venkat veeraraghavan
Shrivathsa B
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venkat veeraraghavan
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 6:41:51 PM UTC+5:30, Shrivathsa B wrote:
I think the anuloma viloma is in the sense of vikRRiti. In krama, jaTaa, ghana, anuloma is saMhitA and viloma is pada.The puNya of chanting saMhitaa alone is amplified when vikRRiti is chanted as per shiShTa paramparaa.
On 29-Jan-2018 15:17, "venkat veeraraghavan" <vvenk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Learned List members:I was told by a Swamiji in Rishikesh that the chanting of mantras as anuloma-viloma gives faster siddhi.Shri Gowtham Sarmaji was kind enough to refer me to the anulomakalpa a parisista of the atharvaveda. Are there similar rules for anuloma-viloma of vedic mantras in Rig/ Yajus/ Sama?Has anyone in the list had prior experience with reversing vedic mantras and practicing with them?Could you share your thoughts/ experience on these aspects please?Thanks,Veenkat
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Niranjan Ni
Shrivathsa B
venkat veeraraghavan
Venkatakrishna Sastry
(G-Mail)
venkat veeraraghavan
BVK Sastry
Namaste
On < न स्वरं प्रतिलोमयेत् .. Why do you think this is noncompliance?
Isnt the meaning of this rule meant to imply that the svaras do not undergo reversal
(Or
maybe svaras are not considered in reverse usage? >
My response:
1) The context for the discussion is about ‘FASTER SIDDHI’ : -
The line referred is < I was told by a Swamiji in Rishikesh that the chanting of mantras as anuloma-viloma gives faster siddhi.>
The person authority –Text invoked is < Shri Gowtham Sarmaji was kind enough to refer me to the anulomakalpa a parisista of the atharvaveda.>
Only the scholars of that tradition may be capable of addressing this issue.
2) The Connected questions raised read :
< Are there similar rules for anuloma-viloma of vedic mantras in Rig/ Yajus/ Sama?
< Has anyone in the list had prior experience with reversing vedic mantras and practicing with them? >
Technically, Traditionally and Practically : There (may be / will be ) are such practices / OR the Atharva model will be adapted appropriately in practice.
On Prior experiences : Here say matters are not going to be any more interesting like ‘ counting the teeth of a crow!’ ( kAkasya kati vaa dantaaH - pareekshaa) .
On Possibility/ Probability of Swara-Pratiloma: Check what the Physical Indriya of Speech can do and what ‘ Manas’ can do in Ateendriya range.
On Practice/ Practicing : The issue is not for public debate and public entertainment !
Summary: IF the exploration is on an advanced topic and application of ‘Veda –Prayoga – Sheeghra Siddhi’, better have a clear understanding on ‘ Vedangas, Yoga- Aagama –Tantra parts’.
When one ‘experiences’ the technicalities of ‘ Prana –Pratishthaa’ and ‘ Panchabhoota Panchopachaara Poojaa’ where individual ( Jeeva - Saadhaka interacts consciously and dynamically
with the Cosmos ( Ishwara Shareera PRakruti and Shakti) , the relative nature of ‘ Faster- Slower’ in Siddhi will be understood.
For this, the study-practice of ‘Samskrutham as Vak-Yoga: Language of Yoga/ Mantra Yoga ( PYS 4th chapter ) is needed.
This is out of the ‘ Oriental Sanskrit Studies domain –pedagogy which treats ‘Language f Veda as Classical/ historical / Local Tribal’ completely devoid of ‘ Consciousness of Speaker’.
The ‘model of ‘ itihaasa- deshiya jana- moolaa vak’ is not the proposition of ‘ Aatma-moolaa Vak’ in Veda –Mantra –Yoga Samskrutham.
Till The CRITICALITY of this PARADIGM Shift is realized for ‘ SAMSKRUTHAM FOR YOGA –SIDDHI -Practice’, enjoy the window shopping of the texts, narratives and passages of tradition as nice bedtime stories ! and have nice dreams (Swapna) !!
Peace.
Regards
BVK Sastry
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venkat veeraraghavan
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BVK Sastry
Namaste
On < But unless one starts at the level of theory, practice cannot be explored… light on the theory and the literature for now.> Related to < न स्वरं प्रतिलोमयेत् > and .. < Swamiji in Rishikesh that the chanting of mantras as anuloma-viloma gives faster siddhi >
Note: Pl. Don’t get off the track of explaining the above mantra in Vedanta Adhyaatma mode and asking for meaning of ‘SVARA’ in relation to ( AKSHARA BRAHMA) ! The frame of interpretation used here is looking at Samskrutham as VAK-YOGA / YOGA- BHASHAA / MANTRA – BRAAHMANA BHASHAA / GUHYA BHASHAA. Samskruth terms having multivalent derivations and meanings is not uncommon. MW dictionary will not help in all these deliberations.
The present models of Sanskrit learning, globally, have totally dropped out these dimensions of Studying PANINIAN SAMSKRUTHAM; almost every school seems to have preferred to have just one peeping hole of ‘ SANSKRIT = Classical language of Hinduism, a world religion, a rule cluttered mumbo-jumbo, a brahminical language in which Vedas are written; and rules of grammar provided by Panini , a language which has hybrid Buddhist version-vernacular.
In < स्वर- प्रतिलोम > the direction gets reversed. Technically it becomes starting with Samhara karma and moving against the normal mode of Creation flow. What does it mean in terms of physiological effort and movement of organs , the flow of air and movement of tongue ? When < svara-pratiloma takes place>, there is no more outbound ( Vaikhari) speech. Then what remains is ‘ Speech Inside’, which needs to be manipulated internally. The effect will be on ‘ SPEAKERS INNER BODY MIND LIFE EENRGY = Saadhakas Prana – Manas – Shareera> . The SVARA –SHAASTRA rules are meant to safeguard the ‘ WELL BEING OF THE SAADHAKA’. If the practitioner is ready to experiment and hurt themselves before hurting / helping others, go ahead and explore by all means ! It is a free world .
In the given mantra practice like < Bala TripuraSundari mantra: Aim Klim Sauh- Sauh Klim Aim. > what is seen –shown in practice is ‘ SVARA’ ( = Varna-maalaa antargata akshara samooha ) inversion. The mode of SWARA – INVERSION / REVERSAL (PRATILOMA ) OF ACCENT ( SVARA) - The technique of TRACKING BACK, ACCENTED LETTER / INVERSION OF ACCENTED LETTER does not seem to be explicitly documented in the text. Does it still exist in practicing tradition ? a million dollar question for investigation !
2. Your next question would be : Are there rules for observance and compliance for < स्वर- प्रतिलोम > ? If so , where are they? Who practices –teaches -? How will it lead to Faster Siddhi ?
Yes. There are rules of language- mysticism –Science of Consciousness and Energy in Sounds. ( akshara – beeja chaitanya shakti).
The rules to be used in APAURUSHEYA VEDA MANTRAS and VAIDIKA/ AVAIDIKA TANTRAS differ. This is foundation of ‘ Ashta vikruti Patha’- to generate special application benefits of ‘SAMHITA’ ( UNIFIED PACKAGED TEXT as MANTRA –SUKTA) . Each Patha unfolds the ‘ PADA – ANTARGATA – CHAITANYA SHAKTI’ differently. So the rules for Krama- to- Ghaa differ. When traditionalists make ashta vikruti Paatha sound like lung power exposition simulating ‘ Frog- Croak repetition’ ( as Patanjali calls it :: manDookavat raTaraTAyate) , the exercise becomes one of ‘ Scholarship and skill display of training in word gymnastics flow out’. It does not deliver the unique benefits it is supposed to deliver. Does this frame of ‘ashta- vikruti patha training’ still exist in ‘ Veda- Patha shala ‘ practicing tradition ? a million dollar question for investigation ! Does Sanskrit Universities have any platform to deliberate on this aspect ? Again a a million dollar question for investigation !
The Rule Generics of this discipline, technically called ‘SVARA –SHAASTRA’ come from Vedanga Vyakarana of Panini . There is no use jumping for a Google search to locate an obscure manuscript and ask for meanings. This part of Vak-Yoga tradition : Building Shikshaa Shaastra as foundation of Vedanga Vyakarana has gone underground in India itself for over three hundred years ! The relics of this tradition are still available in deep parts of Yoga traditions, Buddhism Meditation techniques and ASEAN mystic schools ( who have lost connection with Paninian – Vedanga tradition). The gap is filled inadequately by Colonial and oriental inputs , creating more chaos than necessary.
The Discipline Application Specific rules come from specific texts like parisista of the atharvaveda , Mantra mahodadhi, Prapancha saara , Devataa – Vishista aagamas.
The practice guidance is deeply linked with Vedanga Jyotisha and several other allied disciplines.
Given this backdrop, what would be the next action ? End of window shopping mantras for siddhi ??
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venkat veeraraghavan
BVK Sastry
Namaste
My responses indented below:
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( ) :
---------------------------------
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of venkat veeraraghavan
Sent: Thursday, 1 November, 2018 5:31 PM
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
Dear Sir,
I am genuinely confused by your answer.
When I read this response from your esteemed self, I only end up more confused than before.
This is not some fault I am trying to ascribe to yourself, but it is my own ignorance.
You write:
Technically, Traditionally and Practically : There (may be / will be ) are such practices / OR the Atharva model will be adapted appropriately in practice.
>>There may be / will be/ are => Which of the 3 is it in your personal experience? Because the follow up questions vary in each case and this thread is likely to become very complicated if I devise an "if then else" loop to cover all 3 scenarios.
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( personal experience ) : There may be – is a limitation of my awareness of texts and practice ; This calls for Search.
There will be – is a firm opinion, as without such process, the mantra process steps can not be advanced. Details: Explore: Abhinava Guptas works on Tantra.
There are – is a pointer to what comes as a part of my own tradition of practice. This is limits within my practice tradition, which may or may not be extendable .
---------------------------------
When < svara-pratiloma takes place>, there is no more outbound ( Vaikhari) speech.
--> Doesn't the AV parisishta indicate that svara is not reversed, is there an alternative verse somewhere that gives the rules for this reversal of svara? If so kindly give references pls.
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( alternate verse Reference ) : Everything in Practice does not carry a reference from a text. The guidance is custom provided by Masters as ‘ Upadesha’. This is beyond ‘Academic scholarship and quotes from text.
---------------------------------
Also, even in the anuloma chanting of rks, vaikhari is frequently transcended to madhyama and sometimes pashyanti vAk while doing japa. For ex: Gayatri japa is frequently done as upamsu or manasik and here the speech involution takes place with time and diligence of the sadhaka.
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( Vak-Transcendence ) : The ‘ feeling of Mantra loosing in Japa, Feeling of a pervasiveness, Abstract state without any thought and meaning ripples (Shabda Vrutti) - can not be equated or considered as ‘Vak-Transcendence. ( Ateendriyataa, Vaachaam- agocharataa- Vak- Darshana). There are specific check modes to test whether Japa has gone to a stage of ‘Pratyaahara, Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi, Samyama, Viniyoga’ – technicalities of ‘ Vak. The Tantra terminology and Yoga terminology have close run, but also carry unique flavors.
Upaamshu japa is ‘Sookshma’ but not ‘ attednriya’. ‘ Maanasika’ is NOT speech involution or reversal ! It is observing the mantra in a ‘ pre-articulation stage’.
---------------------------------
This is not a case of window shopping, but trying to make sense of jumbled information and lack of help from within traditions that are built towards adhyayana as opposed to yoga/tapascharya.
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( Taste of Sugar and naming the Taste as Sweet ) : If passages from different texts and traditions are inadvertently mixed, the outcome is ‘ jumble information’. OR in popular terms ‘ Saambaar where one can not identify the individual veggies’ . Americans call it as Soup and Salad models. Tradition calls it as ‘ Paanaka –Rasa nyaaya’.
One needs to get on practice rather than explore the road map paper in these scenarios and then recheck the document with the help of teacher. This is where Yoga of Samskrutham comes in.
---------------------------------
I can understand vaguely your comment about the yoga aspects having been separated from the bhasha. Do you have any practical pointers towards redressing this imbalance?
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( Vak-Yoga Practical pointers ) : What is Yajurveda : Agnir me Vaachi Shritah…… Vak- hrudaye, Hrudayam mayi, aham amruthe, amrutham Brahmanai/ Vak Yajnena Kalpataam ( Rudra PRashna – Chame) mean ? Any one who explains the practicality of this ?
---------------------------------
I am unsure what you mean by the following:
>>If the practitioner is ready to experiment and hurt themselves before hurting / helping others, go ahead and explore by all means ! It is a free world .
I have nowhere spoken about experimentation. Why then would I ask a question in the open forum?
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( experimentation - Privacy ) : What should be in the pooja room should be in the pooja room; and what should be in the bed room should be in the bed room. The topic you have touched upon is asking details of what happens inside the ‘ Shareera’ and in the open forum. So, the only way it can be explained is go ahead and experiment. Music teacher teaches how to sing a raga. If student desires to experiment differently, teachers say –‘ go ahead and try’!
---------------------------------
I would appreciate it greatly if you can give some references from any of the texts you have quoted regarding such applications.
^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( Texts ref ) : Yajurveda –Rudra Prashna above for further exploration; abhinava Gupta on Tantra.
---------------------------------
Rajkumari Trikha
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BVK Sastry
Namaste Rajkumari Trika
Here is the grey area in your response post.
a) The entirety of ‘Tantra Shaastra’ is based on ‘Yoga’ of ‘ Aksharas used as Mantra-Yoga’ at the level of ‘ SAMYAMA’, a state where ‘ Dharnaa- Dhyana –Samaadhi’ are unified and focused. ( Traym ekatra samyamaH). The ‘ Akshara’ foundations of ‘Tantra’ come from ‘ Veda-Aksharas’ also known as ‘ Samskrutha Varna- Maalaa ( expanded from Maheswara Sutras) . The general rules comes from Vedaanga Shikshaa ; The special rules from Pratishaakhya; The Tantra application rules from ‘ Tantra technical works’. This is expanded totality of ‘Yoga-Samskrutham’ foundation of ‘ Akshara – Brahma’./ ‘Brahma-Akshara’.
b) Mahamurtyunjaya Mantra is a veda mantra, used in yajna and Tantra differently. This Mantra comes with a ‘Svara’ ( accented letter sequence). Abhinavaguptas extensive technical writing on Tantras provide step by step practice instructions’ Of course, the language is terse and technical. And as usual, the ‘ academic translations and popular perceptions of ‘Tantra’ ( portrayed through visual Photoshop grandeur in movies and serials) has destroyed the soul of Abhinavaguptas teaching ! One will know of it only when one enters deeper in to this portal and begins real technical dialogues. The mesmerism of Words is not going to help the transcend the ‘web of words (Shabda – jaalam). Worldly People will take any ‘ instruction’ from ‘Guru’ as ‘ unquestionable dictum’ and attribute every result to ‘ Guru’ without understanding the law of ‘ Cause and Effect Correlations’. Karma- Phala is not an easy judgement to be simplistically attributed to a single, singular cause, as faith people would like to and love to simplify it .
c) When this < Mahamrutyunjaya mantra> was tried out in the way as indicated in the post, what were the guidelines for practice instruction ? was there just an inversion ( pratiloma/ anuloma- viloma> of <svaras> ? OR was it just < akshara – reversal> ? or More practical’s involved ?
This needs to be clarified.
Regards
BVK Sasry
Narayan Joshi
BVK Sastry
Namaste Joshi ji
On < My understanding: Sanskrit VarNamala did not come from Maheshwar Sutras. It was given in Vaajasaneeya Pratishaakhya. Kaatyaayana brought it into focus first five rows from /K/ to /m/. >.
1. ‘Samskrutha Varnamaalaa’ is an Organization for learning Samskrutha Bhashaa. When this was formulated, Who did it can be an eternal debate. Even if some historicity is resolved, it is just a satisfaction. It does not change the ground reality rules to learn and use the language.
2. ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ and ‘ Maheswara Sutras Order and arrangement of Varna-Maalaa units’. Maheswara Sutra is a special arrangement of ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ ( or Vedic / Pratishaakhya set of phonetic units). Why was there a need for special arrangement ? Paninian tradition answered it as Convenience of ‘ Samjnaa’ Notations development for making Cryptic Grammar formulae. It is well known that Pratishaakhyas use the Samskrutha Varnamaala with svaras ( accents) included for unique identification. Panini’s Maheswara Sutra convention moves the ‘Swara- tag’ to Sutras from Primary set formation.
Where do we see pointers to these thoughts ? Siamese language (Thai) has a comparable Varnamaalaa set , but has accented swaras counted as separate units. Tamil Brahmi (Dravidian) has dropped Mahaprana aksharas; introduces some special phonemes to make their alphabet set. Newari language has a similar set of alphabets where same swara with different accents is considered independent counting unit of alphabet set. Looking broadly , Samskrutha Varnamaalaa looks as old / eternal as Vedas. The Maheswara sutras are derived inspirational rearrangement for grammar purpose.
And how does this connect to Yoga- Tantra ? in the context of present thread ? The Yoga-Tantra- Aagama ways of Using ‘ Mantras with Samskruth Varnamaala’ sounds/ phonemes’ use the ‘Vak-Yoga’ technicality to practice ‘Mantra sounds’ for ‘ Siddhi’s. This is Yoga way of learning-using Samskrutham for Total Wellness / Siddhi’s listed as utility application benefits (= Mantra – Akshara Viniyoga). This is the lost tradition of ‘Vak-Yoga’ spiritual linguistics of Panini-Patanjali- Yaaska schools; and the substitution is made by ‘Social-historical- conversational linguistics’ tightly set in the Biblical model of ‘ Language classification, called ‘ Tower of Babel’.
( Note: Hunch ( even if one thinks it is Oakish derivation ! - BABEL is sounding similar to ‘ BABHLU’ – one of the Vedic names of Maheswara, found in Rudra prashna. Did Maheswara Sutra – Maha- Babhlu –Sutra ; and did this become the tower of Babel story ?? Tower of Babel = Pinnacle of BABHLU / Mountain Kailash ?? I don’t know. Could be some entertaining fancy thought also. Did not Vedas precede OT/Bible and Vedic languages degenerated had an influence on Latin/ Greek / Roman ? Why always look at only Hebrew ?? Why not Turanian, ).
Rajkumari Trikha
Rajkumari Trikha
From: Rajkumari Trikha <rajkuma...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 05:22
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
Namaste Joshi ji
On < My understanding: Sanskrit VarNamala did not come from Maheshwar Sutras. It was given in Vaajasaneeya Pratishaakhya. Kaatyaayana brought it into focus first five rows from /K/ to /m/. >.
1. ‘Samskrutha Varnamaalaa’ is an Organization for learning Samskrutha Bhashaa. When this was formulated, Who did it can be an eternal debate. Even if some historicity is resolved, it is just a satisfaction. It does not change the ground reality rules to learn and use the language.
2. ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ and ‘ Maheswara Sutras Order and arrangement of Varna-Maalaa units’. Maheswara Sutra is a special arrangement of ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ ( or Vedic / Pratishaakhya set of phonetic units). Why was there a need for special arrangement ? Paninian tradition answered it as Convenience of ‘ Samjnaa’ Notations development for making Cryptic Grammar formulae. It is well known that Pratishaakhyas use the Samskrutha Varnamaala with svaras ( accents) included for unique identification. Panini’s Maheswara Sutra convention moves the ‘Swara- tag’ to Sutras from Primary set formation.
Where do we see pointers to these thoughts ? Siamese language (Thai) has a comparable Varnamaalaa set , but has accented swaras counted as separate units. Tamil Brahmi (Dravidian) has dropped Mahaprana aksharas; introduces some special phonemes to make their alphabet set. Newari language has a similar set of alphabets where same swara with different accents is considered independent counting unit of alphabet set. Looking broadly , Samskrutha Varnamaalaa looks as old / eternal as Vedas. The Maheswara sutras are derived inspirational rearrangement for grammar purpose.
And how does this connect to Yoga- Tantra ? in the context of present thread ? The Yoga-Tantra- Aagama ways of Using ‘ Mantras with Samskruth Varnamaala’ sounds/ phonemes’ use the ‘Vak-Yoga’ technicality to practice ‘Mantra sounds’ for ‘ Siddhi’s. This is Yoga way of learning-using Samskrutham for Total Wellness / Siddhi’s listed as utility application benefits (= Mantra – Akshara Viniyoga). This is the lost tradition of ‘Vak-Yoga’ spiritual linguistics of Panini-Patanjali- Yaaska schools; and the substitution is made by ‘Social-historical- conversational linguistics’ tightly set in the Biblical model of ‘ Language classification, called ‘ Tower of Babel’.
( Note: Hunch ( even if one thinks it is Oakish derivation ! - BABEL is sounding similar to ‘ BABHLU’ – one of the Vedic names of Maheswara, found in Rudra prashna. Did Maheswara Sutra – Maha- Babhlu –Sutra ; and did this become the tower of Babel story ?? Tower of Babel = Pinnacle of BABHLU / Mountain Kailash ?? I don’t know. Could be some entertaining fancy thought also. Did not Vedas precede OT/Bible and Vedic languages degenerated had an influence on Latin/ Greek / Roman ? Why always look at only Hebrew ?? Why not Turanian, ).
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Narayan Joshi
Sent: Sunday, 4 November, 2018 1:44 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
Nov 11, 2018
Dear BVK, I read your reply to Rajkumari Trikha. You wrote,"The ‘ Akshara’ foundations of ‘Tantra’ come from ‘ Veda-Aksharas’ also known as ‘ Samskrutha Varna- Maalaa ( expanded from Maheswara Sutras).
My understanding: Sanskrit VarNamala did not come from Maheshwar Sutras. It was given in Vaajasaneeya Pratishaakhya. Kaatyaayana brought it into focus first five rows from /K/ to /m/. Thanks N.R.joshi
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:03 AM BVK Sastry <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Rajkumari Trika
Here is the grey area in your response post.
a) The entirety of ‘Tantra Shaastra’ is based on ‘Yoga’ of ‘ Aksharas used as Mantra-Yoga’ at the level of ‘ SAMYAMA’, a state where ‘ Dharnaa- Dhyana –Samaadhi’ are unified and focused. ( Traym ekatra samyamaH). The ‘ Akshara’ foundations of ‘Tantra’ come from ‘ Veda-Aksharas’ also known as ‘ Samskrutha Varna- Maalaa ( expanded from Maheswara Sutras) . The general rules comes from Vedaanga Shikshaa ; The special rules from Pratishaakhya; The Tantra application rules from ‘ Tantra technical works’. This is expanded totality of ‘Yoga-Samskrutham’ foundation of ‘ Akshara – Brahma’./ ‘Brahma-Akshara’.
b) Mahamurtyunjaya Mantra is a veda mantra, used in yajna and Tantra differently. This Mantra comes with a ‘Svara’ ( accented letter sequence). Abhinavaguptas extensive technical writing on Tantras provide step by step practice instructions’ Of course, the language is terse and technical. And as usual, the ‘ academic translations and popular perceptions of ‘Tantra’ ( portrayed through visual Photoshop grandeur in movies and serials) has destroyed the soul of Abhinavaguptas teaching ! One will know of it only when one enters deeper in to this portal and begins real technical dialogues. The mesmerism of Words is not going to help the transcend the ‘web of words (Shabda – jaalam). Worldly People will take any ‘ instruction’ from ‘Guru’ as ‘ unquestionable dictum’ and attribute every result to ‘ Guru’ without understanding the law of ‘ Cause and Effect Correlations’. Karma- Phala is not an easy judgement to be simplistically attributed to a single, singular cause, as faith people would like to and love to simplify it .
c) When this < Mahamrutyunjaya mantra> was tried out in the way as indicated in the post, what were the guidelines for practice instruction ? was there just an inversion ( pratiloma/ anuloma- viloma> of <svaras> ? OR was it just < akshara – reversal> ? or More practical’s involved ?
This needs to be clarified.
Regards
BVK Sasry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rajkumari Trikha
Sent: Thursday, 1 November, 2018 10:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
K S Kannan
Rajkumari Trikha
Rajkumari Trikha
Sorry Dr Kanan ji, it is typing error. It is मामृतात्
Sorry Dr Kanan ji, it is typing error. It is मामृतात्.
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 05:52 K S Kannan, <ks.kann...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it mAmamRtAt?
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 5:26 AM Rajkumari Trikha <rajkuma...@gmail.com> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Rajkumari Trikha <rajkuma...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 05:22
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
Dear scholars,Happy Diwali to list members. My post was shown as queued in my mail box. Only today I found that it is delivered, and there has been discussion upon it too.I am writing in response to Dr BVK Shastry. The query was about reversal of vowels in samput of a mantra.As I have learnt from tradition, the vowels are not repeated except ऊँ, only consonants are repeated.I personally tried mahamrityunjay mantra in Sir Gangaram hospital, delhi, on floor of its children's ward, sitting on a blanket in 1988 when my daughter was v v critical. I didn't observe any hard and fast rule. But I did japa with full concentration and faith. By God's grace she survived, and regained health after a very long surgery in 1989.The mantra was taught by my late revered father as followsऊँ हों जूं सः। ऊँ भूर्भवः स्वःऊँ त्र्यम्बकं यजामहे सुगन्धिं पुष्टिवर्धनम्। ऊर्वारुकमिव बन्धनान्मृत्योर्मुक्षीय माममृतात्।स्वः भुवः भूः ऊँ। सः जूं हों ऊँ।This is my personal experience, which as a rule should not have been disclosed. I have violated the rule, as I know अभिरूपभूयिष्ठा परिषदियम् .Rajkumari Trikha
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 12:56 BVK Sastry, <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Joshi ji
On < My understanding: Sanskrit VarNamala did not come from Maheshwar Sutras. It was given in Vaajasaneeya Pratishaakhya. Kaatyaayana brought it into focus first five rows from /K/ to /m/. >.
1. ‘Samskrutha Varnamaalaa’ is an Organization for learning Samskrutha Bhashaa. When this was formulated, Who did it can be an eternal debate. Even if some historicity is resolved, it is just a satisfaction. It does not change the ground reality rules to learn and use the language.
2. ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ and ‘ Maheswara Sutras Order and arrangement of Varna-Maalaa units’. Maheswara Sutra is a special arrangement of ‘Samskrutha Varna-Maalaa’ ( or Vedic / Pratishaakhya set of phonetic units). Why was there a need for special arrangement ? Paninian tradition answered it as Convenience of ‘ Samjnaa’ Notations development for making Cryptic Grammar formulae. It is well known that Pratishaakhyas use the Samskrutha Varnamaala with svaras ( accents) included for unique identification. Panini’s Maheswara Sutra convention moves the ‘Swara- tag’ to Sutras from Primary set formation.
Where do we see pointers to these thoughts ? Siamese language (Thai) has a comparable Varnamaalaa set , but has accented swaras counted as separate units. Tamil Brahmi (Dravidian) has dropped Mahaprana aksharas; introduces some special phonemes to make their alphabet set. Newari language has a similar set of alphabets where same swara with different accents is considered independent counting unit of alphabet set. Looking broadly , Samskrutha Varnamaalaa looks as old / eternal as Vedas. The Maheswara sutras are derived inspirational rearrangement for grammar purpose.
And how does this connect to Yoga- Tantra ? in the context of present thread ? The Yoga-Tantra- Aagama ways of Using ‘ Mantras with Samskruth Varnamaala’ sounds/ phonemes’ use the ‘Vak-Yoga’ technicality to practice ‘Mantra sounds’ for ‘ Siddhi’s. This is Yoga way of learning-using Samskrutham for Total Wellness / Siddhi’s listed as utility application benefits (= Mantra – Akshara Viniyoga). This is the lost tradition of ‘Vak-Yoga’ spiritual linguistics of Panini-Patanjali- Yaaska schools; and the substitution is made by ‘Social-historical- conversational linguistics’ tightly set in the Biblical model of ‘ Language classification, called ‘ Tower of Babel’.
( Note: Hunch ( even if one thinks it is Oakish derivation ! - BABEL is sounding similar to ‘ BABHLU’ – one of the Vedic names of Maheswara, found in Rudra prashna. Did Maheswara Sutra – Maha- Babhlu –Sutra ; and did this become the tower of Babel story ?? Tower of Babel = Pinnacle of BABHLU / Mountain Kailash ?? I don’t know. Could be some entertaining fancy thought also. Did not Vedas precede OT/Bible and Vedic languages degenerated had an influence on Latin/ Greek / Roman ? Why always look at only Hebrew ?? Why not Turanian, ).
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Narayan Joshi
Sent: Sunday, 4 November, 2018 1:44 AM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras
Nov 11, 2018
Dear BVK, I read your reply to Rajkumari Trikha. You wrote,"The ‘ Akshara’ foundations of ‘Tantra’ come from ‘ Veda-Aksharas’ also known as ‘ Samskrutha Varna- Maalaa ( expanded from Maheswara Sutras).
My understanding: Sanskrit VarNamala did not come from Maheshwar Sutras. It was given in Vaajasaneeya Pratishaakhya. Kaatyaayana brought it into focus first five rows from /K/ to /m/. Thanks N.R.joshi
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:03 AM BVK Sastry <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Rajkumari Trika
Here is the grey area in your response post.
a) The entirety of ‘Tantra Shaastra’ is based on ‘Yoga’ of ‘ Aksharas used as Mantra-Yoga’ at the level of ‘ SAMYAMA’, a state where ‘ Dharnaa- Dhyana –Samaadhi’ are unified and focused. ( Traym ekatra samyamaH). The ‘ Akshara’ foundations of ‘Tantra’ come from ‘ Veda-Aksharas’ also known as ‘ Samskrutha Varna- Maalaa ( expanded from Maheswara Sutras) . The general rules comes from Vedaanga Shikshaa ; The special rules from Pratishaakhya; The Tantra application rules from ‘ Tantra technical works’. This is expanded totality of ‘Yoga-Samskrutham’ foundation of ‘ Akshara – Brahma’./ ‘Brahma-Akshara’.
b) Mahamurtyunjaya Mantra is a veda mantra, used in yajna and Tantra differently. This Mantra comes with a ‘Svara’ ( accented letter sequence). Abhinavaguptas extensive technical writing on Tantras provide step by step practice instructions’ Of course, the language is terse and technical. And as usual, the ‘ academic translations and popular perceptions of ‘Tantra’ ( portrayed through visual Photoshop grandeur in movies and serials) has destroyed the soul of Abhinavaguptas teaching ! One will know of it only when one enters deeper in to this portal and begins real technical dialogues. The mesmerism of Words is not going to help the transcend the ‘web of words (Shabda – jaalam). Worldly People will take any ‘ instruction’ from ‘Guru’ as ‘ unquestionable dictum’ and attribute every result to ‘ Guru’ without understanding the law of ‘ Cause and Effect Correlations’. Karma- Phala is not an easy judgement to be simplistically attributed to a single, singular cause, as faith people would like to and love to simplify it .
c) When this < Mahamrutyunjaya mantra> was tried out in the way as indicated in the post, what were the guidelines for practice instruction ? was there just an inversion ( pratiloma/ anuloma- viloma> of <svaras> ? OR was it just < akshara – reversal> ? or More practical’s involved ?
This needs to be clarified.
Regards
BVK Sasry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rajkumari Trikha
Sent: Thursday, 1 November, 2018 10:24 PM
To: bvpar...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Anuloma-Viloma of Vedic Mantras