My video "Valmiki's Pushpaka Vimana | What did it look like?"

[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste 

I humbly present to you my recent video "Valmiki's Pushpaka Vimana | What did it look like?" where I have interpreted the description of Pushpaka Vimana as found in the Valmiki Ramayana. The verses which I have used, are mentioned in the description section of the video.

Link : https://youtu.be/PdBH8o81xDk

Regards

Satyan

[shankara]

Namaste,

Watched the video on Pushpakavimana.

Nicely presented and informative.

regards
shankara

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[Satyan Sharma]

Dhanyavaad Shankara ji

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Satyan Sharma

Research Scholar

Department of Sanskrit

Panjab University, Chandigarh, India.

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[P V S Kumar]

Dear Satyan,

Nice attempt. But in its current state, this video is representing only a confused state of mind.

More work needs to be done to make it appealing. If you can share the script of the video, I shall give you more detailed observations. 

Regards

P V S Kumar

[Aravinda Rao]

Sri Satyan Sharma ji,

Very good video. 

Your presentation is very truthful to Valmiki's text. Valmiki uses the word vimana to describe multistorey buildings also. In some portions of Sundara Kanda it is difficult to say whether he is referring to the flying instrument or to the building of Ravana. 

You could have referred to the Bharadwja Vaimanik Shastra which also talks of pyramidal shapes.

Aravinda Rao 

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[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste P V S Kumar ji. Yes, I agree, there is a lot of more work to be done on this. It'd be a pleasure to share the script with you. Here is it:

Vimanas or ancient Indian flying machines, are usually thought of only as mythical objects, because we usually think that our ancestors did not have the required technical knowledge to build any such machines for real.

All we find is mentions of Vimanas, how mighty and enormous they were. And also, we have TV serials depicting them. Recently, Ramanand Sagar's Ramayan has been retelecast on Doordarshan.

(show the poster of Ramayan in the background).

This video began with a scene from the same, which shows the Pushpaka Vimana. But does that match with the description of the vimana given by Valmiki in his Ramayana? (show a still of the said Ramayana's pushpaka vimana)

Before I answer that, let me tell you something about the word 'Vimana'. Those who study ancient Indian architecture are familiar with the word 'vimana' as being the long pyramidical and/or conical portion of a traditional Indian temple. (show image of a traditional temple).

So what is the connection between the flying Vimana and the stationary Vimana? An 11th century text on architecture called 'samaranganasutradhara' attributed to king bhoja, tells a brief story where Lord Brahma created Vimanas which were Viyadvartmavicarin or ' those which moved in the path of the sky'. Pushpaka was one of them. After a while, stationary structures imitating them were made for the decoration of cities or nagaras. These structures are called Prasadas. The present tradition is that they are called Prasadas in the north India and Vimanas in the south. (show multiple temples).

So if we take the said textual mention to be true, we can guess the average shape of those flying Vimanas by looking at the stationary ones.In that case, the depiction of Pushpaka Vimana in Ramanand Sagar's ramayana, is not correct. (show image comparing  Ramanand's Pushpak and the stationary Vimana.)

Now let's move to the Valmiki Ramayana.  (show a manuscript of Valmiki Ramayana). 

Although there are many details about the pushpaka vimana found the Valmiki Ramayana, yet I will only discuss the very basic ones.

As far as the shape of the Vimana is concerned, Valmiki keeps calling it as 'resembling the summit of mount meru', 'resembling a mountain', and also he compares its shape with that of a cloud.

(put a combined picture of a mountain and a cloud in the background)

The mention of the pushpaka vimana's shape being similar to that of a mountain somehow agrees with the stationary Vimanas of ancient Indian temples. Why? Because both are pyramidical and/or conical structures. (again show some temple vimana).

Hence, once again, the depiction of the Vimana in the Television ramayana violates that of Valmiki. (show the Ramananda's Vimana and turn the frames colour to red to show it is wrong).

Regarding the colour  of the Pushpaka Vimana, it seems that the similes like Rajataprabham, Candrasannibham and Suryasannibham, and Meghasankasham, suggest that the colour of the Vimana was somewhat light, and probably whitish.

About its sound, we find the word 'mahanada' in a variant reading of a verse, which suggests that it produced a very loud sound. Even a modern day Vimana or aircraft produces very loud sounds. (play a loud aircraft sound in the background and show the verse).

Valmiki mentions the Vimana having windows of Vatayanas, which clearly implies that it was a closed object and not an open one as shown in Ramanand Sagar's ramayan or even in some others. (show the windows of an aircraft and then show the Ramanand's Vimana and turn its colour to red again).

Valmiki also mentions the Vimana having a Hamsa or swan. Yet Valmiki does not credit the swan for the flight, because he does not say that Swan is making the Vimana fly in the sky or that the Swan is flying and Vimana is attached to it. Two commentators of Valmiki's Ramayana, Govindaraja and Rama, interpret Valmiki's expression 'hamsayukta' as 'hamsapratimayukta', suggesting that swan which Valmiki mentions, is not a real swan, but a structure which has the shape of a swan. (again show manuscript of Ramayana).

Many paintings and depictions of the Pushpaka Vimana join one or more swans at the front of the Pushpaka Vimana. My own interpretation of it is like that of a modular aircraft which has two main components, i.e., the flying components and the detachable pods. The flying components are the airframe, cockpit and engines, while the detachable pods which are like cabin etc., which carry the passengers and the load. (first show pictures of other interpretations. Then switch to showing the modular aircraft).

The airframe and the cockpit as one component, does have a swan-like or a bird-like shape, as can be seen in this clip and the detachable pod does resemble a conical structure. In this sense, Valmiki's Pushpaka Vimana might have been a modular aircraft, where the multiple detachable pods may have looked like major and minor peaks of a mountain, and the flying components as one unit, may have been interpreted as being a swan or swan's statue. (show stills of the upper part of the modular aircraft and compare it with the upper part of a swan flying., and compare a clipart of multiple peaks with that of the detachable pods.)

Hence, it seems that the Pushpaka Vimana described in the Valmiki Ramayana, might have been a modular aircraft. At the least we can be sure that it wasn't any way like the Pushpaka Vimana usually shown in paintings, and many television serials based on Ramayana, even the one created by Ramanand Sagar's ramayana. (talk directly into the camera and show your fucking face). 

If there were no real Vimanas in the time of Valmiki, why did Valmiki not simply imagine a huge bird as a vimana? Why does he describe its shape like that of a mountain? Mountains don't fly, birds do. Also, as has been mentioned, he mentions a swan being attached to the Vimana, and yet does not give the credit of the flight to the swan, leading to the interpretation of the swan being just a structure having the shape of a swan.

Either Valmiki was a genius, that he imagined a non-bird shaped, mountain shaped, and a machine like structure as a Vimana, which looks like a modern day modular aircraft, or he might have known directly or indirectly. 

Whatever be the case, now that you have some idea of how Valmiki himself described the Pushpaka Vimana, you could check if the depictions of Pushpaka Vimana being presented to you are in accordance with Valmiki or not.

Regards

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[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste Aravinda Ji

Thanks for appreciating. The reason I did not refer to Vaimaanika Shaastra is that whatever literature I read regarding it, cast doubts over its antiquity. As I remember, Indian Institute of Science and Technology did some research and found only one vimaana capable of lift. It's antiquity is also debated. But I somewhere read that there is some manuscript with some related title, which is older than 19th century kept in some manuscript library. If you could give me some more information about the text, kindly do.

Regards

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[Satyan Sharma]

Dear P V S Kumar ji,

The got the script edited from someone who unfortunately used some wrong words somewhere in the script. I beg pardon.

Regards

[Bijoy Misra]

Here is an article i wrote three years ago on Pushpaka in my analysis of Valmiki Ramayana.

https://vidyapeeth.dwarkamai.com/index.php/articles/135-reflections-on-valmiki-ramyana-xx-the-puspaka-air-vehicle

A full translation is in preparation.

For my friends in the list:  I am back in the US, reached Thursday night on a US Govt chartered flight.

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[Satyan Sharma]

Dear P V S Kumar ji,

The got the script edited from someone who unfortunately used some wrong words somewhere in the script. I beg pardon.

Regards

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 1:02 PM P V S Kumar <polis...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Glad to know prof. misra that you are back home.

please stay safe.

regards,

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Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

There is an old related post :

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/JcknwHnxYS8/5LD48LziAAAJ

https://oursanskrit.com/2014/08/18/the-pushpaka-vimaana-is-there-truth-behind-the-mythology/

[P V S Kumar]

Thank you dear Satyan. I shall get back to you in couple of days time.

[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste Bijoy ji

Thank you for sharing your article. Could you please share the verses on which the article is based?

Regards

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[Bijoy Misra]

It is the beginning chapters of Sundarakanda after Hanuman enters Lanka.

Please review them, you would enjoy.  Don't be selective.

There is also reference to Sita's abduction at the end of Ayodhyakanda with Jatayu's obstruction.

Then go the end of Lankakanda.

It is a reconstruction.

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[Jay Nityananda Das]

Respected Satyan ji and others,

Namo Namah. Hare Krishna.

While it’s not just laudable but also an good intended and an honorable attempt to ponder over the possibilities of “Vimana” of Valmiki-Ramayana, however, in my humble opinion, rationality in this regard should not be restricted to only what we can perceive today.

There are mentions of supernatural powers of mantras throught out Vedic literatures, which are more than mere mechanical apparatuses i.e. Sage Tvasta invoked Vrtrasura through the power of mantras, Draupadi and Dhrishtdumna appeared from the fire sacrifice, Astras were personified weapons who can be invoked by mantras along with the eligibility (not in mechanical terms) and so on.

My humble submission to all who are interested in this thread is to be ready to embrass the fact that we seriously lack adequate access to myriad ancient technologies of the Vedic era, many of them are enigmatic to a common man and and thus, we might not be able to comprehend every minute details of those technologies that sound irrational to the modern Minds.

Are we of the opinions that because we, 21^st century humans, cannot visualize how great sages such as Narada could fly in space without any mechanical machine, so this must be a mythological story or at the least (if we don’t want to offend our Rishis), a wrong interpretation of the sacred texts!

How many of us have had visualized that one day people at thousands of miles distance could have conversations with us on mobile, internate etc.?  Perhaps we can go still further and think of establishing Telepathic connections among human beings!

It’s a submission, not an accusation or order, and I hope, broad-minded people on this forum will take the essence of it.

Wish you all best luck in exploring the truth,

das,

Jaya Nityananda Dasa 

("Nandagrama" Varnasrama Community Project)

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[Bijoy Misra]

I am sharing another article, this time on the civil engineering and town planning in Lanka.

https://vidyapeeth.dwarkamai.com/index.php/articles/134-reflections-on-valmiki-ramayana-xix-the-kingdom-of-lanka

This is Valmiki's construction as witnessed by Hanuman.

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[P V S Kumar]

Dear Satyan,

You may find this link useful ...

https://www.booksfact.com/technology/ancient-technology/different-vimanas-ramayana.html

[Bijoy Misra]

One of the effects of western Indology on India has been the research through the dictionary.

The technique first picks up a word and assumes its meaning through a "reputed" dictionary.

The follow up research becomes assumption.  The technical analysis to determine the contextual

meaning of the word through its use and application is not a part of the effort.  There are strange

translated texts passing as "academic" contributions.  The disease has now gone to create

linear translations of Indian poetry.  Hobby scholars in India find the technique convenient

to cause noise in their social settings and then get picked up by English language word search.

Hope new India would recover from this mime.  The gentleman in the quoted article has tried to

to create Devanagari reversed from some English transliteration.  There are enthusiastic

entrepreneurs..

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

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[Roland Steiner]

> The technical analysis to
> determine the contextual
> meaning of the word through its use and application is not a part of the
> effort.

Not only is this not true, but it is also downright grotesque. Such a
claim can only be made by someone who does not have or does not want
to have the slightest idea of the actual methods of Indological
research. The idea that scholars (whether Indian or non-Indian) would
rely exclusively or even mainly and uncritically on arbitrary
information in some dictionaries is so far away from reality that I
shall not discuss it further. Such an assertion is either ignorant
and/or malicious. Everyone who knows the indispensable benefits and
also the inherent limitations of kośas in general und of specific
dictionaries and glossaries in particular would have to agree with me
here. Does anyone seriously believe that Indological scholars (Indian
or non-Indian) are that stupid and naive?

A comparatively unqualified judgment about, for instance, the methods
of quantum physics by someone who is not a trained physicist
himself/herself would never be allowed to pass. Not so in the case of
Indology. Apparently, it is not required to be a trained Indologist,
one does not even have to have sound knowledge of Sanskrit to be able
to criticize Indological research competently.

No one who does not fit this description should feel attacked.

With best regards,
Roland Steiner

[Bijoy Misra]

Roland,

Some scholar did try to teach me Odia with a dictionary in hand.

it would be much better if people get engaged in work that they

understand well through their nativity.  It is one thing to learn

a language, it is entirely another to "assert" uncultivated opinions.

Keep well.  Yes, koshas exist for people who can "read" them.

Using koshas in native language is better!  One knows more.

Best regards,

BM

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[P V S Kumar]

Dear Satyan,

As promised by me earlier, here I am attaching my observations in a lengthy and detailed 15-page PDF file.

There could be some merits and more mistakes due to my ignorance. Just take what you like and ignore the rest. If you feel like giving some reverse feedback you are most welcome.

All the best for your future work.

Regards

P.V.S. Kumar

[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste P V S Kumar ji

Thank you for the detailed input. I’ll read it thoroughly and discuss with you. 

Regards

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[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste P V S Kumar Ji

Here is my feedback on your input.

Regards

[P V S Kumar]

Dear Satyan,

Here I am giving you an addendum -  a little bit of elaboration on some of the points just touched upon left in my PDF document:

Hope these points will give you some direction to you to think in multiple aspect to understand Pushpaka Vimana's structure even better.

 

Hanuman as a high-flying highspeed self-propelled long-haul aircraft with great grand payload capacity

 

गत्वा परममध्वानमुपर्युपरि सागरम् |
हिमवन्तं नगश्रेष्ठं हनूमन्गन्तुमर्हसि || 6-74-29

… Valmiki Ramayana 6-7-30, 34, 38 – 41, 50, 52, 54 …

स तं समुत्पाट्य खमुत्पपात | वित्रास्य लोकान्ससुरान्सुरेन्द्रान् |
संस्तूयमानः खचरैरनेकैर् | जगाम वेगाद्गरुडोग्रवीर्यः || 6-74-68

Observe that there were NO swans around Hanuman, the flying machine. While describing the flight of Pushpaka Vimana, which was NOT flying at that much fierce thrust and speed as Hanuman, there was a mention of swans alongside.

There was no mention of a trailer or add-on module being attached to carry the Mount Sanjeevani in his return journey from Himalayas to the South of India. So, Hanuman is not a modular aircraft!

 

If we consider Pushpaka Vimana as a ‘modular’ plane, we need to find the answer for “from where did Sri Rama (or whoever was managing it) got the additional add-on cabins to onboard vanaras’ families at Kinshkinda on the way back?”

If we have to assume spare empty cabins were also brought along from Lanka, we can as well consider Pushpaka a single large unit (a suuuuper extra sized jumbo jet kind of airplane). Then the question of why would Ravana use it at the time of abducting Sita, just for carrying 4 or 5 persons (including couple of onboard service crew). Using such a large vehicle just for 4 or 5 people is definitely not fuel/energy efficient!

Also, if we have to assume that Pushapaka was a single large unit, it would be much difficult to attach a such large vehicle for a bird called Jatayu.

From this we can construe that Pushpaka was a vehicle which can expand and contract as per the requirement.   

 

Hanuman, one of the very important characters of Valmiki Ramayana, has the competence to change his size from normal to extra small to extra-large as and when needed. If Valmiki could give this ability to one of his monkey shaped characters, he can as well give the same capability for an object like Pushpaka Vimana also in the same story, if his narration demands so. There is no wonder!

 

When Pushpaka is taken as masculine (पुष्पकः), it stands for ‘name of a particular mountain’. Thus, to correctly identify the etymology of ‘Pushpaka Vimana’, we need to search puranas and elsewhere to find out the story behind that particular mountain called पुष्पकः | As part of this we need to know whether Vishwakarma, the builder of Pushpaka Vimana, had embedded that mountain in Pushpaka Vimana or just named his creation after that mountain; what are the special features/powers of पुष्पकः | By ascertaining these features we can understand Pushpaka Vimana better. We also need to check whether there are any other products with similar features from the same maker.

Good luck.

Regards

P V S Kumar

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 1:47:08 PM UTC+5:30, Satyan Sharma wrote:

Namaste P V S Kumar Ji

Here is my feedback on your input.

Regards

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Satyan Sharma

Research Scholar

Department of Sanskrit

Panjab University, Chandigarh, India.

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[Bijoy Misra]

Again such selective quotes are not fair to the book nor to the author.

So is my humble opinion.

BM

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[Satyan Sharma]

Thank you P V S Kumar Ji.

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[Satyan Sharma]

Namaste Bijoy Misra ji

Yes Sir. Your points are valid. In one of your replies you also pointed out the problem with referring dictionaries. I recently encountered such a problem, where the usage of the word in the actual concerned texts was a bit different from those shown in the dictionary entries. And hence, to determine the vivakṣā of the writer, especially a poet, one needs to do a detailed study of the text itself, while not restricting oneself to only certain verses.

Thank you for your input.

Regards

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[Bijoy Misra]

It has happened because of the late "commentators" throwing things as miracles.

Things take a different angle once you take the poet's imaginative view.

In Sugriva's order, monkeys "flew" from all over the world.

The monkeys can be imagined to have their "tree" trails, where they can jump in lightening speed.

Hanuman's galloping on the shore is another example.

The skill is what distance one can jump, not "fly".

I am glad that you appreciate.  It is easy if you see the poet's view.   

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[P V S Kumar]

An illustration of Pushpaka Vimana (see attached picture).

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Why is the logo of a school on that picture?

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