वव्यापित्वात् (अन्तर्बहिश्च तत्सर्वं व्याप्य नारायणः स्थितः ।

तदन्तरस्य सर्वस्य तदु सक्वस्यास्य बाह्यतः, तेनेदं पूर्णं पुरुषेण सर्वं, अणोरणीयान् महतो

महीयानित्यादिप्रमाणशतसिद्धात्)

स्मृतिषु योजनार्थः अस्मिन् प्रकरणे अङ्गुलशब्दार्थत्वेन आप्तोक्तः गृहीतः व्याख्यातृभिः ।

(पूर्वं अङ्गुलिशब्दप्रयोगाः निर्दिष्टा आसन्)

कोशे विश्वासस्य कारणमपि कोशकर्तरि आप्तिरेव हि स्यात् । अविश्वसनीयता कोशानामपि

पाश्चात्यकल्पितानां पूर्वं विमृष्टम् ।

रामानुजः

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Dashaangulam found in purushasukta RV. 10.90.1. I find no interpretation is satisfactory.

                                 --- Vidvan Veeranarayana Pandurangi

According to शुल्बसूत्रम् - पुरुष is a measurement of  पञ्च अरत्निः ।

पुरुषात् प्रमाणे’न्यतरस्याम् ( पा सू 4-1-24) ङीप् विकल्पः -- द्विपुरुषा / द्विपुरुषी रज्जुः ।

Here in पुरुषसूक्तम् ( all five वेदs ) - पुरुष ः दशाङ्गुलम् सूक्ष्मरूपेण  अत्यतिष्ठत् ।

For deciding meaning we have to visit पूर्वमीमांसा --

Sometimes one has to take the लक्ष्यार्थ / गौणार्थ  -- ’ गुणवादस्तु ’ ( पू मी सू ) -- गौणा एते शब्दाः ( शाबरभाष्यम् ) ।

..... विश्वसृजामयनं सहस्रसंवत्सरम् - is a मन्त्र । Here there is a doubt - is this सत्रम् meant for गन्धर्वs who live for 1000 years or only for मनुष्याः ?

There also - is the सत्रम् for मन्युष्याणाम्  , who enhance their longevity by रसायनs of आयुर्वेद  or  कुलकल्प ?

आयुर्वेद does not say that आयुष् can be enhanced ! - then what about prescriptions like - क्षीरेणायुष्यवर्धनम् ?  No , they are अर्थवादs , because वेद says - शतायुः पुरुषः ।

Nor can it be कुलकल्प , which means the sons , grandsons etc can perform - because the न्याय is - शास्त्रफलं प्रयोक्तरि ।

Then ?

.....गौणी संवत्सराभिधा ( शस्त्रदीपिका ) - the word संवत्सर is a गौणशब्द ---

सहस्रसंवत्सरं तदायुषाम् असंभवात् मनुष्येषु ( पू मी सू 6-7-13-31)

अहानि वा अभिसंख्यत्वात् ( पू मी सू 6-7-13-40) - सिद्धान्तसूत्रम् --

सहस्रसंवत्सरम् in the मन्त्र means सहस्रदिनानि  ।

So दशाङ्गुलम् is a गौणशब्द ।

Then why दश ,  why not नव , पञ्च etc ? 

The question is untenable , because वेद does not have a कर्ता , अपौरुषेयः वेदः --

 यः वेदस्य कर्ता सः पर्यनुयोक्तव्यः किम् ...... तदभावात् .... ( शाबरभाश्यम् अध्याय 2 ) |

In such cases the general answer is - अशोकवनिकान्यायेन  ---

where to put सीता - under अशोकवृक्ष  - - why not under an आम्रवृक्ष ? okay - then why not under a वटवृक्ष ? - natural AC --

कूपोदकं वटच्छाया तांबूलं तरुणीकुचौ ।

शीतकाले भवेदुष्णम् उष्णकाले तु शीतलम् ॥

Under some tree or the other सीता  is to be put  , so ....

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dipak...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Dr. P. Ramanujan]

On February 23, 2017 at 8:35 PM Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veer...@gmail.com> wrote:

But nowhere in koshas angula is found in the sense of yojana.
People both modern and old will put into vedas whatever they think. That has happened in this case too.

भट्टभास्करभाष्ये त्वेवमस्ति -

सः पुरुषः भूमिं भूम्यादीन् विकारान् विश्वतः सर्वतः वृत्वा व्याप्य मृदिव घटादीन् स्वाभेदेन छादयित्वा अत्यतिष्ठत् अतीत्य तिष्ठति अतिक्रम्य विकारावस्थां स्वेनैव रूपेण तिष्ठति दशाङ्गुलं दशाङ्गुलिप्रमाणावच्छिन्नम् । दश अङ्गुलयः प्रमाणं अस्येति अर्हीयस्य "अध्यर्धपूर्व" इति लुक्, "तत्पुरुषस्याङ्गुलेः" इत्यच् समासान्तः । अत्र सामर्थ्यात् हृदयाकाशपरिग्रहः । हृदयाकाशस्यैव दशाङ्गुलमित्याख्येति केचित् । हृदयं दहरं गगनं पुरुष इति पर्यायः । यद्वा - सर्गप्रकरणमिदं, अतो विकारजातं भूम्यादिकं सर्वं वृत्वा पदेनैव घनमावृत्य दशाङ्गुलमतितिष्ठति दशाङ्गुलादधोऽधिष्ठानं न करोति, अत एव भूमेर्दशाङ्गुलादधोऽङ्कुरादेरनुत्पत्तिः । सर्वगतत्वेऽपि पुरुषस्य सिसृक्षोपधानमूलकारणात्मकत्वात् सर्वकार्यदेशव्याप्त्यैव स्वप्रयोजनसम्पादनात् तदेव तस्य सर्वगतत्वमिति दशाङ्गुलात्परतो न व्याप्नोति प्रयोजनाभावादिति केचित् ॥

रामानुजः

[Bijoy Misra]

I admire the erudition here.  The logic of गौणशब्द would be very useful in most interpretations.

I observe literal translations in Ramayana and general confusion about quantity and size.

Most can be averted with the logic put forth by Prof. Korada.  One does not need to get a 

physical explanation, but a conceptual poetic understanding!

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

Sri Veernaryana Pandurangi has raised an intricate and primary question in relation to the understanding of the Purusha Sukta.  As he has stated, the traditional commentaries are not focused in answering the specific question ‘ Why a specific numeric unit mentioning – दशाङ्गुल ‘ ?  which leads to the subset questions: Why Not more or less ?

 

The ingenious explanations of commentators in traditional framework to explain ‘the numeric part – dasa’  and the ‘  measure part – Angula’ does not seem to provide a consistent (?- is it an expectation or a necessity ?) explanation for the critical mind.

 

Professor (late) S K Ramachandra rao  in his work on Purusha Sukta seems to have arrived at a balanced presentation of the traditional view on this, seen in the following extract. If the word ‘dasha’, is taken as a figurative expression ( similarly to the word ‘sahasra’ in the first richa), the apparent conflict may be resolved.

 

 

 

Another way of looking at the understanding of the text is to play with the meaning of the word ‘Purusha’ , where the term does not become a pointer to  human measure. This way the word ‘Angula’ does not become a numeric measure like ‘ten inches (?)- by finger length measure’.  Then if the term ‘dashangualam’ is taken as ‘ some distance between two points, what are the two end points supposed to be ? Here again the traditional commentaries are not uniform in their presentation. See the explanations below:  

 

 

 

 

If  we need to find a way to ‘ logically respond to the question related to the vision of Rushi (Darshana’),  and explain –‘ Why Only Dasha’ ? –  the choices are :

 

-          To stay with any one of the above explanations ?  which are linked and dependent on the way one explains ‘ Purusha’ addressed in the Sukta.

-          To  find out our own ingenious explanation ?   - Like dasha is ‘ Ten Lakaras’ of grammar, (  because the tris-sapta samidhah’ are explained as Three vachanas and Seven vibhaktis in vyakarana )

-          Take each of the traditional explanations as ‘ one type of instruction for Rik-Viniyoga ’ following Bruhaddevataa – guidance.   

 

 

Whichever way one takes, there will always be a gap left for rising a ‘doubting question’ ! from a human perspective :What was the gap and transcending projection, if ‘ Purusha’ is ‘All that is, was and would be’? What then was the space that remained ‘to be filled through the transcendence’ ?  

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Though SaayaNa does not go beyond his 'beyond' interpretation, some of the commentaries did take the das'aangulam to indicate the micro (cosmic) aspect which is apart from / over and above the macro (cosmic) form described by Sahasra S'eershaa etc. (aNoraNeeyaan mahatomaheeyaan)

The Vaamanaavataara narrative seems to be the vEdaartha upabrimhaNa of this mystic description in this sukta.

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[Dipak Bhattacharya]

Carl is the French spelling;Karl = German. Cf., Karl Marx

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

I agree both Karl and Carl are acceptable. Swiss German pronunciation: [ˈkarl ˈɡʊstaf jʊŋ]. His name was also spelt as Karl Gustav Jung. There was no spelling error in Prof. Bhattacharya's post.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[K S Kannan]

I knew of only one, the common, spelling.

Thank you for clarification

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Jung was Christened as Karl Gustav II Jung, named after his paternal grandfather Carl Gustav I Jung, but gave in to a 'modern' spelling of the name.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[rniyengar]

My free lance discussion:

In the absence of direct meanings, better to go by 'correlation of words, phrases and thoughts' of similar hymns. There is one such hymn in the Tai. Aranyaka: सहस्र शीर्षं देवं .....अधो निष्ट्या वितस्त्यान्ते नाभ्यामुपरि,,,  This hymn is clearly about the चिदाकाश but related to the physical distance between the bodily navel and the mystical ह्रदय (not the heart on the left side of the body). Vitasti as a measure is equal to 10-12 angula (details in S'ulva sutras. Some texts equate/designate 1 purusha=10 vitasti). Subject to  our limitations in articulating or re-expressing the direct experience of the मन्त्रद्रष्टा the RV hymn relates to what we routinely refer to as the अन्तर्यामिन् . This line of thought is in tune with the commentary of Bhatta Bhaskara cited already by Dr.Ramanujan.

with kind regards to Prof.Pandurangi and others 

RN Iyengar

[Nagaraj Paturi]

This seems to be taking us close to some convincing answer to why only number 10, in stead of taking das'aangulam as upalakshaNa.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Parallels between vAmanAvatAra narrative and Purusha Sukta:

 trivikramarUpa ---- vis'vatovritvaa 

vAmanarUpa ---- das'Angulam , if taken as the sookshma form 'apart from' (ati = apart from /over and above) the virADrUpa

Bali, the name ----- Yajna,  one of the central  motifs of Purusha Sukta. 

three feet motif ------the word / concept of  tripaada 

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

24/2/2017
Dear Colleagues,
A clarification with confirmation of the spelling Carl Gustav Jung.

Please see the publication Psychology and Religion : West and East London 1958 where the name is spelt Carl

Best
DB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

Shri Hari Parshad Dasji has referred to the Bhagavatam as follows:

Quote

The Bhāgavata-prakāśikā commentary on the 15th verse by Sri Yadupati Acharya explains the term vitastim according to the term 'daśāṅgulam' given in the puruṣa-sūkta.

Unquote

If the word "vitastim" means "half-a-cubit", this word can be considered equivalent to the word "Dashangulaam". It is believed that when one faces difficulty on interpreting certain things in the Veda, one should look for the help from the Puranas, and to my knowledge, the Bhagavatam, according to the Padma purana is also considered the highest of the Puranas.

Regards,

Sunil KB

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[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

thanks to all for better clarifications.

i would uitilize them in my commentary.

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Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
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Karnakata Samskrita University, 

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Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.

 

अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

 

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