Manu Smriti

[Ravi Khangai]

Respected Scholars,
Namaskarm.
In which ch of Manusmriti it is mentioned that woman should remain dependent on her father during childhood, on her husband during youth and on her son during old age like ''Kaumarye raksit Pita......etc"

thanking in advance.

--

"My heart is so full of love for God, that there is no space left for the hatred of Satan"- Rabia, 8th century Sufi.

-Dr. Ravi Khangai, Assistant Professor, P.G.T.D. History, RTM Nagpur University, Nagpur, Maharashtra, India-440033

Adjunct Faculty

Hindu University of America

5200 Vineland Road, Suite 120, Orlando, FL 32811, USA.

Mo- 918446000912, 919665575896

[Hnbhat B.R.]

 
पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने।
रक्षन्ति स्थविरे पुत्राः न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥ (९.३)

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने।
रक्षन्ति स्थविरे पुत्राः न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥ 

" woman should remain dependent on her father during childhood, on her husband during youth and on her son during old age " not the meaning of this verse.

Man should 'protect' 'take care of' a woman as father of a girl-child, husband of a young woman and son of an old woman. Woman does not deserve to be left to her own protection, uncared for at any stage of her life.  

--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

In an older post on a related topic, I posted as follows:

 अर्हति in न स्त्री स्वातंत्र्य मर्हति is similar to अर्हसि in  न स्त्वं शोचितु मर्हसि . Just as in  न स्त्वं शोचितु मर्हसि , the idea is you are too high in stature to weep, in न स्त्री स्वातंत्र्य मर्हति too, the idea is woman is too high in stature to be left to self-protection. The preceding three lines of the verse are talking about protection /looking after /taking care of only. Rule of consistency compels only one meaning to the word स्वातंत्र्य, i.e., being left to self-protection/ self-care, to be left as a destitute only. Thus this unduly notorious line from the book is in fact is ordaining the males not to leave the female members of their family to self-protection. 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

In response Prof. Kannan posted as follows:

To heartily concur with Prof Paturi, nothing was deemed beneath dignity than forcing a woman to fend for herself. Such was also the stand taken by Dr DVGundappa, one of the great luminaries of our own times, renowned for his sagacity and wisdom, such as elicited the appreciation even of Ananda Coomaraswamy.

[Ashok Aklujkar]

In the citation of Manu 9:3, the reading should be sthāvire (with a dīrgha ā). The contextually required meaning is ‘in old age’.  

a.a.

[Srinidhi Pyati]

[Srinidhi Pyati]

Chapter 9 verse 3

[Venkatesh Murthy]

This was true in olden days because women had no financial independence. Today more and more women are financially independent from fathers, husbands and sons. With money any body can buy protection. No problem.

What is true today is this the Bhujanga Metre Sloka  given in Apte Dictionary -

धनैर्निष्कुलीनाः कुलीना भवन्ति ।
धनैरापदं मानवा निस्तरन्ति ।
धनेभ्यः परो बान्धवो नास्ति लोके ।
धनान्यर्जयध्वं धनान्यर्जयध्वम् ॥

Money is the best relative and best friend. If you want a better friend get a dog.

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[shankara]

Sir,

Thanks for pointing out the usage of Arhasi in the Gita.

I strongly believe that our ancestors had great regard for woman. Still I would like to know whether there are any instances in Sanskrit literature where the word 'svatantryam' is used explicitly in the sense of 'self-protection, self-care'?

regards
shankara

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 8/10/16, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Manu Smriti
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Date: Saturday, 8 October, 2016, 2:53 PM

In an
older post on a related topic, I posted as
follows:
 अर्हति in न
स्त्री स्वातंत्र्य
मर्हति is similar to अर्हसि in  न
स्त्वं शोचितु मर्हसि .
Just as in  न स्त्वं शोचितु
मर्हसि , the idea is you are too high in stature
to weep, in न स्त्री
स्वातंत्र्य मर्हति too,
the idea is woman is too high in stature to be left to
self-protection. The preceding three lines of the verse are
talking about protection /looking after /taking care of
only. Rule of consistency compels only one meaning to the
word स्वातंत्र्य, i.e., being left to
self-protection/ self-care, to be left as a destitute only.
Thus this unduly notorious line from the book is in fact is
ordaining the males not to leave the female members of their
family to self-protection. 
On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 2:47
PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>

[Ravi Khangai]

Thanks for all the response, 

 Patrick Olivelle's translation given below is not right? I found this after I had started the thread on BVP

Thanks

'“As a child she must remain under her father’s control; as a young woman, under her husband’s; and when her husband id dead, under her sons. She must never speak to live independently” (The Law Code of Manu 5.148, 149)

  

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[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

Can we  look at the translation of the word ‘rakshati/ rakshanti’ from the root ‘ raksh’ in a slightly different angle ?  

 

The indicated translation is associating  the meaning ‘ dependency’ for the word ‘rakshati/ rakshanti’ and making it mandatory by the use of the word ‘should’.

 

‘Kaumare’- in the pre-puberty period /before a formal marriage , Father protects – functions as the guardian for the ‘Stree’.

‘Yauvane’- in the post puberty / married status, Husband  protects – functions as the guardian for the ‘Stree’.

‘Sthavire’ – in the old age, children protects – functions as the guardian for the ‘Stree’.

 

In such an environment of society, which is guided by the context of Manu Smriti 9^th chapter and preceding slokas (9-1 and 9-2),  the last part reads ‘ Stree’ does not qualify for a ‘ licentious, Self –Opted  freedom’.

The Sloka (9-3) is conditioned by the preceding sloka (9-2)  for whom the sloka applies. The ‘Stree’ who is ‘  immersing herself in the sensuous path, a licentious path ( Vishayeshu sajjantyah).

 

What if conditions also apply here, which again are detailed and deliberated in  Manu Smriti. Women who are not married under parental care, Women who opt for ‘swayamvara’, Women who opted for ‘ celibacy’ (like Anasuya and Priyamvada in Shakuntam),  Women who did not have children after marriage, children abandoning parents, …

 

It is in this wider context, the original text passage needs a better translation and contextual explanation to bring out a holistic view of Manu on Women; and not fragmented isolated preferred distortions.  Issue of History are different from Value parameters, from a tradition which projected ‘Maatru Devo Bhava’.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

While the spirit of the Manu Smriti is required to be generally maintained in all Smritis, Vedavyasa tells us in the beginning of the Parashara Smriti, that subsequent to the Manu Smriti several other Smritis were required to be written, keeping in mind the changing times in the subsequent yugas.

Regards,

Sunil KB

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

> Patrick Olivelle's translation given below is not right?

'“As a child she must remain under her father’s control; as a young woman, under her husband’s; and when her husband id dead, under her sons. She must never speak to live independently” (The Law Code of Manu 5.148, 149)

Obviously not right, Dr Ravi Khangai!

पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने।

रक्षन्ति स्थाविरे पुत्राः न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥

Where is the word meaning 'control' in the first three quarters of the verse ?

Where is the word for 'must never speak to' in the last quarter?

[Ravi Khangai]

Thanks to all scholars. greatly obliged

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Let me reiterate the points I made in the earlier context:

1. For the handling of the issues covered by Manusmriti , majority of Indians do not follow that book. They follow their own caste -codes and tribe-codes that are secured by their respective caste panchayats. 

2. The particular section mentioned by the news report is 2/213 etc. is part of a section of Manusmriti dealing with the code for a Brahmacharya-bound vidyaarthi living in the residence of his teacher. Hence the code applies only to such vidyaarthis, not to everyone. 

3. Statements are to be viewed from the reference frame, from where they are made. The verses before and after the ones under question are all talking about the behaviour of the vidyaarthi towards the teacher, his wife etc. The verses under question are directed towards the indriyanigraha on the part of the male student are not directed towards the nature of women. 

4. In many western countries, there are regulations not allowing children of opposite sex to share the bed or bed room. 

मात्रा स्वस्रा दुहित्रा वा न विविक्तासनो भवेत् 

is not more weird than this, as this is talking about a sexually mature person. 

5. अर्हति in न स्त्री स्वातंत्र्य मर्हति is similar to अर्हसि in  न स्त्वं शोचितु मर्हसि . Just as in  न स्त्वं शोचितु मर्हसि , the idea is you are too high in stature to weep, in न स्त्री स्वातंत्र्य मर्हति too, the idea is woman is too high in stature to be left to self-protection. The preceding three lines of the verse are talking about protection /looking after /taking care of only. Rule of consistency compels only one meaning to the word स्वातंत्र्य, i.e., being left to self-protection/ self-care, to be left as a destitute only. Thus this unduly notorious line from the book is in fact is ordaining the males not to leave the female members of their family to self-protection. 

6. Male chauvinism is not because of Manusmriti but in spite of it. Male chauvinism is more in societies that do not have Manu smriti. 

7. It is easy to protest currently unused, currently uninfluential books than to be respectful and not lustful towards women. 

8. As long as the universities do not teach their students to critically understand the diversionary propaganda that leaves the lustful to keep the position of women vulnerable, the youngsters keep falling into the trap of such misplaced anger.     

[Ravi Khangai]

Thanks Paturi Sir for such a detailed response. I am enriched.  

[Nityanand Misra]

On Saturday, 8 October 2016 23:56:14 UTC+5:30, nagarajpaturi wrote:

> Patrick Olivelle's translation given below is not right?

'“As a child she must remain under her father’s control; as a young woman, under her husband’s; and when her husband id dead, under her sons. She must never speak to live independently” (The Law Code of Manu 5.148, 149)

Obviously not right, Dr Ravi Khangai!

पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने।
रक्षन्ति स्थाविरे पुत्राः न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥

Where is the word meaning 'control' in the first three quarters of the verse ?

Where is the word for 'must never speak to' in the last quarter?

May I point out that the translation by Patrick Olivelle is for the verse number 5.148 which reads 

बाल्ये पितुर्वशे तिष्ठेत्पाणिग्राहस्य यौवने।

पुत्राणां भर्तरि प्रेते न भजेत्स्त्री स्वतन्त्रताम्॥

whereas Prof. Paturi is talking about the verse number 9.3 which reads

पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने।

रक्षन्ति स्थविरे पुत्रा न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥  

Probably वश in 5.148 is what Patrick Olivelle has translated as control.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks, aadaraNIya Nityanandji, for the alert. Dr Ravi Khangai quoted the translation and asked whether it was wrong (translation of the verse under question). He pasted copying it from a source which did have the verse number. I should have noticed his mistake.

Now that we know of which verse the quoted translation is we should say, it is the correct translation of 5.148 f and not a translation at all of 9.3.

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[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

A related question:

 

There is an English  word ‘ MISOGYNY’   used in media, becoming more popular  in circulation in connection with the US Presidential election Candidates caricature in relation to his comments on ‘women’.

 

For understanding what ‘ MISOGYNY’ means, please explore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny . The link, curiously enough explains this word in the context of many world religions, but seems to miss ‘ Manu /Sanatana Veda Dharma’. 

 

The question:

 

(i)  Is there a Sanskrit word covering the complete shades of meaning associated with ‘ MISOGYNY’ ? ( the simple translation like Stree-dveshi, Ashleela -Vaktaa would not be apt in this case !)

 

(ii)  Does Manu’s Treatise on Dharma carry any seeds of thoughts that can trigger ‘ MISOGYNY’,  on comparable terms of Other World Religions listed in the above resource ? (This would bring out the true essence of Manu 9.3)

 

Regards

 

BVK Sastry

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nityanand Misra
Sent: Sunday, 09 October, 2016 6:14 AM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Manu Smriti

 

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[BVKSastry(Gmail)]

Namaste

 

On the contentious issue of ‘ Women’s Freedom and Rights’ in Manu Smriti > interpreting  the selected  line < न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति  >   Manu: 9-3.:  

 

a) Another reference 5-148/149 is pitched in where the words and context are different.  Would this mean an internal inconsistency in Manu’s thoughts /Framework of Dharma  OR the need to understand the text in context , by properly reading the literal text without overtures ?

 

There is a clear linguistic difference pointed by the use of two different verbs  in  the communicative statements and contexts .  The enforcement from the verbs make this clear.

< र्वशे तिष्ठेत्पा.. न भजेत्स्त्री स्वतन्त्रताम्॥      >  Here the conclusion is < Women shall not be entitled to Self- Sought Freedom>.

And

<  पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने। रक्षन्ति स्थाविरे पुत्राः न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति॥    > .   Here the enforced command is for the Father, Husband and Children pointing to their ‘Swa –Dharma’ – their duties, without taking any recourse to the ‘women’ or ‘ options a women has’.

 

What could be the reason for a Patrick Olivelle to  miss the obvious and project a partial view ? And why media wants to take translation as authority than the original source ?

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nityanand Misra

Sent: Sunday, 09 October, 2016 6:14 AM

To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्

Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Manu Smriti

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste Paturiji,

The protectionism  of Manu (which the modern ladies find unacceptable) was like the ideas of a  protectionist father or grand-father who found those extra-protective measures necessary in the days before the Ramayana times. Things have been changing with passage of time and different smritis appeared as was warranted. Things further changed since the times of the Mahabharata (towards the end of the Dwapara yuga), when Vedavyasa asked his father Parashara  to write a Smriti suitable for the Kali yuga. That means it is not proper to follow the Manu Smriti in toto, particularly in cases where the Parashara Smriti  and the other earlier post-Manu Smritis have deviated from the Manu Smriti. The reason for the castigation of Manu in most cases, if not all, is due to the people being unaware of the above fact.

Regards,

sunil KB

[Nagaraj Paturi]

The point I was making was that if the source of attitudes of male superiority, male dominance, male chauvinism misogyny etc. which do exist in a certain section of Indian society (just as they exist in certain sections of different world societies), are traced to books such as 'Manu smriti', it is not correct because the book is not followed by a huge majority of the Indian society in the matters that the book covers. Smriti-reading, Smriti-studying and Smriti-following sections make very small parts of Indian society. Majority of the Indian castes and tribes follow codes secured (enforced, maintained etc. ) by their respective caste-panchayats and tribe-elder-bodies in the matters covered by the Smritis.

Even among the (small) sections that have a notional respect for the books such as Smritis, those who orthodoxly quote them trying to adhere to them are even less.

The present text being called 'Maanava Dhrmashaastra' in the colophons is set as a conversation where Manu is one of the important speakers alongside Bhrigu. Manu is not the 'author' of the book just as the Guru character in Vivekachudamani is not the author of Vivekachudamani or Matsyanarayana is the author of Matsya purana.

Its influence is not documented through citations from it in any ancient or older medieval texts.

It has acquired prominence in discussions only from the colonial times onwards.

The attitude towards women as expressed in many Sanskrit texts such as Mahabharata, Ramayana and Bhagavata ,that are connected to the popular imagination of a vast majority of Indians ('Hindus') are not in consonance with many ideas expressed in the book under discussion.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

That said about the non-influential nature of the book which got popularized with the name Manu-smriti, let us see the attitude towards man-woman relation in the presently widely used version of the text:

the section on man-woman relation of which 9.3 is a part, is concluded with the following two verses:

तथा नित्यं यतेयातां स्त्री पुंसौ तु कृतक्रियौ।

यथा नाभिचरेतां तौ वियुक्तावितरेतराम् ॥ 9.102

एष स्त्री पुंसयोरुक्तो धर्मो वो रतिसंहितः ।

……………………………………………………………..|| 9.103.   

 The verses obviously  place man and woman on an equal footing and instruct married couple to be faithful to each other and not to behave contrary to the wishes of each other.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Gradually, families of all castes getting marriages in their families performed as per the Vedic procedure and with the use of Vedic mantras is widely spreading and now it is completely widespread. If the participants in such rituals care to follow the meaning of the mantras, it is these mantras that have a potential to influence the husband and wife relations.

In the kanyaadaana mantras, as is well known, it is the bridegroom who is made to take the oath after bride's father says:

धर्मार्थकामेषु त्वयैषा नातिचरितव्या!

He is made to say,

नातिचरामि! repeatedly.

If the purohit is cares to /allowed to recite the detailed mantras during Saptapadi /saatpheri , the following mantra is recited apert from the usual ए कमिषे विष्णुस्त्वान्वेतु etc. :

सखा सप्तपदा भव सखा यौ सप्तपदा बभूव सख्यं

तेगमेयगं सख्या त्ते मायोषगं  सख्या न्मेमायोष्टा

स्समयावसंकल्पावहैसं प्रियौ रोचिष्णू सुमनस्यमानौ

इषमूर्ज मभिसंपसानौ सं सामनागंसि संव्रता समुचित्ता न्याकरं

सा त्व मस्यमूह म मूह मस्मि सा त्वं द्यौ रहं पृथिवी त्वगं रेतोहगं

रेतो भृत्त्वं मनोहमस्मि वाक्त्वगं सामाहमस्मृत्त्वगं

सामामनुव्रता  भव पुगं से पुत्राय वेत्तवै  श्रियै पुत्त्राय वेत्तव एहि नूनृते

meaning:

With these seven steps of walking together, we are now friends. I got your friendship. I will never break my friendship with you. Don't you break your friendship with me. Now that we met each other let us perform all actions planning, "let us do it this way" . We met each other to enjoy food and strength together with mutual love and glorious good hearts. Whatever dharma we execute, let us execute well. You are Rigveda and I  am Samaveda. Let us live as inseparable as Rik and Saama. You are the earth and I am the sky. I am semen and you are its holder. I am mind and you are speech. Oh the pleasing speaker, come with me to beget sons and to acquire wealth. 

Mantras during Pravesha Homa are as follows:

उदुत्तर मारोहन्ती व्यस्यंती पृतन्यतः

मूर्धानं प्रत्युरारोह प्रजयाच विराड्भव

Climbing on to this vehicle, getting rid of your adversaries, come to be the head of my family begetting children as you wish.

सम्राज्ञी श्वशुरे भव! सम्राज्ञी श्वश्रां भव!

ननांदरि सम्राज्ञी भव! सम्राज्ञी अधिदेवृषु!

You be the empress/queen ruling over the different members of the family of your in-laws.

Other mantras expressing similar sentiments can be quoted.  

[Ravi Khangai]

Thanks for the input sirs

[Nityanand Misra]

In my opinion, the translation of vaśa (वश) in MS 5.148 as control is problematic. Vācaspatyam lists two meanigns of the word vaśa (वश):

1) āyattatve (आयत्तत्वे): in the sense of dependence. The word āyatta (आयत्त) means adhīna (अधीन) or dependent, as in the usage दाराधीनस्तथा स्वर्गः (dārādhīnastathā svargaḥ)

2) prabhutve (प्रभुत्वे): In the sense of lordship or power 

Now when a word has two meanings, is it justified to take only one of them as only possible meaning and completely ignore the possibility of the other meaning? 

If the āyatta meaning is taken, then the verse would be translated as:

बाल्ये पितुर्वशे तिष्ठेत्पाणिग्राहस्य यौवने।

पुत्राणां भर्तरि प्रेते न भजेत्स्त्री स्वतन्त्रताम्॥

“In childhood she may remain dependent on her father; in youth, dependent on her husband; and when her husband is dead, dependent on her sons. She may not obtain (live with) independence.”

Is this not a more coherent meaning? There is a big difference between a widow living under control of her sons and a widow being dependent on her sons. The former interpretation (a mother being under the control of her sons) would go against numerous śruti, smṛti, and itihāsa verses on mother and the very idea of motherhood in Indian tradition. 

On Sunday, 9 October 2016 20:38:30 UTC+5:30, nagarajpaturi wrote:

Thanks, aadaraNIya Nityanandji, for the alert. Dr Ravi Khangai quoted the translation and asked whether it was wrong (translation of the verse under question). He pasted copying it from a source which did have the verse number. I should have noticed his mistake.

Now that we know of which verse the quoted translation is we should say, it is the correct translation of 5.148 f and not a translation at all of 9.3.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, 8 October 2016 23:56:14 UTC+5:30, nagarajpaturi wrote:

> Patrick Olivelle's translation given below is not right?

'“As a child she must remain under her father’s control; as a young woman, under her husband’s; and when her husband id dead, under her sons. She must never speak to live independently” (The Law Code of Manu 5.148, 149)

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

If you permit me, I would like to add that according to Manu, mother is more respectable than father, Secondly women in general are considered to be never impure. So much so that, I understand that there is an ancient  statement (but I do not have the reference with me) that woman's mouth also do not become impure and that may even mean that one can consider anything half-eaten by a woman as not become defiled (ucchishta). That shows the higher status accorded to woman in the Indian society, at one time in the past. . 

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

In which ch of Manusmriti it is mentioned that woman should remain dependent on her father during childhood, on her husband during youth and on her son during old age like ''Kaumarye raksit Pita......etc" 

             

                                       Vidvan Ravi Khangai

You must be referring to the popular but mostly misinterpreted / badly translated verse --

पिता रक्षति कौमारे भर्ता रक्षति यौवने ।

पुत्राश्च वार्धके वयसि न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यमर्हति ॥

I teach this to every batch of students .

Let us put this verse under the essential scanner , i e the trinity of पदवाक्यप्रमाणशास्त्राणि for a clear and authentic interpretation --

वाक्यशास्त्रम् ( पूर्वमीमांसा) --

In order to transform the meaning one employs either a वाक्यम् or महावाक्यम् ।

If the meaning is short it is a वाक्यम् and if it is large then it is a महावाक्यम् ।

The parts of a वाक्यम् are पदानि and that of a महावाक्यम् are अवान्तरवाक्यानि ।

The पदानि ( there can be two words also) in a वाक्यम् should conform to the three prerequisites , viz आकाङ्क्षा , योग्यता and आसत्ति and this is applicable to the अवान्तरवाक्यानि (there can be two also) in a महावाक्यम् also.

आकाङ्क्षा of a पदम् / अवान्तरवाक्यम्  should be put to rest (शान्तिः) whereas the योग्यता continues to live for ever. 

 Jaimini ( also Panini ) does not  mention either योग्यता  or आसत्ति as they are implied .

While Jaimini defines a वाक्यम् and महावाक्यम् , Panini analyses them (कारके and  विभाषा साकाङ्क्षे , न यदि ) ।

न्याय and वैशेषिक  follow the same procedure - it is परार्थानुमानजनकं न्यायमहावाक्यम् ।

In यजुर्वेद the यजूंषि ( = वाक्यानि) are seen in clusters (प्रश्लिष्टपठितानि) and it is difficult to decide as to what is the length of each यजुस् ।  Then Jaimini offered the following सूत्रम् in यजुःपरिमाणाधिकरणम् --

अर्थैकत्वात् एकं  वाक्यं साकाङ्क्षं  चेद्विभागे स्यात्  

( compare with विभाषा साकाङ्क्षे  of Panini)

Jaimini did not incorporate the word  पदम्  so that it is a definition of both a वाक्यम् and महावाक्यम् ।

If and only if (iff)  a single thing is proposed or a single meaning (तात्पर्यम् / purport / import ) is meant  - and if , when separated , the parts are found to be wanting  then that will be a वाक्यम् / महावाक्यम् ।

अर्थैकत्वम् - एकार्थबोधाकत्वम् - एकवाक्यता  are synonyms - onesentenceness (cohesion) .

Kumarila says this is applicable - मन्त्रब्राह्मणलोकेषु । He also clarifies that there is no any limit for a महावाक्यम् - वर्णशतं वर्णसहस्रं वा ।

In the present context  it is रक्षणा of a female person --

' अर्थात् प्रकरणाद्वा ’ - says Patanjali under एकः पूर्वपरयोः । The meaning is to be decided depending on अर्थ ( प्रयोजनम् / तात्पर्यम्) or प्रकरणम् /  context .

संयोगो विप्रयोगश्च ... (वाक्यकाण्डः - वाक्यपदीयम्) is an elaboration of the above महाभाष्यम्। तन्त्रयुक्तयः of चरकम् , सुश्रुतम् and अर्थशास्त्रम् are also useful.

There are four अवान्तरवाक्यानि in the verse --

पिता रक्षति कौमारे = the father takes care of the girl during कौमार (upto 15 years of age  - some people say -बाल्यम्  5yrs, कौमारम् 15yrs, यौवनम् 50yrs, वार्धक्यम् beyond 50) .

भर्ता रक्षति यौवने = the husband  protects her during youth 

पुत्राश्च वार्धके वयसि = रक्षन्तीति शेषः = the sons / daughters have to take care of their mother during old age 

न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यम् अर्हति = a female member should not be left to mend her ways / should not be left without protection .

स्वातन्त्र्यम्  -- 

स्वम् = आत्मा -- ’ स्वो ज्ञातौ आत्मनि स्वं ’ (अमरः) = self 

तन्त्रम् = प्रधानम् --  ’ तन्त्रं प्रधाने सिद्धान्ते ’ (अमरः) = important

स्वं तन्त्रं  यस्य सः स्वतन्त्रः - तस्य कर्म भावो वा स्वातन्त्र्यम्  - ’ गुणवचनब्राह्मणादिभ्यः कर्मणि च ’ (पा सू) इति ष्यञ् ।

Here स्वातन्त्र्यम् means - the state of  a girl / woman left  without care / protection .

The अर्थ (तात्पर्यम् / प्रयोजनम्) of this महावाक्यम् in the form of a श्लोक , consisting of four वाक्यानि , is  - providing care / protection to a female member right from birth to death .

Sixth अध्याय of पूर्वमीमांसा  clearly establishes - दम्पत्योः सहाधिकारः - so neither is superior / inferior to the the other and both are equal in terms of धर्म / अर्थ / काम ।

In  शास्त्रदीपिका , Parthasarathimisra compares this concept of दाम्पत्यम् with अग्नीषोमीययाग , wherein both अग्नियाग and सोमयाग are सापेक्ष - either cannot be there without the other.

यत्र नार्यस्तु पूज्यन्ते रमन्ते तत्र देवताः , न मातुः परदैवतम् - etc. will get बाध (पूर्वमीमांसा) if you interpret स्वातन्त्र्यम् differently .

न गृहं गृहमित्याहुः गृहिणी ग्रुहमुच्यते ( महाभारतम् - शान्ति 44-66)

मातृहत्यायाम् सौत्रामणियागेन प्रायश्चित्तम् - शङ्खलिखितस्मृतिः ।

धर्मे चार्थे च कामे च नातिचरितव्या पाणिग्रहणात्तु सहत्वं कर्मसु तथा पुण्यफलेषु  द्रव्यपरिग्रहेषु च -- आपस्तंबः ।

रक्षति = रक्षेत्  - just like द्वन्द्वं न्यञ्चि पात्राणि प्रयुनक्ति  (  = प्रयुञ्जीत)।

बाल्ये पितुर्वशे तिष्ठेत् etc is an अनुवाद of this verse. वश is not वशीकरणम् of योगानुशासनम् ।

Feel free.

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Today , भृगु , the author of मनुस्मृति , stands vindicated - the निर्भय Act . Even a small girl in not spared  nor an old woman .

The situation would certainly deteriorate - nobody can stop them thru  स्मृतिs and Acts - it is an utopian idea.

There is another स्मृति prescription - never send a girl / lady alone anywhere - someone - father / husband / son etc should accompany her .

शकुन्तला  was provided maximum security by कण्वमहर्षि while sending her to in-law's house.

’ ऋषयः प्रत्यक्षीकृतधर्माणः ’ - had visualized the social and other changes that are going to come thru दिव्यदृष्टि ( clairvoyance) and prescribed certain norms long ago. 

धन्यो’स्मि

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Thank you Prof. Koradaji, for saying this loudly, though everybody knows about the need for escorting ladies but afraid of saying it loudly, lest it is interpreted as male chauvinism. There is a saying in some language that deer's enemy is its own flesh, so also for going  out in lonely places and at odd times.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Sorry, inadvetently some portion of the text got omitted. The full message is as follows:

Thank you Prof. Koradaji, for saying this loudly, though everybody knows about the need for escorting ladies but afraid of saying it loudly, lest it is interpreted as male chauvinism. There is a saying in some language that deer's enemy is its own flesh, so also the beauty and the charm of the ladies make it necessary for them to have the need for escorts  for going  out, particularly  in lonely places and at odd times.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks aadaraNIya Nityanandji, for pointing this flaw in Prof. Olivelle's translation.

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[Bijoy Misra]

Dear friends,

As some of you might be aware that the latest social debate in the US centers on

the respecting women and their dignity.  My personal view has been that a discovery 

that a woman could be the creator of the universe is the most important speculation

from the Indian theorists.  it probably continued with the material aspect of life

where no metaphysics was invoked.  I am still searching when the concept of 

unpredictability in the form of chance and luck entered the thought process.  I do see

evidence in the Vedas.  The latter concept is imagined to be more powerful and 

assumes a masculine form, eventually termed as "God."

Kaushalya in Valmiki, chastises Rama declaring the divinity of the mother and the

institution of mother.  Eventually she reconciles and blesses him.  This characterization

that a mother always feels protective of her children becomes a fundamental attribute

of motherhood as I see.  

Let us celebrate Mother on this day of Vijayadasami.  

BM

for   

[Ravi Khangai]

Thnks Sri Korada Sir

[Vishal Agarwal]

After reading Patrick's Olivelle's translations on Dharmasutras, Manu and the Upanishads, I have reached a firm conclusion that they present the basest and vilest possible interpretations in many cases (some other Indologists like Stephanie Jamison are worse). In the case of the Upanishads, he often surreptitiously incorporates 'emendations' proposed by earlier racist Indologists and these often change the meaning of the traditionally handed down text. This is a very sad situation because many Indologists have come to regard his works as the 'latest', 'scholarly' expositions representing the 'best scholarship.' At best, we can consult his works to look at secondary literature on the root texts, but the translations and the introductions are really Eurocentric and Hinduphobic.

Vishal

Thnks Sri Korada Sir

--

"My heart is so full of love for God, that there is no space left for the hatred of Satan"- Rabia, 8th century Sufi.

-Dr. Ravi Khangai, Assistant Professor, P.G.T.D. History, RTM Nagpur University, Nagpur, Maharashtra, India-440033

Adjunct Faculty

Hindu University of America

5200 Vineland Road, Suite 120, Orlando, FL 32811, USA.

Mo- 918446000912, 919665575896

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

Who is पिता ? -- पाति = रक्षति इति पिता -- पा रक्षणे , ’ नप्तृनेष्टृ...’ (उणादि 2-95) इति साधुः ।

Who is पति ? -- पाति = रक्षति इति पतिः -- पा रक्षणे , ’ पातेर्डतिः ’ ( उणादि 4-57)

Who is पुत्र ? -- पुन्नामनरकात् त्रायते इति पुत्रः (मनु 9-138) - पूञ्  पवने (क्र्यादिः), 

’ पुवो ह्रस्वश्च ’ (उणादि 4-165) इति क्त्रः ।

She should be encouraged in both earning and spending  (मनु) --

अर्थस्य संग्रहे चैनां व्यये चैव नियोजयेत् । शौचे धर्मे ...

’ Pocket money ' - is an imported म्लेच्छसंप्रदाय  exercised by people without पापभीति । 

In highly orthodox families , such as ours , the ladies never ask - ' give me money ' - rather they take .

This is not for glory but just to remind / teach / preach  वैदिक - / आर्य - संप्रदाय ।

90% of the clashes / brawls  between wife and husband can be prevented by following  this tradition.

दांपत्यम्  is a धर्म ( untranslatable ) that is व्यासज्यवृत्ति - - उभयोरपि दंपत्योः समकालं 

व्यासज्य = अभिव्याप्य तिष्ठतीत्यर्थः , यथा काव्यत्वं शाब्दार्थव्यासज्यवृत्ति ।

The conjugal relation is such that it exists spread across both , the husband and wife , simultaneously .

कन्यादूषणदोषं परिहृत्य - says दण्डी in दशकुमारचरितम् ।

धर्मे चार्थे च कामे च नातिचरितव्या पाणिग्रहणात्तु सहत्वं कर्मसु तथा पुण्यफलेषु  द्रव्यपरिग्रहेषु च -- आपस्तंबः ।

The wife would partake of the पुण्यफलम्  (only) of her husband - but not पापफलम् also - says आपस्तम्ब ।

The fundamental question / doubt is how can one translate a स्म्रुति without the basic knowledge of  गृह्यसूत्रम्  ( कल्पः) and पूर्वमीमांसा ?

They are simply intertwined .

I am not going deep into the concept of अर्धाङ्गी ( कृष्णयजुर्वेदः) etc . nor the पाणिनिसूत्रम् - ’ पत्युर्नो यज्ञसंयोगे ’ ।

One should not split an अवान्तरवाक्यम् ( a वाक्यम् having आकाङ्क्षा with another वाक्यम्) like - न स्त्री स्वातन्त्र्यम् अर्हति  from a महावाक्यम्  and interpret --

it is a defect ( दोषः) called वाक्यभेद  - this is a universal norm ( सार्वत्रिको नियमः) and followed in all  शास्त्राणि / दर्शनानि etc --

’ संभवत्येकवाक्यत्वे वाक्यभेदस्तु नेष्यते ’  ( श्लोकवार्तिकम् , प्रत्यक्षसूत्रम्, 9)

When there is एकवाक्यता then the महावाक्यम् should not be split .

वाक्ये पदैकवाक्यता , महावाक्ये च वाक्यैकवाक्यता इति विवेकः ।

Also it is मातापितरौ , शिवपार्वती , सीतारामौ etc and not the other way round --

why ? अभ्यर्हितं पूर्वम् ( वार्तिकम्) - whichever is more पूजितम् / respected would take the first place --

since माता is superior to पिता (मनु.)  she is more respected .

तैत्तिरीयोपनिषत् -- मातृदेवो भव पितृदेवो भव ...

न गायत्र्या समं जप्यं न मातुः परदैवतम् -- मनु.

कुपुत्रो जायेत क्वचिदपि कुमाता न भवति - शंकराचार्याः ।

It would become a book . Before going to any translation just check as to whether the scholar has got the योग्यता or he is just doing in order to meet the requirement - ' publish or perish ' .

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

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[Sathya Narayanan N]

Thanks Sri. Prof Subramanya Korada for a highly knowledgeable description.

I should save it.

With so many sources of information available. Nowadays, No one gives importance to the qualification/authority.

regards,

Sathya Narayanan